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ColdMac - My Winter Project
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l008com
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Dec 22, 2010, 06:53 AM
 
This may sound weird, but I've always wanted to stick a computer in my shed for the winter, to see if it could run through the cold. Well I got my hands on an old G3 iBook (900Mhz), and it's just too slow to do anything else. So I installed apache/php/mysql on it, a few scripts, little a this, little a that... and now this iBook is sitting in my shed. Completely uninsulated shed. It's shielded from rain and snow (mostly), but fully exposed to outside temperatures. I know it's weird, but I find it very very interesting! The iBook is hosting it's own website:

http://coldmac.johnmasone.com

It's not done yet. I have a script recording temperature readings to an MySQL database every 10 minutes. I really want to find a cheap USB thermometer to add true ambient are readings, instead of just relying on the national weather service for the outdoor temp. I also need to add some flash graphs to the web page to give interesting views of the temperature data. I'd also love to run an ethernet cable out there, so this ibook wasn't running off B speed wifi, but that's not going to happen. I'd really love to get a CPU temp reading but theres no way that's going to happen. Shame I can't run this on a macbook, with all 10 or so of it's thermal readings! Oh well, that would be a waste of a macbook. But this isn't a waste of an ibook, this is saving an ibook, from the recycling pile!
     
Laminar
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Dec 22, 2010, 10:35 AM
 
Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to coldmac.johnmasone.com:88
Well, looks like we found out how long it will last...
     
SSharon
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Dec 22, 2010, 10:50 AM
 
I see the page. Will there be graphs in the center?
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BLAZE_MkIV
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Dec 22, 2010, 11:43 AM
 
Well its not really handling the cold if you've got SETI running the CPU as a heater.
     
osiris
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Dec 22, 2010, 11:59 AM
 
I think 50F/10C is the minimum operating temperature. I imagine humidity would affect that, plus any incidental sunlight could cause dew, then freezing/cracking... who knows.

But I imagine the computer will die at some point - with its hands clutched in vengeance, and face frozen with a hateful grin.
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l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:08 PM
 
Yes I'm going to put the graphs in the center. As far as seti... the computer needs SOMETHING to do. Its never going to get enough web traffic for that apache load to add up to anything significant. If only G3's had a CPU temperature.
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Well, looks like we found out how long it will last...
Seems to be working for everyone else?
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:13 PM
 
Good luck with this project!

I'm interested at your hack to make sure the iBook never goes to sleep. Does changing all of the Energy Saver settings to prevent sleep not do this, or are these broken and/or missing in 10.4?
     
SpaceMonkey
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com
Seems to be working for everyone else?
Not me.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Not me.
Really? Even right now, you can't access it??

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Good luck with this project!

I'm interested at your hack to make sure the iBook never goes to sleep. Does changing all of the Energy Saver settings to prevent sleep not do this, or are these broken and/or missing in 10.4?
Well, if you mean making it not sleep with the lid closed, I simply removed the reed switch with a soldering iron. This iBook will never again sleep on lid-close.

If you mean sleeping in general, I simply set it to never sleep in system prefs.
     
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:27 PM
 
Works for me.
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SpaceMonkey
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Really? Even right now, you can't access it??
I get the same "can't connect" message as Laminar.

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imitchellg5
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:28 PM
 
Working just fine here:
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:41 PM
 
That's wierd, why would some people randomly not be able to connect?
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Really? Even right now, you can't access it??



Well, if you mean making it not sleep with the lid closed, I simply removed the reed switch with a soldering iron. This iBook will never again sleep on lid-close.

If you mean sleeping in general, I simply set it to never sleep in system prefs.

Ahh, okay, I missed the part about this experiment being conducted with the lid closed.
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
That's wierd, why would some people randomly not be able to connect?
Can those people connect to:

his IP ?
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
I think 50F/10C is the minimum operating temperature. I imagine humidity would affect that, plus any incidental sunlight could cause dew, then freezing/cracking... who knows.

But I imagine the computer will die at some point - with its hands clutched in vengeance, and face frozen with a hateful grin.
haha! I think the ibook will pull through the winter. Mainly because even though it's cold, it's temps are being held fairly constant. And the inner warmth should prevent condensation/froze. If i was turning it off every night and on every morning, while it was out in the shed... I'd give it a week But I suspect it will pull through.


So the "project" is going to end around the end of April. I was toying with the idea of just leaving it out there indefinitely, until it died. But then I realized that spring will kill it. It will end up completely packed solid with pollen inside. That will surely cause it to overhead, or worse.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Dec 22, 2010, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Can those people connect to:

his IP ?
No.

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l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 04:05 PM
 
what about the ip without the custom port?
     
imitchellg5
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Dec 22, 2010, 04:10 PM
 
I can connect to the IP.
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 04:11 PM
 
Yeah but you could connect to the domain too. I'm trying to figure out why random people can't connect at all. I wonder if it has something to do with my port mapping in natd :/
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Dec 22, 2010, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
haha! I think the ibook will pull through the winter. Mainly because even though it's cold, it's temps are being held fairly constant. And the inner warmth should prevent condensation/froze. If i was turning it off every night and on every morning, while it was out in the shed... I'd give it a week But I suspect it will pull through.


So the "project" is going to end around the end of April. I was toying with the idea of just leaving it out there indefinitely, until it died. But then I realized that spring will kill it. It will end up completely packed solid with pollen inside. That will surely cause it to overhead, or worse.
If you weren't running SETI I think the temp of the machine would drop down to ambient and then you'd see temperature related effects. With SETI, it could just as well be inside, the humidity will be higher, so IMHO experiment is over, your data isn't going to change unless the temperature drops to 60 below..
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2010, 04:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Yeah but you could connect to the domain too. I'm trying to figure out why random people can't connect at all. I wonder if it has something to do with my port mapping in natd :/
It could be that the IP block is being blocked or is inaccessible to some...

I hope my putting on my troubleshooting hat isn't stepping on your toes, I'm not certain whether you are asking this in a sort of thinking-out-loud sort of way or whether you want some ideas/suggestions/input.
     
Laminar
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Dec 22, 2010, 05:27 PM
 
Didn't work on Chrome, Firefox, or IE via my company's wired internet or on the iPod via unfiltered wi-fi.
     
imitchellg5
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Dec 22, 2010, 06:19 PM
 
Say, Comcast isn't your ISP are they?
     
Laminar
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Dec 22, 2010, 06:23 PM
 
Who? Me?
     
Doofy
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Dec 22, 2010, 06:24 PM
 
IP seems to default to 88. Which is a silly port to put a web server on. 8080 instead?
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Laminar
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Dec 22, 2010, 06:28 PM
 
Nerd.
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 08:36 PM
 
Why is 88 a silly port to put a web server on? Comcast isn't MY isp. Not sure who you were directing that question to. Also I don't think that the fact I'm running seti @ 40% cpu load invalidates this whole experiment. No more than does the fact that my sample size is one 8 year old low end mac. But since there is no real goal here anyway except to "see what happens", I think I'm going to keep it running.
     
Lateralus
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Dec 22, 2010, 08:51 PM
 
I don't see how running SETI invalidates the experiment either.
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imitchellg5
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Dec 22, 2010, 08:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Why is 88 a silly port to put a web server on? Comcast isn't MY isp. Not sure who you were directing that question to.
Sorry, that was directed at you. I was asking because, especially in my area, Comcast is known to block ports it suspects people of hosting sites via.
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 08:59 PM
 
Nope I'm on fios. And if comcast was to block, they'd do a complete block, not a block-only-certain-people kind of block. Comcast blocked my INCOMING port 25 to "prevent spam". **** comcast.
     
Doofy
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Dec 22, 2010, 09:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Why is 88 a silly port to put a web server on?
Because it's an official security admin port?
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l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 09:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Because it's an official security admin port?
My iBook is not running a kerberos server.
     
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Dec 22, 2010, 09:28 PM
 
Works fine here on Rogers.
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 09:36 PM
 
So the "Internal" temp on the site is just the SMART temp. I assume thats inside the hard drive, not on it's board. So its very possible that the processor and logic board are much cooler than the internal. Also, I left the battery in the iBook. It still gets an hour or so of use, so I figure if the power goes out, you won't be able to access the website, but it will still be able to record data for up to an hour. Our power almost never goes out for more than an hour. But I hope the cold doesn't cause any problems with the battery. Also I did set seti to stop running on battery power. That way if the power does go out, seti won't suck the battery dry in 20 minutes.

... just some thoughts.
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2010, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
My iBook is not running a kerberos server.
THe upper ports such as 8080 are reserved for usage for custom services and are less likely to be blocked... It is possible that some ISPs do indeed block Kerberos requests on port 88. I'm not saying terribly likely, but...
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 09:45 PM
 
Well, hopefully nobody bookmarked the url with the port number. I've been telling people the url without it, so I can change the port number if I need to.
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2010, 09:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Nope I'm on fios. And if comcast was to block, they'd do a complete block, not a block-only-certain-people kind of block. Comcast blocked my INCOMING port 25 to "prevent spam". **** comcast.
I hate Comcast, but I don't blame them for that. There is a port setup for outgoing mail SMTP connections (587) (although I'm able to smart relay on port 25 and I'm a Comcast user), and lots of organizations do not permit rogue SMTP servers.
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 09:49 PM
 
But INCOMING?? I was relaying all of my outgoing mail through their mail server anyway. But then they blocked INCOMING on port 25. You can't 'send' a spam on a packet that you are RECEIVING.
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2010, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
But INCOMING?? I was relaying all of my outgoing mail through their mail server anyway. But then they blocked INCOMING on port 25. You can't 'send' a spam on a packet that you are RECEIVING.
It is still a rogue SMTP server if it is receiving mail. A trojan could be setup to receive mail and redirect it out on port 587, in theory.

It is a somewhat overreaching, but I can understand a company like Comcast wanting to a keep a very safe distance away from all of this resource consuming sort of stuff. They prefer basic computer users that don't do much with their computers and don't use much bandwidth, they are less of a resource drain
     
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Dec 22, 2010, 09:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
But INCOMING?? I was relaying all of my outgoing mail through their mail server anyway. But then they blocked INCOMING on port 25. You can't 'send' a spam on a packet that you are RECEIVING.
If you have open in 25 and open out 25, it's easy to become a spam relay station (if you're a Windows user). ISP doesn't know you're not a Windows user, so will use some kind of protection against this happening as a default config.
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l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 10:02 PM
 
FYI I'm now recording and reporting relative humidity too. It comes from the national weather service though, I'm not measuring it myself.
     
imitchellg5
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Dec 22, 2010, 10:09 PM
 
So, why don't you stop running SETI for a night and see what happens?
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 10:10 PM
 
Why? I'm perfectly content letting seti run.
     
imitchellg5
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Dec 22, 2010, 10:12 PM
 
To see what the temperatures do.
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 10:13 PM
 
The HD temp would likely go down a degree or two. I'm more interested in seeing what happens when the outdoor temp drops to 0° or lower.
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2010, 10:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
If you have open in 25 and open out 25, it's easy to become a spam relay station (if you're a Windows user). ISP doesn't know you're not a Windows user, so will use some kind of protection against this happening as a default config.

It's easy to do it on the Unix end too, providing you can trick a user into authenticating...
     
l008com  (op)
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Dec 22, 2010, 10:37 PM
 
OK I changed the port to 30080, so try is now: http://coldmac.johnmasone.com and see if it's any different - directed at anyone who feels like checking.
     
Doofy
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Dec 22, 2010, 10:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
It's easy to do it on the Unix end too, providing you can trick a user into authenticating...
I'd expect user stupidity to be built into a Windows system, with much less user stupidity on a *nix box.
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