[lil'babykitten]

Israeli Soilder Charged Over Death

An Israeli soldier has been charged with manslaughter over the death of a UK activist who was shot last year.

Student Tom Hurndall was hit in the head last April while observing Israeli troops in Rafah refugee camp.

He suffered severe brain damage, never regained consciousness and died last month in a London hospital, aged 22.

Hurndall was a member of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), which campaigns against the Israeli occupation of Palestinian areas.

I'm surprised at his family's success.
Great news.

[kvm_mkdb]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Great news.

I don't know. The name of the soldier who shot has never been revealed, which casts doubts on what punishment he will really face, if at all.

The areas in proximity of the fence surrounding Gaza are known to be a free-for-all where Palestinian children are shot on a daily basis: as long this sad fact is not 'newsworthy' enough it will continue to happen.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by kvm_mkdb:
I don't know. The name of the soldier who shot has never been revealed, which casts doubts on what punishment he will really face, if at all.

The areas in proximity of the fence surrounding Gaza are known to be a free-for-all where Palestinian children are shot on a daily basis: as long this sad fact is not 'newsworthy' enough it will continue to happen.

That dog won't hunt. The fence area is (a) not a free for all, (b) children are not shot daily, (c) the fence area is a no-man's-land and as long as people who have no intention of infiltration stay a safe distance from it, they are in no danger.

''This is the fence that Arafat built. His terrorism initiated it and made its construction inevitable,'' declared Dan Gillerman, Israeli Ambassador to the U.N. It's also 100% successful in preventing terrorist bombing attacks from coming in from Gaza.

Lastly, Hurndall chose to place himself in harm's way, however well-intentioned he believed himself.

Hurndall had been working with the controversial international solidarity movement in Gaza at the time he was shot.

His death follows the indictment of an IDF soldier by an Israeli military court in connection with the shooting.

The individual, believed to be a member of a Bedouin unit, was indicted on charges including aggravated assault and false testimony.

(summary for those who haven't grasped the irony: Student from Manchester, England who has no connection to either side of the conflict inserts himself in favor of Palestinian Arabs-- Only to be shot by an Arab serving in the Israeli Defense Forces.)

He was indicted by an IDF military court. Hurndall family lawyers successfully lobbied to have charges upgraded to murder, but it doesn't mean that they'll be successful in obtaining conviction on those higher charges.

[kvm_mkdb]

Originally posted by vmarks:
That dog won't hunt. The fence area is (a) not a free for all, (b) children are not shot daily, (c) the fence area is a no-man's-land and as long as people who have no intention of infiltration stay a safe distance from it, they are in no danger.

You are badly misinformed:

http://www.vindy.com/sports/98078933622395.php

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori.../70859/1/.html

Only in the last two weeks. Had you ever been there, you would know what great lengths parent go trying to keep children away from the fence area; Gaza is mostly overcrowded, and kids feel naturally attracted to wide open spaces...

''This is the fence that Arafat built. His terrorism initiated it and made its construction inevitable,'' declared Dan Gillerman, Israeli Ambassador to the U.N. It's also 100% successful in preventing terrorist bombing attacks from coming in from Gaza.

Ah, if that is the opinion of the 'There is no occupation'-Israeli ambassador, it must be true: the devil made them do it...

Lastly, Hurndall chose to place himself in harm's way, however well-intentioned he believed himself.

Which is the official line we get from the Israeli PR every time a foreigner is killed in the territories. This guy -oh so controversial- mission was to shield children from harm; you might not agree with his affiliations, but that doesn't change the fact that volunteers from western countries and even Israel put their lives at risk to protect innocents that have no part in this conflict whatsoever.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by kvm_mkdb:
You are badly misinformed:

http://www.vindy.com/sports/98078933622395.php

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori.../70859/1/.html

Only in the last two weeks. Had you ever been there, you would know what great lengths parent go trying to keep children away from the fence area; Gaza is mostly overcrowded, and kids feel naturally attracted to wide open spaces...

When were you last there? I know when I was.
You picked two stories, one an isolated incident, and the other, a tank shelling- which isn't at all the same as what you originally said- that soldiers were taking aim and shooting innocent children.

The point of having a fence is disengagement so that progress can be made on discussions towards peacable negotiation. The fence is effective because it and it's soldiers keep people from crossing.

When Palestinian militants use children of between 10 and 15 "as observers and scouts, and they also throw hand grenades and use weapons" blame the Palestinian terrorists and the parents.

But we already know whose bogus PR line you've bought, so instead of pursuing this with you, I'll just wait for the court ruling on the particular incident that inspired the thread.

[Dudaev's Corpse]

His dumbass chose to go into a war zone that he has no business in. He got shot. I feel bad for his family's loss, but if the guy had been using the brain that was later severely damaged, then he would still be alive today.

[itai195]

You claim that children are being killed daily and the best you can do is post articles about two events more than three weeks apart? Get some better sources if you're going to make such an inflammatory claim.

Either way, in regards to the topic at hand... While I question the victim's judgment, if the soldier is responsible for his death then I'm glad due process is taking place.

[shmerek]

On a fence related note...

[kvm_mkdb]

Originally posted by shmerek:
On a fence related note...

Can you repost that article here? it requires a paid subscription...

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by kvm_mkdb:
Can you repost that article here? it requires a paid subscription...

Odd - I read that article earlier today, didn't require any sort of registration.

It was quite detailed. The main jist was that the Palestinian homes and farms that have fallen 'on the wrong side' of the wall are going to be demolished.

[kvm_mkdb]

Originally posted by itai195:
Get some better sources if you're going to make such an inflammatory claim.

How is describing a tragedy an inflammatory claim?

Take this account from Harpers Magazine:

It is still. The camp waits, as if holding its breath. And then, out of the dry furnace air, a disembodied voice crackles over a loudspeaker.

'Come on, dogs,' the voice booms in Arabic. 'Where are all the dogs of Khan Younis? Come! Come!'

I stand up. I walk outside the hut. The invective continues to spew: 'Son of a bitch!' 'Son of a Whore!�'

The boys dart in small packs up the sloping dunes to the electric fence that separates the camp from the Jewish settlement. They lob rocks toward two armored jeeps parked on top of the dune and mounted with loudspeakers. Three ambulances line the road below the dunes in anticipation of what is to come.

A percussion grenade explodes. The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scatter, running clumsily across the heavy sand. They descend out of sight behind a sandbank in front of me. There are no sounds of gunfire. The soldiers shoot with silencers. The bullets from the M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children's slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos.

Yesterday at this spot the Israelis shot eight young men, six of whom were under the age of eighteen. One was twelve. This afternoon they kill an eleven-year-old boy, Ali Murad, and seriously wound four more, three of whom are under eighteen. Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered - death squads gunned them down in El Salvador and Guatemala, mothers with infants were lined up and massacred in Algeria, and Serb snipers put children in their sights and watched them crumple onto the pavement in Sarajevo - but I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport.

We approach a Palestinian police post behind a sand hill. The police, in green uniforms, are making tea. They say that they have given up on trying to hold the children back.

'When we tell the boys not to go to the dunes they taunt us as collaborators,' Lt. Ayman Ghanm says. 'When we approach the fence with our weapons to try and clear the area the Israelis fire on us. We just sit here now and wait for the war.'"

Unlike you and vmarx I do not buy either side's PR... there are atrocities committed on both sides, and on both sides there are good-willing people putting their lives in danger for the sake of the innocents, like Tom Hurndall.

[shmerek]

Originally posted by kvm_mkdb:
Can you repost that article here? it requires a paid subscription...

Weird I read it this morning and I don't have a subscription.

[itai195]

Originally posted by kvm_mkdb:
Unlike you and vmarx I do not buy either side's PR... there are atrocities committed on both sides, and on both sides there are good-willing people putting their lives in danger for the sake of the innocents, like Tom Hurndall.

Right, we buy the PR because we disagreed with your claim that children are shot on a daily basis, which is nothing but overly simplistic rhetoric.

[kvm_mkdb]

Originally posted by itai195:
nothing but overly simplistic rhetoric.

Yesterday: A 10-year-old Palestinian boy has been killed and another child wounded after Israeli soldiers opened fire at a group of children near the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1044794.htm

2 days ago: a 12-year-old boy was killed and another Palestinian child, aged 11, wounded by army fire in Rafah
http://www.hipakistan.com/en/detail....&f_type=source

If you look hard enough, you will find such to be a daily occurrence.

[Logic]

More stats

[nath]

Originally Posted by vmarks

That dog won't hunt.

Apparently it will. Update:

A former Israeli soldier has been found guilty of the manslaughter of British student Tom Hurndall in the Gaza Strip.

In addition to the manslaughter verdict, Taysir was found guilty of obstruction of justice, incitement to false testimony, false testimony and improper conduct.

The defendant was led out of the court in handcuffs and tried to attack a number of photographers and cameramen filming him, the BBC's Middle East correspondent James Reynolds said

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4625355.stm

[Kevin]

Now only if "Palestine" would hold it's people accountable for their actions instead of rewarding them, we would have progress.