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KeilwerthSX90R · Oct 30, 2003, 08:54 PM

I'm looking at getting a 17" PB but I'd prefer to get a used Rev. A. Other than a different processor what were the major changes. For my laptop uses the upgraded process isn't worth the money so are there any other compelling reasons to buy a Rev. B?

I did a brief search and didn't find anything but if this is dicussed somewhere else please point me in that direction.

Josh

acadian · Oct 30, 2003, 09:17 PM

Better video card, USB 2, L2 cache, faster superdrive with DVD RW capability.

iDaver · Oct 30, 2003, 09:44 PM

It's hotter, so if you don't need the speed or the other upgrades mentioned above, you'd probably be better off with the used rev A model if you can find one in good shape with no dead pixels, etc.

I got one of the rev B 17" models and I kinda wish I'd stuck with my 15" Ti awhile longer.

Daniel Bayer · Oct 30, 2003, 10:09 PM

Don't forget 2Gb of ram. I have been waiting for a good year for this one.

I upgraded from my 1ghz ti and find a really nice difference in performance. I have added a 7200 rpm drive too which would make any portable scream.

Heat is just not an issue on this machine like it was on my old ti 400 or even my 1ghz.

Forget the rev a, there is a rev b for a reason.

Great performance in a really sturdy package.

vandelay · Oct 30, 2003, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by iDaver:
It's hotter, so if you don't need the speed or the other upgrades mentioned above, you'd probably be better off with the used rev A model if you can find one in good shape with no dead pixels, etc.

I got one of the rev B 17" models and I kinda wish I'd stuck with my 15" Ti awhile longer.

Can somebody offer a bit more info as far as heat is concerned? Is it just a little more, or is it really a drastic difference compared to rev A?

iDaver · Oct 30, 2003, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by vandelay:
Can somebody offer a bit more info as far as heat is concerned? Is it just a little more, or is it really a drastic difference compared to rev A?

The only thing I have to compare it to is my 667 DVI Ti and the 17" rev B is a lot hotter. I don't know how Daniel can say it's not even an issue.

Ok, he probably doesn't use it on his lap, in which case I suppose it's not an issue. The computer is not very hot on top; only on the bottom.

SEkker · Oct 31, 2003, 10:51 AM

Is the superdrive really different in terms of hardware or firmware? I believe Panther allows DVD-RW capability, and there is a firmware upgrade for the revA PB superdrive.

krux` · Oct 31, 2003, 11:12 AM

What does Rev mean?

iDaver · Oct 31, 2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by krux`:
What does Rev mean?

Revision.

Scooterboy · Oct 31, 2003, 11:31 AM

Of course a 1.33 GHz 17" G4 will be hotter than a 667 MHz G4 TiBook.

I'd expect the revision b 17" PowerBook to run cooler than the revision a 17", or at the worst just as hot.

The revision b uses a G4 processor that is lower power (produces less heat) than the G4 in the first run 17". The newer G4 has twice the level 2 cache and other improvements which gives higher performance. It also now has a faster system bus of 167 MHz vs the former's 133 MHz, and a much better video card, the State of the Art Mobility Radeon 9600. I'd most definately buy the newest version of the 17" PowerBook over the older version. Out of the current PowerBooks the newest 17" is the one I'd buy if I had the cash. I prefer the 15", but that model has some teething problems and I never buy first releases of any Mac.

Badwisdom · Oct 31, 2003, 11:32 AM

i have a PB 17 Rev B and have been using it for close to a month. I had it on my lap yesterday evening surfing on the Net using the Airport connection. I was wearing jeans. I couldnt feel the heat either on the bottom case, or on the top. I used it close to over 45mins with the batteries.

Ive also used it on mains on my lap watching a DVD and have never felt any heat at all. Its warm of course, but nothing more.

Ive never tried it with rendering video or playing games, so i cant comment on the heat issue while doing those things.

Daniel Bayer · 02:23 PM

Sorry iDaver, you must have got as my mother would tell in me in my youth, the "Boobie prize".

Mine only gets more than warm when I am doing something like batch converting 2-3GB of photoshop files from CMYK back to RGB. Then it gets kinda hot under the left side, front and back becuase of boat loads of read / writes going on. The is all on my lap of course.

For what it is worth. the new Hitachi 60gb 7200 rpm drive is the quietest I have EVER used.

Mybe the heat will go up when it has 2gb of ram in it but I am not too worried about it.

P.S. iDaver, What part of Colorado are you in? I am up I am up in Aspen...maybe these things run cooler up here

....the dryness is starting to get me a bit parched.

LfGrdMike · Oct 31, 2003, 02:21 PM

Most people can do with 1 gig of ram buddy. Most don't need the 2 gigs.

Daniel Bayer · Oct 31, 2003, 02:25 PM

Yep...most. But not all.

Most folks arent printing a 300-800 MB file to an epson large format printer either.

Most people thought 128MB was O.K. for photoshop 5.5 too.

I am not most buddy...

iDaver · Oct 31, 2003, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Daniel Bayer:
Sorry iDaver, you must have got as my mother would tell in me in my youth, the "Boobie prize".

P.S. iDaver, What part of Colorado are you in? I am up I am up in Aspen...maybe these things run cooler up here

I guess hot is a relative term. I just think it's warm enough so that it's uncomfortable after a half hour on my lap. I suppose I shouldn't call it hot.

I live in East Vail; roughly the same altitude/climate.

djjava · Oct 31, 2003, 02:59 PM

did they move the power supply socket away from the locking slot? there was an issue what that on the RevA.

MichiganRich · Nov 1, 2003, 12:31 AM

I just got a used G4 17" PowerBook rev. A. You're right about the 'better' video card (ATI now, nVidia before), but you're just plain wrong about the bus speed. The 17" is 167mhz from the very first model. Furthermore, while there is twice as much L2 cache in the new ones, Apple has removed the Level 3 cache, which in the rev. A model is a full 1MB. The System Profiler don't lie.....

This PowerBook is awesome. I bought it from a guy who wasn't really a Mac-head for $1500. It's like new. I wasn't really looking for a PB after the purchase of my base model G5 1.6, but I couldn't pass up the deal. I've got it wireless (just about an hour ago) with a new Belkin 802.11g wireless router, and NOW i can see why people like laptops. It's not as fast as my G5, but I can't surf the web from my bed with that enormous chunk of chiseled aluminum.

iDaver · Nov 1, 2003, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by MichiganRich:
This PowerBook is awesome. I bought it from a guy who wasn't really a Mac-head for $1500. It's like new...I've got it wireless (just about an hour ago) with a new Belkin 802.11g wireless router, and NOW i can see why people like laptops. It's not as fast as my G5, but I can't surf the web from my bed with that enormous chunk of chiseled aluminum.

Great deal! You'll never be chained to that desk again! Congrats! Odds are you'll sell that tower before long.

iohead · Nov 1, 2003, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by KeilwerthSX90R:
I'm looking at getting a 17" PB but I'd prefer to get a used Rev. A. Other than a different processor what were the major changes. For my laptop uses the upgraded process isn't worth the money so are there any other compelling reasons to buy a Rev. B?

I did a brief search and didn't find anything but if this is dicussed somewhere else please point me in that direction.

Josh

The "new" PB17 has the following differences as compared to the previous one:

* 1.33 GHZ Processor (1 GHz earlier)
* 512 KB L2 Cache (256 KB earlier)
* No L3 Cache (1 MB earlier)
* 2X DVD burning (1X earlier)
* 80 GB disk drive, with 8 MB buffer (60 GB with 2 MB buffer earlier), option of 5400 RPM
* ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 Graphics (NVidia 440 Go earlier)
* USB 2.0 (USB 1.x only earlier)
* 6.9 lbs (6.8 lbs earlier)
* 58 watt-hour battery (55 watt-hour ealier)

As you can see, although most changes are not very substantial by themselves, the whole package is considerably better, at least in my opinion.

It does get slightly (really, only slightly) warmer than the revision A. The speed difference (due to the CPU and the disk) is perceptible often.

Finally, note that 2 GB RAM is not a distinguishing factor - both the revision A and B use the same memory (PC2700 333 MHz DDR SDRAM 200 pin SO-DIMM). It's just that 1 GB sticks have become more commonplace. In other words, the revision A would house 2 GB as well.

I've owned both, BTW.

Here's a link to my "updated" review of the revision B:

http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/pb17/index2.html

-A

iDaver · Nov 1, 2003, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by iohead:
The "new" PB17 has the following differences as compared to the previous one:

* 1.33 GHZ Processor (1 GHz earlier)
* 512 KB L2 Cache (256 KB earlier)
* No L3 Cache (1 MB earlier)
* 2X DVD burning (1X earlier)
* 80 GB disk drive, with 8 MB buffer (60 GB with 2 MB buffer earlier), option of 5400 RPM
* ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 Graphics (NVidia 440 Go earlier)
* USB 2.0 (USB 1.x only earlier)
* 6.9 lbs (6.8 lbs earlier)
* 58 watt-hour battery (55 watt-hour ealier)

Iohead, those specs look right except for the drive. Mine came with the FUJITSU MHT2080AT which has a 2 MB buffer, not the 8 MB you've listed. I suppose it's possible some of the stock models come with the drive you're listing.

Funny, I had heard this rumor elsewhere but I haven't seen it in Apple's specs.

iohead · Nov 1, 2003, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by iDaver:
Iohead, those specs look right except for the drive. Mine came with the FUJITSU MHT2080AT which has a 2 MB buffer, not the 8 MB you've listed. I suppose it's possible some of the stock models come with the drive you're listing.

Funny, I had heard this rumor elsewhere but I haven't seen it in Apple's specs.

That's weird - Fujitsu's website lists the MHT2080AT as having an 8 MB buffer:

http://www.fcpa.fujitsu.com/products...fications.html

-A

pamelah · Nov 1, 2003, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by iDaver:
It's hotter, so if you don't need the speed or the other upgrades mentioned above, you'd probably be better off with the used rev A model if you can find one in good shape with no dead pixels, etc.

I got one of the rev B 17" models and I kinda wish I'd stuck with my 15" Ti awhile longer.

My rev b is WAY cooler than my rev a so this isn't necessarily true.

iDaver · Nov 1, 2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by iohead:
That's weird - Fujitsu's website lists the MHT2080AT as having an 8 MB buffer:

http://www.fcpa.fujitsu.com/products...fications.html

Very weird because this page doesn't.
http://www.fel.fujitsu.com/home/prod...D=347&INFO=fsp

iohead · Nov 1, 2003, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by iDaver:
Very weird because this page doesn't.
http://www.fel.fujitsu.com/home/prod...D=347&INFO=fsp

Yeah it's not good that Fujitsu has two different specification pages for the same drive on their website, with conflicting information.

Aside from this, have you actually verified that your drive has 2 MB buffer and not 8 MB?

I don't have the Fujitsu, but the Hitachi IC25N080AT. The following information is dumped by "hdparm" (a low level disk drive utility):

Model: Hitachi IC25N080ATMR04-0
Firmware Revision: M04AAD0A
Buffer Type: Dual Port Cache
Buffer Size: 7884 KB

I don't think Apple would install an "inferior" drive in some units. If they did, it's not fair to those who got them! My guess would be that the Fujitsu page that lists a 2 MB buffer is incorrect. Then again, what if it isn't?

-A

iDaver · Nov 1, 2003, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by iohead:
I don't have the Fujitsu, but the Hitachi IC25N080AT. The following information is dumped by "hdparm" (a low level disk drive utility):

Model: Hitachi IC25N080ATMR04-0
Firmware Revision: M04AAD0A
Buffer Type: Dual Port Cache
Buffer Size: 7884 KB

Got hdparm but wasn't able to figure out how to get such stats out of it. It was all greek to me.

naphtali · Apr 1, 2004, 08:13 PM

Can anyone please tell me if the 1.33GHz 17" can burn DVD-RW discs? I've looked at Apple's Developer notes:

15"

17"

While they clearly state that the new 15" can burn DVD-RWs, it doesn't do so for the 17".

Is that the final answer? Or did Apple just leave it out?

Krauti · Apr 2, 2004, 08:44 AM

Of course it's DVD-RW too, it's the same drive as in the 15" after all...

moodymonster · Apr 2, 2004, 12:06 PM

I've had a rev b with a 5400rpm drive for about 3/4 months now. In my experience the heat produced is just above body temp and is centered mainly on the left-center-rear bottom, of the pbook. However if is used for something such as FinalCut rendering it does get uncomfortably hot if you have it on your lap. For the rest of the time though, it seems to get a certain temp and stay there regardless how long it is run for. The only time the fan comes on is when rendering FC projects.

I also fitted an extra 512Mb chip and noticed no increase in temp after doing so.

I would prefer it to be a G5, but I don't think there's many areas where that would affect me at the moment. The pb is set to auto power mode and most of the time runs the G4 processor at the reduced setting.

Crusoe · Apr 2, 2004, 01:23 PM

A few other notes, need someone with a Rev B to confirm some of them:

They changed the fan to not "pulse"
The speakers no longer "pop" when awoken.
Graphics chip is much better for gaming (I had a 15" Al), if you don't game this is a non issue.

As for DVD-RW, the drive that's in Rev A can be patched to double it's speed and uncripple it.
http://superdrive.cynikal.net/

Regards

megasad · 06:18 PM

Originally posted by iohead:
Here's a link to my "updated" review of the revision B:

http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/pb17/index2.html

On that page, you say the following:

...the feature that really takes the cake is... you can hot-swap the battery! ...There is an internal standby battery that keeps everything alive for enough time (1-3 minutes) for you to change the battery.

Is this real? How come I've never heard of it before? Why doesn't Apple make a bigger deal of this? Does anyone know if the iBook G4 can do this as well? The 12" and 15" PowerBooks? Or is it limited to the 17"? I'm just damn amazed by it is all. Does the sleep LED keep glowing whilst there is no battery in there? Please, someone with a 12" PowerBook try it and see if it works.

[Edit: Never mind, I used the search function and found out it doesn't work in the 12". Oh well.]