[quandarry]

I can't figure it out. Seems it always was, is now and always will be.

Anyone spent time in the area and can shed some light on this for me.

I know it's not a white folk thing. Some of these tribes have hated each other for centuries

before the white folk came.

Things seem to be boiling over in several countries as i write this.

Actually they always seem to be boiling over.

[quandarry]

after reading this from another thread i can only assume they are all bonkers over there (the leaders) and the world does not care.

i guess it's too far gone to try and help fix it.

http://www.canada.com/montreal/montr...E-E1AC7326C0AC

[f1000]

Originally posted by quandarry:
I can't figure it out. Seems it always was, is now and always will be.

Anyone spent time in the area and can shed some light on this for me.

I know it's not a white folk thing. Some of these tribes have hated each other for centuries

before the white folk came.

Things seem to be boiling over in several countries as i write this.

Actually they always seem to be boiling over.

Africa had the poor luck of being closer to Europe than the Far East was. When a rapacious Europe began colonizing the less advanced peoples of the world, Africa was among the first areas to be subjugated. It is no coincidence that both Japan and Korea are among the most successful non-white countries in the world. Neither country was very socially disrupted by "white" colonialism, which took quite some time to reach these far away lands (as far away as you can get for Europeans).

If you consider the fact that the indigenous peoples of entire continents (Aborigines, Native Americans) were completely supplanted by Europeans, at least African tribes are still around to squabble.

[voodoo]

All our fault eh?

Well. Some of it is but I don't think it explains all of the insanity in sub-Saharan Africa.

[kvm_mkdb]

Originally posted by f1000:
Africa had the poor luck of being closer to Europe than the Far East was. When a rapacious Europe began colonizing the less advanced peoples of the world, Africa was among the first areas to be subjugated. It is no coincidence that both Japan and Korea are among the most successful non-white countries in the world. Neither country was very socially disrupted by "white" colonialism, which took quite some time to reach these far away lands (as far away as you can get for Europeans).

[MacGorilla]

Of course it doesn't help that the US gives more aid to Israel than all of sub-Saharan Africa combined. Not saying its our fault or blaming Israel, just an interesting stat.

[f1000]

Originally posted by voodoo:
All our fault eh?

Well. Some of it is but I don't think it explains all of the insanity in sub-Saharan Africa.

I didn't mean to pass moral judgement on European colonialism; after all, it wasn't Europe's fault that everyone else was weaker. Most civilizations have at one time or another expanded at the expense of others, and European nations simply took advantage of significant philosophical advancements that gave them an organizational and technical lead over the rest of the world.

I do take issue with the notion that sub-Saharan Africa is destined to remain a basket-case. It wasn't too long ago that the E.U. and the Far East were vast killing fields also. The death toll from WWII alone was almost 50 million people (sub-Saharans not included). Talk about insanity...

[Vpro7]

A lot of the trouble in Sudan, and Nigeria, is caused by Christian extremists, it's a very draiinng situation in which these countries receive virtually no help from the so-called 'War on Terror' nations.

[Developer]

� Centuries old tribal rivalry
� Colonization: drawing random country borders ignoring those tribes; too hastily releasing into independence creating democracy disasters
� Natural resources (oil, diamonds) making Africa playball of those industry's interests
� Religious conflicts (Islam, Christianity, native)

[chris v]

The USSR and the USA did a pretty fair amount of fighting the Cold War by proxy in Africa as well. That contributed greatly to the insatbility in newly independent former colonies like The Congo and Angola throughout the sixties and seventies. I haven't read too much on eastern Sub-Saharan Africa, but that is probably the case as well in Zimabwe/Rhodesia, Zambia, Tanzania and Kenya to some extent.

CV

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by voodoo:
All our fault eh?

Well. Some of it is but I don't think it explains all of the insanity in sub-Saharan Africa.

I agree with MacGorilla, f1000 and Vpro7 on this as well.

There is also another factor, too often neglected involved.

Human beings have memory. They remember what they are told or what they see. Colonisation in all its ugliness is never forgotten, especially when there is so much grief;

1) loss of culture
2) loss of country
3) loss of identity
4) loss of power and control over what was once properly owned
5) loss of capacity to self-accomplish and be recognized traditionally as a member of that group

See, people want power because of their need of self accomplishment. Whether it is the hunter who needs game for his family, a child in need of a ritual to become a man, or a C.E.O. out there to make a buck, we need to create, accomplish something. If you are denied that action, you are reduced to not much but to find power elsewhere.

In some situations, people will look for handles to get power through the weakest of their own society (women, children, the sick or impotent); it is called abuse. But it will not be the choice of all members of that society. People will look often at opportunity to make the best of these situations of colonization but because of the oppression of the colonizers, through enslavement and racism and denial of any rights, even those people with all their good will to adapt will find a way to regain a minimum of power.

I think a lot of the terrorism (but not all) comes from that. Colin Powell called Al-Qaeda's tactics, in the beginning in the aftermath of 9/11, something like using weapons of the poor or something like that. The lack of means is qualified here with the term "of the poor". How come they are poor in the first place anyway? We need to look at History to have some answers.

There is also the phenomenon of transgenerational trauma that complicates the whole thing. Earlier aI mentioned the role of memory. These memories are transmitted from generations to generations, sometimes in very clear ways (songs, celebrations, commemorations, national anniversaries of defeat, etc.).

Sometimes it is done in very subtle ways through behaviours and values vehiculated in one's family; politics, acts a bravery from an ancestor or a parent. Sometimes it is even more subtle; the violence and the abuse from one's lack of power is reinterpreted, often rightfully, as a reaction to the dramatic socio-political change that happened years or decades earlier. Sometimes, generations ago.

You might be surprised at how much what I just described can apply in our own daily lives. Of course, my description of the phenomena is very simplistic. That does not excuse the behaviours; it explains it, at least partially. As long as people will look for power over someone else, there will be oppression and the oppressed is bound to react, one way or the other.

Also, there is one final rule we tend to forget; humans are humans. Wherever they are, whoever they are, they are bound to react, in appearance, in a completely wacko way. So no, not only the white people are to be blamed. Human nature applies to everyone who's human.

This is imho, of course.

[thunderous_funker]

great posts, everyone. Thank you.

[swrate]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
great posts, everyone. Thank you.

yes, its good to read all this and remember the tragedies that can happen any time to whole populations.


Putting into focus. thanks
never simple....
catastrophies, emigrations, genocides
Other "power" taking over
*translation follows


sSpaced out here, read about Spain with.....




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HorrorYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
sorry

landed in the other thread first
and nearly fainted.
and boiled



why was bush and Iraq suddenly there? ohwot again
Sub-Saharan, another nest,
why are the nests at specific places
sufferingzones
*rebellion retaliation


yes, concentrate on all the other problems too, or the world will never become a better place.


breathing and
dreaming again.
sw

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by swrate:
yes,
(...)
breathing and
dreaming again.
sw

;o)