Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Fake news?

Fake news?
Thread Tools
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 18, 2016, 10:48 AM
 
So, is it fake news or social engineering, or propaganda?

The MSM and other outlets that allowed themselves to be corrupted have blown any credibility away.
The MSM news outlets, both print and video have lost 85% or their viewers.
Their product is worthless.
The advertisers should demand the MSM lower its advertising rates.
     
The Final Shortcut
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2012
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 18, 2016, 11:59 AM
 
Please Badkosh, teach me more about the evils of fake news and propaganda
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 18, 2016, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
So, is it fake news or social engineering, or propaganda?
"Fake news" as it's being talked about today isn't biased accounts of actual events, it's literally stories made up from nowhere that people keep sharing because it reinforces what they want to believe.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilver...gJ9Z#.tiz33qEp

This is fake news:

Donald Trump Protester Speaks Out: "I Was Paid $3,500 To Protest Trump's Rally" - ABC News

Notice the URL - "abcnews.com.co" and that they use the (AP) to make it seem like a real article. This gets shared all over Facebook and other social media. Idiots read the title, it agrees with what they want to believe, and they take it as fact.

No, someone wasn't paid $3,500 to protest Donald Trump; it's fake news | PolitiFact

The MSM news outlets, both print and video have lost 85% or their viewers.
citation

Anyway, you're confusing purposely made up fake stories and an unreliable media.
( Last edited by Laminar; Nov 18, 2016 at 12:43 PM. )
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 18, 2016, 12:37 PM
 
MSM media losing viewership doesn't necessarily indicate loss of quality or trust. Much like cable itself, it faces more competition and an increasing amount of people who access news in other ways.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 18, 2016, 12:39 PM
 
it's all in the clickbaity titles, getting ad revenue for people who write intriguing headlines that have nothing to do with truth.

Purveyor of fake news says he targeted Trump supporters, influenced election.
     
BadKosh  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 18, 2016, 01:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
it's all in the clickbaity titles, getting ad revenue for people who write intriguing headlines that have nothing to do with truth.

Purveyor of fake news says he targeted Trump supporters, influenced election.
I think you have a point. Follow the money. Kind of disingenuous. It is a kind of social engineering.

Do you think news and opinions should be labeled as such? I thought "NEWS" was facts stated in chronological order without assumptions or opinions. Opinions could include strawmen etc.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 18, 2016, 01:11 PM
 
It doesn't matter because both sides can't agree on basic facts anymore.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 18, 2016, 02:09 PM
 
We're not talking opinion, or op-ed, editorials, which frankly are labelled in real news sites and deserve a place.

We're not even talking parody/satire (the Onion, Waterford Whispers) which enough people forward around thinking it's real, because they can't READ. These sites usually have a small disclaimer on the footer or about page, to cover themselves legally. Even my geriatric folks know about these now though.

These sites which exist just for ad hits and are complete utter fiction jammed with invasive ads. Emails reveal Hillary has alien lover! Click to read more!
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 18, 2016, 05:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
We're not talking opinion, or op-ed, editorials, which frankly are labelled in real news sites and deserve a place.

We're not even talking parody/satire (the Onion, Waterford Whispers) which enough people forward around thinking it's real, because they can't READ. These sites usually have a small disclaimer on the footer or about page, to cover themselves legally. Even my geriatric folks know about these now though.

These sites which exist just for ad hits and are complete utter fiction jammed with invasive ads. Emails reveal Hillary has alien lover! Click to read more!
His name is P'Lod

     
And.reg
The Mighty
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: With the seagulls and the lobster rolls
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 18, 2016, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Emails reveal Hillary has alien lover! Click to read more!
New thread subtitle
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 21, 2016, 04:15 AM
 
I spent a lot of time on FB trying to correct people posting fake news. Ok, fine, you love your candidate, but without proof, or a reference from a reputable source, "Hillary eats babies" is NOT a real news story.

But before you say "people aren't that dumb", remember the outrage over this:


Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 21, 2016, 07:35 AM
 
Not Spielberg too! I guess that's where the Trump boys got the idea!



What about ManBearPig?

     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 21, 2016, 10:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
I think you have a point. Follow the money. Kind of disingenuous. It is a kind of social engineering.
Yes, and there was a marked uptick in the spread of fake news on Facebook after it disbanded its human news curation team. A study performed by Buzzfeed found that 19 % of left-leaning news stories were fake and 38 % on the right. I don't want to get too deep into a discussion over the percentages and methodology, because in the end even a ~20 % chance of news being totally made up is way too high. And fake news helps nobody make an honest and informed choice of who to vote for.

There are indications that Russia has meddled in the US election — not just by spreading false information but also (selectively) hacking of US politicians and political parties. I think this is a topic that should be discussed in ~6 months or so, so that it isn't seen as part of the discussion of the Clinton-vs.-Trump election. Both of these issues are quite worrying, because nobody is helped by discussions of whether Hillary Clinton is a puppet sent by alien overlords to take over the world or whether Trump is a orang utan-human hybrid.
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Do you think news and opinions should be labeled as such? I thought "NEWS" was facts stated in chronological order without assumptions or opinions. Opinions could include strawmen etc.
News and opinions can never be fully separated: even if you recount the facts completely accurately, just the choice in what stories to cover (and what stories not to cover), and how much space and emphasis you give, is a choice which is informed by your opinions. The only way to mitigate bias is to read about the same story on different outlets, preferably ones which are known to have a difference in perspective.

You can also view the DNC hack in the same light: let's assume all of the emails are legit and haven't been altered in any way. They confirmed what everyone knew if he or she just followed the news, the party apparatus used its influence to push Clinton and hamper Sanders. However, the GOP was not hacked, and looking at how the nomination has played out, I am quite sure you'd find similar mails of the GOP apparatschick trying to prevent Trump from getting the GOP nomination. As I wrote above, it is very worrying that external parties with vested interests in the outcome of the election may have tipped the election in one way. (And perhaps Russia prefers the Democratic candidate next time.) Outcomes of election shouldn't be determined by the preferences of foreign governments or outright fake news, but by the people who cast their votes. Again, I think we should discuss this when we don't reflexively see this as part of the Clinton-vs.-Trump election, and whether Clinton might have won without it. There are bigger things at stake.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 22, 2016, 07:37 AM
 
As much as I'd prefer foreign countries stayed out of our elections, that's not the kind of thing you can get them to stop, or expect us not to do the same if given the opportunity.

On top of it, email is inherently about as secure as a postcard. ProTip to people trying to rule the world: encrypt yo shit.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 22, 2016, 05:31 PM
 


Is Fox News fake now?
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 22, 2016, 08:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As much as I'd prefer foreign countries stayed out of our elections, that's not the kind of thing you can get them to stop, or expect us not to do the same if given the opportunity.
No, but what you can change is that you are aware of this influence and how that changes your perception. Of course, that won't be easy because to some extent it goes against our nature as humans, but it's definitely a discussion we need to start having — even if it is not clear where it is going to take us.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
On top of it, email is inherently about as secure as a postcard. ProTip to people trying to rule the world: encrypt yo shit.
That's a separate, but equally huge discussion: We need a cryptographically secure replacement for emails. This way we can not only protect the privacy of everyone, but also verify the authenticity of emails automatically. It's just a matter of time until some big email hack where the hackers sprinkle in a few select emails into thousands of legitimate ones. I don't claim it happened this election cycle, but it is clear that this might happen. As long as the perceived benefit of the NSA being able to vacuum up all information doesn't outweigh the benefit of privacy, I don't think this is going to happen. Nevertheless, I hope these leaks have tipped the scale ever so slightly in the other direction.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 23, 2016, 10:19 PM
 
Honestly, I'd say it has more to do with the general inverse correlation of how good the crypto is versus ease of use.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 23, 2016, 10:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Honestly, I'd say it has more to do with the general inverse correlation of how good the crypto is versus ease of use.
Crypto doesn't have to be hard to use: every time you send a message on iMessage or WhatsApp, you use hard end-to-end encryption. Your iPhone uses strong encryption by default, so does your Mac by default. (For complete security, you should of course store the master encryption key yourself and not keep a copy in iCloud.) The encryption algorithms used are safe (i. e. the best known attack is brute force). It isn't the technology, it is the lack of incentives to create an open standard. You need a government enforced push for all big players to get on board to ensure compatibility (btw, that doesn't necessarily mean that government itself determines the algorithm, but you could have a situation akin to the GSM consortium where the EU told the big wireless equipment manufacturers to come up with one, exactly one standard).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2016, 12:19 AM
 
My apologies. I shouldn't have presented my claim like it was an alternative.

I think the above arguments contribute to the correlation.

The fundamental building blocks of iMessages' ease of use are being closed, corporate, and lacking interoperability.

Get rid of those things and watch it inevitably become either harder to use or less robust. Likely both.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2016, 01:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The fundamental building blocks of iMessages' ease of use are being closed, corporate, and lacking interoperability.

Get rid of those things and watch it inevitably become either harder to use or less robust. Likely both.
There are also secure alternatives that are open source (e. g. Signal). Of course, it gets more complicated if several players are part of the discussion, and you have not just competing ideas as to how to best do something, but also companies such as Google who would be very unhappy if they couldn't read your GMails anymore — that'd be counter to their business model.

But at the end of the day, I don't think technology is to blame, we're definitely able to do it if we put our mind to it.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2016, 01:16 AM
 
That's what I'm saying. Neither open vs. closed, corporate influence, or lack of interoperability are technological problems.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2016, 02:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That's what I'm saying. Neither open vs. closed, corporate influence, or lack of interoperability are technological problems.
That's why I think this has to be a technology solution that has to be pushed by governments, for otherwise the incentives don't align. Unfortunately, the incentives of government don't align either, because the powerful governments around the world believe the best way forward is to vacuum up as much information as possible. I hope we don't have to wait for a terror attack that was perpetrated using weaknesses in “the Cyber” until we change our mind. If determined American and Israeli hackers can destroy uranium ultracentrifuges in the Iranian mountains, then other determined groups can wreak all sorts of havoc in other situations.

Such a solution would also mitigate, say, the Clinton email situation: part of the story was that at that time, government IT was not up to speed with the rest of the world, and if you make it harder and harder for government employees to do their job without breaking rules, then we should also work on creating secure alternatives.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
BadKosh  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2016, 09:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post


Is Fox News fake now?
No Besson. But you continue to be.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2016, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
That's why I think this has to be a technology solution that has to be pushed by governments, for otherwise the incentives don't align. Unfortunately, the incentives of government don't align either, because the powerful governments around the world believe the best way forward is to vacuum up as much information as possible. I hope we don't have to wait for a terror attack that was perpetrated using weaknesses in “the Cyber” until we change our mind. If determined American and Israeli hackers can destroy uranium ultracentrifuges in the Iranian mountains, then other determined groups can wreak all sorts of havoc in other situations.

Such a solution would also mitigate, say, the Clinton email situation: part of the story was that at that time, government IT was not up to speed with the rest of the world, and if you make it harder and harder for government employees to do their job without breaking rules, then we should also work on creating secure alternatives.
I still maintain once the government sticks its nose in, then you know the system will be garbage.

In terms of a terrorist attacks, I don't see how an unencrypted email precipitates one, so I don't see an attack inclining us to fix the email encryption problem.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2016, 02:54 PM
 
Encryption requires securing the keys used for encryption, it does not necessarily provide security in and of itself.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2016, 06:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I still maintain once the government sticks its nose in, then you know the system will be garbage.
Why would you say such a thing? Most of the important innovations that fundamentally changed our lives were government-sponsored: the internet, jet engines, computers, rockets, I could make a list a kilometer long. Another one that wasn't developed by government, but where companies were forced to develop just one standard was GSM which killed CDMA internationally. In Europe you could use any handset from any maker in any country. In the US, different carriers had incompatible networks, which resulted in less competition. The government isn't a panacea that solves all problems, but there are situations when government is indeed the best solution. And one of these situations is when business interests do not align (on the short term) with the common good.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
In terms of a terrorist attacks, I don't see how an unencrypted email precipitates one, so I don't see an attack inclining us to fix the email encryption problem.
???
I'm talking about things like the NSA spy programs here that vacuum up all information, and which is purported to be the best defense against terror attacks. The claim is that you can identify the terrorists early, infer their plans from their communications and apprehend them. That's the claim at least. Effective encryption of devices and communication prevents them from obtaining information on a mass scale.

Insecure computer systems is what allowed Stuxnet to propagate to the Iranian uranium enrichment facility, and do its job. Emails are still one of the main ways to gain control over (Windows) machines, so fixing the email problem would be one of many other measures to secure our IT infrastructure.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2016, 08:04 PM
 
I saw this on Twitter, an interview with a guy who dispersed fake news. He claims to have had up to 25 contributors, and initially did it to show how absurd and removed from reality the alt right is, and not because of all the ad revenue that this generated.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 3, 2016, 07:48 AM
 
People have gotten wise to the fake outlets; Vox, Salon, Breitbart, MoJo, BuzzKill, CNN, and Slate. They're ideological platforms and echo chambers, not news.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
OldManMac
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I don't know anymore!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2016, 11:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
People have gotten wise to the fake outlets; Vox, Salon, Breitbart, MoJo, BuzzKill, CNN, and Slate. They're ideological platforms and echo chambers, not news.
Those are opinion sites, and only a Trump supporter wouldn't know that. Bretibart and infowars are okay, though, right? What's being talked about here are sites like bipartisanreport, u s uncut, and a hundred others, where they twist words around to represent them as facts, much like Fox News does. There was one on my FB feed today, which stated that the Secret Service was going to take away Minority President-elect Drumpf's twitter account. Upon reading the article, it turns out no such thing was stated. It was about someone asking KellyAnne Conway if Drumpf's activity on Twitter was a problem, and if it should be curtailed. Her reply was that the secret service had looked at it, but it was ultimately up to Drumpf. IOW, the article didn't match the headline, but a number of people went ballistic over the issue, because their critical thinking skills don't allow them to connect dots, to reach logical conclusions.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2016, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
What's being talked about here are sites like bipartisanreport, u s uncut, and a hundred others, where they twist words around to represent them as facts, much like Fox News does.
I thought "fake news" was completely made up new on totally fake sites. Check my first post in this thread.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2016, 12:35 PM
 
There is definitely a disctinction between completely false news sites and biased sites. What makes it sometimes difficult to distinguish is that with the trend towards click-baity titles, even legit news sites can seem slimy.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2016, 12:36 PM
 
Yeah, fake news quickly got conflated with misleading news. See what just went down in DC to see something about fake news.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2016, 01:17 PM
 
And fake news can cause some "morans" to get violent:

Gunman went to pizzeria to ‘self-investigate’ an election-related conspiracy theory - The Boston Globe

lucky no one was hurt.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2016, 03:51 PM
 
Pizzagate is fake news? I thought it was Reddit and 4chan.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2016, 04:42 PM
 
when reddit and 4chan get retweeted and quoted by government officials, presidential campaigns, and other "intermediary" news sources, unsuspecting folks may not realize the origins are suspicious.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 6, 2016, 04:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Those are opinion sites, and only a Trump supporter wouldn't know that. Bretibart and infowars are okay, though, right?
CNN is an "opinion" site? Really? Of course, you were too caught up in whatever it is you're smoking to see that I mentioned Breitbart, and Infowars doesn't even try to pass itself off as news, unlike the others, it's just crap to stir up conspiracy porn lovers. Maybe it's time to pull all the press credentials from the "opinion" outlets (anyone who is known to shovel bias as fact)? Suits me.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 6, 2016, 04:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Pizzagate is fake news? I thought it was Reddit and 4chan.
Like anything else, there's at least a spark of truth buried in it to give it momentum.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 6, 2016, 09:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Of course, you were too caught up in whatever it is you're smoking to see that I mentioned Breitbart, and Infowars doesn't even try to pass itself off as news.




For sites that don't pass themselves off as news, they seem to like using the word news. (Check the search fields top right) Especially Infowars.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
BadKosh  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 6, 2016, 10:11 AM
 
CNN claims it is news too. But the MSM declared they would do and say ANYTHING to stop Trump. Propaganda, lies, and spin. It sure isn't 'news'.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 6, 2016, 09:29 PM
 
Doesn't one of the N's stand for News?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
BadKosh  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2016, 07:51 AM
 
But the organization doesn't.
     
tadd
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2016, 12:32 PM
 
35 years ago my Chemistry professor convinced me that anybody who writes about or expounds upon two completely unrelated facts-of-life/technologies/sciences/events in quick succession (like a news show) is probably somebody whose statements should be taken with great suspicion. Very few humans are really that good that they can tell truth from fantasy across a broad range of topics. All a geek like me has to do is sit down with a nurse or teacher and watch a movie together. It becomes very clear that my expertise has pretty narrow limits, and so does my partner, and that we don't overlap in most of our general knowledge, expertise, certainties, suspicions, but at the same time each of us can tear into some elements of apparent lack of attention to detail and reality of almost any TV show. It's really amusing when we find completely different things which are messed up in some fictional show. Take NCIS or Numbers, or Speechless or, Modern Family or Big Bang Theory, or The Expanse, or anything. What is really scary is when you have a larger group consisting of the ham-radio-op/software-engineer/father, fireman/carpenter, teacher/mom/gardener, race-car-mechanic/pilot/fisherman, actually trying to find flaw. I've come to the conclusion (several times and then forgotten it) that nothing presented in visual media is well done, but it sure is fun!

To me and several other students, non-expert in almost everything in the Universe, my Chemistry professor demonstrated the way to analyze news was to obtain multiple sources whose bias and perspective are at odds. His first example was NBC News and Radio Moscow. Toss in Voice Of America and Canadian Broadcast Company news for even more fun. Professor Egon brought up this topic during the Iran hostage crisis when NBC News (if I recall correctly) had the story COMPLETELY wrong (as we later saw). Of course Radio Moscow was really early with all sorts of bad stuff, hopelessly exaggerated, but they had things which seemed to stick as facts, out to the air-waves, long before the US broadcasters talked about it. This was an eye opening experience.

The cool thing now-days is that we can easily obtain contrasting positions, Washington Times vs NY Times etc, CNET vs AppleInsider, SlashDot vs .. There are some web pages which aggregate contrasting stories but don't necessarily do reporter-on-the-street themselves. NewsBusters is quite a good place to start for examples of misdirection on the part of CNN, NBC and etc. drudgereport.com is a good place to go for quick access to headlines, and also a very nice list of sources on all sides of almost any discussion. Any of these sources have serious limitations, like all humans and human driven enterprises.

One thing we have as a limitation when we are close to an issue, is recognizing what the middle is. You can't find the opposite sides of any conversation if you don't know where the middle is. Sometimes you have to go to the extremes to find the middle. And don't assume that somebody who works for company A and somebody who works for company M are at odds about their products. They aren't always. I look for off-the-wall comments and try to figure out what they are talking about, then look for other input. You can keep score too. NY Times published the transcript of a meeting they had with Trump. Then they published news stories ABOUT that meeting. Wouldn't it be funny of the two didn't agree? Surprise! IDC is fun to watch also. If you catch a newspaper or news program lying, try to follow up and see what they and anybody else do about it. Eventually you can put them in your "very suspicious" bucket. It's almost impossible to put a news station/page/paper into the highly reliable bucket. If you do, try to reconsider.

We are what we are. The human race is fun to watch if you have at an appropriate distance or have a sense of humor, and you aren't too invested in whatever is being promoted, trashed, stolen, funded, fined, released, cancelled, imprisoned, exported, imported, beaten into the ground, pillaged, bought, sold, demonstrated, expounded upon, etc...

Tadd
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2016, 12:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post




For sites that don't pass themselves off as news, they seem to like using the word news. (Check the search fields top right) Especially Infowars.
First, I included Breitbart in the heavily-biased "news" parade in my original post, and Infowars is, by their own admission, "conspiracy porn". I saw a News tab on the Cartoon Network site, does that mean they're trying to pass as a MSM outlet too?
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2016, 06:33 AM
 
Every website has one news tab, typically concerned with itself or its primary subject matter. 52 mentions of the word 'news' on the homepage should tell you something about how they perceive their own content.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2016, 06:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by tadd View Post
NY Times published the transcript of a meeting they had with Trump. Then they published news stories ABOUT that meeting. Wouldn't it be funny of the two didn't agree?
A lot of the right wing media circuit is based on this sort of thing, thats why individual bloggers have become such a huge part of it. The lone guy reporting "news" from his basement isn't worth suing or shutting down (just adds credibility in the eyes of his readers) so he is free to make up anything he wants without repercussions. So freedomtruthwarrioramericaisgreat.org posts an article about how Hillary and her army of pedophile pilots actually launched the attack on Pearl Harbour with fake Japanese aircraft, then the other bloggers report that this story "has been reported", effectively just copying and pasting it to their own sites. Right the way up to Infowars, Breitbart and Fox News talking about it on radio and TV.

And thats why people like Chongo and Badkosh wake up screaming "Benghazi!" four or five times a night.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
BadKosh  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2016, 07:44 AM
 
So do the relatives of the dead. Sorry if a few deaths from incompetence doesn't bother you but liberals don't care about life anyway. They try and kill as many as possible through abortion and euthanasia, and give BS reasons for doing it.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2016, 10:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Sorry if a few deaths from incompetence doesn't bother you but conservatives don't care about life anyway. They try and kill as many as possible through the death sentence, war, and invincible policemen, and give BS reasons for doing it.
...
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2016, 10:49 AM
 
In a way I envy BadKosh's view of the world, it's incredibly simple and concrete.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2016, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Every website has one news tab, typically concerned with itself or its primary subject matter. 52 mentions of the word 'news' on the homepage should tell you something about how they perceive their own content.
I tell ya what, send Alex an email and ask him if he's part of the MSM, cupcake.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2016, 12:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
...
At least you're admitting the Left is as bloody and violent as the Right, since you have no actual rebuttal, that's a start.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:37 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,