Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Boris Johnson vs The Queen and Parliament

Boris Johnson vs The Queen and Parliament (Page 3)
Thread Tools
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2019, 08:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Because the ailments in western “democracies” are the same in Britain, Europe and the US: political elites pursuing social and liberal pet projects, with total disregard to the will of the majority of the people.
You'll have to remind me again - who won the majority of votes in that last election?
     
Doc HM
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2019, 09:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
No, people didn’t switch from Labour to Tory because of Brexit. Various other people on the right wing might have gone to Tory to make sure it happened, but as noted, the Brexit parties lost this by the popular vote. People voted for Tory because Labour was somehow worse.
Not strictly true. The tory vote barely budged, up 1 and. bit %. Tory remainers on the whole stayed loyal, a few may have switched to the LibDems but only enough to fill a small row boat. On the other hand Labour suffered a huge drain from its leave voters. Some to the Tories but a lot went to Farrage who was helpfully only standing in areas with large Labour leave pools of voters. In areas without a Brexit MP, Labour leavers were much more likely to switch to the Tories than visa versa.
Johnson acknowledge this when he referred to the loaned votes.
I think in the end whatever lies he told, however anyone felt about what is/will be about to come, a large chunk of the population basically went with literally ANYTHING being better than more Brexit, This meant Labours offer of, well, more Brexit, was mostly ignored.

The UK electorate isn't stupid. They know Johnson is an unfit, shallow opportunistic lying shit but he WILL deliver Brexit, even if that can only be the hardest of all options once the year long negotiations fail. And people will be happy with that, At least until the effects kick in by which time it will be way too late to complain.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2019, 01:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I think its what spiritual folks call a soul.
[rimshot]

Are Tories not allowed to promote charitable giving?
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2019, 07:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Not strictly true. The tory vote barely budged, up 1 and. bit %.
I think this is extremely important to keep in mind: seats are not representative of vote share, and the narrative of this election has been formed by net seat gains and losses. While Labor lost big (3.5 million votes), Tories only gained 300,000 votes and the LibDems gained 1.5 million votes (an increase of about 60 %). You’d never know, because the press focusses on seats rather than vote share. Given that in the UK you have more than two parties but still a (stupid) first-pass-the-post system, vote and seat share are wildly divergent.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 24, 2019, 05:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
[rimshot]

Are Tories not allowed to promote charitable giving?
Sure, but if you vote for poverty then ask people to help stop it you're a special kind of ****wit.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 24, 2019, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
The UK electorate isn't stupid. They know Johnson is an unfit, shallow opportunistic lying shit but he WILL deliver Brexit, even if that can only be the hardest of all options once the year long negotiations fail. And people will be happy with that, At least until the effects kick in by which time it will be way too late to complain.
I think Tory remainers would have jumped if they had something more palatable to jump to. The team behind Brexit successfully Hillary'd Jeremy Corbyn in the press though.

It may be the case that Tory remainers did change but more Labour leavers compensated no? Just because the Tory vote didn't change much doesn't mean it was all the same voters.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 24, 2019, 06:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Sure, but if you vote for poverty then ask people to help stop it you're a special kind of ****wit.
I genuinely don’t want to put words in your mouth... correct me where I’m not getting it.

“A Tory vote is a vote for poverty, therefore all Tories who promote charity are ****wits.”

For all intents and purposes, I feel this the same as saying Tories should not promote charity.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 25, 2019, 02:25 PM
 
Waragainstlogic

-t
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 26, 2019, 10:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I genuinely don’t want to put words in your mouth... correct me where I’m not getting it.

“A Tory vote is a vote for poverty, therefore all Tories who promote charity are ****wits.”

For all intents and purposes, I feel this the same as saying Tories should not promote charity.
Specifically personal charity that is only needed because of the ignorant ways they form their political opinions. If they want to promote feeding starving kids in Africa, that's fine. Starving kids at home, you voted for it, you fix it. Otherwise its just people being selfish and expecting others to catch the shortfall of their greed and stupidity.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 26, 2019, 11:17 AM
 
As an aside, I just saw the movie The Party, which is somewhat related to UK politics.

One actress can’t handle making the dialogue sound natural, but everyone else (which includes Kristin Scott Thomas, Cillian Murphy, Timothy Spall, and Bruno Ganz) is frigging brilliant. It’s also hilarious, and only about an hour, so it doesn’t overstay it’s welcome.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 26, 2019, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Specifically personal charity that is only needed because of the ignorant ways they form their political opinions. If they want to promote feeding starving kids in Africa, that's fine. Starving kids at home, you voted for it, you fix it. Otherwise its just people being selfish and expecting others to catch the shortfall of their greed and stupidity.
Is there something which leads you to believe this person is promoting charity without contributing? If that’s the case, that’s an unquestionably shitty thing to do (and would be the piece of the story I felt was missing).

If this person does contribute, isn’t that exactly what you’re asking them to do? They voted for it, and they’re also trying to fix it.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 27, 2019, 09:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Specifically personal charity that is only needed because of the ignorant ways they form their political opinions.
You are a piece of work.

You are telling me that Labor had eradicated poverty in the UK, but the Tories, Brexiteers and Boris brought it back ?

-t
     
Doc HM
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 28, 2019, 05:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
You are a piece of work.

You are telling me that Labor had eradicated poverty in the UK, but the Tories, Brexiteers and Boris brought it back ?

-t
Labour made huge inroads into homelessness and poverty, particularly child poverty. Homelessness in particular was reduced to practically the hard core no helping them homeless, and even that was a success story.
Since then (Tory rule) well, not so much. Homelessness has surged, child poverty is greatly increased and in work poverty is now a thing for a disturbingly large proportion of the working population, while at the same time companies are relieved of the need to pay living wages by the benefits system which tops up wages (to the minimum level - ish) so that companies can pay more in bonuses and dividends.
Food banks are endemic and food poverty common.

"Charity" is a great thing, but its no way to run a country and the rich only ever donate a) to causes they like and b) to a far less extent (%age wise) than the less well-off.

So in effect you could pretty well summarise the last decade of austerity as, yes, Labour made huge strides to help alleviate the worst excesses of poverty, all of which and more the Tories (and Boris) have indeed undone. I'll give Brexit a pass on this one as the effects will be future poverty not past.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 28, 2019, 09:55 PM
 
Saved me a job thanks Doc.

What a surprise the conservative ass is just as ignorant, out of touch and self-serving as all the stereotypes say, but I'm a piece of work for pointing out the truth and calling out someone else for their vile, ignorant hypocrisy? Pot, kettle, blah.

Doc didn't even get to the part where the Tory re-work of the benefits payment systems resulted in people who were days from dropping dead being told they were fit to work and having their income removed. Perhaps Turtle would like to call them lazy or spit on their graves for good measure? Then call me names for mentioning them.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:28 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,