Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > Apple Motion

Apple Motion
Thread Tools
dole
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 03:28 PM
 
http://www.apple.com/motion/

Introducing Motion, the only motion graphics package with real-time previews, procedural behavior animation and Final Cut Pro HD integration.

I have no use for it, but looks pretty cool though
     
dole  (op)
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 03:50 PM
 
I'm not sure if this was mentioned before, but they also released something called Xsan.

http://www.apple.com/xsan/
     
MOTHERWELL
Senior User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 03:57 PM
 
aka

'Apple Effects'
     
Cadaver
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ~/
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 05:25 PM
 
What upsets me is the intolerance of competition in the software market. I'm fully expecting Adobe to discontinue Mac development on After Effects.

Similar to how Microsoft will use its sheer size (and documented-illegal monopoly) to steamroll over any competition attempt, Adobe seems like the kind of company that would tuck tail and give up rather than attempt to compete.

But either way, large software companies - companies with a product that has established dominance in a category - wont even attempt competition. Apparently its easier to leave a market than attempt to compete by producing a better product (again, assuming Adobe will eventually abandon After Effects much the way they did with Premiere). Seems to work in every other market except software.

Only the small software companies seem like they tolerate (even thrive) on competition. Filemaker, Unsanity, Panic, Karelia, Mozilla group, Omni, etc...

[I'd consider moving to Linux, but problem is, despite all the competition, there are few commercial-quality applications. Too much in the Linux world seems only 90% finished.]

I'm trying not to over-react, since Adobe has said nothing about dropping Mac AE support, but I'm looking into my crystal ball and I see it happening. Why - because Apple might have a superior product.

Could you imagine what would happen if Apple released a product that competed with Photoshop Elements?

Hopefully, the rumors about the Microsoft Mac B.U.'s push forward on PowerPoint 2004 in light of Keynote is true. And here's to Keynote 2.0. And on, and on... See, competition is good.

Okeedokey. End of rant.
     
Chinasaur
Senior User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Out West Somewhere....
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 05:33 PM
 
What exactly do you do with it? What is it?
iMac - Late 2015 iMac, 32GB RAM
MacBook - 2010 MacBook, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM
     
OwlBoy
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Madison, WI
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 05:58 PM
 
Motion Graphics

[edit: arg, I am babbling ]

This whole HD update is SWEEEEET. I am so happy HD editing is available for the relatively low cost.

-Owl
     
Mr Scruff
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 06:00 PM
 
Originally posted by Cadaver:
What upsets me is the intolerance of competition in the software market. I'm fully expecting Adobe to discontinue Mac development on After Effects.

Similar to how Microsoft will use its sheer size (and documented-illegal monopoly) to steamroll over any competition attempt, Adobe seems like the kind of company that would tuck tail and give up rather than attempt to compete.
I agree with the gist of your post, but there is another angle to this where Apple appears to be creating a lot of software on the creative pro side of things which are designed to make the platform attractive. In this sense they're not competing on a level playing field, since they don't have to concern themselves with profits as much.

There is also the thorny issue of whether the in-house developers get preferential treatment from the OS guys. I think this is also a fair point.
     
drewm
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 06:15 PM
 
Does anybody know if Motion is the product of an acquisition or did Apple write it from the ground up? just curious.
     
Truepop
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 06:40 PM
 
Originally posted by drewm:
Does anybody know if Motion is the product of an acquisition or did Apple write it from the ground up? just curious.
to me it seems like an extension of LiveType. ad motion to graphics and text instead of just text but then again I haven't read in to it too much.
     
hmurchison2001
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 06:53 PM
 
No livetypes code wouldn't really enter into it. I would assume that code from Shake as well as Rayz are being used. Motion may be cheap @ $299 but it's hardware requirements are steep(fast GPU and 2Ghz Duallie) so therefore it's not going due too much damage to AE. Besides AE isn't going anywhere if they're making a profit. Just like PS, AE users have thousands of dollars in plugins that they just won't throw away to use Apple's new baby.
     
Graymalkin
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: ~/
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 06:55 PM
 
<baleted>
( Last edited by Graymalkin; Apr 18, 2004 at 07:14 PM. )
     
SomeToast
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: California - Bay Area
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 07:19 PM
 
Originally posted by Cadaver:
But either way, large software companies - companies with a product that has established dominance in a category - wont even attempt competition. Apparently its easier to leave a market than attempt to compete by producing a better product (again, assuming Adobe will eventually abandon After Effects much the way they did with Premiere). Seems to work in every other market except software.
So if a company has a dominant product in a market, no other company should even think of producing a product to compete with it? And if a company does come up with a product that's superior to the established leader, the leader should just take their ball and go home? That doesn't make sense for either party.

If Motion proves to be superior to AE, it's Adobe's task to improve AE (fortunately, After Effects is nowhere near the train wreck that Premiere was).
     
SomeToast
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: California - Bay Area
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 07:22 PM
 
Originally posted by hmurchison2001:
Just like PS, AE users have thousands of dollars in plugins that they just won't throw away to use Apple's new baby.
Fortunately, AE plug-ins are supposed to work with Motion.
     
Horsepoo!!!
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 08:04 PM
 
Originally posted by SomeToast:
Fortunately, AE plug-ins are supposed to work with Motion.
Yes...hopefully they work well.

And if Adobe drops After Effect support...good riddance. I hate Adobe's attitude. Either way, we win. Apple needs money. Apple needs to show that the Mac platform is better. Adobe After Effect is available on Mac and PC with feature parity so it doesn't show what the Mac can do. Apple is able to deliver that. And its software is well integrated with OS and other pro apps it delivers.

Like I said...we win and Adobe loses. Either they try to compete or they pack their bags.

The AE plugin support is essential and will make it easy for AE users to make the switch.
     
hmurchison2001
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 08:16 PM
 
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here people. AE isn't going anywhere. Note the missing items of Motion. Did you see a Motion Tracker(AE strength) or Painting capabilities? Motion also doesn't have the 3D space that AE offers.

What I think you'll see here with Motion is an app that excels in areas that blow AE out the water for speed. However it's a version 1 product..it's going to have gaping holes that AE users cannot do without. I'm excited nonetheless. FCP users need better compositing but Apple couldn't afford to add Motion as part of FCP but they at least priced it affordable.
     
RooneyX
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 08:56 PM
 
Apple's multimedia and film software looks more professional and powerful than Adobe's offerings. If they can create a photo editor better than Photoshop with a better price then the Mac platform becomes more attractive. They certainly are acquiring some incredible software and even better developers. Adobe's software has only gradually improved over many years. They've charged terrible prices for only a few features each time.

Can't wait to get rid of Microsoft's app from my system. I'd like a word processing app that replaces both Word (sluggish) and Final Draft (each update has more bugs than the last. In version 7 the Find fuction didn't work!).

As long as we don't have file formats that are completely unreadable by non-Mac users.
     
DeathMan
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Capitol City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 11:05 PM
 
The lack of competition in the areas of creative content creation has caused Adobe apps to suffer from a mediocre feature list given the time and resources available to Adobe. Part of this as explained before is the "Feature Parity" Adobe is trying to keep between platforms. However, it seems dumb to me to not use advanced features available to an OS just because you can't easily recreate that on the other platform. Looking from the PC side, its not like PC users have anywhere to go, if Adobe were to to add features that were Mac only.

I think Adobe just feel like they're entitled to this market, and if someone comes in from a marketshare of zero, and is able to kill off your whole product in a matter of a year, well, you were doing something wrong. And I'm not talking about iMovie being free, I'm talking about FCP which costs more, but took the market by storm.

Adobe has been lazy, and now either they'll put up, or shut up.
     
Horsepoo!!!
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 11:08 PM
 
Originally posted by hmurchison2001:
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here people. AE isn't going anywhere. Note the missing items of Motion. Did you see a Motion Tracker(AE strength) or Painting capabilities? Motion also doesn't have the 3D space that AE offers.

What I think you'll see here with Motion is an app that excels in areas that blow AE out the water for speed. However it's a version 1 product..it's going to have gaping holes that AE users cannot do without. I'm excited nonetheless. FCP users need better compositing but Apple couldn't afford to add Motion as part of FCP but they at least priced it affordable.
Well...AE is going where Adobe wants it to go. If Adobe wants it to go away on the Mac, there's nothing we can do.

I understand what you mean though by "AE isn't going anywhere." No...it won't go anywhere just yet. People moving from AE to Motion won't happen overnight. Motion is still in it's infancy. If Adobe says "no more AE for you (Mac users)", people will still be able to use the current version for years to come. But during those years, Apple will improve and refine Motion until there's no doubt in people's minds that Motion is the better product.

It's up to Adobe to keep what they have...or throw it all away. If they quit now, they've lost (well...the Mac market at least.) If Adobe ever tries to re-enter the Mac market in a few years, they'll have a lot of trouble.
     
jwblase
Senior User
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: The workshop of the TARDIS...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 11:29 PM
 
Remember what happened when Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro were in their v1.0 incarnations: People thought that they were good programs, but there were other, better options available, and Apple could always do better.

Well, here we are, several years and several versions later, and now there are MANY folks who cannot do without either FCP or DVDSP. The same thing will happen with Motion. People will try it, some will like it, some will not. Apple will make improvements. More will like it. Apple will make more improvements.

Apple's pro software is becoming like Adobe's used to be: Standardized interfaces and seamless performance across the product line. Now, if only Apple learns from Adobe's mistakes and doesn't start adding in useless "features" and charging hundreds of dollars for goofy upgrades.

JB
---------------------------
"Time will tell. It always does."
-The Doctor
     
RooneyX
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2004, 11:55 PM
 
I hope Apple buys Lightwave and updates the interface and speed. How much is Adobe worth as a company? Buy them!
     
Adam Betts
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 19, 2004, 01:05 AM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
I hope Apple buys Lightwave and updates the interface and speed. How much is Adobe worth as a company? Buy them!
IIRC, they're worth at 8.4 billions right now. That's above Apple's 4.5 billions.

Apple just got out of debt so it wouldn't be a good idea to go down again.

I think it would be better if they buy selected software from them instead of whole. I doubt it will happen though
     
jwblase
Senior User
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: The workshop of the TARDIS...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 19, 2004, 08:27 AM
 
If anything, just buy the mac versions of Adobe's software... Adobe could then gracefully exit the mac market (which it obviously doesn't consider important anyway), and Apple could possibly inherit a product line that it could push to the next level.

JB
---------------------------
"Time will tell. It always does."
-The Doctor
     
RooneyX
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 19, 2004, 01:48 PM
 
Originally posted by Adam Betts:
IIRC, they're worth at 8.4 billions right now. That's above Apple's 4.5 billions.

Apple just got out of debt so it wouldn't be a good idea to go down again.

I think it would be better if they buy selected software from them instead of whole. I doubt it will happen though
Wow. Adobe is bigger than I thought. They won't sell individual products because of copyrighted code and patents that the Mac versions share with the Windows versions.
     
CatOne
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 19, 2004, 06:15 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
Wow. Adobe is bigger than I thought. They won't sell individual products because of copyrighted code and patents that the Mac versions share with the Windows versions.
His numbers are way off.

Adobe's Market cap (as of today April 19th 2004) is 10 billion. Their annual sales ending last November were about $1.3 billion. Apple's Market cap as of today is 10.7 billion. Annual sales for the last 12 months have been around 7 billion.

So Adobe is not a lot bigger, by any stretch ;-)
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:03 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,