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dgbatchelor · Jun 19, 2003, 08:49 PM

I have a 1GHz TiBook with SD... A couple of months ago I had purchased a stack of DVD-R General blank discs. At that time, I created several DVD-R back-ups from my system -- as well as created several DVD-R video discs... All was well. Things were good.

This past week, I've been trying without success to create some additional DVD-R back-ups using Toast 5.2.1... But I continually get "Sense Key = MEDIUM ERROR Sense Code = 0x73, 0x03", which I believe indicates that the SD is having difficulty writing to the specific inserted media.

I've tried a couple other brands of DVD-R media... Still -- no success...

(No problems at all reading from DVDs or reading/writing CD-ROMs...)

If I insert a blank DVD-R, iDVD even kicks out a message indicating that it crashed...

So I finally was about to give up -- and then I thought to try the single blank DVD-R which Apple shipped to me when I purchased my TiBook last November... And surprise! It was successful.

What gives? Was there a change in the OS which makes the device driver software work differently? (A change in sensitivity?) I have NEVER updated the drive firmware -- it is still version D0C4

Writing at 2x would be a dream -- but I'd be happy writing at 1x... Right now it's at zero x!

Is there some related OS driver which got corrupted? (How could I check?)

I am running 10.2.6 with the latest OS X updates...

What a mystery! (If it had NEVER worked, then I wouldn't be so puzzled.)

Any ideas? TIA.

Eug · Jun 19, 2003, 09:03 PM

Try Mitsui, TDK, or Apple media. Then judge.

Generics can be hit-or-miss.

dgbatchelor · Jun 20, 2003, 03:44 AM

Thanks for the advice... I was able to pick up some Apple 2x DVD-R and TDK 2x DVD-R media.

Works like a champ with this media.

Still can't figure out why my original media was so reliable in January and February (when I successfully burned about 60 out of 60 DVD-R) -- from the same cake box which isn't working now (0 out of 20!)...

Tends to point at a power or sensitivity drop-off of in my SD or a change in the OS driver which might not be as forgiving as it was back in Jan/Feb of this year. Something has changed.

The true investigation is only just beginning.

Thanks again!

elfmund · Jun 20, 2003, 11:54 AM

hi.. i have always used Apple media with my superdrive and since it is only 2x i only buy 2x discs....

lately it has been complaining and whining out the exact same error as seen in the previous post...

what can that be since i've tried 5 discs in a row!!! i have rebooted, reinstalled toast ...

BkueKanoodle · Jun 21, 2003, 02:00 AM

I've had the same error. It seemed to be directly related to the media. ZI bought a 50 pack og bmi 1x and they worked like a champ/ When I went to reorder, they were out of the 1x speed. so I got bmi 4x. These have been very hit or miss. I think its alot like when cd r drives first came out, the technology and the blank cd's were's "there" enough and you ended up with just as many coasters as you did working cd's. Find a brand that works for you and stick with it until the technology improves. Sometimer the cd makers have a bad batch too, which sounds like the case with your problem.

dgbatchelor · Jun 21, 2003, 02:10 AM

The strange issue is that the first 60 blanks in the cake box worked perfectly... Then I stopped burning DVDs for a couple of months... When I needed to burn additional DVDs, I tried to use the next blank DVD on the stack...

MAYBE something in my TiBook changed (software or hardware aging)... or, the media effectively has a "shelf life"...

Continuing my experiments, I picked up a "fresh" short cake box of blank DVDs (Verbatium brand)... and they also worked!

I've also ordered a "sampler kit" to check out compatibility with some other brands...

Does anyone know if blank DVDs "age"?

...and then there is that concern in the back of my head... Do burned DVD-Rs "age"???

Thoughts?

-- Don Batchelor --

seanyepez · Jun 21, 2003, 05:49 AM

If stored properly, optical media lasts for over a hundred years.

riverfreak · Aug 8, 2003, 07:49 PM

Well, I've run into the EXACT same situation. Had a cake box or two of DVD-Rs that I burned through with no problems. A few months ago, I'd get the occassional medium error. Sometimes putting the same disc back in would work and I'd be able to get a successful burn.

Now, I can rarely get past the "Writing Lead-In" phase. If I do, the burn may succeed but verification inevitably fails (and for that matter usually can't even be mounted).

I still get this error routinely with the top dollar media.

This is *extremely* annoying. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this was actually a hardware issue - I certainly carry my powerbook around a lot. Misalignment?

dgbatchelor · Aug 8, 2003, 10:24 PM

My only solution to date has been picking a different brand of media... That new brand will work for a while and then [SURPRISE, SURPRISE] I'll start getting media errors, again!

At that point, I buy another brand... and the "experience" repeats...

Can you say "Ground Hog Day"?

I figure that I'll just hold on to my "unusable" cake boxes of media for a few months... Who knows, with the SD so unpredictable, it might just start accepting them again.

v/r,
-- Don --

P.S. -- I also suspect a hardware design problem with the SD... but how to convince anyone to "fix" it? This kind of problem spoils the "Apple Experience"... but I've been a long time supporter -- from Apple ][+ days -- so I'll tolerate a few inconveniences.

riverfreak · Aug 9, 2003, 11:10 AM

Don -

I hear you and feel your pain. I have a cakebox with 80+ dvds sitting right here. I had already burned 70 of this brand or so with very few failures.

Grasping at straws, I may or may not have noticed that deselecting the 'prevent buffer underrun' option in toast may or may not enable more of the media to be recognized and burned. YMMV.

dgbatchelor · 10:03 PM

Riverfreak --

The setting of "Prevent bufffer underrun" does not seem to make a difference with this problem.

Oh well... Life goes on.

(Maybe the problem will be "fixed" on the new dual-processor G5 PowerBook...)

-- Don --

riverfreak · Aug 11, 2003, 09:35 PM

Yep, Don, indeed you are write (sic). I spoke too soon about the "Buffer Underrun" checkbox. Makes no difference.

*sigh*

tomasboudr · Aug 13, 2003, 05:01 PM

here at NASA we have these ritek discs that are plain white on top so we can print on them with a disk printer. They work perfectly in the macs with superdrives and in PCs with pioneer 103 drives (same hardware drive as a superdrive) but when I tried them in my 12incher I got only the first one to work after that no dice for 4 discs. They always complete burning but fail verification with a bad sector 230 then only sometimes mount and even when they mount you can;t copy or use the data off the discs

I agree with you both that this is kinda a sore spot in the Apple experience. Maybe I will try this new firmware mentioned in the other post to see if it helps

-Thomas

riverfreak · Aug 13, 2003, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by tomasboudr:
here at NASA we have these ritek discs that are plain white on top so we can print on them with a disk printer. ...

Thomas -
Yes, I've used these same discs. At first they worked like the champ, but they don't work any longer. In fact, I can't get any media to work reliably, even the top shelf apple branded stuff.

Exasperated and annoyed, I finally called Apple because I shouldn't have to try ten different discs to find one that will burn. The tech support was very responsive (perhaps because I had purchased AppleCare moments before) and said yep, that isn't right, send it in. So I'm now copying everything off the drive in anticipation of sending it in.

For the record, I haven't messed with any of the firmware hacks. Still running with the original DOC4 and UJ-815 (no A or B).

I'll let you know what happens - hopefully by early next week,

forcelite · Aug 14, 2003, 10:35 AM

I have had the same exact problems as all the above with me 12" PB.

Also, I have had a few plextors and pioneers do the same thing. Originally when I got my burners I could use them at the top speeds (say 40X). A year or so later I would get errors in nero if I burned at 40X, so I droped it down to 24 and all was good. About a year later I started to get an error again in nero, nothing I did helped get a good CD except lowering it to 16X. A little later I had to lower it again to 12X. It has been a few years and all is good at 12X so I think I have hit bottom.

One thing to think about is this has happened to many drives (Plextor, Pioneer, Sony, and now Apple) and many different speeds and types of drives (40X most recently 12 before that, A03, ect)

So what I got from this was that drives actually do have a usage life. I believe that many brands simply overclock thier drives to get more performance out of them. Since these drives do have moving parts its very possible that they gradually do misallign themselves. Also I was in college alot of these years so I moved every year, so maybe the transportation had quickened the process (although I noticed nothing directly after moves).

So there you have it, the same exact problem with many different drives. I think things would be different if apple shipped a 4X dvd-r drive, then you could simply burn at 2X, then at 1X

Force

riverfreak · Aug 14, 2003, 04:03 PM

forecelite -

thanks for your insight.

yes, I think it is very reasonable to expect that the drives become misaligned. I move my powerbook each and every day. I move it all over the place and use it in and least three locations per day.

But if they do become misaligned to the point it being useful, I'm just going to keep having it replaced. The superdrive was a big part of my upgrad threshold, and there's a reason I purchased the AppleCare, too - so that I can reasonably get many days of productive use from this machine.

river

dgbatchelor · Sep 4, 2003, 03:51 AM

Well... an update on burning DVDs...

I've been successfully burning the original media -- the ones which I had burned 60+ from a cakebox and then (after a period of non-burning) I couldn't get my TiBook SD to burn again... BUT this time I am burning them in a SD in a G4 MD tower. Different type of drive -- but DVD Studio Pro indicates that the media complies to version 1.0 of the DVD-Video Specification...

Today I have successfully burned some 20 DVDs in a row. No hiccups. No problems. (But this is on a different drive!)

This points to the SD in my TiBook as being the problem -- not the media!

I would think that drive alignment or some other aging process is occuring prematurely in the TiBook SD...

It doesn't seem right that a SD should start failing after 60 discs... at least I don't recall anything in the warranty which indicates such a short lifespan...

Riverfreak, any luck getting your SD fixed?

-- Don --

Freeflyer · Sep 6, 2003, 09:47 AM

Just to add to this, last week I started having the same problem with cd-r's. I've used the same brand for a year with no problems, now they won't work.

I had to take my powerbook in for a hinge replacement, and when I got it back they'd replaced the superdrive chassis mount. No explanation as to why, but I'm guessing some sort of damage or misalignment.

Hey presto, my disks work again, so if you have this problem and are still under warranty, I'd definitely suggest taking the book in for a checkup.

Cheers,

J.

dgbatchelor · Sep 6, 2003, 04:14 PM

Freeflyer --

You may have solved this mystery.

I just tried to burn a CD-R today... and it failed, too!

It looks like I'm going to have to part with my TiBook for a while to let Apple fix it under my AppleCare policy, too.

BTW, how long did yours take to get fixed? (and did you send it to Apple or some other approved service center (e.g., CompUSA)?

-- Don --

Eug Wanker · Sep 6, 2003, 04:59 PM

Yeah take it in.

On a positive note, with the hacked firmware, I'm happily burning DVDs at 2X, and CDs at 16X on my TiBook. And I can burn DVD-RW too.

Freeflyer · Sep 6, 2003, 07:44 PM

Took it to local applestore (houston) on Wed and had it back Friday. The repair depot is in Houston, so it's out by courier, fixed the next day and straight back.

Very speedy.

Good luck with getting yours fixed.

Cheers,

J.

dgbatchelor · Oct 20, 2003, 01:34 AM

Just thought I'd report back in...

The problem is solved. Apple replaced the drive and/or some cable inside the laptop. (Amazing how everything is working again!)

(The delay in getting the SD fixed was due to my reluctance to give it up for a few days...)

If you are having problems burning media which used to work --- and are now suddenly no longer successfully burning, I'd strongly recommend giving Apple a call... The TiBook is a wonderful machine, but sometimes it might need a little service.

I'd sure recommend AppleCare to anyone who is approaching the end of their "free" service...

Thanks for all the advice.

It's a happy ending.

v/r,
-- Don Batchelor --

Freeflyer · Oct 20, 2003, 09:00 AM

Great to hear that everything's working again. Must admit, I'm a bit concerned that we're having this sort of problem with a machine that's less than a year old.

Really starts to seem as though this is a known about problem now.

Cheers,

J.

sith33 · Oct 20, 2003, 11:13 AM

I had the same problem on my iMac. Burned a bunch of crap-brand generic DVD-R's right away with no trouble. A year later, tried to burn some more stuff and every disc was failing verification. Had a new superdrive put in, still had troubles. Bought some apple branded stuff and it worked great.

*Shrug*

sovereign · Nov 1, 2003, 02:57 PM

Is this degradation in burning performance occuring in a large percentage of Superdrives? Does it also affect the burn times/disc recognition of CD-R and CD-RW with the Superdrive, or is it specifically a DVD-R related problem? Is this a problem with Combodrives (CD-R/CD-RW), also? I will probably go with the Superdrive at any rate, but this may be a good reason to eventually purchase Applecare!?

dgbatchelor · 04:21 PM

I know that there is a wide variety of DVD-R blank media. At first, I thought that maybe the media was bad, but since it was part of the same batch (cakebox with 100 discs), I quickly focused my suspicions on the drive.

Most people whose drive starts to fail will not be in the same situation (where 1/2 a cakebox was successfully burned a couple of months earlier, and then the other 1/2 of the cakebox fails to work)... In this case, those individuals can try other media -- but my experience of trying seven or eight brands still left me with a "tempermental" burner and a stack of useless coasters. At one point, it even finally stopped burning CD-R media.

Once the drive was fixed, I have been able to burn DVD-R media to my heart's content.

The 1X DVD-R media I use is extremely inexpensive ($0.61 to $0.75 per disc depending on quantity), available at:

http://www.meritline.com/dvdprobul47d.html

I have been very happy with this media. YMMV.

Meritline also sells media sample kits to allow you to try several types to find the brand which works best for your burner before you go out and purchase the blanks in bulk.

When in doubt, get your drive checked...

I can't say enough good things about getting AppleCare for a laptop... When I shipped the laptop back to Apple to repair the SuperDrive, the LCD screen got cracked (on the return trip via Airborne Express?)... Apple swiftly replaced the screen at no charge. A week after receiving the newly replaced LCD screen, the screen driver electronics had a catastrophic failure -- and the laptop went back to Apple for a second replacement screen.

v/r,
-- Don Batchelor --

forcelite · Nov 1, 2003, 06:16 PM

The reason I talked about all my experience with my different drives was to show how its not a superdrive problem but rather a universal problem.

Like I said before I have bought tons of different burners, makes and models, and most had a lifespan. Some more than others of course.

I believe that it matters how much the unit is transported, and things like that. But all burners, cd-rw or dvd-rw, have lifespans