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Car Talk (Page 21)
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subego  (op)
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Jan 13, 2020, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
So in our brave new automotive world of zero tailpipe emissions it turns out that Rolls Royce are booming. Sales in particular of their 3 tonne "**** you pauper" 4x4 idiot wagon are up as is the insanity of people with 32,000 times more money than sense sometimes doubling the price of their car by bespoking it, including paint with diamonds crushed into it, leather with stitching from a rose bred especially for rolls Royce so no other person can ever grow them (yes really) and someone with a planetarium complete with shooting stars embedded into the roof.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ke-rolls-royce

I for one welcome our new fire resistant overlords.
I don’t judge people for spending too much money, but I do judge them for bad taste. That interior is horrid.
( Last edited by subego; Jan 13, 2020 at 02:48 PM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 23, 2020, 07:50 PM
 
Hit the 6 month mark on the Aquapel, and it’s starting to get back to normal. Figured what the hell, I’ll re-up.

Edit: oh, yeah... just drove 2 hours in the rain. Windshield sucked.

Edit two: happened again. I really hate the untreated window. The wipers never get it clean.
( Last edited by subego; Jan 25, 2020 at 11:09 AM. )
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 25, 2020, 08:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I don’t judge people for spending too much money, but I do judge them for bad taste. That interior is horrid.
It is obscene but on the other hand there are fewer things these days that have the level of craftsmanship to the match the nice things of days gone by. We have flat pack disposable furniture instead of invincible hand-carved, ornate hardwood masterpieces. I know they aren't equivalent but even a lot of posh stuff is just cheaply made/designed out of needlessly expensive materials. Or worse they just have some arseholes name on and the price got tripled as a result.

The wooden veneers they use on the dashboard of a Rolls Royce are symmetrical down the centre because they take a veneer, then split it in half and fan it out like a butterfly. The leather they use is grade 1 which means the cows live in fields with no barbed wire so they don't get nick themselves and cause imperfections.

They may be crazy expensive and ostentatious, but they are master crafted. I have a lot of time for that.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Jan 27, 2020, 09:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
It is obscene but on the other hand there are fewer things these days that have the level of craftsmanship to the match the nice things of days gone by. We have flat pack disposable furniture instead of invincible hand-carved, ornate hardwood masterpieces.
Those things still exist, you just don't want to pay for them when you get 90% of the function for 10% of the price.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 27, 2020, 10:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Those things still exist, you just don't want to pay for them when you get 90% of the function for 10% of the price.
They do but I feel like a lot of them are super minimalist and the price tag reflects the name or the level of pretentiousness more than the man hours that goes into making them.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Jan 27, 2020, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
They do but I feel like a lot of them are super minimalist and the price tag reflects the name or the level of pretentiousness more than the man hours that goes into making them.
Yes, that is how literally every product in the world is priced. Price is based on perceived value.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 28, 2020, 07:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Yes, that is how literally every product in the world is priced. Price is based on perceived value.
Some things are priced based on the amount of work that goes into them, the amount of skill involved and the years of training required to master those skills. Others are priced based on what some overpaid idiot will pay for it. Like the difference between a pair of hand-tailored Italian leather shoes and some stupid limited edition rubber trainers (sneakers) with a badge from a rapper on them.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Jan 28, 2020, 01:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Some things are priced based on the amount of work that goes into them, the amount of skill involved and the years of training required to master those skills.
False. Price is always based on what you can get someone to pay for your goods.

Communicating to your customer all of the skill involved and fine details inlaid in the product increases perceived value and allows you to capture a higher price. As does touting exclusivity or rarity.

"This fine artisan hardwood dining room table is expensive because it uses the finest materials and was built by the most experienced craftsman" is false, wrong, and backwards. It is what the marketers will say to you and what they want you to believe. "You get what you pay for" is the kind of thing marketing departments of premium products like to chant over and over again.

"This fine artisan hardwood dining room table is expensive because people perceive value in the design and expected longevity of the furniture" is correct.

Cost of production does not determine price. Market determines price.

Cost of production only determines profit margin.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 28, 2020, 10:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
False. Price is always based on what you can get someone to pay for your goods.

Communicating to your customer all of the skill involved and fine details inlaid in the product increases perceived value and allows you to capture a higher price. As does touting exclusivity or rarity.

"This fine artisan hardwood dining room table is expensive because it uses the finest materials and was built by the most experienced craftsman" is false, wrong, and backwards. It is what the marketers will say to you and what they want you to believe. "You get what you pay for" is the kind of thing marketing departments of premium products like to chant over and over again.

"This fine artisan hardwood dining room table is expensive because people perceive value in the design and expected longevity of the furniture" is correct.

Cost of production does not determine price. Market determines price.

Cost of production only determines profit margin.
Depends who is doing the pricing.

One of the things I like about Ikea is that they regularly produce items that look really good but they don't jack the price up through the roof. I've seen them sell stuff for £5 they could easily get £25 for if they chose to. I'm sure there are higher end examples too. I imagine many companies have started out to fill a gap in a market by making something pretty and functional with the idea of undercutting the competition only to be persuaded before launch that they can triple the price because its so pretty and they'd be stupid not to.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
turtle777
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Jan 28, 2020, 10:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
False. Price is always based on what you can get someone to pay for your goods.

Communicating to your customer all of the skill involved and fine details inlaid in the product increases perceived value and allows you to capture a higher price. As does touting exclusivity or rarity.

"This fine artisan hardwood dining room table is expensive because it uses the finest materials and was built by the most experienced craftsman" is false, wrong, and backwards. It is what the marketers will say to you and what they want you to believe. "You get what you pay for" is the kind of thing marketing departments of premium products like to chant over and over again.

"This fine artisan hardwood dining room table is expensive because people perceive value in the design and expected longevity of the furniture" is correct.

Cost of production does not determine price. Market determines price.

Cost of production only determines profit margin.
Get your free market economy capitalist ass outta here.

-t
     
Laminar
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Jan 29, 2020, 10:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Depends who is doing the pricing.
Yes, there are exceptions - underpricing to drive out competition and gain market dominance (selling a game console for less than it costs to manufacture to make your money back on the games), underpricing some items as loss leaders to get people to buy your normally-priced items (Ikea - I just go there for the great deals! *buys $300 in knick-knacks*).

Some small volume shops will do a cost+necessary profit margin = price calculation, but eventually they'll wonder why they're not very profitable, hire a consultant, and find out that their prices are too low and everybody thinks their stuff is shit, because "you get what you pay for." So they bump up prices and see an uptick in sales AND profit.

I used to love Harbor Freight for this - it was literally "how much does a 7 year old Chinese girl get paid to weld this engine stand together" + like 22% profit margin, then they hand out 20% off coupons like candy. So they were shit, but I was getting exactly as much as I paid for. I could go to Home Depot and buy the exact same item with different branding for 50% more because Home Depot knew that's the price they could capture for that item.

In the last couple of years they've strayed from that and are trying to establish themselves as a valid tool brand, so they've priced their power tools right up there with Milwaukee and they're trying to go for Snap-On and Craftsman with their $4000 tool boxes. No idea if it's working or not, but I'm sure as hell not shelling out Milwaukee prices for HF tools.

You always have to start with the principle that an item is priced at its perceived value and adjust from there.

Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Get your free market economy capitalist ass outta here.

-t
It blows me away to see people defending corporations - "Well, they spent a lot of money in R&D so they need to make it back with their high prices." No, they've convinced you that they've put tons of R&D and therefore value into the product, so you believe it is worth a higher price. Whether they've actually spent more on R&D than a competitor is unknown, and whether the R&D was effective is also unknown, but just by pricing the item high, they have people lining up to defend how fantastic the product must be.

One of the most obvious offenders is Apple with component options - a pair of 4GB DDR4 2666 modules like what comes in the iMac costs about $50. A pair of 8GB sticks runs $75. But if you have Apple pull those 4GB sticks out and put in a pair of 8GB sticks, they'll charge you $200 for the the pleasure, even though the component cost difference is under $25, that's an 800% markup. "Oh, but that's the difference between selling something off the shelf and having to custom build it," you say. Well, if that was the case then there'd be a static adder for "custom build," and the component prices would scale with cost i.e. $175 for the custom build, $25 for the components. Let's test that theory - a pair of 16GB sticks is $125, so we'd expect the static $175 for the custom build fee since it doesn't take any more labor to install a larger capacity pair of sticks. And the component price difference is $75. So the 32GB RAM option should cost $250. WRONG it's $600.

Price has nothing to do with cost and everything to do with what they know they can charge for it.

Car options are another great example - my wife's car came with the "Luxury Package," which includes a set of LED headlights instead of the stock projector lights, and a 19-speaker stereo instead of the utterly worthless plebeian stock 13 speaker stereo. Lincoln charged $4400 for this option from the factory. Fans would rave over the high tech LED lights, and gush over the incredible fidelity of the upgraded stereo.

Well, actually, the stock projector lights are much more complex - they have specific optics in the projector lens, along with a motorized shaft to actively aim them in the direction the car's traveling. Replacements from Ford are $1724 each. The luxury LEDs are fixed and simple, they use a normal reflector housing. Replacements from Ford are $1667 each.

Revel makes both the base model and upgraded stereos. So any measurements of the car's soundstage were already done for the base stereo. There was likely some marginal additional labor tuning the upgraded stereo, and maybe a couple hundred bucks in components.

So where does the $4400 come from? Because everybody wants the cool-ass LED headlights so it looks like an Acura. And we all know that more speakers = better. Same with factory wheel options - you're charging $1000 for a wheel that's the same size, same quality, same material, but it's BLACK which is AWESOME and I WANT IT.
     
Thorzdad
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Jan 29, 2020, 06:18 PM
 
Effin’ LED headlights on an approaching car are such a PITA. It’s almost as if they come from the factory aimed directly up into oncoming drivers’ eyes. They’re even worse in a mega-pickup, where the headlights are already sitting high, right at your eye level. You have to look away from the road to avoid being blinded.
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Waragainstsleep
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Jan 29, 2020, 06:31 PM
 
BMW used to charge £800 per light for a £20 halogen lamp bulb.

Apple's memory and SSD prices are basically an idiot tax. Always have been.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
turtle777
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Jan 29, 2020, 10:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Effin’ LED headlights on an approaching car are such a PITA. It’s almost as if they come from the factory aimed directly up into oncoming drivers’ eyes. They’re even worse in a mega-pickup, where the headlights are already sitting high, right at your eye level. You have to look away from the road to avoid being blinded.
Are these factory LED, or after market ?

Factory should be calibrated right, but Sith after market shit, all bets are off.

-t
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 29, 2020, 10:06 PM
 
The blue cast from LED headlights in my rear view mirror always makes me think it’s the cops.

Speaking of LEDs, though, I put in super bright LED replacement bulbs on the inside today, and those are awesome.
     
Thorzdad
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Jan 29, 2020, 10:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Are these factory LED, or after market ?

Factory should be calibrated right, but Sith after market shit, all bets are off.

-t
The pickups are definitely new factory lights. Can’t say about the cars, but given they generally seem to be newish expensive rides, I would assume they’re factory.
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subego  (op)
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Jan 30, 2020, 01:55 PM
 
Aquapel back on the windows, and all is right with the world again.

I truly hated driving in the rain once it wore off. I guess I’m stuck with it for life.
     
Laminar
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Jan 30, 2020, 02:21 PM
 
Now that you mention it I've been annoyed at my wipers kind of sucking and was thinking about getting new ones, but I probably just need to recoat the windshield.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 30, 2020, 02:39 PM
 
Even though these are less than three months old, I got new blades anyways.

I’m sure the lack of coating was part of it, but I got stuck in a blizzard a couple weeks back, and there was constant ice buildup on the wipers. I was ripping two-inch thick chunks off them during pit stops. They’ve been smeary ever since.
     
Brien
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Feb 1, 2020, 01:15 AM
 
Options are overpriced but in the case of my GTI, the stock halogens are garbage so I gladly payed up for the LED ones.
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 23, 2020, 09:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
My conspiracy theory is that they occasionally purposely take you down the wrong road just because they want data on that road.
They hit me hard with it this morning. It tried to take me 7 or 8 miles out of my way.
     
andi*pandi
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Feb 23, 2020, 01:36 PM
 
Yesterday I got directions to a dunkin. The walking directions went straight there, but the driving directions had me go a wide loop around. I thought, oh, that road must not cut through. Afterward, i found out it totally did cut through. Also it brought me to a grocery dunkin not a real dunkin.
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 23, 2020, 03:02 PM
 
Less conspiratorial... Waze often has a deal where when I start up, it’s confused what direction I’m pointing.

When this happens, it’ll often just calculate a totally new route in that direction rather than spin me around the block to the most reasonable path.
     
turtle777
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Feb 23, 2020, 03:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Less conspiratorial... Waze often has a deal where when I start up, it’s confused what direction I’m pointing.
Do other map apps not have this issue ?

GPS doesn’t provide information like that, and I’m not sure mapping apps utilize the gyroscope data of a cell phone.

-t
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 24, 2020, 12:55 AM
 
They could very well. I only use Waze in the car.

However, I’m more pointing out even if it has no idea, it still won’t spin me around the block.

For example, I need to go one block west to get on the interstate. If Waze thinks I’m pointing east, instead of turning me around, it takes me 4 miles down the road to the next on-ramp.
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 24, 2020, 02:47 PM
 
Here’s the actual example.



If I’m at the red dot, Waze should try to get me on the interstate via Dundee Ave. If I’m pointing in the wrong direction (east), it should take me around the block.

Instead, it takes me to the on-ramp by Shoe Factory Road.


As an aside, I love Shoe Factory Road, because it’s named exactly what it is.
     
turtle777
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Feb 24, 2020, 05:20 PM
 
I didn’t know you ventured out in the north-west burbs. You’re in my neck of the woods.
Elgin is great for tacos.

-t
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 25, 2020, 07:11 AM
 
What’s your go to? El Paraiso?
     
turtle777
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Feb 25, 2020, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What’s your go to? El Paraiso?
For tacos, very close to where you were.

Taqueria Los Comales on Dundee Ave.

Chances are, you’ll be the only non-Mexican there :-)

-t
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 25, 2020, 02:39 PM
 
I’ll check it out!

I usually get roped in by the Beef Villa, which Siri pronounces “Beef Veeya”.
     
turtle777
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Feb 25, 2020, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Beef Villa, which Siri pronounces “Beef Veeya”.


-t
     
P
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Feb 26, 2020, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Do other map apps not have this issue ?

GPS doesn’t provide information like that, and I’m not sure mapping apps utilize the gyroscope data of a cell phone.

-t
iPhones have a compass, and at least Apple Maps does use it to figure out which way you’re looking. It then assumes that you’re facing the windscreen.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
andi*pandi
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Feb 26, 2020, 06:14 PM
 
MA passed a handsfree law that went into effect. Anyone recommend a decent iphone holder? I would rather not use the kind that snaps into a heat vent... unless they don't block heat?
     
turtle777
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Feb 26, 2020, 06:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
iPhones have a compass, and at least Apple Maps does use it to figure out which way you’re looking. It then assumes that you’re facing the windscreen.
If you have your cell phone mounted upright, it doesn’t really work.

Or if you use carplay, and place your phone randomly in the car, it wouldn’t get it right either.

-t
     
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Feb 27, 2020, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
If you have your cell phone mounted upright, it doesn’t really work.

Or if you use carplay, and place your phone randomly in the car, it wouldn’t get it right either.

-t
If it is mounted absolutely vertically, then sure. And CarPlay would make it not work, but if you need to guess because the car isn’t moving, it is as good a guess as any. It will ignore the compass when it starts moving.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 28, 2020, 02:02 PM
 
America's funniest auto mechanics take calls from weary car owners all over the country and crack wise while they diagnose Dodges and dismiss Daihatsu. You don't have to know anything about cars to love this one-hour weekly laugh fest.
     
 
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