[thisisjames]

Hey everyone,

I bought my first Mac last June, one of the first 12" PowerBook G4 867MHz. It was a bit of a leap of faith, with a bit of a push from some friends. I'm thinking about upgrading to something newer, but the experience with this computer has not exactly been fantastic so I'm unsure what to go for.

I knew the 12" ran hot from all the reviews and messages I'd read on here, however, the solution hasn't impressed me. 11 months after release Apple decided yes, it does run too hot, and since the 10.3.2 update the fan is on almost constantly. If I'm in a cold room and/or don't run any apps it goes off.

Not my ideal computing situation! Anyway, I'm sure you all appreciate the aesthetic appeal of the Mac and that the elegant silence has been replaced by quite a loud whir isn't great. In the library and in lectures the people around me don't appreciate it either.

I know there are "fixes" online that replace part of the kernel with an earlier version to rectify the situation but I don't really want to mess with that, nor do I think I should have to downgrade and loose improvements elsewhere. I know I'm hard to please, but hey, I'm passing the computer onto my parents who wont worry about it!

My first choice of upgrade path is the 1.25GHz SuperDrive 15" PowerBook: but my fears of a similar Revision A situation are making me think twice, as well as the reports of shabby build quality and quality control issues. Is this as hot or hotter than the RevA 12"? How about that fan?

Can I trust Apple not to bolt together a "fix" for a problem further down the line rather than actually making it right? When are we expecting the next speed-bump?

I know there's a lot to read there and quite a few questions, but I'm hoping you guys with your experience of the way things work can shed some light on what is quite a difficult decision.

Cheers,

James.

[hodaddy]

you seem to be knocking right at the crux of your problem--shelling out considerable $$$ on rev. A hardware.

i've done the same thing three times: the b/w G3 tower, the 12" ibook 500, and the 12" pb. (of course i've bought a lot of rev. b and c hardware too)

all 3 rev. a purchases have had issues--tho none of them have caused me to think of switching platforms. (i think the reliability of the rev b/c hardware has proved to me that there are always bugs in the early revs)

the b/w G3 didnt technically-speaking have any problems--tho it would not support a slave drive. the ibook had a power supply issue (that was finally fixed after 3 trips to applecare), and the powerbook has gotten very hot--tho the 10.3.2 update fixed mine with minimal fan usage (my fan rarely comes on, but is still 10-15�F cooler than before)

what i've learned is to not expect perfection out of the rev a releases.

that said, the 15" pb is no longer in rev a. i'd be perfectly confident in getting a good machine if you bought now.

not sure when speed bumps are due--see the rumor sites for some insight--BYO grain of salt

[gfourdoor]

My first choice of upgrade path is the 1.25GHz SuperDrive 15" PowerBook

Good choice, in my opinion. I've had mine since early December and I love it.

I recommend getting the AppleCare Protection for it. The extra insurance could come in handy. You have a year to decide on that, however.

[typoon]

Well from what I understand the Screen issue HAS been fixed I think that was the biggest issue with the new Al 15" Powerbooks. I have a 12" that I bought and so far so good. It's a little warm but no warmer than my iBook was. Also it's silent. I only heard the fan when I had the Marine Aquarium Screen effect enabled. Then I also saw a spike in temp as well. Not using that anymore so it's running anywhere from 95- Max Temp is usally around 120.7 F.

The fan I believe doesn't kick on til around 133 or so.

[parsec_kadets]

Yeah, your concern on the 15" has been justified. Apple admitted during their earnings results conference call that they have had more problems than usual with that PB. But they also said that all of the problems have been fixed in the units that are now shipping. So if you order from Apple, or you can get another retailer to tell you that they received the unit in the last couple weeks (i.e. it hasn't been sitting on a shelf in the back) you should be fine.

[Phat Bastard]

Originally posted by thisisjames:
I knew the 12" ran hot from all the reviews and messages I'd read on here, however, the solution hasn't impressed me. 11 months after release Apple decided yes, it does run too hot, and since the 10.3.2 update the fan is on almost constantly. If I'm in a cold room and/or don't run any apps it goes off.

Here's are my simple solutions to the "running hot" issue:

1. Ignore the fan. Are you working in a library? Why does it HAVE to be perfectly quiet? If you've ever worked in a room filled with desktops, you know that desktop computers are much louder than laptops, so there's always louder computers than your PB. You should feel lucky yours is so quiet. Oh, I should mention that PC laptops are pretty loud.

2. Put the computer to sleep for 5-10 minutes and walk away. It will be nice and cooler by the time you come back. Nothing you can be working on is so important that you can't walk away for a few minutes, grab a beer, then come back to a cooler computer.

3. Buy a laptop stand, or rig one yourself. At first I propped up the back of my PB on a few books, which worked to help air circulation underneath. Because I was having problems with my neck getting stiff looking down at the laptop screen all the time, I bought a Macally Icepad, which served to raise the screen up and save my aching neck. But lo and behold, it helped with air circulation too, and now my fan never goes off.

Of course the cheapest solution to your problem is to follow (1) and (2). I wouldn't judge Apple based on a little glitch you can easily remedy yourself.

[Tek]

I bought a RevA 12" powerbook, and honestely i don't think the thing runs hot at all - I even word process (omniOutline really) on my lap in one class cause the pull out desks are too small and no discomfort at all. I'm not sure if i just got a good one, or if everyone over exagerates slightly. The only time i notice it getting uncomfortably warm is when i am using the cd-rom drive heavily - DVD use etc. There are a few minor issues like a little warpage on the base (Solved by slightly flexing) and the frong bezel sticks out like a millimeter where the battery fits in - if you can imagine this... but other than that she's pretty much perfect...

Would i buy a RevA product again? Heck yeah! I saved like $450 over the RevB item and got a free iSight out of the deal at amazon.com - more than worth it to me... But then again, i love my PowerBook!

[thisisjames]

I wouldn't judge Apple based on a little glitch you can easily remedy yourself.

PB, this was why I was asking everyone, I don't want to judge all of Apple's present and future products based on my limited experience. However, I don't feel that if I spend almost �2000 I should have to remedy it myself and just accept it.

It doesn't *have* to be perfectly quiet, but that's one of the reasons I bought it...

James

[wildcard]

I didn't have the fan issues that you were reporting with your rev A. Powerbook...I have the luxury of getting to pick the brain of actual Apple employees about some of this stuff (no, I do NOT get any info on new products or software, so do not ask!!! )

As a result, I've gotten to play with a variety of Apple laptops, Ibooks and Powerbooks. And while Apple doesn't seem to deal well with issues like the Tibook paint or the Firebook fans while they are happening with rev A. products, they tend to get in right with rev B or subsequent product.

I think that your choice of the 1.25 Ghz Albook will be one you're happy with, as it's one of thos products that benefitted from Apple going through the issues with the 12" Firebooks.

[Phat Bastard]

Sorry if I sounded belligerent, I was just voicing my frustration at everyone who posts messages talking about how hot the 12"ers run when I've never had a problem with it myself. It wasn't personal.

There are factors beyond the price of a computer that influence my decision in buying it, and each possible choice of a laptop is going to have problems or inadequacies. For me, the 12" was perfect mostly because of its size and weight, and I am willing to make do with the heat issue. I used to have a 15" Titanium Powerbook and I thought it was too bulky to carry around in my knapsack, so I wanted to something smaller. Sure, the 12" isn't perfect and I have to deal with the heat issue, but it is the best computer I've ever owned regardless of that.

If you think that the advantages of the 12" are overshadowed by the heat problem, then by all means change to the 15", which as you can see from others here, apparently doesn't have this heat issue. But there could be other disadvantages to having the 15" which might crop up in the future (for me it would be the size). The 15" certainly has a fan of its own, and if you work on the thing for hours on end on a surface that doesn't allow air circulation, I guarantee the fan will come on and thus the noise will go up. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by thisisjames:
PB, this was why I was asking everyone, I don't want to judge all of Apple's present and future products based on my limited experience. However, I don't feel that if I spend almost �2000 I should have to remedy it myself and just accept it.

It doesn't *have* to be perfectly quiet, but that's one of the reasons I bought it...

James

[thisisjames]

I know, and I appreciate your opinion on the matter... but if you look back to my original post, I was moaning about the noise, not the heat. The heat was perfectly bearable before the 10.3.2 upgrade, and I was aware of it before I bought the PowerBook. My real moan is the fact that now what I knew as a silent but hot laptop (which was fine) is now a slighly cooler but much louder one. I didn't want the same situation to arise again!

That's all

James