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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > 1 in 5 Americans believe the Sun revolves around the Earth

1 in 5 Americans believe the Sun revolves around the Earth
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nonhuman
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Jul 6, 2007, 10:57 AM
 
1 in 5 Americans believe Sun revolves around the Earth

"American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century." Said Jon D. Miller, a political scientists who directs the Center for Biomedical Communications at the Northwestern University Medical School in Chicago, he regularly surveys Americans for his clients which include the National Science Foundation on the public’s knowledge and attitudes towards science in general.
I mean, lets be honest, if you don’t know what a ****ing cell is how can you understand what stem cell research is enough to vote on it?
And according to this guy most Americans don’t know what a cell is.
Clearly, there is something wrong with our education system. We need to look at issues beyond public vs. private and how well students perform on standardized tests. The problems go far deeper than that, and we need to figure out why. What we need, is a way that we can encourage students to actually want to learn.
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:00 AM
 
No wonder I'm a pessimist. Makes me think of Einstein: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

I would like to see what this test looked like. Multiple choice? True/False? No answers given at all?
     
Atheist
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
1 in 5 Americans believe Sun revolves around the Earth



Clearly, there is something wrong with our education system. We need to look at issues beyond public vs. private and how well students perform on standardized tests. The problems go far deeper than that, and we need to figure out why. What we need, is a way that we can encourage students to actually want to learn.
As long as the 1 in 5 doesn't vote, I'm fine with it. You can't fix everything. There are idiots everywhere you go. Contrary to what many would like to believe, some humans are inferior to others.
     
Doofy
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:08 AM
 
The Sun actually *does* revolve around the Earth.

Anyone who doesn't think so needs an IQ boost and a lesson in spatial relationships.

Think about it. Then get back to me.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
nonhuman  (op)
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
The Sun actually *does* revolve around the Earth.

Anyone who doesn't think so needs an IQ boost and a lesson in spatial relationships.

Think about it. Then get back to me.
Actually the Sun and the Earth both revolve around a point somewhere between the two. The Sun being vastly more massive than the Earth that point is much much closer to the Sun than it is to the Earth. The difference in mass may even be so great that the point about which the both orbit is within the Sun itself, in which case it would be entirely accurate to say that the Earth revolves around the Sun while the Sun merely wobbles a bit in its orbit.

Of course this relationship is significantly complicated by the gravitational interactions of other bodies in the solar system.

Unless you're talking about The Sun. Or, I suppose, if you're referring to frames of reference...
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:16 AM
 
It'll be some lame hairsplitting.
     
Doofy
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Or, I suppose, if you're referring to frames of reference...
Of course. It all depends on what you take as the static point in the Universe.

If I take it to be, say, me then when I get in the Doofmobile to go to the pub then the Earth is revolving around me. As is the Sun. And all the honeys at the pub.

It's all relative to whatever point you take to be the fixed, static axis.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Doofy
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
It's all relative to whatever point you take to be the fixed, static axis.
...which most certainly isn't Dakara's brain.

Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Of course. It all depends on what you take as the static point in the Universe.

If I take it to be, say, me then when I get in the Doofmobile to go to the pub then the Earth is revolving around me. As is the Sun. And all the honeys at the pub.

It's all relative to whatever point you take to be the fixed, static axis.
I'm sure that's what the people who got it wrong were taught in school.
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
...which most certainly isn't Dakara's brain.

Wow, by brain isn't static and fixed. So burned.
     
nonhuman  (op)
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Of course. It all depends on what you take as the static point in the Universe.

If I take it to be, say, me then when I get in the Doofmobile to go to the pub then the Earth is revolving around me. As is the Sun. And all the honeys at the pub.

It's all relative to whatever point you take to be the fixed, static axis.
Ok then smartypants, explain to me the retrograde motion of Mars.
     
Doofy
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
I'm sure that's what the people who got it wrong were taught in school.
Really, go grab an orrery, wind it up and hold it (static, fixed point) by the Earth. Does the Sun revolve around the Earth? Yes.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Powerbook
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
As long as the 1 in 5 doesn't vote, I'm fine with it. You can't fix everything. There are idiots everywhere you go. Contrary to what many would like to believe, some humans are inferior to others.
Don't count on it. In fact I'd figure those 1 in 5 are jointly responsible for "mighty-patriotic-hurray-politics" that waste thousands of lifes in "Iwaq", instead of pursuing a _consistent_ way.

PB.
Aut Caesar aut nihil.
     
nonhuman  (op)
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Really, go grab an orrery, wind it up and hold it (static, fixed point) by the Earth. Does the Sun revolve around the Earth? Yes.
I think that in most cases the Earth will just break off and go flying out into deep space while the rest of the solar system continues to orbit along it merry way.
     
Doofy
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Ok then smartypants, explain to me the retrograde motion of Mars.
I can't be bothered to explain retrograde motions in relationship to this (meaning: I'm listening to Manowar and have Ted the wolverine cat on my knee ripping my skin off). But suffice it to say that Mars also revolves around the Doof's manhood in the Earth is the axis model, eventually. Even Ted knows this... ...or he wouldn't be sitting so close to the axis in order to prevent motion sickness.
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That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Doofy
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
Wow, by brain isn't static and fixed. So burned.
Touché.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Really, go grab an orrery, wind it up and hold it (static, fixed point) by the Earth. Does the Sun revolve around the Earth? Yes.
Once again, I'm sure that's what the people who got it wrong were taught in school...
     
Doofy
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
Once again, I'm sure that's what the people who got it wrong were taught in school...
Once again, no.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Powerbook View Post
Don't count on it. In fact I'd figure those 1 in 5 are jointly responsible for "mighty-patriotic-hurray-politics" that waste thousands of lifes in "Iwaq", instead of pursuing a _consistent_ way.

PB.
I'd have to agree with Atheist on this one. These are the people who stumble through life, one paycheck away from disaster, even though they can always find $5 for a pack of cigarettes, and who are no doubt most likely to be high school dropouts, or those who barely made it through. This is the National Enquirer/Jerry Springer crowd.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Once again, no.
Exactly! They weren't taught that in school, they were taught the earth revolves around the sun.
     
Doofy
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
Exactly! They weren't taught that in school, they were taught the earth revolves around the sun.
No, you've lost me there ducks. I'm having an attack of the Friday afternoons.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:52 AM
 
Your point: The sun revolves around the sun from a certain perspective
My point: That's not what the people who were surveyed were taught, so they're still wrong, regardless of what you think of the answer.
     
Doofy
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
Your point: The sun revolves around the sun from a certain perspective
My point: That's not what the people who were surveyed were taught, so they're still wrong, regardless of what you think of the answer.
Get ya. Yep. Concur.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jul 6, 2007, 06:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Clearly, there is something wrong with our education system.
Education only cures ignorance. Nothing can cure stupidity.
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 6, 2007, 07:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Education only cures ignorance. Nothing can cure stupidity.
Obviously you've neglected to consider death.
     
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Jul 6, 2007, 07:13 PM
 
Aw, screw it. Let's all ride to the pub in the Doofy-mobile.

I call dibs on the redheaded chicks
     
tie
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Jul 6, 2007, 09:18 PM
 
I'm a conservative (i.e., think people are basically good, unlike those slimey liberals). Therefore, I tend to take these surveys with a grain of salt. Obviously the people taking the survey are just playing around; they don't seriously think the sun revolves around the earth.
The 4 o'clock train will be a bus.
It will depart at 20 minutes to 5.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jul 6, 2007, 09:36 PM
 
wtf? have I been away from here that long?
*you* are a conservative?
say it isn't so.
Geez. That's no different than me thinking about saving whales and reducing my carbon footprint.
I'm counting on both you and besson3c to argue against me.
If that doesn't happen, my life is meaningless.

wait a minute. Listen
Hear that?
That's the sound of a fuel-injected V12 XJS. I'm gonna let it idle until you convert back to the liberal ideology.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jul 6, 2007, 09:41 PM
 
....probably killed half a dozen polar bears by now.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jul 6, 2007, 09:41 PM
 
hurry up, dammit. Only got a quarter tank of gas.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jul 6, 2007, 09:43 PM
 
OK, look. You've got an hour before I trade it in on an older model XJS with the 6 Stromberg carburetors and NO 3-way catalytic converters.
     
Kerrigan
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Jul 6, 2007, 09:54 PM
 
Something like 1/5 Americans also come from Mexico.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jul 6, 2007, 09:56 PM
 
whoa

*SMACKDOWN*

hellyeah
     
Wiskedjak
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Jul 6, 2007, 11:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
As long as the 1 in 5 doesn't vote, I'm fine with it. You can't fix everything.
It's possible that they're more likely to vote than the 4 who got the question right
     
smacintush
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Jul 7, 2007, 04:49 AM
 
A recent study also concluded that men talk just as much as women…

I'll take these things with a grain of salt as well.
Being in debt and celebrating a lower deficit is like being on a diet and celebrating the fact you gained two pounds this week instead of five.
     
ebuddy
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Jul 7, 2007, 07:23 AM
 
Apparently 3 in 5 people believe everything they read on the internet.

no actual poll cited + no survey stats + no demographic + heavy political pandering = complete BS.

I don't buy it, not for a minute.
ebuddy
     
ebuddy
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Jul 7, 2007, 07:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
It's possible that they're more likely to vote than the 4 who got the question right
Statistically, this is incorrect. The primary factor differentiating voters from non-voters in the US is education. The more educated one is, the more likely they are to vote. In other words, it's more likely the one who got the question wrong will not vote. Assuming the survey is correct, I thank God for our voting demographic.
ebuddy
     
ebuddy
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Jul 7, 2007, 07:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
even though they can always find $5 for a pack of cigarettes...
WildHorse Ultra-Light 100s are less than $2.00/pack and every bit as pleasant as Marlboro Ultra-Lights 100s.
ebuddy
     
CollinG3G4
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Jul 21, 2007, 12:02 PM
 
Be a real American and roll your own cigs!
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Jul 21, 2007, 12:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Clearly, there is something wrong with our education system.
I don't think that is the only problem, there seems to be some sort of stupid gene involved also..
     
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Jul 21, 2007, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
I don't think that is the only problem, there seems to be some sort of stupid gene involved also..
Since I'm busy quoting Wilde anyway, let me add this one:
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
And before anyone accuses me of bashing Americans, I'm sure he meant it as a joke.
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Jul 21, 2007, 01:53 PM
 
     
nonhuman  (op)
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Jul 21, 2007, 08:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Apparently 3 in 5 people believe everything they read on the internet.

no actual poll cited + no survey stats + no demographic + heavy political pandering = complete BS.

I don't buy it, not for a minute.
Actually the writer does attribute his sources. You just have to actually look for it...

SOURCE: SCIENTIFIC SAVVY? IN U.S., NOT MUCH, NEW YORK TIMES, AUGUST 30, 2005
     
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Jul 21, 2007, 11:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Actually the writer does attribute his sources. You just have to actually look for it...
Looks to me like he said poll, survey stats, demographics, not source.
     
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Jul 22, 2007, 12:11 AM
 
Actually you are wrong doofy. This is the order of the planets starting with the one closest to the sun. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto. Our planet is actually in the perfect place because its not too far away from the sun like Mars but not too close to the sun like Mercury. We don't need more standardized testing. We just need a chart in the classroom that shows the planets for children. As long as we don't impose our wacky theories on them.
     
nonhuman  (op)
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Jul 22, 2007, 01:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
Looks to me like he said poll, survey stats, demographics, not source.
Yes, well if you look up the source that he quoted you'll find all those other things as well...

Admittedly this makes it seem as though the author made the mistake of relying on someone else's interpretation of the data, but it still gives us the opportunity to see where he got his information and see where his source got their information, and to see the raw data and decide for ourselves.
     
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Jul 22, 2007, 04:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by ApeInTheShell View Post
Actually you are wrong doofy. This is the order of the planets starting with the one closest to the sun. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto. Our planet is actually in the perfect place because its not too far away from the sun like Mars but not too close to the sun like Mercury. We don't need more standardized testing. We just need a chart in the classroom that shows the planets for children. As long as we don't impose our wacky theories on them.
Not to nitpick, but speaking of old science...

What about Pluto and Charon's ambiguity, and Ceres and Eris, and so forth?
     
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Jul 22, 2007, 04:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Actually the Sun and the Earth both revolve around a point somewhere between the two. The Sun being vastly more massive than the Earth that point is much much closer to the Sun than it is to the Earth. The difference in mass may even be so great that the point about which the both orbit is within the Sun itself, in which case it would be entirely accurate to say that the Earth revolves around the Sun while the Sun merely wobbles a bit in its orbit.

Of course this relationship is significantly complicated by the gravitational interactions of other bodies in the solar system.

Unless you're talking about The Sun. Or, I suppose, if you're referring to frames of reference...
For the record, the earth-sun barycenter is indeed inside the sun.
     
goMac
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Jul 22, 2007, 05:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Of course. It all depends on what you take as the static point in the Universe.

If I take it to be, say, me then when I get in the Doofmobile to go to the pub then the Earth is revolving around me. As is the Sun. And all the honeys at the pub.

It's all relative to whatever point you take to be the fixed, static axis.
Actually, I hate to say it... but...

As anyone with an engineering physics background should know, this is a legitimate argument. Issues in physics are addressed this way, by actually making a moving object your point of reference, and then the moving object is still while things are moving past it.

Not that I think that's the argument that people who failed this test made, but it's a legitimate academic argument none the less.
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ebuddy
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Jul 22, 2007, 01:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Yes, well if you look up the source that he quoted you'll find all those other things as well...
Really? Unless you've paid the $7.95 to read the Abstract, I'm not sure how you'd know this. I'm not able to find it any other way. It should be noted however that "Dr. Miller" enjoys funding from various sources for his research. For credibilities' sake, it is often good information to have. When it's provided of course.

Admittedly this makes it seem as though the author made the mistake of relying on someone else's interpretation of the data, but it still gives us the opportunity to see where he got his information and see where his source got their information, and to see the raw data and decide for ourselves.
I'm glad this is important to you now. It didn't seem to me you were very interested in validating any of the claims by openly supplying any of this information in the first place and neither did the article to which you linked. Usually, I've had good luck finding original survey/polling data. In this case for whatever reason, it is not as readily available.

NEW YORK TIMES is not a science publication nor is it an educational endeavor. I've looked and have yet to see any raw data in order to decide for myself. I'm not saying it's not true, but I'd like more information to make an educated decision.
ebuddy
     
 
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