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The Official MacNN COVID-19 Thread (Page 23)
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subego
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Jul 8, 2021, 11:55 AM
 
Made the mistake of calling it the “Delta Quadrant”.

Now it’s stuck.
     
ghporter
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Jul 8, 2021, 02:07 PM
 
Ouch. That’s going to last a while.

It seems that a lot of people are getting a refresher in the Greek alphabet lately. Is Epsilon far from emergence? Let’s ask the mouth-breathing, mask-hating, antivax virus deniers next week. There are at least a few of them around here, though the bigger issue seems to be dining inside restaurants and wearing masks SO wrong they just look stupid.

At PT Tuesday my therapist offered me a plain procedure mask (the disposable kind that you couldn’t buy for $20 each a year ago) to replace my epic Captain America fabric mask because he was working my tail hard. Some people take it seriously, and that’s good to know.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
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Jul 8, 2021, 02:45 PM
 
Epsilon didn’t kill himself.
     
reader50
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Jul 8, 2021, 02:53 PM
 
For a fun time with the mouth breathers, no-mask types. Since they know everything, ask if they've heard any news. About if Schrödinger's cat survived the science experiment.

Since they probably can't spell Schrödinger, they'll have a hard time looking it up. At least both of their likely answers will be right (and wrong).
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 15, 2021, 09:37 PM
 
I got my second dose of Moderna on Wednesday, and sure enough it put me out on Thursday with a head ache and muscle pain. One day later and I am fine, with the exception of a swollen lymph node and that the tissue near the injection site is warm to the touch. I’m so happy I’m vaccinated and can’t wait to have full protection in about two weeks’ time.
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ghporter
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Jul 16, 2021, 12:27 PM
 
Your experience was a little more unpleasant than mine for the second shot. But like you, I was fine the next day.

Around here, a lot of establishments have signs that say “fully vaccinated customers do not need to wear masks.” Bah. I don’t trust a LOT of people to be honest about that, and especially since I’m still about two weeks from finishing a tedious (and not terribly fun or convenient) 24/7 IV antibiotic regimen, I wear a mask everywhere anyway. But at least I’m protected in situations where I might be exposed to something new…

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 16, 2021, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Your experience was a little more unpleasant than mine for the second shot. But like you, I was fine the next day.
My brother had it worse, I think it took him three days to recover. I’m quite lucky that I am in a rest week (sports-wise), so I didn’t do strenuous activity before and could easily skip my workout the day after the vaccination. Plus, I am recovered in time for my race this weekend. Woot.
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Around here, a lot of establishments have signs that say “fully vaccinated customers do not need to wear masks.” Bah. I don’t trust a LOT of people to be honest about that, […]
Plus, the feeling of safety is also false: vaccines protect against becoming seriously ill from Covid-19, including all known variants. But vaccines are significantly less effective when it comes to protecting against infections from especially the delta variant. That means even vaccinated people should wear masks to prevent infections and especially hospitalizations.

Also, it is not true that anyone who wants to get vaccinated can. My wife is pregnant, for example, so even though she could have scheduled an appointment, none of the vaccines is currently approved to be given to pregnant women.
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
[…] and especially since I’m still about two weeks from finishing a tedious (and not terribly fun or convenient) 24/7 IV antibiotic regimen, I wear a mask everywhere anyway. But at least I’m protected in situations where I might be exposed to something new…
I think the last good reason is to protect people who are not and/or cannot be vaccinated by wearing a mask. Mask wearing >> business restrictions, vaccinations >> lockdown.
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The Final Shortcut
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Jul 19, 2021, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Plus, the feeling of safety is also false: vaccines protect against becoming seriously ill from Covid-19, including all known variants. But vaccines are significantly less effective when it comes to protecting against infections from especially the delta variant. That means even vaccinated people should wear masks to prevent infections and especially hospitalizations.
I’ve been under the impression that two-shot vaccines such as P/M in particular appear to be quite effective against delta. Is that not the case?

Also, it is not true that anyone who wants to get vaccinated can. My wife is pregnant, for example, so even though she could have scheduled an appointment, none of the vaccines is currently approved to be given to pregnant women.
Is that a regional thing? As far as I’m aware they’re giving vaccines to preggers in Canada, although I’m sure there are specific pregnancy risk factors.
     
ghporter
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Jul 20, 2021, 12:22 PM
 
It seems that the better/two shot vaccines are less effective at preventing the delta variant than preventing the original virus. However, evidence shows that most people who ARE vaccinated and still get the virus, even delta, don’t get as sick, nor require hospitalization as frequently.

So while they aren’t perfect, vaccinations DO help immensely. Conversely, 99+% of people getting hospitalized and dying from COVID at this point in time are not vaccinated at all. They are simply walking virus mutation labs, spreading new variants with every breath. Please note that the sarcasm is real; not being vaccinated ON PURPOSE, with all we know right now isn’t just stupid, it’s dangerous.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 20, 2021, 07:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Shortcut View Post
I’ve been under the impression that two-shot vaccines such as P/M in particular appear to be quite effective against delta. Is that not the case?
When people say vaccines are/aren’t effective against the delta variant, they usually talk about different risks. Getting the vaccine will definitely protect you, but probably you need a refresher that has been tailored against the delta (and other variants) to protect others as well. Vaccines are highly effective (90+ %) protecting against death and serious cases of Covid-19. But they are moderately effective (about 60 %) against preventing infections. The best data comes AFAIK from Israel (Pfizer only since they only used that vaccine) and Great Britain for a variety of vaccines; the numbers vary a little across the different vaccines, but are all consistent.

That means vaccinated people contribute to spreading the delta variant, exposing unvaccinated and people with compromised immune system to risk. Hence, the recommendation that even vaccinated people should wear masks indoors if you are in an area where the delta variant is prevalent.
Originally Posted by The Final Shortcut View Post
Is that a regional thing? As far as I’m aware they’re giving vaccines to preggers in Canada, although I’m sure there are specific pregnancy risk factors.
You are right, it seems that in US pregnant women can get vaccinated. Globally, the situation seems more complicated. I reckon I did too much navel gazing, the German body in charge of making recommendations when it comes to vaccines is quite conservative. And I just surprised my wife that she is able to get vaccinated (in Japan), at least according to the page by John Hopkins University that I just linked to.

Personally, I’m not worried about the efficacy or severe side effects, I was just under the impression that the approval for pregnant women was still ways off. Thanks for making me double check.
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OreoCookie
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Jul 20, 2021, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
It seems that the better/two shot vaccines are less effective at preventing the delta variant than preventing the original virus. However, evidence shows that most people who ARE vaccinated and still get the virus, even delta, don’t get as sick, nor require hospitalization as frequently.
Yes. AFAIK some vaccinated people still need to be hospitalized, but almost all of the patients with severe and terminal cases have not been vaccinated.
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
So while they aren’t perfect, vaccinations DO help immensely.
YES!
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Conversely, 99+% of people getting hospitalized and dying from COVID at this point in time are not vaccinated at all. They are simply walking virus mutation labs, spreading new variants with every breath. Please note that the sarcasm is real; not being vaccinated ON PURPOSE, with all we know right now isn’t just stupid, it’s dangerous.
I just have sympathy for people who cannot get vaccinated (e. g. currently children below the age of 12).
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Thorzdad  (op)
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Jul 22, 2021, 01:16 PM
 
     
ghporter
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Jul 22, 2021, 04:06 PM
 
Yeah. And the amazing thing is there still aren’t enormous lines for “get me that shot!!!”. I don’t get it.

I am fully vaccinated, but I don’t trust just about anyone I don’t really personally know, so I mask up all the time. The medical facilities I spend too much time in lately all require masks - note that they’re DoD facilities, so our revered Governor’s opinions don’t have any impact on them.

On that note, the Department of Defense has given military commanders authority to question a Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine’s vaccination status if said person is not wearing a mask. Since every single thing a member of the military is constrained in one way or another, this decision falls right in line with the rest of a service member’s life. And knowing that someone can ORDER you to show that you’re vaccinated or “put that damn mask on now!” should make a bunch of people reassess how they demonstrate their individuality.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jul 22, 2021, 05:28 PM
 
I read a story yesterday about a nurse in Alabama (#50 in state vaccination status) who has had to deal with young people hospitalized with COVID and begging her to give them the vaccination. She’s repeatedly had to break the news to them that it was too late for any vaccine to help them.
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 22, 2021, 09:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Yeah. And the amazing thing is there still aren’t enormous lines for “get me that shot!!!”. I don’t get it.
Me neither. I was ecstatic when I heard that it did not even take a year for a vaccine to come to market and got vaccinated the first chance I got. I’m less than a week away from the vaccine taking full effect. This is really something that is quite unique about the US, that even vaccinations have become a partisan issue.
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I am fully vaccinated, but I don’t trust just about anyone I don’t really personally know, so I mask up all the time.
Plus, people who don’t know that you are vaccinated but they themselves can’t get vaccinated feel more at ease.
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
And knowing that someone can ORDER you to show that you’re vaccinated or “put that damn mask on now!” should make a bunch of people reassess how they demonstrate their individuality.
It’s a bit of a mystery why people who feel strongly about their individuality would join the military in the first place, though.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
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Jul 22, 2021, 10:17 PM
 
I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was told many people in the US military believe they should never volunteer for something.

Since the vaccine is voluntary, it’s “no thank you sir”.
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 22, 2021, 10:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was told many people in the US military believe they should never volunteer for something.
I’m not quite sure I understand your point. People in the US military have already volunteered to serve in the military, no? And a vaccine is different from volunteering to go on a dangerous mission.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
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Jul 22, 2021, 11:54 PM
 
Another way of putting “never volunteer” is “never do anything the military isn’t forcing me to do”. To be fair, one of the ways the military gets away with shady shit is asking for volunteers, but my guess is for most it’s a way to vent their need to assert independence.

Not everybody feels the need to do that obviously.
     
ghporter
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Jul 23, 2021, 11:54 AM
 
I wasn’t asked if I wanted the Hepatitis A or B vaccines; they just gave them to me. I don’t understand why there’s any choice in the military about this particular vaccine.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
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Jul 23, 2021, 12:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I wasn’t asked if I wanted the Hepatitis A or B vaccines; they just gave them to me. I don’t understand why there’s any choice in the military about this particular vaccine.
My understanding is a vaccine needs full FDA approval before the military can force personnel to take it.

The COVID vaccines were fast-tracked, so they don’t have full FDA approval yet.
     
reader50
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Jul 23, 2021, 12:39 PM
 
Pfizer has filed for full approval. However, a spokesman says they're not expecting it before January 2022.

Last I heard, Moderna was talking about filing for full approval, but hadn't actually done so.
     
ghporter
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Yesterday, 05:25 PM
 
According to Duke’s Law School, “emergency use” vaccines require individual “informed consent,” which individuals can withhold. The President can determine that it is in “the national interest” to waive the informed consent requirement for such vaccines. He hasn’t done that yet.

However, there’s an awful lot of content in having someone senior to you, especially your commander, ask a pointed question about something like “are you vaccinated?”

It’s all on the up and up too. If you aren’t vaccinated, you may not be ready to deploy with your unit, which impacts unit readiness - and reflects on your entire chain of command. So having your commander ask you - maybe frequently - if you have been vaccinated is a valid question to ask. Because your commander is probably having to report to his or her commander (all the way up the chain) about who is and isn’t vaccinated

And your commander isn’t “ordering” you to do anything. But it gets to be a hassle to tell the person who decides if you get promoted or not, or even if you get to stay in the military at all, “not yet sir” over and over. I feel that this will be a less than subtle inducement for those who just didn’t want to bother with the shot to get it over with.

And those who feel “mah rahts” are an issue, a bit of education about how important it is for everyone in the unit to be available to serve should either adjust their attitude, or reveal closet Trumpists - who can then be questioned about whether or not they really understood that oath they swore when they signed up.

Frankly, a whole lot of people who only enlisted “for the educational benefits” had that attitude altered in 1990 when it became clear that they WOULD go to Saudi to support liberating Kuwait.

If you signed up, you signed up for the whole thing, not just education, medical, or even basic pay. And your enlistment contract includes agreeing to just about any requirement you can physically perform. Fitness tests; vaccinations against typhoid, smallpox, “whoknowswhat-itis”; showing up in uniform and ready to work whenever called on; and much much more are part of the normal - and almost universally understood - military life.

And there’s a quality of “suck it up, Soldier” that’s part of the culture. You don’t want the shot? Why not? That 110 pound female Sergeant First Class got her shots when they were first available, so why can’t you? Honestly, this 62 year old disabled vet got his shots ASAP, and so did his retired nurse wife of a similar age. Big bad Jarhead or Grunt can’t put up with a little needle? Wahhh; I cry huge tears for you. Yeah, I can get that way, especially about something as important as this.

Finally, whether the virus was created or just emerged, there are adversaries who could benefit from a less-than-ready US Military. All it would take would be to have them interact with a local who (without our guys knowing it) was exposed to a new and horrible variant; that could decimate our forces without our enemies firing a shot.

So it’s valid for any commander to keep tabs on who isn’t vaccinated, even if they can’t order individuals to receive the shot. And it’s valid for those of us who are already vaccinated to be less than cordial or friendly to a military person who can’t be bothered.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
 
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