[darcybaston]

That's true, but I'm hoping to wait and see if a PCIX graphics enabled Powermac comes out.

Is the Dell 24" HD really that much better than Apple's 20" ? From a color/crisp/contrast/viewing angle perspective? Is it at least 1680 wide in res? How much does it cost? Just curious in case...

[intake]

I picked up my Dell 2405 for about $850 after coupons. I couldn't be happier, especially for the price.

[Commodus]

Originally Posted by darcybaston

That's true, but I'm hoping to wait and see if a PCIX graphics enabled Powermac comes out.

Is the Dell 24" HD really that much better than Apple's 20" ? From a color/crisp/contrast/viewing angle perspective? Is it at least 1680 wide in res? How much does it cost? Just curious in case...

It's PCIe, not PCIX. PCI-X is already in the PowerMacs and is really just a higher-clocked PCI. PCI Express isn't backwards-compatible, as far as I know, and right now it's mainly used for video cards. I'll say that PCIe is a shoe-in for the next PowerMacs; if an iMac has it already, that means that PowerMac mainboards can already have it.

As far as the Dell display, the 24" model runs at 1920x1200 - the same as Apple's 23" model. I've heard that the Dell model is the overall better deal, but I'm not sure if I'd want either. Samsung's 242MP would be better because it has better looks, built-in TV tuners, and (if I recall correctly) a remote. It might cost more than Dell's but it's probably much more effective as a hybrid monitor/TV.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by darcybaston

Is the Dell 24" HD really that much better than Apple's 20" ? From a color/crisp/contrast/viewing angle perspective? Is it at least 1680 wide in res? How much does it cost? Just curious in case...

The Dell 24" HD is comparable to Apple's 23" HD (same number of pixels), except $400-600 cheaper.
The Dell 20" uses a newer/better revision of the same panel make/model in the Apple 20", but again it's $100-400 cheaper.

[darcybaston]

Thanks for the info guys. Time to go visit Samsung and Dell online. What about Viewsonic? I used to really enjoy using their CRTs.

[travisimo]

i definatly think it will be dual duals to the rescue.. after all the xbox 360 is already sporting a trifect of powerpc 3.2 dual cores as i type this... i can't wait!!!!

[Lateralus]

The Xbox's PPCs have nothing to do with G5s though.

[pman68]

The rumors are that the high end mac, whatever the specs, will be over 3K. ouch.

who can afford that?

[k2director]

For a quad Mac that offers appreciably better performance for video work in Final Cut and Motion? I can!

[darcybaston]

Pro users tend have a business surrounding their PowerMac purchase, which means more credit, moolah, tax breaks etc.

[jcadam]

Originally Posted by mduell

The Dell 24" HD is comparable to Apple's 23" HD (same number of pixels), except $400-600 cheaper.
The Dell 20" uses a newer/better revision of the same panel make/model in the Apple 20", but again it's $100-400 cheaper.

Apple displays are overpriced. Everyone knows this.

[crooner]

While we're talking about Apple displays...
Has anyone heard any word on whether there might be a price drop on current displays at the announcement?

[brokenjago]

You never know. Maybe. Wouldn't hurt to wait the two days to check, would it?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by crooner

While we're talking about Apple displays...
Has anyone heard any word on whether there might be a price drop on current displays at the announcement?

Since you mention it: Average Selling Price (ASP) for widescreen LCDs may drop 30% by the 2nd quarter of next year

[crooner]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

You never know. Maybe. Wouldn't hurt to wait the two days to check, would it?

Oh, yeah. Definitely gonna wait until the announcement. But whether or not they drop the price I'll likely be getting a 30" next week! Very excited as this will complete my new system. It will be flanked by two of the Dell 24" displays. I wonder if Mac OS X will allow for that many pixels... at one point when I had a three display setup I ran into a pixel limit than was fixed with the nest update. It manifested itself by not allowing any icon to be placed past "the invisible line." Windows, on the other hand, could be placed in that area.

It would be very sweet if they lowered the price to $2499. We shall see.

[Chad A Wright]

Originally Posted by pman68

The rumors are that the high end mac, whatever the specs, will be over 3K. ouch.

who can afford that?

All of us who have been saving since the promise of 3Ghz Powermacs. I've limped by on a 1Ghz Powerbook and a 1.42 Mac mini since then. It's been so many years I've even had time to save for a 30" ACD.

Can't wait.

[TailsToo]

We'll find out in 13 hours....

[Lateralus]

The event isn't until Wednesday...

[crooner]

Originally Posted by Chad A Wright

All of us who have been saving since the promise of 3Ghz Powermacs. I've limped by on a 1Ghz Powerbook and a 1.42 Mac mini since then. It's been so many years I've even had time to save for a 30" ACD.

Can't wait.

Do you really think we'll see 3Ghz G5s? It would be a bittersweet landmark, for sure, but I'm betting we would have heard that IBM had reached that speed from outlets other than Apple. I think the smart money is on dual core PowerMacs, a dual-dual being the bee's knee's.

[Eriamjh]

I don't think we'll see 3GHz. There have been no reports of IBM being capable of making them.

Quad PMs at over $3000 have been rumored. The fastest mentioned has been 2.8GHz, although I thought the dual-core CPUs were stuck at 2.5GHz.

[jamil5454]

We'll find out tomorrow...

[GORDYmac]

Here's hoping the G5 goes out with a BANG! My credit card is waiting...

[Todd Madson]

It will be two years until the next "Power Macintosh" (whatever that will be under the Intel world).

My guess: in the PPC power Macs to come: the current form factor will remain the
same and in the future they will just release faster CPU chips as they come out but
keep the features and commodity hardware much the same but increase the
capabilities of DVD writers and video cards as they improve.

Tomorrow should be interesting.

[darcybaston]

Originally Posted by GORDYmac

Here's hoping the G5 goes out with a BANG! My credit card is waiting...

As is mine. This will be my first Tower and I couldn't be more excited. My evolution has gone from emulating OS 7.5 on an Amiga 1200, to an iMac DV SE and then an iBook 14" 933mhz.

I'm really looking forward to enjoying real speed and expandability for a change. It will also be nice to play a 3D game or two without having to drop down settings to 640x480 and grumbling why there wasn't just a black and white wireframe option.

I've got Logic Express, Ableton Live 5 and I'm ready to rock and roll!

[mduell]

And now for a completely different idea: How about a PowerMac G5.5?

IBM was supposed to develop PPC980 in parallel with POWER5, instead of after the fact as with PPC970/POWER4. Ok, POWER5 has been shipping for about a year now, where's PPC980?

[brokenjago]

If they release a dual-dual G5 tomorrow, I'll be hard pressed to continue on track and save for an iMac G5 + iBook G4 instead of a PowerMac and 30" ACD... we'll see.

We'll see.

[Eriamjh]

I think the announcement starts at Noon EDT. (Crosses fingers for dual-duals).

[Appleman]

I get this when checking my account at the Dutch Apple Store:

"Apple's Online and phone Order Status services are temporarily unavailable due to a scheduled upgrade to our systems. We apologize for any inconvenience."

[Eriamjh]

Quad 2.5GHz (Twin Duals) for $3300. With PCI-Express slots all around and some free apps (FC Express and something else), its a decent upgrade, but is it really worth $600 more than the Dual 2.7GHz model (they still are selling them).

[darcybaston]

Well, I did it. I'm sitting here using a new Dual core 2.0 ghz machine, stock config. It is absolutely the fastest computer I have ever used in my life. W-O-W.

It's my upgrade to an iBook 933MHz, so you can imagine the light/day quality change in the experience. I loaded up Warcraft III tonight, cranked all the settings as high as they could go and...butter.

The profile migration tool worked flawlessly. I put the iBook in target firewire disk mode, and the G5 booted itself up alone for the first time, it was as if I was in my cozy space, only a helluva lot faster and I keep getting surprised at how I can actually turn my head a bit to look left or right, even on a 20" screen.

I'm in bliss. This is incredible. I'm installing Halo as I write this and I'm getting ready to have some serious fun.

Watching the two cpu meters in activity monitor is interesting. It always distributes the load evenly between the two. I haven't seen one take over from the other, altough they do jump up and down a little separately at times.

Anyway, that's it for now. Going to go play...

[Lateralus]

What does the About This Mac window display regarding the processor? Does it still say 'Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5' or something like 'Dual-Core 2GHz PowerPC G5'?

[Chad A Wright]

Congratulations on your new machine. I was so tempted to go with the 2.3 since I could have it in a day or two. This 3-4 week wait for the Quad is going to kill me. I just console myself knowing it will be with me for many years to come.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Nah... Something more like:

Single 2.0 GHz 970MP: $1899
Single 2.2 GHz 970MP: $2299
Single 2.5 GHz 970MP: $2699
Dual 2.5 GHz 970MP: $3299

ie. No more single-core G5s at all in Power Macs.

Well, not totally correct, but close.

[Lateralus]

Not really.

[Eriamjh]

The discussions on the new PMs are thin. Is no one impressed? I'm not greatly moved by this update.

The base model G5 has gone from two single cores to a single dual-core. PCI/PCI-X dropped for PCIe. 8 DIMM slots instead of 4. Same 2GHz speed. Same price. Twin Gigabit ports instead of one.

What is the performance increase from dual singles to a single dual? I guess we have to wait for benchmarks.

A lack of PCIe cards will likely hold many back. Is someone making PCIe SATA cards or the like?

Is it me or do few really need two gigabit ports?

How are the video cards?

This update makes me want to pick up a Dual 2.5GHz (old model) or even a 2.7 if I could find one. I guess I should wait another 6 months.

[OreoCookie]

Actually, the total bandwidth of a single dual-core cpu is less than two single-core cpus as they have to share the total bandwidth. So this would make the system slower.

On the other hand the new cpus feature 1 MB L2 cache per core instead of 512 KB and I am pretty sure the cores themselves were optimized compared to their predecessors. Also the northbridge sports faster interfaces than its predecessor, DDR2 RAM, PCIe, etc. which also improves performance.

So my guesstimate is a stalemate between a dual-core single-cpu system and the corresponding dual single-core system.

[darcybaston]

About box of my dual core 2GHz:

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/1811/picture11fh.png

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

The discussions on the new PMs are thin. Is no one impressed? I'm not greatly moved by this update.

I think the update is reasonably good, although I would have liked to see a single dual-core 2.5 model (like in my prediction above). The prices have dropped, and the specs have improved. And of course, that quad is very nice. I sure could use that 10 GHz of horsepower. H.264 encoding takes forever on my 2 GHz iMac.

I would consider waiting until the 7800 GT is available though (if I were in the market).

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Not really.

Heh. How close do you want it? Prediction:

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Nah... Something more like:

Single 2.0 GHz 970MP: $1899
Single 2.2 GHz 970MP: $2299
Single 2.5 GHz 970MP: $2699
Dual 2.5 GHz 970MP: $3299

ie. No more single-core G5s at all in Power Macs.

Reality:

Single 2.0 GHz 970MP: $1999
Single 2.3 GHz 970MP: $2499
Dual 2.7 GHz 970FX: $2799
Dual 2.5 GHz 970MP: $3299

[Simon]

Lateralus, you won the "scratch-somebody's-pretty-thin-ego-with-as-little-effort-as-possible" contest 2005. Congrats! And Wanker gets a $100 coupon for his neighorhood shrink.

[Lateralus]

[Eug Wanker]

Apple has posted the 7800 GT manual on their site now.

Originally Posted by Simon

Lateralus, you won the "scratch-somebody's-pretty-thin-ego-with-as-little-effort-as-possible" contest 2005. Congrats! And Wanker gets a $100 coupon for his neighorhood shrink.

Sweet! I could use a hundred bux. However, maybe I should use it for a bus ticket for your mom to go see you. It seems you need a hug or something...

[gangster]

I hope for another "cheap" g5, aka, a single 2.x model of the previous generation with improvements. i have already learned to "dream-on" with apple.

[darcybaston]

XBench 1.2 results on my stock 2GHz DC setup:

Code:
Results 102.17 

 System Info  

  Xbench Version  1.2
  System Version  10.4.2 (8E90)
  Physical RAM  512 MB
  Model  PowerMac11,2

  Processor  PowerPC G5x2 @ 2.00 GHz
   L1 Cache  64K (instruction), 32K (data)
   L2 Cache  1024K @ 2.00 GHz
   Bus Frequency  1 GHz

  Drive Type  WDC WD1600JS-41MVB1

 CPU Test 99.29 
  GCD Loop 93.24 4.91 Mops/sec
  Floating Point Basic 100.91 2.40 Gflop/sec
  vecLib FFT 103.95 3.43 Gflop/sec
  Floating Point Library 99.67 17.36 Mops/sec

 Thread Test 97.17 
  Computation 102.77 2.08 Mops/sec, 4 threads
  Lock Contention 92.15 3.96 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads

 Memory Test 105.63 

  System 99.02 
   Allocate 89.79 329.75 Kalloc/sec
   Fill 138.04 6711.58 MB/sec
   Copy 83.93 1733.46 MB/sec

  Stream 113.19 

   Copy 112.86 2331.18 MB/sec [G5]
   Scale 112.58 2325.93 MB/sec [G5]
   Add 113.87 2425.71 MB/sec [G5]
   Triad 113.43 2426.56 MB/sec [G5]

 Quartz Graphics Test 117.20 

  Line 99.29 6.61 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
  Rectangle 107.43 32.07 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
  Circle 107.13 8.73 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
  Bezier 106.21 2.68 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
  Text 220.63 13.80 Kchars/sec

 OpenGL Graphics Test 112.64 

  Spinning Squares 112.64 142.89 frames/sec

 User Interface Test 150.26 

  Elements 150.26 689.62 refresh/sec

 Disk Test 68.41 

  Sequential 93.26 

   Uncached Write 110.48 67.83 MB/sec [4K blocks]
   Uncached Write 101.16 57.24 MB/sec [256K blocks]
   Uncached Read 65.55 19.18 MB/sec [4K blocks]
   Uncached Read 114.95 57.77 MB/sec [256K blocks]

  Random 54.02 

   Uncached Write 20.46 2.17 MB/sec [4K blocks]
   Uncached Write 130.61 41.81 MB/sec [256K blocks]
   Uncached Read 97.06 0.69 MB/sec [4K blocks]
   Uncached Read 138.75 25.75 MB/sec [256K blocks]

[Eug Wanker]

Thanks, but I will point out that Xbench is useless for testing multiple CPUs. One good cross-platform test is Cinebench:

ftp://ftp3.maxon.net/pub/benchmarks/...ch_2003_g5.sit

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

However, maybe I should use it for a bus ticket for your mom to go see you. It seems you need a hug or something...

Dude, let it go.

Your prediction was wrong and nobody cared, but when you came here to get patted on the shoulder for it, Lateralus pointed out (with a -><- that is) that you were off. It's no big deal but you're making one out of it. Predictions are just guessing. Nobody knows for sure. It's a game and losing doesn't hurt. So, how about letting it go before it gets embarassing?

[JB72]

Forum fights are fun. And we've had that. But it's over now. Let's move on. It's all good.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Simon

Dude, let it go.

Your prediction was wrong and nobody cared, but when you came here to get patted on the shoulder for it, Lateralus pointed out (with a -><- that is) that you were off. It's no big deal but you're making one out of it. Predictions are just guessing. Nobody knows for sure. It's a game and losing doesn't hurt. So, how about letting it go before it gets embarassing?

Gimme a break. I was just responding (in jest) to your post which was nothing more than a personal attack. It'd be nice for a change if you would simply refute an on-topic post directly with another on-topic post, but old habits die hard I guess.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Thanks, but I will point out that Xbench is useless for testing multiple CPUs. One good cross-platform test is Cinebench:

ftp://ftp3.maxon.net/pub/benchmarks/...ch_2003_g5.sit

I posted this in the other thread, but it looks like the quad 2.5 should easily break 1000 in this bench. The last fastest Mac (dual 2.7) got less than 700.

Too bad about Apple's incomplete 64-bit support though. The x86 guys are seeing speed increases of 20-30%, just going from the 32-bit version to the 64-bit version of Cinebench, and those speed increases are real-world for Cinema 4D as well. According to Maxon, Tiger's 64-bit support is incomplete enough to make porting a 64-bit version too hard so they're just not going to bother. I don't blame them. I betcha 10.5 might just get full 64-bit support, and if so Maxon could just port to that instead and avoid all the headache.