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CatOne · Sep 2, 2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Why do you say that?

Heh. That statement MUST be true. Think about it

Musti · Sep 2, 2003, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by CatOne:
Heh. That statement MUST be true. Think about it

Lol! Who needs Dilbert when we have the forums?

King Bob On The Cob · Sep 2, 2003, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Why do you say that?

Because 53 > 49

- - e r i k - - · Sep 3, 2003, 01:46 AM

2 pages and no useful information about 7b53. Oh well, guess I'll just have to find out for myself then...

Moonray · Sep 3, 2003, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Why do you say that?

I have that info from someone who can spell Cupertino, so I think it's reliable.

-

cSurfr · Sep 3, 2003, 04:07 AM

I can spell cupertino, so what I say must be gospel

geekwagon · Sep 3, 2003, 05:46 AM

Has anyone else noticed that Quartz performance is worse in these latest builds than Jaguar? It is fairly obvious to me.. If there is something on the screen that is animated (pulsing button, progress bar, etc) the whole GUI gets really sluggish. I tested it out by starting a Quicktime movie while rapidly moving a single 20% transparent terminal window over it. The movie basically stopped and got all juddery. When I do the same thing in Jaguar it doesn't miss a beat.

I thought maybe QE wasn't working correctly so I started up Quartz Debug out of the devtools and disabled QE. That made it much much worse so obviously that is still helping.

I'm not complaining because I know that this isn't a released product. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed the same thing or maybe it is just my config. It's crazy because in almost every other respect (general gui responsiveness, opening new windows, etc) Panther is 3x faster than Jaguar.

Powermac 2x1.25 btw.

Macnor · Sep 3, 2003, 06:10 AM

Yes, I also think quartz extreme works less well in the latest builds. I should also note that panther only accepts apple supplied graphic cards for quartz extreme acceleration. My retail geforce 4mx agp card for exemple is not supported by quartz extreme even though it has 32mb of memory, that makes my g4 slower than my old pismo when it comes to graphics.

G4 400-->1.2giga

Peabo · Sep 3, 2003, 10:51 AM

Not much is new with the OS itself, but the installation is much much nicer! The intro movie is now played in a shadowed-rectangle in the centre of the screen (the background is gray). Also, when progressing from one screen to the next, the window swings round like a cube (like in fast user switching). It all feels very polished.

The fact that I cant tell the difference between 7B44 and 7B53 (apart from the installation screens) would lead me to believe that 10.3 is near GM and they are just fine tuning now.

P.S. there was a lovely feature a few builds ago (I think 7B39) where you could select "Show Hidden Files" from the Finder advanced prefs. This seems to be gone now T_T

Pale Rider · Sep 3, 2003, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Anand:
If we are getting close to the FC stage, I am dissapointed. The ability to connect to window s machines from the finder browser is crippeled. And now Sharity won't work. This sucks! Apple better have this fixed because it is still broken in 7B49.

Ditto. Disappearing SMB mount points are very frustrating.

Peabo · Sep 3, 2003, 11:14 AM

They added new icons for EXE and invisible UNIX files in 7B44, but they seem to have removed the UNIX ones in 7B53 :/ Maybe they are revising them.

I thought this was a nice feature though; blank, dog-eared pages look boring

KidRed · Sep 3, 2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by geekwagon:
Has anyone else noticed that Quartz performance is worse in these latest builds than Jaguar? It is fairly obvious to me.. If there is something on the screen that is animated (pulsing button, progress bar, etc) the whole GUI gets really sluggish. I tested it out by starting a Quicktime movie while rapidly moving a single 20% transparent terminal window over it. The movie basically stopped and got all juddery. When I do the same thing in Jaguar it doesn't miss a beat.

I thought maybe QE wasn't working correctly so I started up Quartz Debug out of the devtools and disabled QE. That made it much much worse so obviously that is still helping.

I'm not complaining because I know that this isn't a released product. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed the same thing or maybe it is just my config. It's crazy because in almost every other respect (general gui responsiveness, opening new windows, etc) Panther is 3x faster than Jaguar.

Powermac 2x1.25 btw.

Let me guess, you chose the 'upgrade' option when you installed this beta release

cowerd · Sep 3, 2003, 12:35 PM

I guess we'll have to live without the Internet pref pane from now on. You now have to open Apple's app to choose a browser and email client etc.

Still living with Apple's def. of UI enhancements. Don't even get me started on Disk Copy/Disk Utility, or Apple's endless appetite for changing UI dongle's.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 3, 2003, 01:08 PM

I'd really like to hear your take on Disk Copy / Disk Utility. Furthermore I'd love to hear what a UI-dongle is...

tRr · Sep 3, 2003, 01:43 PM

In 7B53 the Apple-Tab screen has been slightly redone. Now the selected application has another box around it sort of like an icon selected in the Finder. Hiding apps works again when you press Apple-H with it open.

Calculator now remembers recent conversions even when you quit it.

Any thats about it in my fast time dealing with it

alex_kac · Sep 3, 2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by cowerd:
I guess we'll have to live without the Internet pref pane from now on. You now have to open Apple's app to choose a browser and email client etc.

Still living with Apple's def. of UI enhancements. Don't even get me started on Disk Copy/Disk Utility, or Apple's endless appetite for changing UI dongle's.

Agreed with the pref pane...but what's wrong with Disk Copy/Disk Utility merging? Its awesome. I really love the new app. MUCH nicer than before and much simpler.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 3, 2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by z0ne81:
P.S. there was a lovely feature a few builds ago (I think 7B39) where you could select "Show Hidden Files" from the Finder advanced prefs. This seems to be gone now T_T

No, it's under the Advanced tab...

Art Vandelay · Sep 3, 2003, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
No, it's under the Advanced tab...

Not in 7B53.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 3, 2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Art Vandelay:
Not in 7B53.

Ah... it's in international. I switched to english, and you're right. It's gone. Switch to norwegian and it's there...

- - e r i k - - · Sep 3, 2003, 03:06 PM

Selecting Norwegian is pretty useless. The registration information is US-only. And even though I tried to fake a US phone number it nagged that you use a ten digit phone number although I could only enter eight in the box. Mail were totally borked in this build as well, but not as much as in earlier builds.

I don't mind running english much though...

Stradlater · Sep 3, 2003, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
...it nagged that you use a ten digit phone number although I could only enter eight in the box...

US phone numbers have three numbers in the first field (area code) and seven numbers in the second (it allows for eight characters because of the dash, for example: XXX-XXXX).

Synotic · Sep 3, 2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by cowerd:
I guess we'll have to live without the Internet pref pane from now on. You now have to open Apple's app to choose a browser and email client etc.

Still living with Apple's def. of UI enhancements. Don't even get me started on Disk Copy/Disk Utility, or Apple's endless appetite for changing UI dongle's.

Is it just me or is the Login Items pane not there?

Has it moved or has this been rectified?

Webscreamer · Sep 3, 2003, 04:36 PM

Here is a list of bugs and just stupid stuff I found in Panther 7B53 that I think should be fixed before release. Sorry if they are note all new features added in this build.

I would like to keep updating this list with every build we get... Hopefully by the time 10.3 GM arrives we will not need this list at all.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Finder Preferences window does not remember where you last had it.

- One of the largest bugs now that *bug* me ;p, is Apple had changed Sheets now, and the Finder sheets(Like when you want to customize the Toolbar, or use "Go to Folder...")go straight up and do NOT match the other ones. Also, they must fix what it look like when the Sheets fly out...

Also the sheets come out of the wrong place. They should fly out from under the top "bar".

In other Applications...
http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...top_sheets.jpg

In Finder...
http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...one_sheets.jpg

- In the Dock, when a Application is already hidden and you control click on an Application in the Dock, the menu still says "Hide" when it should say "Show", even though you just have to click the icon to show. Oh well, BUT, should be fixed!

http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...ady_hidden.jpg

- In the Finder Prefrences you can turn off all of the HDs, CDs, Network, and stuff. But then in the Finder Sidebar, all you get is a line. Shouldn't this line disappear if nothing is above it?

http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...ld_be_gone.jpg

- In Disk Copy in Jaguar, we got a menu when we control clicked on the Dock icon with features. In Disk Utilities in 10.3, we lost those features.

http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...e_diskcopy.jpg

- Quicktime buttons were redone in 10.3, but the buttons do not match yet. The X - + are too black.

http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...ttons_diff.jpg

- This is my biggest fear. Some apps are fixed now, abut others are not...weird. BUT, in save panels for applications if you have an Application(such as Mail) in it, you can save into Mail. But it is in the package Contents. This will really scare people who are new users...or even me when i can't find my stuff if I click the wrong button! Yikes!!!!!!!!

http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/..._into_apps.jpg

- Some Utilities(Like Directory Services, NetInfo Manager, ODBC Administrator) and apps still have the old unlock and lock icons. Should be replaced to match the new ones.

http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...old_unlock.jpg

- In the DVD Player app, the AppleScript menu logo has the old fashion one, now replaced in all other apps with a new gray one.

http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/..._menu_icon.jpg

- When you change to graphite theme, the Stop-Light buttons stay multi-colored and not graphite. This has been around for a long long time.

http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...s_graphite.jpg

- Middle Minimize button is ugly now in all apps in the Graphite theme. Ugly close button when mouse down.

http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...button_off.jpg

and...
http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...utton_down.jpg

Horsepoo!!! · Sep 3, 2003, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Webscreamer:

- One of the largest bugs now that *bug* me ;p, is Apple had changed Sheets now, and the Finder sheets(Like when you want to customize the Toolbar, or use "Go to Folder...")go straight up and do NOT match the other ones. Also, they must fix what it look like when the Sheets fly out...

It's not a bug per se...it's another one of those Carbon/Cocoa behavior/look differences.

Also the sheets come out of the wrong place. They should fly out from under the top "bar".

Nope...the sheet coming down out of the titlebar in Safari is because Safari doesn't have an NSToolbar.

cowerd · Sep 3, 2003, 05:17 PM

but what's wrong with Disk Copy/Disk Utility merging? Its awesome. I really love the new app. MUCH nicer than before and much simpler.

Boot into Jaguar. Launch Disk Copy. Click-hold on the Disk Copy icon in the Dock.

Now do the same for Disk Utility in Panther. And also not much simpler. Should a person have to launch an app that can also erase a HD to burn a CD/DVD or make a disk image?

Login Items

Log in itmes in now in the Accounts pref pane. Click on one of Apple new and oh so inconsistent widgets (is it flat , is it 3D, is it Thursday?) to get there.

Nope...the sheet coming down out of the titlebar in Safari is because Safari doesn't have an NSToolbar.

No the sheet comes out of hole that suddenly appears in the Title Bar. Its known as forcing the design.

cybergoober · Sep 3, 2003, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Webscreamer:
...- When you change to graphite theme, the Stop-Light buttons stay multi-colored and not graphite. This has been around for a long long time.

http://www.webscreamer.com/personal/...s_graphite.jpg...

Strange. They look graphite here:

parsec_kadets · Sep 3, 2003, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Why do you say that?

I think he says that because the number increased. It's 53, not 49. Kinda like saying "Today we're closer to tomorrow than we were yesterday."

BuonRotto · Sep 3, 2003, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by cowerd:
Should a person have to launch an app that can also erase a HD to burn a CD/DVD or make a disk image?

Well, they can always burn from the finder or other app.

Has Apple made its burning framework available to developers in Panther? I thought I heard that somewhere.

These cosmetic inconsistencies are lowest priority, and have been around for a few builds now. Graphic touches have always been cleaned up last, though I don't hold out hope for the Finder's sheets to be consistent. If that's where the builds are in terms of their polish, then that's a Good Thing�.

Webscreamer · Sep 3, 2003, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by cowerd:
Boot into Jaguar. Launch Disk Copy. Click-hold on the Disk Copy icon in the Dock.

Now do the same for Disk Utility in Panther. And also not much simpler. Should a person have to launch an app that can also erase a HD to burn a CD/DVD or make a disk image?

I think they should redo the icon for Disk Utility now too... kinda fugly. I think.

OwlBoy · Sep 3, 2003, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by cowerd:
Should a person have to launch an app that can also erase a HD to burn a CD/DVD or make a disk image?

I can't erase mine...

SMacTech · Sep 3, 2003, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by cybergoober:
Strange. They look graphite here:

I have that problem too. It is not unique to webscreamer.

d0ubled0wn · Sep 3, 2003, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by OwlBoy:
I can't erase mine...
http://www.owlboy.com/disk_utility.jpg

eh... OS X is smart enough not to erase the boot partition. If you booted from a CD you could. Or if you had partitions or another HD you could erase those too.

gorickey · Sep 3, 2003, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by OwlBoy:
I can't erase mine...

Of course you can't erase your start-up drive when you are boot from it....

Stradlater · Sep 3, 2003, 08:57 PM

you can launch diskutility from a mac os x install disk. it's in the apple menu after you restart to install.

Webscreamer · Sep 3, 2003, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by OwlBoy:
I can't erase mine...

Well, no... you can't erase your boot volume. But if you had another HD you could.

Webscreamer · Sep 3, 2003, 09:40 PM

Another "bug" is when you command + tab(they changed the look in 7B53) the text is now hard to read with stuff in the background.

Stradlater · Sep 3, 2003, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by Webscreamer:
Well, no... you can't erase your boot volume. But if you had another HD you could.

You don't need another HD.

1. Insert OS X Install CD (Jaguar, Panther, et cetera)
2. Open "Install Mac OS X"
3. Click "Restart"
4. Wait for Installer.app to load
5. Apple Menu:Open DiskUtility...
6. Now you can erase your boot volume! (yay!)

All there is to it!

vmpaul · Sep 3, 2003, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by cSurfr:
I can spell cupertino, so what I say must be gospel

Hey, I LIVE in Cupertino. I must be Holy.

Stradlater · Sep 3, 2003, 09:48 PM

And if you're installing fresh, why erase your HD that way when you can just choose "Erase and Install" among the "Update System" and "Archive and Install" options?

SMacTech · Sep 3, 2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by cybergoober:
Strange. They look graphite here:

I noticed that when the Finder quits and is restarted then all was well with the widgets. Maybe the testers are so used to the Finder restarting, they haven't noticed the bug yet! < ya sure >

geekwagon · Sep 3, 2003, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by KidRed:
Let me guess, you chose the 'upgrade' option when you installed this beta release

Nope, not this time. If you upgrade, you miss out on the snazzy new out-of-box experience

I just noticed that the progress bar in iSync is one of the worst offenders for causing this slowdown.

d0ubled0wn · Sep 3, 2003, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by geekwagon:
Has anyone else noticed that Quartz performance is worse in these latest builds than Jaguar? It is fairly obvious to me.. If there is something on the screen that is animated (pulsing button, progress bar, etc) the whole GUI gets really sluggish. I tested it out by starting a Quicktime movie while rapidly moving a single 20% transparent terminal window over it. The movie basically stopped and got all juddery. When I do the same thing in Jaguar it doesn't miss a beat.

I am experiencing the same thing. Quartz (or something) definitely needs tweaking.

Other things that still need fixing as of 7b53:
� DVD menus in DVD player are not showing up, just a black screen. Video playback is fine however.
� In System Prefs -> Desktop, clicking between the different category folders for desktop pictures results in unexpected quit.
� I have a 2nd hard drive; I should not be able to "eject" the hard drive from the finder (by clicking the eject button.) How do I re-mount the drive short of rebooting?? I tried bringing up Disk Utility but it hangs. Weird.

SMacTech · Sep 4, 2003, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by d0ubled0wn:

Other things that still need fixing as of 7b53:
� In System Prefs -> Desktop, clicking between the different category folders for desktop pictures results in unexpected quit.

I have that problem too, with an Archive and retain user settings from 7b49

I opened it again, and it had my iPhoto album selected. Subsequent clicking on other folder/categories caused System Preferences to crash.

pelorus · Sep 4, 2003, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
You don't need another HD.

1. Insert OS X Install CD (Jaguar, Panther, et cetera)
2. Open "Install Mac OS X"
3. Click "Restart"
4. Wait for Installer.app to load
5. Apple Menu:Open DiskUtility...
6. Now you can erase your boot volume! (yay!)

All there is to it!

Except that the "boot volume" is the CD at this point and no, you can't erase it.

I mean, Duh...

KidRed · Sep 4, 2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Webscreamer:
Another "bug" is when you command + tab(they changed the look in 7B53) the text is now hard to read with stuff in the background.

That's not a bug. That;s a draw back of transparency.

Hi I'm Ben · Sep 4, 2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by d0ubled0wn:
I am experiencing the same thing. Quartz (or something) definitely needs tweaking.

Other things that still need fixing as of 7b53:
� DVD menus in DVD player are not showing up, just a black screen. Video playback is fine however.
� In System Prefs -> Desktop, clicking between the different category folders for desktop pictures results in unexpected quit.
� I have a 2nd hard drive; I should not be able to "eject" the hard drive from the finder (by clicking the eject button.) How do I re-mount the drive short of rebooting?? I tried bringing up Disk Utility but it hangs. Weird.

funny because on my iBook 500, everything runs much nicer.

i know I don't have Quartz Extreem. That's why I find it funny that all the things that used to give me a hard time. Don't.

Webscreamer · Sep 4, 2003, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by KidRed:
That's not a bug. That;s a draw back of transparency.

Correct... it is not a bug. But when they just redid it in 7B53 they need to make the background transparancy darker....

Stradlater · Sep 4, 2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by pelorus:
Except that the "boot volume" is the CD at this point and no, you can't erase it.

I mean, Duh...

You know what I meant

absmiths · Sep 4, 2003, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
You know what I meant

Yes, but it is pretty far fetched - and doesn't contradict the statement that Disk Utility won't let you format the boot partition.

Mafoo · Sep 4, 2003, 04:02 PM

well, using the power of unix (TM):

sudo rm -rf / will wipe your HD while booted

it might blowup when it hits your swap file, depends on how much ram you have, ive unplugged a HD and kept OS 9 running for ages, it just dies when it tries to read off the disk.

-mafoo