[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I bought a house when I was young. I paid cash. I did a lot of work on it and sold at a very nice profit.

There ya go gents, there's the secret. Property is the fastest way to get yourselves into a desirable position.

Two years ago I made $20,000 in half an hour by flipping a house I'd just bought. Literally bought it at 12:30 and sold it by 1:00.

Now, imagine doing that kind of thing on a regular basis.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I said $300,000 because that's what a shack costs in this part of the country. The average price of a house, if the open house listings are any indication, is $750,000.

2 bed, 2 bath, town house, San Diego. $295,000.

Coldwell Banker #076021005

Work your way up.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

2 bed, 2 bath, town house, San Diego. $295,000.

Coldwell Banker #076021005

Work your way up.

I'll drop dead if that place has a roof. I lived in a 3 br place around here where the whole ceiling leaked whenever you flushed the toilet and the electricity was really dodgy (as in, don't use the microwave because it might explode). Sold for $400,000.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

There ya go gents, there's the secret. Property is the fastest way to get yourselves into a desirable position.

Two years ago I made $20,000 in half an hour by flipping a house I'd just bought. Literally bought it at 12:30 and sold it by 1:00.

Now, imagine doing that kind of thing on a regular basis.

Eh, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I know people who have gotten burned big on real estate investments. The market in the States went sour pretty fast. And, y'know, you have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spare before you can make that $20,000 in half an hour. A lot of people actually don't.

[Chuckit]

[Deleted]

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I'll drop dead if that place has a roof. I lived in a 3 br place around here where the whole ceiling leaked whenever you flushed the toilet and the electricity was really dodgy (as in, don't use the microwave because it might explode). Sold for $400,000.

8414 Summerdale Road, just north of Mira Mesa Boulevard. Which I suspect isn't exactly Wisteria Lane. But there ya go.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Eh, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I know people who have gotten burned big on real estate investments. The market in the States went sour pretty fast. And, y'know, you have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spare before you can make that $20,000 in half an hour. A lot of people actually don't.

If you know what you're doing, you can do it with a mortgage and next to no cash. Helps if your locale doesn't charge stamp duty (home sales tax or whatever it's called there), of course.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Ha ha... you're ignorance is showing sek.

Huh? I said that house prices vary greatly and that spending 300K on a house is easy in certain parts of the country. What the hell are you talking about?

[RobOnTheCape]

Here on Martha's Vineyard a house for 300k simply doesn't exist. 500k is a starter/fixer upper. Saw a listing the other day. 587 s/f 2 bedroom on 1/10th acre. Listed for 725k. The ad did mention that it came with the right to use the town beaches.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by RobOnTheCape 

Here on Martha's Vineyard a house for 300k simply doesn't exist. 500k is a starter/fixer upper. Saw a listing the other day. 587 s/f 2 bedroom on 1/10th acre. Listed for 725k. The ad did mention that it came with the right to use the town beaches.

So move. Sell your house and retire where it costs less to live.

Hmmm... live in a house that's far over priced and whose bubble is soon to burst and work until you dies... or live a life of ease in a nice house somewhere else.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Huh? I said that house prices vary greatly and that spending 300K on a house is easy in certain parts of the country. What the hell are you talking about?

No, you said:

Originally Posted by sek929

Because not everyone lives in eastcuttybumf**k Michigan.

That, is why I said your ignorance is showing. So, either you are ignorant about where I live, or you were trolling and trying to bait me. I'm open to other possibilities, but those two are the only ones I see.

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

So move. Sell your house and retire where it costs less to live.

Hmmm... live in a house that's far over priced and whose bubble is soon to burst and work until you dies... or live a life of ease in a nice house somewhere else.

Dude, it didn't sound like he was complaining, moreso poking fun at the have-nots from up on his second floor balcony overlooking whatever the eff martha's vineyard homes overlook.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

So move. Sell your house and retire where it costs less to live.

Hmmm... live in a house that's far over priced and whose bubble is soon to burst and work until you dies... or live a life of ease in a nice house somewhere else.

A nice house in a lousy place is not that nice, really. I can be more happier in a shack on the beach in California than in a mansion in the northeast.

[Kevin]

And ex of mine would use her Discover card to pay EVERYTHING she could. By the end of the month she'd have it all payed off. And the end of the year they would send her a check of like $600.

They hate people like her that has that kind of self control. You must not get any finance charges for late fees or whatever. You HAVE to pay your balance off before each month is over.

It was pretty neat.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

A nice house in a lousy place is not that nice, really. I can be more happier in a shack on the beach in California than in a mansion in the northeast.

Who said it's not a nice area?!?! You've obviously never been to Michigan.

You like water? Michigan is the place to be! But to each his own. Personally, I think California is over-rated. Been there, done that, using the t-shirt as a rag in my garage.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure 

Dude, it didn't sound like he was complaining, moreso poking fun at the have-nots from up on his second floor balcony overlooking whatever the eff martha's vineyard homes overlook.

To each his own. I like not being able to see my neighbors.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

And ex of mine would use her Discover card to pay EVERYTHING she could. By the end of the month she'd have it all payed off. And the end of the year they would send her a check of like $600.

They hate people like her that has that kind of self control. You must not get any finance charges for late fees or whatever. You HAVE to pay your balance off before each month is over.

It was pretty neat.

I applaud her self control. She is a VERY rare individual. Probably one in a million.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Who said it's not a nice area?!?! You've obviously never been to Michigan.

Actually, I lived in Detroit for several years. Of all the states I've lived in, that's the one I like the least. It was usually cold, always overcast and fairly dirty. Moving from there to St. Louis was such a great feeling. Maybe the Detroit area is just lousy or something, but it didn't make a very good impression.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

You like water? Michigan is the place to be!

It is true, I was once able to swim in a poorly drained parking lot from all the rain we got. But I actually prefer the lovely scenery of California beaches rather than the water itself.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

To each his own. I like not being able to see/hear/smell/feel my neighbors.

Fixed.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Actually, I lived in Detroit for several years. Of all the states I've lived in, that's the one I like the least. It was usually cold, always overcast and fairly dirty. Moving from there to St. Louis was such a great feeling. Maybe the Detroit area is just lousy or something, but it didn't make a very good impression.

It is true, I was once able to swim in a poorly drained parking lot from all the rain we got. But I actually prefer the lovely scenery of California beaches rather than the water itself.

So, you never left Detroit? You never went to St. Joseph, Charleviox, Petoskey, Grand Haven, or Mackinaw Island? What a sheltered existence. How sad.

EDIT: What about Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Fixed.

The best "Fixed™" evar!!!11!!!1

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

So, you never left Detroit? You never went to St. Joseph, Charleviox, Petoskey, Grand Haven, or Mackinaw Island? What a sheltered existence. How sad.

EDIT: What about Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes?

I agree 100%. The dunes are magical, magestic, and just a tiny bit of that part of the state. But let me add Lansing (and East Lansing, home of Michigan State University, which was for a long time Playboy's pick for the prettiest coeds anywhere), Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo, Bellaire, Traverse City, Cadilac, Sheboygan, Ishpheming, and who knows how many other lovely and interesting places. They built bombers around Willow Run during WWII, and you can still find some of the fields they flew them out of. ANYWHERE along the Detroit River other than Detroit, you can really get a feel for what international maritime commerce is; go to the park in Wyandotte and watch all the shipping that gets channeled through the Detroit River. Go around the Downriver Area (where I grew up) and see industry (definitely NOT all rusted out!), agriculture, science, education, museums, libraries, you name it!

pant....pant... Rant? You betcha! I GREW UP THERE, and the Detroit area is worth lots of weekend outings. Greenfield Village and the Henry Ford Museum! Frankenmouth! Holy cow! There's just so much there! And I have to say that your observations of the weather don't match either my memory or weather records-cold, wet and overcast? When? During July (and the Freedom Festival)? August, when you find out that a Northern state can beat the crap out of a bunch of Southern states for hot and muggy? In January, when it gets too dry to snow? You must have been VERY busy to get that idea. Uh oh; I'm winding up for another rant, aren't I. Sorry.

[RobOnTheCape]

"Dude, it didn't sound like he was complaining, moreso poking fun at the have-nots from up on his second floor balcony overlooking whatever the eff martha's vineyard homes overlook."

I had just noticed someone mentioning housing values, and how 300k is easy. I immediately thought of housing values here. No poking fun intended.

We just moved here last September and plan to take full advantage of that old bubble bursting. Saw one house listed at 1m last year just close with in the low 600s. That's a deal.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

That, is why I said your ignorance is showing. So, either you are ignorant about where I live, or you were trolling and trying to bait me. I'm open to other possibilities, but those two are the only ones I see.

Why would I troll you? I don't troll.

Michigan's housing prices are outrageously lower than anything on either coast. I'm not passing judgment on where you live I'm just saying that obviously 300K near you is a different story than 300K anywhere in Mass. that isn't currently on fire.

I also HIGHLY doubt that the bubble will burst anywhere near the Cape. Houses around here are desirable for location, and that will never change. I'm sure costs will drop, but a million dollar house in Hyannis will still be worth a million after any nationwide housing market collapse.

You say that a smart thing would be to move, but I think that is super-dumb idea. My dad built his house in Rochester for a little under 200K, bought the land when I was 5 (acre and a half) for 20 grand, and now the whole shebang is easily worth over 450K. I'm not sure what kind of turnaround you'd expect on your house but you'd be hard pressed to walk away with an extra 200 thousand dollars.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure 

Dude, it didn't sound like he was complaining, moreso poking fun at the have-nots from up on his second floor balcony overlooking whatever the eff martha's vineyard homes overlook.

They overlook the majestic open water of the Northern Atlantic Ocean.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Why would I troll you? I don't troll.

Then why did you say:

Originally Posted by sek929

Because not everyone lives in eastcuttybumf**k Michigan.

If it wasn't trolling, then it must be ignorance. You must have no idea what it is like in Michigan to make that kind of statement. Read ghporter's post above about Michigan. Detroit does not equal Michigan. As much as NYC is not NY.

Originally Posted by sek929

Michigan's housing prices are outrageously lower than anything on either coast. I'm not passing judgment on where you live I'm just saying that obviously 300K near you is a different story than 300K anywhere in Mass. that isn't currently on fire.

Yup. Good reason to move here.

Originally Posted by sek929

I also HIGHLY doubt that the bubble will burst anywhere near the Cape.

Hmm... it's happening on Martha's Vineyard.

Originally Posted by sek929

Houses around here are desirable for location, and that will never change. I'm sure costs will drop, but a million dollar house in Hyannis will still be worth a million after any nationwide housing market collapse.

We'll see.

Originally Posted by sek929

You say that a smart thing would be to move, but I think that is super-dumb idea. My dad built his house in Rochester for a little under 200K, bought the land when I was 5 (acre and a half) for 20 grand, and now the whole shebang is easily worth over 450K. I'm not sure what kind of turnaround you'd expect on your house but you'd be hard pressed to walk away with an extra 200 thousand dollars.

What about the people who buy a house today for $750,000 and next year it is worth $500,000? And what is the benefit of owning a house that costs $450,000 that anywhere else would cost $200,000? Higher property taxes? It's worth more when you die, so your kids inherit it?

Ok, let's say you do buy a house for $200k. It's value increases to $450k. Big whoop. But if you sold it, and moved to a location where the same house is $150k, you have $300k in your pocket! Invest wisely, and you can pretty much be your own boss in a few years. Freedom.

If you stayed in the house $450k, you'd be working more to pay the increased property taxes.

And the key term you use is "built his house". Isn't he a contractor or builder? Do you think everyone else has that ability?

You don't own a house do you? How are you going to ever scrape around the money for a $90,000 down payment on one of those $450,000 houses? I understand you are a talented and hard working man. But that is a lot of dough to save up for just so you can then have a $4,000/month house payment.

[sek929]

First off, those houses going for 750 that dropped back down to 500 were never worth 750. They were built cheap (read: crappy) and once people actually look at the house they realize this.

The houses I am referring to are the ones 100+ years old that will NEVER drop in value. You can think whatever you want but a million dollar house on the water in Marion isn't going to drop one cent if the market collapses.

I could move to where you live, yes, but then I would miss out on my usual pay, not to mention clientele consisting of millionaires. It's all relative. Moving to MI wouldn't mean anything different besides scenery. Yes, it's very expensive to live around here, but I also made $15/hr when I was 14.

Finally, eastcuttybumf**k refers to a place having a far out location and nothing about how nice or crummy it is. I am sure that where you live doesn't look like Detroit, I was just saying that a house in the Midwest is going to be cheaper than a coastal house of the same quality...nothing jerk like meant in my original post.

In the next 3-5 years I am going to be working in step with my father to do pretty much what you did...buy a place, live/work in it, and flip it for profit. Only around here finding a cheap enough house to do that on is becoming a hassle.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

And the key term you use is "built his house". Isn't he a contractor or builder? Do you think everyone else has that ability?

I don't mean to sound rude, but it sounds about as reasonable as you saying everybody has the ability to "invest wisely" (which apparently means upwards of $100,000 per year), buy hugely cheap real estate and retire at 35. I suppose if I worked really hard to reproduce the exact conditions of your life, I might possibly manage that, but I think becoming a builder would actually be a lot easier.

[sek929]

Building a house isn't hard, in fact, it's quite easy once you get the basics. It's the finish work, plumbing, electrical, cabinets, etc.. that are the hardest and most expensive part of building a house.

[Chuckit]

You really think cabinets are on the same level as electrical or plumbing work? I've build cabinets before. It wasn't very hard.

[sek929]

Installing cabinets is definitely not a job for amateurs. Most finish work is better left for real carpenters. I dunno what style of cabinet you made, but the ones I recently installed in our kitchen remod. job would have taken me a year to build...not to mention I haven't a clue how to go about baking on an enamel finish.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I don't mean to sound rude, but it sounds about as reasonable as you saying everybody has the ability to "invest wisely" (which apparently means upwards of $100,000 per year), buy hugely cheap real estate and retire at 35. I suppose if I worked really hard to reproduce the exact conditions of your life, I might possibly manage that, but I think becoming a builder would actually be a lot easier.

Huh? Where do you get the $100k number?

Buying cheap real estate is easy. Easier than buying over-priced real estate anyway.

And what are "the exact conditions of my life"? Self restraint? Self control in regards to spending? Motivation for working? I am about as average middle America as they come. If I can do it, any person willing to work can.

I know what kind of work builders do. My way was certainly easier.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

You really think cabinets are on the same level as electrical or plumbing work? I've build cabinets before. It wasn't very hard.

I think cabinets are a lot harder to do well than electrical and plumbing. And I have a successful woodworking business making fine furniture. Good cabinetry goes beyond fine woodworking. Not only are you making a piece of furniture, but you are having to take into account mistakes made by other people.

[Dakarʒ]

My caddie chauffeur informs me that a bank is a place where people put money that isn't properly invested.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Building a house isn't hard, in fact, it's quite easy once you get the basics. It's the finish work, plumbing, electrical, cabinets, etc.. that are the hardest and most expensive part of building a house.

Rough carpentry is not rocket science, but it is hard physical labor for the majority of the population.

And indeed, finish work can total 50% of the total bill of the build, and there is a tiny fraction of the population that can do it.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

My caddie chauffeur informs me that a bank is a place where people put money that isn't properly invested.

No, no, no... a bank is fine as long as it's not a "free" account. Why do you think he's your caddie chauffeur and not your grocery store chauffeur anyway?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Huh? Where do you get the $100k number?

Earlier in this thread, you gave a ballpark of your and your wife's salaries, both of which approached $100k, and which were collectively well over.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Buying cheap real estate is easy. Easier than buying over-priced real estate anyway.

Heh, that's true, but finding cheap real estate that doesn't completely suck is less easy.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

And what are "the exact conditions of my life"? Self restraint? Self control in regards to spending? Motivation for working? I am about as average middle America as they come. If I can do it, any person willing to work can.

Above-average salary, spouse with similarly above-average salary, willingness to live in a place that is cheap but which I found to be horrible and depressing. I'd have no trouble saving tons o' money if I made twice as much as most people and lived in a place with an absurdly low cost of living either. With my pay, I'm not going to retire in my 30s even if I save every single penny.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Earlier in this thread, you gave a ballpark of your and your wife's salaries, both of which approached $100k, and which were collectively well over.

That was only in the last few years. And that is only the case because I worked so hard when I was younger.

For the most part, I was making less than $20k up until 1997.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Heh, that's true, but finding cheap real estate that doesn't completely suck is less easy.

Not true at all.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Above-average salary, spouse with similarly above-average salary,

[See above comment]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

willingness to live in a place that is cheap but which I found to be horrible and depressing.

I see you are selectively ignoring my (and ghporter's) posts. W did you ignore them?

I'd never live near Detroit either. You;d have to be a complete moran to even consider Detroit as a place of residence. Why did you ever?

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I'd have no trouble saving tons o' money if I made twice as much as most people and lived in a place with an absurdly low cost of living either. With my pay, I'm not going to retire in my 30s even if I save every single penny.

Get back to work then. I think I'll plan where I will be vacationing. I don't have to plan the "when" because I can go anytime I want.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

My caddie chauffeur informs me that a bank is a place where people put money that isn't properly invested.

Wait. You actually let the help talk to you over there?

[Dakarʒ]

I ask him questions about the common man when it suits me.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I ask him questions about the common man when it suits me.

Ah. That would explain it then. I was getting visions of the help getting above their station and actually conversing. Nearly gave me a coronary, that.

[Railroader]

Oh you guys. Such kidders.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Ah. That would explain it then. I was getting visions of the help getting above their station and actually conversing. Nearly gave me a coronary, that.

That'd be as bad as eye contact with a woman during sex.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

That was only in the last few years. And that is only the case because I worked so hard when I was younger.

For the most part, I was making less than $20k up until 1997.

And coincidentally, you retired several years after that point. Seriously, how are you not making the connection between your salary and the fact that you were able to retire earlier than people who make less? People who make $600,000 a year can retire even earlier, but I don't see them banging on about how a 5% interest rate savings account can take anybody to riches.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I see you are selectively ignoring my (and ghporter's) posts. W did you ignore them?

I'm not sure what to say. You two like Michigan. My experience was different. Different strokes for different folks, but I hated it. He's right that I omitted the hellish summers, but I'm not sure if that really negates anything I said.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I'd never live near Detroit either. You;d have to be a complete moran to even consider Detroit as a place of residence. Why did you ever?

I was a kid and that was where my father worked at the time.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Get back to work then. I think I'll plan where I will be vacationing. I don't have to plan the "when" because I can go anytime I want.

My point is just that your "Oh, anybody can do it" is about as reasonable as "Oh, anybody can build a house." I don't see why you're getting so rude about it. Does it somehow hurt your pride to think that somebody else might work hard and save a lot and still not be able to achieve what you did? I don't begrudge you your good fortune. I'm glad you have a good life. I just don't like having people suggest I'm lazy and wasteful just because I'm not rich.

And yes, I think I will get back to work. I'm done eating now.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Seriously, how are you not making the connection between your salary and the fact that you were able to retire earlier than people who make less?

I've been wondering this since the last time when had a thread like this.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Oh you guys. Such kidders.

Only half kidding with that one.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

And coincidentally, you retired several years after that point. Seriously, how are you not making the connection between your salary and the fact that you were able to retire earlier than people who make less?

How are you not making the connection that hard work led to a good paying job. Do you know anyone else who was able to retire after making a about $150,000/yr. for less than eight years?

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

People who make $600,000 a year can retire even earlier, but I don't see them banging on about how a 5% interest rate savings account can take anybody to riches.

Some how you just aren't getting it. It's not about a 5% interest savings account.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I'm not sure what to say. You two like Michigan. My experience was different. Different strokes for different folks, but I hated it. He's right that I omitted the hellish summers, but I'm not sure if that really negates anything I said.

You never left Detroit! Would you say you knew what the entire state of New York was like if you never left New York City.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I was a kid and that was where my father worked at the time.

And... ?

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

My point is just that your "Oh, anybody can do it" is about as reasonable as "Oh, anybody can build a house." I don't see why you're getting so rude about it. Does it somehow hurt your pride to think that somebody else might work hard and save a lot and still not be able to achieve what you did? I don't begrudge you your good fortune. I'm glad you have a good life. I just don't like having people suggest I'm lazy and wasteful just because I'm not rich.

Anybody could build a house! You don't need very many tools. And the average carpenter is certainly not a genius of some kind. They simply work hard and with patience.

It certainly doesn't hurt my pride. I just know that they had a lack of self control. I feel sorry for them.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

And yes, I think I will get back to work. I'm done eating now.

Time to put more into that SS fund you'll probably never draw from.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I've been wondering this since the last time when had a thread like this.

Hard work, take advantage of opportunities, spend as little as possible, and save, save, save. It is a very simple equation.

An education helps. Also knowing the job market and filling spots that pay well. You may not like the work, but having the job of your dreams is still having a job. I always had the dream of being an artist, but I know that artists specializing in oil painting make enough to eat dog food for dinner after buying it on a credit card. Right now you can make good money being a nurse. I would hate the job, but it pays very well.

[Angus_D]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Right now you can make good money being a nurse. I would hate the job, but it pays very well.

rofl.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Right now you can make good money being a nurse. I would hate the job, but it pays very well.

Originally Posted by Angus_D 

rofl.

I don't get it. Nursing is a pretty good-paying profession, and nurses are in really high demand. My wife is one. And, like Railroader, I would hate that job, mostly because it focuses on disease and disability, rather than restoration of health and ability. This is one major reason I'm currently almost half way through a graduate program in occupational therapy. OTs focus on independence and ability, not disease and disability. Oh, and the current market's pay ain't bad either.

[Angus_D]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I don't get it. Nursing is a pretty good-paying profession, and nurses are in really high demand.

Not in London, it isn't.