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Apple software is getting worse and worse
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Spliff
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Sep 29, 2002, 04:12 PM
 
Am I the only one noticing this?

Three of Apple's recent offerings have been disappointing and half-baked. iCal, Apple Remote Desktop, and iPhoto have significant problems.

iPhoto and iCal are appallingly slow. Both are OS X only, but they are both far slower than iTunes which runs in OS 9 and X. I know iTunes was formerly SoundJam, so maybe Apple needs some new programmers. I won't mention the many other shortcomings of iCal and iPhoto. That's been discussed enough.

My real beef is with Apple Remote Desktop. Has anyone used this? What a piece of crap. If all the computers you're adminstering are on a local network, it works okay. ARD has some great features, but try using it to administer a computer over broadband internet. Forget it.

I have a cable connection. I have a client with a DSL connection. I'll try two dozen times to connect to his computer. Every time I select "control," ARD begins to draw the other computer's desktop and then it'll just stop. I'll wait and wait and wait until I click out of ARD which then tells me there was a communication error. Yet, if I use Timbuktu, it connects automatically and the connection is much more responsive.

What is the point of releasing software that never works properly. I love OS X, but I am getting so frustrated (even disgusted) with the slowness and incompleteness of Apple's more recent software programs.

I would like to hear from a developer. Why the hell is iCal such a lumbering pig? It's a bloody calender program. That's all. Do I need a dual G4 1.25 with a gig of RAM to run the thing?
     
Zimphire
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Sep 29, 2002, 04:19 PM
 
I am happy with them all but iCal and iPhoto Slow unresponsive GUIs suck.
     
bradoesch
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Sep 29, 2002, 04:38 PM
 
I'd also like to know why they feel so "slow." It's annoying. Are we supposed to buy new computers so that iCal will feel like a normal app?
     
D'Espice
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Sep 29, 2002, 07:08 PM
 
You are definitely not the only one noticiting this. Apple's software get's worse every month, so I decided to freeze my system state and not to update anything unless I'm 110% sure it's working.

Never change a running system...
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one
pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid across the line broadside,
thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, shouting GERONIMO!"
     
Kristoff
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Sep 29, 2002, 09:48 PM
 
Hate to say it...but I agree.

I appreciate all to well how hard it is to polish software.

But iCal sucks. Double click to edit an event? Sometimes. Other times it just ignores the clicks--and you have to "get info". It is slow and unresponsive. And, how useless is a dock icon that has the wrong day? LAME! I can think of several ways to make the icon show the current date all the time. It's just pathetic.

iChat is more like iShat. Doesn't use system proxy settings. Suffers from some sort of issue where responses disappear into the ether. Buggy as hell.

iTunes and iMovie and iDVD are great products. iDVD has some button mask issues from time to time, but by in large, these things work great.

iPhoto was very disappointing when it first came out, so I haven't given the updated version its day in court yet.

but I must say, iCal and iChat are so bad, that I wont even look at iSync ...at least they are admitting it's BETA instead of passing it off as 1.0 like iChat and iCal.

And why I'm at it....WTF is taking JDK 1.4 so long?
signatures are a waste of bandwidth
especially ones with political tripe in them.
     
andy_ghibertii
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Sep 29, 2002, 10:39 PM
 
What about iMovie? Talking about resting on your laurels. Apple has not made a move with this application for quite some time....
     
Fallout
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Sep 29, 2002, 10:59 PM
 
I hear ya. OS X 10.0 was fuking pathetic. It ran amazingly slow, even on a fast machine. There's no way that should've been released. Same with iPhoto and iCal. Why release programs that only run normally on a very fast Mac?
     
Kaner
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Sep 29, 2002, 11:17 PM
 
because they want to sell you a fast mac, duh
     
Spliff  (op)
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Sep 29, 2002, 11:29 PM
 
Originally posted by Kristoff:
iChat is more like iShat. Doesn't use system proxy settings. Suffers from some sort of issue where responses disappear into the ether. Buggy as hell.
OMG. I totally forgot about iChat. Again, it's such a half-assed attempt at a chat client. Some features are cool, but the rest are a joke.
     
moki
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Sep 30, 2002, 02:01 AM
 
Originally posted by Spliff:
Am I the only one noticing this?

Three of Apple's recent offerings have been disappointing and half-baked. iCal, Apple Remote Desktop, and iPhoto have significant problems.

iPhoto and iCal are appallingly slow. Both are OS X only, but they are both far slower than iTunes which runs in OS 9 and X.
But they are cocoa, they (iCal, iPhoto) must be good!
Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
     
Phoenix1701
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Sep 30, 2002, 03:05 AM
 
     
VRL
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Sep 30, 2002, 04:17 AM
 
Frankly, I tend to always give a little slack to anyone with a version 1.x piece of software. If you notice, when version 2 comes out (for most developers including Apple) many improvements are made.

For example, I use iMovie and iTunes all the time. iCal has a LOT of potential, and it's way helpful to "subscribe" to calendars of people (businesses) - I'm doing a lot of this already.

iPhoto is not that bad. The easy ordering of photos tips the scale for me, and I have confidence that improvements are in the works.

What I find getting worse and worse are the attitudes of Apple users (assuming comments are always coming from actual Apple users). IMO, sending helpful feedback directly to Apple and having constructive discussions (or tips like at http://www.macosxhints.com/) is far preferable. ... My 2 cents.

A Happy Mac User
     
Sven G
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Sep 30, 2002, 05:09 AM
 
I've said this before, but IMO the iApps should also be much more "integrated" between them (and with the most "fundamental" of iApps, the Finder), both from the interface/"look and feel" and functionality points of view: for example, iMovie, Mail, and iTunes/iPhoto/iCal are still too different from each other.

The freedom of all is essential to my freedom. - Mikhail Bakunin
     
undotwa
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Sep 30, 2002, 07:34 AM
 
Apple software has always sucked. Get used to it. Only occasionally did they make a good app (iTunes, iMovie, HyperCard, Mac OS X.2, Dev Tools)

What does Apple need?

AppleWorks:
Apple needs a complete REWRITE of AppleWorks. AppleWorks 7, needs to be a Cocoa/Carbon citizen. Nice, workable GUI.

iCal:
Bug fixes, performance fixes... etc. No more brush metal... geeze. I've come to the conclusion that brush metal is bad.

iSync:
Just get rid of brush metal... geeze. Use standard cocoa elements... not that crappy toolbar it uses now.

HyperCard:
Why can't they carbonize this app? There isn't much to give HyperCard other than carbonization, make it use standard Cocoa/Carbon elements, support for modern technologies etc.

iPhoto:
Performance, bug fixes, more photo editing functions and no more brush metal!

Calculator:
Bug fixes, performance enhancements and no more brush metal!

Sherlock:
Release an SDK so people can develop their own Sherlock plugins for International sites.

QuickTime:
Get rid of brush metal! Improve the favourites function.
In vino veritas.
     
undotwa
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Sep 30, 2002, 07:36 AM
 
Originally posted by Phoenix1701:
While I dislike Brushed metal, the yellow and black lines i actually like. They look attractive and do actually alert you of a problem. Plus they were in OS 9 far more often than they were in X (although it was just Red).
In vino veritas.
     
snerdini
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Sep 30, 2002, 09:33 AM
 
Originally posted by undotwa:
Apple software has always sucked. Get used to it. Only occasionally did they make a good app (iTunes, iMovie, HyperCard, Mac OS X.2, Dev Tools)
     
dlefebvre
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Sep 30, 2002, 11:07 AM
 
It's hopless! No matter what Apple do, some people will always think that their applications suck. Let's face it, iPhoto is only $600 chaper than Photoshop and iMovie is only $900 cheaper than FinalCut and iCal is cheaper than office. I know You can always use Palm Desktop even if you don't have a Palm.
That's the thing with free software. It's nice for an occasional use, but if your life (and salary) depends on it, get some real functionnal commercial apps. It's tax deductable you know.
     
clarkgoble
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Sep 30, 2002, 06:08 PM
 
I think "suck" is a tad too strong. Compare them to the equivalent applications that come with XP. They are far superior.

What bothers me is that it seems like many of the problems are things that would be easy to fix. Many problems are small interface issues that really just speak to a lack of polish. I don't understand this.

I agree that some applications, such as Appleworks, are more problematic. Here's hoping Apple has allocated some more resources here. I sense, however, some politics going on behind the scenes with these applications that is keeping the programmers from getting the job done.
     
alex_wlu_82
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Sep 30, 2002, 06:24 PM
 
Originally posted by undotwa:


While I dislike Brushed metal, the yellow and black lines i actually like. They look attractive and do actually alert you of a problem. Plus they were in OS 9 far more often than they were in X (although it was just Red).
what iapp has those yellow stripes... man that's about as inconsistant of a gui that i have ever seen.. I used to love the brushed metal, but like MacOS (X) themes, i got tired of it..
     
spectre
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Sep 30, 2002, 06:33 PM
 
I'd really like to see Apple come out with some updates to iMovie and Appleworks. iMovie was great.. and still is for the most part, but they could really make it so much better.

Appleworks is just crap. My scroll wheel doesn't even work in it. It took Jaguar to give me smooth fonts...

I thought I'd rate Apple's applications in order from best to worst.

1) iTunes 3
2) iMovie 2
3) iDVD 2
4) iPhoto
5) iChat
6) iCal
7) Appleworks

I have yet to try iSync, since its of relatively no use for me.
     
tetzel1517
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Sep 30, 2002, 09:18 PM
 
I think the philosophy and the look and feel behind iChat is really nice. I like the way messages look in iChat much better than in AIM. I like that when one of my buddies has an entry in my Address Book, I see their *real name* in iChat instead of whatever random screen name they have (it even will consolidate for people with two names).

But it's buggy: It randomly quits on me all the time. However, since it also starts up lightning fast, few people I'm chatting with ever notice. But I notice, and I'm the one using the app, so that's what matters. And then there's the bug already mentioned, where you'll send a message, it'll disappear, and you'll get TONS of blank white space below the last message received.

Fix these two things, and I'm a loyal iChat user. Until then, I refuse to touch it.

iPhoto is slow on my machine, but I think that's just because it's only a 600 mHz G3 and loading hundreds of photos takes time. Once I'm in the app, I really don't see much to complain about. I think 2.0 will ROCK.

iSync and iCal... ugh. One of them is screwing up, I just can't figure out which one. I won't say a word about iSync. It's a beta, and that I consider fair warning and implied acceptance of any bugs that may crop up. iCal is only 1.0, but it's still an alpha release. Dog slow, and it seems to have an inability to delete things. I'll delete something from it and from every other device I'm syncing to, but once I sync, the old items pop back up. I just did a clean re-install of iCal, getting rid of the files it put in my library, and I'm going to see how it works tonight. But I'm not optimistic.

For now, I'm using Palm Desktop for Calendar syncing, but I still use Address Book for contact syncing. It's easy enough to set up so that I can still do that through iSync.

But it shouldn't have to be that way, and I think Apple knows this. When iCal 1.1 and iSync 1.0 come out, I expect much better results.
     
dlefebvre
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Sep 30, 2002, 10:05 PM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
I think "suck" is a tad too strong. Compare them to the equivalent applications that come with XP. They are far superior.
My point was that no matter what Apple do, some people will always complain even if the apps are free. I have no problems with Apple's apps, they do a good job for free apps. And if some people find some of them inadequate then I suggest they buy commercial apps and stop whining. That how we keep a platform alive, by buying software.
     
andy_ghibertii
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Sep 30, 2002, 10:42 PM
 
I think Apple opened Pandora's box when they allowed brushed metal as an option for developers? It makes absolutely no sense why some applications are brushed metal and others are aqua? Apple supposedly spent all of this time developing Aqua and all of its UI standards and then they turn around and release brushed metal and an application like iSync. What is the point of having a standard if you don't stick to it? I feel this is what seperates the old Apple from the new, the attention to detail. Allowing the OS to have to UI's, in my opinion, is a very short sighted on Apple's part.

I don't like the magazine Business Week but I have to agree with its recent article on the board of directors, they are a joke. I think SJ has done a great job reviving Apple but he really needs to to told that he should step aside on certain decisions. SJ should not be able to decide what the interface should look like just because he likes it! (dock.app....brushed metal look and feel, etc)

Apple has an incredible opportunity to gain inroads into many markets. I make a living supporting MacOS/OS X clients and I would hate to see Apple forget what brought them such a loyal following...attention to detail.
     
pliny
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Sep 30, 2002, 11:50 PM
 
I always liked iChat--it's simple and never crashed on me once. In comaprison I find the AIM from AOhelL and proteus et al too busy--it's just for chatting for pete's sake.

Apple needs to get off its a.s.s. and update Appleworks, what the hell is up with that.

I find iCal ok but notificaitons, uh, do they work for anyone? Subscribing to calendars is a great idea. As with the GUI overall in X the iCal GUI leaves much to be desired.

iTunes 3 is ok but iTunes 2 has a smaller footprint.

Mail--junk mail filter is great. I read many posts about its slowness when handling large numbers of emails but Entourage and Eudora under X are no better here IMO. And Mail is free.
i look in your general direction
     
JLL
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Oct 1, 2002, 07:36 AM
 
Originally posted by andy_ghibertii:
SJ should not be able to decide what the interface should look like just because he likes it! (dock.app....brushed metal look and feel, etc)
And who says that he is the one who decided that Apple made Brushed Metal?
JLL

- My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
     
   
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