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A new SE!
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Thorzdad
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Apr 15, 2020, 11:51 AM
 
Apple has announced a new iPhone SE. I just might ditch my flip phone now.
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andi*pandi
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Apr 15, 2020, 12:19 PM
 
Well well well... $399 isn't bad. I quite like my iphone 8. Many people would want a smaller form factor though.
     
turtle777
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Apr 15, 2020, 12:49 PM
 
Nice. TouchID FTW with masks.

-t
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Apr 15, 2020, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Well well well... $399 isn't bad. I quite like my iphone 8. Many people would want a smaller form factor though.
I'd definitely prefer a smaller form, like, say, my wife's 6s. But this is probably Apple's last gasp at building anything even remotely not-gargantuan.
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Apr 15, 2020, 06:19 PM
 
It is an iPhone 8 with a $50 lower price, A13 instead of A11, portrait mode (but the fake one that the XR has) and without 3D Touch. This is nice, but the difference to the iPhone 8 is not very large. Apple calls the A13 40% faster than the A11 (although more on GPU tasks), and the network bit is better (Wifi 6 and a new LTE version) but this is not the massive difference that we got with the SE, which gained OIS and a CPU that was twice as fast as the 5s.

The camera is a little bit of an unknown. It is not the one from the 11, because it misses Night mode. It is either the same one as the 8 had before, or it is the XR camera.
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Apr 15, 2020, 06:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
I'd definitely prefer a smaller form, like, say, my wife's 6s. But this is probably Apple's last gasp at building anything even remotely not-gargantuan.
I don’t think so, I think that there will be more phones smaller than the 11. The 11 Pro is only 3.5 mm wider than the 8 (the height is about 5 mm greater, but that matters less for gripability)- it isn’t an option because it is so hilariously expensive, but it isn’t gargantuan. Apple hasn’t quite forgotten about us yet.
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turtle777
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Apr 15, 2020, 07:28 PM
 
I had bought an iPhone 11 Pro in fall, after holding out forever with my iPhone 7s.
I can’t stand the size of the iPhone 11, so the Pro was my only choice.

If had to buy a new iPhone today, I would pick the 8 SE.

-t
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 15, 2020, 09:38 PM
 
It's a pity that for Apple the SE seems to be conceptualized as “the cheap phone” rather than a small phone. We have small, light laptops, small iPads, why not small phones? My wife's previous phone was the first-gen SE, and she could have bought the 6S (the current iPhone at that time). Her reaction to the 6S was meh, but she she saw the first-gen SE, she told me “I want this!” She ordered one the week it came out. She replaced it this January with an 11, though.

I don't find the new SE appealing: I have a 7, and while I am sure the new A13 will smoke my phone's A10 (?), there are few times when I feel that I am hampered by CPU speed. So I'd rather wait for the next or the next-next iPhone. Plus, ever since I got FaceID on my new iPad Pro, I can't see myself going back to TouchID.

I'm probably in turtle's camp when it comes to size: I'd get the Pro if they don't offer a small non-Pro by then. But the 11 (non-Pro) is a pretty sweet device, save for its gargantuan size.
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Laminar
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Apr 16, 2020, 11:02 AM
 
My X is a great size to use, but a terrible size to carry. My mom still has an original SE and it feels like a child's toy in comparison, much more pocketable. I have to remember to put my socks on in the morning before putting my phone in my pocket, for fear of bending the phone in half when I crouch down.
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 16, 2020, 11:46 AM
 
I think my daughter would be happy with the 4s she is texting with currently if it only had real phone service. That phone fit perfectly in the hand, and pocket.
     
reader50
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Apr 16, 2020, 12:17 PM
 
andi, that's an interesting thought. If Apple does not make a smartphone sized for children, then I guess kids have to learn on Android.
     
subego
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Apr 16, 2020, 12:29 PM
 
I’m personally glad Apple forced me into the X form factor. I was irritated at first, but now the idea of using a phone that small seems ridiculous.

Also, the phone sits low enough in my pocket I don’t have bendy issues. The pocket issue I have are the rivets on that useless pocket watch pocket. If I don’t angle the phone putting it in or taking it out, the rivets scratch up the screen.
     
Laminar
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Apr 16, 2020, 01:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
andi, that's an interesting thought. If Apple does not make a smartphone sized for children, then I guess kids have to learn on Android.
Kids have their faces smashed into an iPad from birth, there's no risk of kids being unfamiliar with iOS.
     
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Apr 16, 2020, 04:16 PM
 
[...deleted...]
( Last edited by Ham Sandwich; Apr 23, 2020 at 10:41 AM. )
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 16, 2020, 09:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I think my daughter would be happy with the 4s she is texting with currently if it only had real phone service. That phone fit perfectly in the hand, and pocket.
We have an old 5 and an iPad 2 at home, and the problem for us isn't the phone service, but apps. We are no longer able to download any apps for it. Unfortunately, I only thought about it after resetting both devices.
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Apple made two mistakes naming it SE but making it look like iPhone 8, especially when the rumors are that the iPhone 12 will look more like what the SE used to look like (which a lot of people liked). This will just cause confusion and really shows some of the shortcomings of depending on marketing.
I think you got this the wrong way around: Apple designed this to be the cheap iPhone, which means they wanted to reap as many benefits from the existing production processes for iPhone 6-style iPhones as they can.

Now I think this is a misguided concept, because IMHO for a sizable number of people, the appeal of this device is different, but this is — I think — Apple's thinking, and this is consistent.
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mindwaves
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Apr 17, 2020, 03:47 AM
 
I'm not going to buy it. Kind of hoping would be in the iPhone 4 body shape. Maybe that is for the iPhone 12. Will sell like hotcakes considering Touch ID and cheap price.
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Doc HM
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Apr 18, 2020, 08:32 AM
 
I have to say my XR is hands down the best iPhone experience I've ever had (adjusted for expectation etc). I love the size, it's plenty fast, camera is great enough (which is one better than good enough but just below great), battery is superb, wireless charging is cool and the red is lovely.
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ghporter
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Apr 18, 2020, 12:24 PM
 
So far, the iPhone 8 I currently have is the largest iPhone I’ve ever had, and it just about as big as I can manage for carrying and use. That the SE is exactly the same size as the 8 is both interesting and a little troubling.

Is it “just” an upgraded 8, or is it a smaller, not so powerful 11 without face recognition? In any case, I’m glad it is comparable to the original iPhone 8 in things like size and Touch ID - I was never thrilled with the notion of my phone being able to (in theory) be opened against my wishes by someone holding it up in front of me...despite how ludicrous and goofy that sounds.

Since I’ve just about paid off my 8, I’m wondering if it will start giving me trouble... With an “upgraded” iPhone 8 out there, I feel comfortable that I can replace my current phone if needed without a big learning curve.

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Brien
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Apr 18, 2020, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Well well well... $399 isn't bad. I quite like my iphone 8. Many people would want a smaller form factor though.
All the flagships are going 7”, I think small phones are DOA.
     
subego
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Apr 18, 2020, 10:24 PM
 
Looks that way.

Gruber made the point that Apple’s “cheap” phones are squeezing the final bit of juice out of all the last generation’s tools and dies. In this case, the 6 form factor.
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 18, 2020, 11:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
I have to say my XR is hands down the best iPhone experience I've ever had (adjusted for expectation etc). I love the size, it's plenty fast, camera is great enough (which is one better than good enough but just below great), battery is superb, wireless charging is cool and the red is lovely.
My wife loves her 11 (non-Pro), and the size didn’t bother her too much (she came from a first-gen SE). But I still think there’d be a sizable niche of the market clamoring for a fast, small phone — just like some people love a small, lightweight laptop. If Apple took a 4.7” screen and reduced the bezels the way it did going to the X-class form factor, I think this would be a very appealing proposition. Call it iPhone Air.
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turtle777
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Apr 19, 2020, 01:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
All the flagships are going 7”, I think small phones are DOA.
F#$% that.

Maybe I should trade my toilet paper stock into a stock of current small iPhones.

-t
     
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Apr 19, 2020, 01:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I don't find the new SE appealing: I have a 7, and while I am sure the new A13 will smoke my phone's A10 (?), there are few times when I feel that I am hampered by CPU speed.
Yes, it will smoke your iPhone 7, but more importantly, the battery life should be much better. The A10 is a bit of an oddity among Apple’s chips, and the A11-13 (they use a similar design) are significantly more efficient at low power modes.

I'm probably in turtle's camp when it comes to size: I'd get the Pro if they don't offer a small non-Pro by then. But the 11 (non-Pro) is a pretty sweet device, save for its gargantuan size.
I think that this should be seen as the non-gargantuan complement to the 11. It is the same size as the 11 Pro, but less of the area is screen, and it doesn’t have the multiple cameras.

Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
andi, that's an interesting thought. If Apple does not make a smartphone sized for children, then I guess kids have to learn on Android.
The new SE is by far the smallest phone on the market with anything resembling quality. All Android phones are large now, unless you want to count real bargain-basement phones.

Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Apple made two mistakes naming it SE but making it look like iPhone 8, especially when the rumors are that the iPhone 12 will look more like what the SE used to look like (which a lot of people liked). This will just cause confusion and really shows some of the shortcomings of depending on marketing.

Apple really should have named it the iPhone 8s or iPhone 9.
I don’t like that it refuses the old name, but iPhone 8s or 9 would have implied that it is an old device. It isn’t - it is faster than a frigging iPhone XS Max (although only in corner cases). It is indeed a special edition phone. I just wish they could have come up with some other name than one that was already used.
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turtle777
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Apr 19, 2020, 01:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
I think that this should be seen as the non-gargantuan complement to the 11. It is the same size as the 11 Pro, but less of the area is screen, and it doesn’t have the multiple cameras.
AND - with significant lower weight.

iPhone SE: 5.2 oz
iPhone 11 Pro: 6.6 oz

-t
     
Laminar
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Apr 19, 2020, 03:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
My wife loves her 11 (non-Pro), and the size didn’t bother her too much (she came from a first-gen SE).
Does she pocket or purse it?
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 19, 2020, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Does she pocket or purse it?
Women’s jeans pockets are a hilarious joke, even the first-gen SE didn’t fit many of them. So she puts it in her handbag or in her jacket pocket.
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OreoCookie
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Apr 19, 2020, 09:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Yes, it will smoke your iPhone 7, but more importantly, the battery life should be much better. The A10 is a bit of an oddity among Apple’s chips, and the A11-13 (they use a similar design) are significantly more efficient at low power modes.
You are right when you talk about benchmarks. But in practice, my 7 doesn’t feel slow yet. You are right about the lackluster battery life, but I can make do with what I have. Even for longer bike trips I have a small, round Anker battery. (Fortunately, my 7 was replaced 1 year, 11 months and 2 weeks in, just when Apple Care was about to expire. Water ingress. So I got a refurb as a replacement for cheap.) However, this is the thing I am most jealous about when I see my wife’s 11. That and the yellow color. I half-jokingly told her that she made my life really hard by going for a yellow one — my favorite color.
Originally Posted by P View Post
I think that this should be seen as the non-gargantuan complement to the 11. It is the same size as the 11 Pro, but less of the area is screen, and it doesn’t have the multiple cameras.
I don’t know. I think the 11 should come in two sizes like the Pro does. So IMHO this small, not cheap phone should play the same role that the original MacBook Air did: it was in between the pro and the non-pro laptops. It was a premium machine, and for people who preferred the smaller form factor, it was likely a machine used by pros. For all practical purposes, I wouldn’t mind if the price point were in between the pro and the non-pro models. I can live with all the compromises you mention, even the reduced battery life.
Originally Posted by P View Post
The new SE is by far the smallest phone on the market with anything resembling quality. All Android phones are large now, unless you want to count real bargain-basement phones.
I don’t know why no manufacturer — including Apple — seems to take that market segment seriously. Even if it appeals only to, say, 10 % of iPhone buyers, that is a huge number in the end. And Apple could try new manufacturing techniques on a small scale if it wanted to.
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subego
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Apr 19, 2020, 11:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Women’s jeans pockets are a hilarious joke, even the first-gen SE didn’t fit many of them. So she puts it in her handbag or in her jacket pocket.
The butt pocket can just (barely) work.
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 20, 2020, 12:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The butt pocket can just (barely) work.
I put my 4S regularly into my back pocket and my phone was pristine when I sold it. But even with the 5 I got to replace it I was never comfortable putting it there.

You do see some Japanese women leaving their phones in their back pockets, though. And they stick out more and more. It also becomes a problem for my sports clothing. My cycling jersey won't fit my iPhone 7 in its silicone case in the zipper pocket. So either I remove the case (which I won't) or I put the phone into an open pocket. Cycling jerseys have a flap that is supposed to catch stuff, and so far I haven't had a problem yet, but the companies are always playing catchup. (Keep in mind that high-quality sports clothing is expensive. My cycling jersey costs ~$250. Admittedly, this is top-of-the-line stuff, but even mid-range clothing is expensive.
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subego
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Apr 20, 2020, 01:30 AM
 
Luckily, all I need is front-right pocket, and both my standard issue jeans and cargo shorts accommodate it fine.

The only problem I’ve already mentioned, which is the watch pocket rivets gouging the screen, but I’ve trained myself to avoid hitting them.


Do people here use cases? I’d probably not like the size as much if I had a case adding bulk.
     
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Apr 20, 2020, 06:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
I don’t know why no manufacturer — including Apple — seems to take that market segment seriously. Even if it appeals only to, say, 10 % of iPhone buyers, that is a huge number in the end. And Apple could try new manufacturing techniques on a small scale if it wanted to.
Ars had an article about this, but basically: big sells, and thin sells. Small and thin would work, but you can’t fit any reasonable battery in it.

I also think that Apple’s long development times show up here. They clearly planned that the 4.7” iPhone 6 would be the only phone, and then realized that they needed a big one - ergo, iPhone 6+, which by all accounts used a display from the shelf (it was a regular 1080p display that scaled slightly). The next design after that was a phone the same size as the iPhone 6, but with all display, and then a big one. The idea that people wanted something smaller than the regular doesn’t appear to have occurred to Apple until the original SE exceeded all sales expectations, and then it was too late to add something to the iPhone X lineup.

When the next redesign happens - this year, perhaps? - there could well be a smaller phone in the mix. My favorite idea: outer dimensions of the iPhone 5, with the entire front display. This happens to make the display the same size as the iPhone 6 (through 8, and the new SE) which means that devs don’t have to support another size.
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Apr 20, 2020, 06:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Do people here use cases? I’d probably not like the size as much if I had a case adding bulk.
I use Apple’s leather cases. They add minimal bulk, look nice, and at least protect the phone from minor drops.
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Doc HM
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Apr 20, 2020, 07:27 AM
 
Cases for the XR, 11 etc seem to have a blind spot. There are plenty of bumper cases etc but these despite Apple giving attention to the colours etc on the back nearly all cases that have a flip open cover have solid backs. There's a real shortage of options for flip open cases with transparent backs that show off the phone colour. Griffin do one but that's about it.
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Laminar
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Apr 20, 2020, 08:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Luckily, all I need is front-right pocket, and both my standard issue jeans and cargo shorts accommodate it fine.

The only problem I’ve already mentioned, which is the watch pocket rivets gouging the screen, but I’ve trained myself to avoid hitting them.


Do people here use cases? I’d probably not like the size as much if I had a case adding bulk.
Historically I've used a super slim case, to protect from scratches and basic falls, but I managed to crack the screen on my 6 twice so I've moved to a slightly bigger bumper case since then.
     
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Apr 20, 2020, 02:51 PM
 
Women’s pants typically have “pockets” as a stylistic adornment, not for actual storage in any practical sense. My wife has @#%$ed about this strongly noted this for quite some time. It turns out that, with a little effort, women can find jeans for actual human females, that feature actual pockets. My wife did the research and found the latter, so now she can pocket her iPhone and not have it fall out.

I often see women out and about with a purse hung from the elbow on one side, and keys and a cell phone held in the hand on the other... Not only is this terribly impractical, it looks pretty goofy, especially when said lady tries to pay for her latte. Goofy, verging on hilarious.

Anyway, the iPhone 8/SE size works in my pant pockets pretty well. In my scrubs, my phone lives in the patch pocket near the lower left side of my top, though my newest scrubs have real pockets. (Medical scrub pants are often another “not made with practical pockets” item.)

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Apr 20, 2020, 04:20 PM
 
I suspect once you get out of fashionable jeans, into let's say... mom jeans, pockets become better. iphone 8 fits in my jeans pocket as long as I don't sit. A fleece vest completes the mom look as it has extra pockets, for phone, keys, and no need to carry a clunky purse.

My daughter has some leggings with a side pocket on the leg, suitable for a small phone, credit/gym card, etc.
     
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Apr 20, 2020, 08:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I suspect once you get out of fashionable jeans, into let's say... mom jeans
Who doesn't want to get into mom jeans ?

-t
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 21, 2020, 12:07 PM
 




Ok, point for you!
     
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Apr 21, 2020, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I suspect once you get out of fashionable jeans, into let's say... mom jeans, pockets become better.
I don't think fashionable and practical are that much at odds with one another. Plus, moms also want to be fashionable … 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
iphone 8 fits in my jeans pocket as long as I don't sit. A fleece vest completes the mom look as it has extra pockets, for phone, keys, and no need to carry a clunky purse.
Additional options are always great, but I think a lot of women wished for proper pockets in their pants.

According to an episode of 99 % Invisible, even on women's uniforms the pockets tend to be way too small. So small, in fact, that apparently many women opt for pants from the men's line.
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subego
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Apr 21, 2020, 10:59 PM
 
With pants that are form fitting, I understand the issue is the pocket material bunches up and makes the wearer look lumpy.
     
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Apr 21, 2020, 11:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
With pants that are form fitting, I understand the issue is the pocket material bunches up and makes the wearer look lumpy.
Sure, I have that problem too in many pants (I have large quads). But it is my choice whether I want to stuff my pockets or not. If I don't, then they are quite form fitting.
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subego
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Apr 21, 2020, 11:45 PM
 
I mean the pocket material itself. Even when empty.

As an aside, BDUs (army pants) look flattering on most female body shapes, and have lots of full size pockets.
     
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Apr 22, 2020, 01:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I mean the pocket material itself. Even when empty.
You mean that the fabric that makes up the pocket itself is thinner and less durable? I thought you were referring to the fact that pockets on women's jeans are often fake pockets, because the contents of your pocket would distort the shape of the legs.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As an aside, BDUs (army pants) look flattering on most female body shapes, and have lots of full size pockets.
There is so much the fashion industry doesn't understand about women's as well as men's tastes, me thinks. It's kinda sad that when I talk to my female friends, their idealized body type is on average much thinner than men's ideal body types.
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Apr 22, 2020, 02:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
You mean that the fabric that makes up the pocket itself is thinner and less durable? I thought you were referring to the fact that pockets on women's jeans are often fake pockets, because the contents of your pocket would distort the shape of the legs.
What I’m saying is it’s more than just the content of the pocket, it’s the fabric of the pocket itself. Akin to VPL.
     
ghporter
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Apr 22, 2020, 01:03 PM
 
The way BDUs (and their successors) are cut are totally functional, with notable additions like extra fabric over knees, and pockets that are designed to be used. Those outside pockets are made with folds that allow the pockets to expand to accommodate whatever the wearer puts in them.

And they are not really made with different cuts for female forms. They are sized for hip/waist sizes that female wearers need to interpolate for their actual sizes. The BDU featured adjusters that let one cinch up the waist, while the ACU (Army) and ABU (Air Force) have elastic waists for the same thing.

To me, this is the point. In my experience (almost 20 years in BDUs), they tend to emphasize women’s waists - particularly emphasizing the difference between hips and waist. Which is nice, particularly in a population that’s supposed to be and stay fit and active.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
mindwaves
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Apr 22, 2020, 09:53 PM
 
Still using my iPhone 11 Pro, but I disabled Face ID and put the passcode to enable after 5 mins (1 min is not enough, 2 mins would have been perfect but no such option(. Much easier for when I'm wearing a mask. Sure it is less secure, but I'm fine.
{{{ mindwaves }}}
     
Mac User #001
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Apr 25, 2020, 09:22 PM
 
After dealing with FaceID and face masks... I am a bit intrigued. Not enough to switch from my 11 Pro, though.
I have returned... 2020 MacBook Air - 1.1 GHz Quad-Core i5 - 16 GB RAM
     
   
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