[kick52]

im in the UK, i vote tesco.

[ink]

Originally Posted by kick52

im in the UK, i vote tesco.

I heard that Tesco had an elaborate in-store video system. Have you seen such a thing, and what did you think?

[kick52]

Originally Posted by ink

I heard that Tesco had an elaborate in-store video system. Have you seen such a thing, and what did you think?

what do mean by video system?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ink

/me plays a violin.

I mean, wow. You got the "Great Satan" AND xenophobia in there Kevin. What's next? An appearance on the Hannity show to defend the moral character of Sam?

Whaa? I said nothing that was untrue.

[spacefreak]

Some additional facts for the record

Wal-Mart is the most prodigious job-creator in the history of the private sector in this galaxy, with almost as many employees (1.3 million) as the U.S. military has uniformed personnel.

A McKinsey company study concluded that Wal-Mart accounted for 13 percent of the nation's productivity gains in the second half of the 1990s, which probably made Wal-Mart about as important as the Federal Reserve in holding down inflation.

Wal-Mart costs about 50 retail jobs among competitors for every 100 jobs Wal-Mart creates.

Wal-Mart and its effects save shoppers more than $200 billion a year, dwarfing such government programs as food stamps ($28.6 billion) and the earned-income tax credit ($34.6 billion).

Recent Wal-Mart store opening in Evergreen Park, Illinois had more than 25,000 people apply for the 325 openings.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Some additional facts for the record

Wal-Mart is the most prodigious job-creator in the history of the private sector in this galaxy, with almost as many employees (1.3 million) as the U.S. military has uniformed personnel.

A McKinsey company study concluded that Wal-Mart accounted for 13 percent of the nation's productivity gains in the second half of the 1990s, which probably made Wal-Mart about as important as the Federal Reserve in holding down inflation.

Wal-Mart costs about 50 retail jobs among competitors for every 100 jobs Wal-Mart creates.

Wal-Mart and its effects save shoppers more than $200 billion a year, dwarfing such government programs as food stamps ($28.6 billion) and the earned-income tax credit ($34.6 billion).

Recent Wal-Mart store opening in Evergreen Park, Illinois had more than 25,000 people apply for the 325 openings.

It's not surprising that Wal-Mart can boast these sorts of numbers on account of its sheer size. This is not the issue here.

I have wondered though, although perhaps this is a question best suited for an economics expert, if Wal-Mart ceased to exist, wouldn't the business otherwise given to Wal-Mart simply go elsewhere, for the most part?

Also, as far as all the money shoppers have saved, what about the money lost by businesses that Wal-Mart has pushed under?

[powerbook867]

25,000 people applied? That is an absurd number for mainly retail positions....

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by powerbook867

25,000 people applied? That is an absurd number for mainly retail positions....

In some places thousands of people will apply for a few jobs cleaning port-a-johns; it's all about the local job market. Getting ANY job can be imperitive in some places.

The problem with this is that when you bring in some retail jobs as "job creation," you're just bringing in entry level jobs. Retail is almost entirely low tech and low wage with little room for advancement. A retail job is what gets you from rent payment to rent payment, but you almost never get ahead enough to advance economically. Wal-Mart isn't the only agent here; a lot of cities (let's start with San Antonio, Texas) try to recruit retail and other service-oriented employers as if that will be an economic boon. How much of an economic boon is it to bring in 300 maid positions, 50 desk clerks, and 30 wait staff? That's what a hotel brings in. "Convention Centers" bring in some maintenance people, some management, and usually a few concessionaires for food and beverage services, so these are just huge boxes of a few (still low wage) jobs. It wasn't until Toyota sought out San Antonio as a manufacturing location that actual productive (as opposed to service) jobs showed up on the City Council's radar...

To be worthwhile, an area needs a broad mix of a lot of different kinds of jobs. Ask people in the Rust Belt what industrial concentration does for your home town. That's the same sort of thing that Wal-Mart and other big-box stores muscling into an area does for retail.

[natnabour]

i went to a walmart once in canada....it was kind of like the target we have in our neighborhood. however, the walmarts here are really dirty & tend to have a dark gloomy cloud hovering above em.

plain and simple: target has GREAT marketing. from their commercials to their coupons. to their pharmacy containers. *GREAT*. plus, they get these ''have-been" designers design clothing & bedding & furniture for them.

quick q: i remember hearing from *some place* that walmart used to sell bullets? target doesn't sell bullets. (at least i don't think it does)

[NYCFarmboy]

I like both Wal-Mart and Target.

Unfortunately there are no Wal-Marts in Manhattan so everytime I'm outside the city near a Wal-Mart I always stock up on things. There is a Target out in Queens but its a hassle to get out there.

[Ozmodiar]

Originally Posted by natnabour

plus, they get these ''have-been" designers design clothing & bedding & furniture for them.

Calling Isaac Mizrahi a has-been is like calling Jonathan Ive a has-been.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by besson3c

... if Wal-Mart ceased to exist, wouldn't the business otherwise given to Wal-Mart simply go elsewhere, for the most part?

Also, as far as all the money shoppers have saved, what about the money lost by businesses that Wal-Mart has pushed under?

If it wasn't Wal-Mart, it would be some other company (like a Kmart or Target) that would be satisfying the needs of people who want to pay less for goods.

It's as if you demand that people overpay for goods. Why must everyone be forced to pay ridiculous prices from Mom and Pop... because you say so? The old Mom-and-Pop stores by me were crap. Sh-tty selection, and everything was list price or higher.

Besides, the internet would have killed these bilkers soon enough. A $24.95 book can now be had on Amazon for $9.95.

Mom-and-Pop were no less capitalists than Wal-Mart. And they provided their employees less benefits than Wal-Mart does. I worked at a few Mom-and-Pops in my teen years, and benefits were not offered to any of the employees, not even the "lifers" who worked there. And they all made crap wages.

It's time to let go of the romantic fantasy that Mom-and-Pop stores were some sort of noble cause, because they weren't. The only ones who made real money were Mom and Pop, as they bilked their customers while at the same time pretending to be their friends.

We're now in a time of "Put up or shut up". If Mom-and-Pop can't offer a decent selection at good prices, someone else will.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by besson3c

I have wondered though, although perhaps this is a question best suited for an economics expert, if Wal-Mart ceased to exist, wouldn't the business otherwise given to Wal-Mart simply go elsewhere, for the most part?

Also, as far as all the money shoppers have saved, what about the money lost by businesses that Wal-Mart has pushed under?

Hey, a question for an expert. Cool.

OK, then, answers:

Wal-Mart has made things available where they were not before. So, sure, they put some small town monopolists out of business, but there are plenty of people in the south that didn't have access to all kinds of discount goods (or decent part time jobs) before Wal-Mart. Dollar General performed another miracle of this type.

I'm sure studies have documented the net gain from lower prices and higher availablility (not to mention the uniformity) of Wal-Mart vs. small retailers. It's evidenced by the continued existence of Wal-Mart. Plenty of other stores have come and gone and faced (almost) the same type of flaming criticism. Sam's and Wal-Mart is still cranking.

Consider, too, how easy Wal-Mart has made it for other stores to define themselves -- Target and JC Penney being examples. They stepped into the gap left when "Joe's Mens Store" went out of business in Hooterville. Part of the success of JCP is due to the web, but a lot of the rest is because of Wal-Mart driving the herd their way.

The facts are there if folks choose to look. I'd look, but I'm too busy working.

Spacefreak has a good point, above. We heard the same stuff about Amazon, but how many of us think that it's really a bad thing? Ask any college student about textbook prices lately. If they're online, it's a whole new ballgame.

[MRTrauffer]

A couple of things that come to mind when comparing Target to Wal-Mart.

1. Lighting. Wal-Mart is way too bright...I usually walk out of there with a headache. Target has softer lights.

2. Jones Soda. Wal-Mart doesn't carry it...Target does.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by MRTrauffer

A couple of things that come to mind when comparing Target to Wal-Mart.

1. Lighting. Wal-Mart is way too bright...I usually walk out of there with a headache. Target has softer lights.

2. Jones Soda. Wal-Mart doesn't carry it...Target does.

Wal-Mart's in-store video system is horrid. If I worked there, I would surely blow my brains out after two days of listening to the same sequence looped every two minutes.