[Beewee]

Starwars needs to die more. After the pre-quel crap they totally butchered the things that made the series great. "The Force" once seen as something that is spread though out the universe, something intangible like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is turned into a blood born organism. crap

Trek is good, loved DS9, Voyager sucked (but I love to debate why it sucked)

Enterprise is interesting but the series has gone a little "soap opera" in design. The big question: "Who will Tiple/tepal/teypal...whatever, get with in the end. Quantum Leap Guy? OR That Guy With The Fake Southern Accent Who's Name Rhymes With A Curse Word?

It's no longer about the mission or meeting new aliens, it's about who is ****ing who or will **** who or who the audience wants to **** who. When did the series get so saturated with sex?

StarGate is good too, McGyver now has to out smart aliens using only a tube of toothpaste, a mirror, and his automatic assault rif...HUH?!

[paully dub]

The problem with Star Wars is no matter how well they manage to end episode three, the actual end of the whole series will still be the stupid scene with the ewoks. That just sucks.

And that f*cking song - what's up with that?

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Beewee:
Enterprise is interesting but the series has gone a little "soap opera" in design. The big question: "Who will Tiple/tepal/teypal...whatever, get with in the end. Quantum Leap Guy? OR That Guy With The Fake Southern Accent Who's Name Rhymes With A Curse Word?

It's no longer about the mission or meeting new aliens, it's about who is ****ing who or will **** who or who the audience wants to **** who. When did the series get so saturated with sex?

Never mind that the ship is on a desperate mission to save Earth and (judging from the recent cliff-hanger) the fate of the entire galaxy. No, that's not what this season is about, even though almost every episode this season save one or two has had something to do with the mission. No, because there was one stupid episode that had sex in it, suddenly the whole show is about sex.

Let me guess, you watched exactly one episode of Enterprise this year. If that.

BTW, DS9 had its share of sex, too, as I remember.

[Oneota]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
BTW, DS9 had its share of sex, too, as I remember.

As did TNG. And Voyager. And TOS, for that matter.

[Myrkridia]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Never mind that the ship is on a desperate mission to save Earth and (judging from the recent cliff-hanger) the fate of the entire galaxy. No, that's not what this season is about, even though almost every episode this season save one or two has had something to do with the mission. No, because there was one stupid episode that had sex in it, suddenly the whole show is about sex.

Let me guess, you watched exactly one episode of Enterprise this year. If that.

BTW, DS9 had its share of sex, too, as I remember.

[The following post contains spoilers]

I gotta say I agree with Beewee, and I think his post is more about sexual situations being in the episodes, not just intercourse. Yes, the whole "saving of the universe" is all well and good. But I believe you're leaving out far more episodes than what you think. Let's see.. You've got the episode where Archer rescues that girl/sex slave who is really a spy for the Xindie. The way she "gathers information" about a particular species. You have the one where Tucker get's pregnant, where Hoshie has a one night stand on Risa, or Rigel, (some system with an "R"), Tapal becomes in heat, and starts coming onto all members of the crew, Flox's wife has a thing for Tucker, Tucker has sex with Tapal, any episode where they're in the decon-chamber and have some kind of salve or anti-virus cream.
I may have left a few out, so as you can see Enterprise has a much bigger foundation for sex than you may have realized. The point I'm really trying to make in all this, is that I'll never know the love of a good woman...

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Myrkridia:
[The following post contains spoilers]

I gotta say I agree with Beewee, and I think his post is more about sexual situations being in the episodes, not just intercourse. Yes, the whole "saving of the universe" is all well and good. But I believe you're leaving out far more episodes than what you think. Let's see.. You've got the episode where Archer rescues that girl/sex slave who is really a spy for the Xindie. The way she "gathers information" about a particular species. You have the one where Tucker get's pregnant, where Hoshie has a one night stand on Risa, or Rigel, (some system with an "R"), Tapal becomes in heat, and starts coming onto all members of the crew, Flox's wife has a thing for Tucker, Tucker has sex with Tapal, any episode where they're in the decon-chamber and have some kind of salve or anti-virus cream.
I may have left a few out, so as you can see Enterprise has a much bigger foundation for sex than you may have realized. The point I'm really trying to make in all this, is that I'll never know the love of a good woman...

Are you sure you're not Beewee? You both seem to have the same spelling issues...

Please look at the instances you listed and note how many of them are from season 3 and not from the (admittedly crap) first two seasons. I count exactly two. The rest are all from Seasons 1 and 2. The sex-related stuff is pretty much in the background in the much-improved Season 3.

As for DS9, let's see. There were several episodes where Kira was having sex with Bareil. And meanwhile Winn was sleeping with some high-ranking Bajoran official in order to further her shady agenda. Then there was that entire episode about Odo pining away after Kira, and the one with Bashir, Leeta, Dax, and Worf on Risa. There's the one where Odo has a one-night stand with the woman who's a suspect in the case he's investigating, and then don't forget all the episodes with Worf and Dax having sex and then the jokes afterward about how rough Worf is in bed. There was a whole episode just about Odo finally hooking up with Kira, and there's also a bunch of crappy Ferengi episodes which depict a society where women aren't allowed to wear clothes - I wonder why? Plus the one where Quark undergoes a sex change (and what the hell were the writers thinking - this episode was easily DS9's worst). Bashir sleeping with Ezri took some time from the whole series finale. And let's not even go into the mirror universe, where evil-Kira always wears tight-fitting leather outfits, is surrounded by large men with little on, is clearly a hedonist and even displays bisexual and narcissistic tendencies. And how does mirror-Sisko get permission from her to own a starship? And when our Sisko goes to the mirror universe, he sleeps with mirror-Dax, etc., etc., etc...

DS9 had a lot of sex in it. It certainly wasn't about sex, though, and it had a lot of great stories and plot lines going on, with the main focus clearly being on the Dominion war. I think we could probably come up with a similar list for TNG, although I don't remember it as well since it was a long time ago when it went off the air...

[Oneota]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
I think we could probably come up with a similar list for TNG, although I don't remember it as well since it was a long time ago when it went off the air...

Dude - subscribe to SpikeTV! 6 PM & 7 PM Central every weeknight.

[SupahCoolX]

TOS had its share of sex. Gene Roddenberry's wife was always running around in a short skirt and, IIRC, the kiss between Kirk and Uhura was the first interracial kiss on TV.
On TNG, Riker was a manwhore. He got it everywhere he went. Must've been the beard. Hmm... I should look into growing one of those.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
As for DS9, let's see. <snip>

DS9 was my least favorite of the four, but it had my absolute favorite episode; the one where they go back in time to the original enterprise and accidently bring back Tribbles.... the mortal enemy of the Klingon Empire! I think it was called "Trials and Tribble-ations."

HAH! Great episode

Everything else pretty much sucked in DS9. I did get hooked on Voyager though. Kinda grew on me. TNG is the best still. Havn't seen enough of Enterprise to make any real comments.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Everything else pretty much sucked in DS9.

In your opinion.

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

Wanna see something really pathetic. Watch this...

http://www.bringbackkirk.com/trailer.html

[Myrkridia]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Are you sure you're not Beewee? You both seem to have the same spelling issues...

Please look at the instances you listed and note how many of them are from season 3 and not from the (admittedly crap) first two seasons. I count exactly two. The rest are all from Seasons 1 and 2. The sex-related stuff is pretty much in the background in the much-improved Season 3.

Look, I could really care less which season which episode resides in.
Enterprise, as well as pretty much any show for young adults and above all have a firm foundation in sex, or sexual situations. It's a fact of marketing, and for some reason that I can't begin to understand, you seem to have a very strong personal investment in this particular series. All I'm here to do is discuss, and you seem to take it as an attack.

And as for my identity... If you want to continue this discussion by throwing in statements that have nothing to do with what we're even talking about, then all I can say is, "What about your number of posts, hmmm? Maybe you and olePigeon are the same person because you have similar post counts and your star colors are identical!!"

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
Wanna see something really pathetic. Watch this...

http://www.bringbackkirk.com/trailer.html

I did and I'll never get those minutes back. How sad.

[Beewee]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Never mind that the ship is on a desperate mission to save Earth and (judging from the recent cliff-hanger) the fate of the entire galaxy. No, that's not what this season is about, even though almost every episode this season save one or two has had something to do with the mission. No, because there was one stupid episode that had sex in it, suddenly the whole show is about sex.

Let me guess, you watched exactly one episode of Enterprise this year. If that.

BTW, DS9 had its share of sex, too, as I remember.

Yes, but most of it was to further the story along. Sex with (storybased) purpose is fine. Sex with the only purpose of attracting male viewers is what I'm talking about. DS9 had characters falling for others or the evil ones doing it for political gains (ie: Kai Winn). (Storybased purpose) Also when I said sex before I meant it in the general term of sexual situations or sexual innuendos...not the health class term.


And I don't care about how much season 3 has improved over the others, I am talking about the series as a whole. Did all of the other Treks have as much sex in them over all? Of course not, they had many more seasons under their belt so it was spread out.
Enterprise just ended it's third season (I think). But as it stands Enterprise has had way more sexual scenes, situations, and innuendos in it's 3 season life than any of the other Treks had in their first 3 seasons. (And they seem to have a lesbian kick going, what's the deal with that?)
If the series lasts those first seasons could be over-shadowed by the volume of the show over-all; we'll just have to wait and see.

As for DS9:

Originally posted by CharlesS:
There were several episodes where Kira was having sex with Bareil. For love.
And meanwhile Winn was sleeping with some high-ranking Bajoran official in order to further her shady agenda. Grasping for power, fueling story.
Then there was that entire episode about Odo pining away after Kira, and the one with Bashir, Leeta, Dax, and Worf on Risa. Lets see love, love, love, and...love. There may have been some fun had too but it still served a storybased purpose.

Now Enterprise:
Hoshi and the alien sex slave meeting. For ratings.
Tipal and Alien sex slave in her quarters For ratings, that whole lesbian thing is a really good marketing strategy for the 17-25 age bracket.
Tipal in -for lack of a better word- Horny. For ratings.
Archer and alien sex slave. For ratings.
The one with the vulcan that mind melded with Tipal For ratings.
See a pattern??

I do like the series, it just seems that lately there has been a lot of meaningless sex on TV (much more than usual.)

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Myrkridia:
Look, I could really care less which season which episode resides in.

My whole point was that Enterprise has improved dramatically in its 3rd season. So therefore, what season an episode resides in seems kinda relevant, and bringing up stuff from the first two doesn't.

Originally posted by Beewee:
Yes, but most of it was to further the story along.

Tell me what having Bashir sleep with Ezri in the last episode had to do with the storyline.
Kira and Bareil's sex scenes early on in Season 2? Kira and mirror-Bareil later on? Why?
What did making Kira's evil counterpart so sexy (and with bisexual connotations) in all the mirror universe episodes have to do with the storyline?
What did making Sisko sleep with Dax in the mirror universe do for the storyline?
Tell me what wasting an entire episode with Odo/Kira getting together had to do with the storyline.
Tell me what the jokes about Jadzia breaking bones while having sex with Worf did for anything.
The episode on Risa had a lot of sexual connotations in it. Tell me what that did for the storyline.
Same goes for Odo's one-night stand.
Tell me what on earth having Quark in drag did for the main storyline.

Answer to all of these - ratings. Well, except the last one. I'm not sure what the reason behind that was (crack?).

Don't get me wrong, DS9 was great - but it had a lot of sex in it. I'm probably forgetting quite a few more, also (it's been a while since DS9 was off the air now, too!)

God, I am showing myself to be such a nerd.

ow Enterprise:
Hoshi and the alien sex slave meeting. For ratings.
Tipal and Alien sex slave in her quarters For ratings, that whole lesbian thing is a really good marketing strategy for the 17-25 age bracket.
Tipal in -for lack of a better word- Horny. For ratings.
Archer and alien sex slave. For ratings.
The one with the vulcan that mind melded with Tipal For ratings.
See a pattern??

Yep, I do - the pattern is that 3 out of 5 of these examples are from the same episode. And the other two aren't from Season 3.

And they seem to have a lesbian kick going, what's the deal with that?

One (admittedly bad) episode does not constitute a "kick". DS9 had the evil-Kira character in more than one mirror universe episode...

Really, because there has been a little sex does not mean the show is about sex. What it means is they have had low ratings and have tried to bump them every so often. But DS9 did that quite a bit too. So did TNG - my memory isn't so clear, but I do remember a planet full of people wearing very little and who wanted to kill Wesley - the one where Worf says "Nice planet." I also remember a Risa episode, and quite a few instances where Riker or Troi would sleep with random guest stars.

[Xeo]

A lot of people seem to have similar views to me.

TNG In high school, I watched TNG re-runs every night. I really grew fond of the series. I haven't watched it much recently. I know at this point the first season is just painful, but it progressively becomes a better series. There is probably a lot of character development and plot points I missed since I didn't appreciate things in general back then.

DS9 I started watching DS9 as a senior in high school and over the last year I've seen DS9 starting from episode 1 up through the middle of season 4.My roommate and I are rationing the seasons until the purchase of the next one. I've seen most of 5,6,7 but I'm sure there are some I've missed. I have to say that it's a great series. It's more of a drama than an action show, IMO. There are a lot more episodes dealing with the characters and their lives than saving the day (although there is plenty of that to go around). The series started off slowly for the first few seasons but really picked up and had a great background to work with.

VOY I have only seen a fraction of the Voyager episodes, and from what I've seen there isn't enough to get me interested. I've seen bits and pieces from all times in the series and, while I'd watch it to pass time, it's not that great.

TOS The original series is boring. Funny, but boring. I'm sure it was great in it's time, but that is lost on me. I'm a child of technology and bad props coupled with worse acting just doesn't do it for me. Admittedly, I haven't seen many of the short 3 season series, but it's not interesting to me. It is funny though, in a cynical sort of way. The movies are better.

ENT Enterprise is alright. Nothing special. I think of it like Voyager. I didn't see most of the 2nd season. I saw the first, and about half of the 3rd. I do like watching it. I just don't find the time most weeks. The only show I make time for these days is Alias.

[wang_himself]

I have to say I do like Enterprise. I believe it comes from the fact that I see them use tools and technology that exists in our time frame. I have seen them use a mig welder, a plasma cutter and a rivot gun. All of these are things which I am familar with and I guess it makes the show seem more realistic than the others. I mean I can actually see humans attempting to do something like this in the next 200+ years.

[CrackedButter]

Enterprise sucks but season 3 has better stories, just.

Alot of enterprise doesn't make sense and messes up continuity for the other series. I could go into mroe detail but this website explains everything that is wrong with the show.

the main beef I have with Enterprise however is ENTERPRISE! I'm sick of hearing that ship, why do another one that looks like an akira? Some people call it Akiraprise anyway.

Here: http://www.firsttvdrama.com/enterprise/index.php3

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by CrackedButter:
Enterprise sucks but season 3 has better stories, just.

Alot of enterprise doesn't make sense and messes up continuity for the other series. I could go into mroe detail but this website explains everything that is wrong with the show.

the main beef I have with Enterprise however is ENTERPRISE! I'm sick of hearing that ship, why do another one that looks like an akira? Some people call it Akiraprise anyway.

Here: http://www.firsttvdrama.com/enterprise/index.php3

That site that reads like a parody, but is apparently actually serious. It's pretty hilarious, though, if you enjoy getting your dose of human stupidity. Like this gem:

The reviews I post here isn't to show what they did right, but to show what they did wrong and where they messed up. Because if I can see so many great potential scenes that were lost or never filmed, or so many badly written scenes that were put on film, then that is proof that I can do a good show of my own.

Is he kidding?! Just because you can complain and whine about a show proves that you could make a good show? That is the kind of thing someone would say while making fun of complainers. Heh, if that were true, half the Internet would be expert filmmakers, I think...

Also look at the front page of his site, where he gives a little timeline describing his attempt to pitch his show to a bunch of various TV stations, with each one ignoring him because they don't want his show. And in turn him rationalizing each one by saying the guy at the station was an idiot. Or a liar. Or he hates science fiction. Or he's malicious. Yep, the problem's not me, it's you! And you. And you, and you, and you...

Btw, what's an akira?

[Oneota]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Btw, what's an akira?

It's a class of starhips (like Constitution, Galaxy, etc). And you call yourself a nerd...

If you look around online, you'll see designs of Akira-class starships from the TNG/DS9 days, and it does look like Enterprise's designers had a distinct lack of imagination when you compare the two.

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

Originally posted by Oneota:
It's a class of starhips (like Constitution, Galaxy, etc). And you call yourself a nerd...

If you look around online, you'll see designs of Akira-class starships from the TNG/DS9 days, and it does look like Enterprise's designers had a distinct lack of imagination when you compare the two.

Ya the new enterprise is rather tragic, boring looking. The new Akira ones look totally cool though. I guess they are trying to lead to the fact that the Akira is a newer version of the first Enterprise.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by Oneota:
My all-time favorite DS9 episode is from Season 4 - "The Visitor." Great TV, even if you're not into Trek.

That's a very good episode. Very emotional. Makes me all teary. Poor Jake-o.

[Spliff]

Kill both franchises and bring back Babylon 5.

[Beewee]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Yep, I do - the pattern is that 3 out of 5 of these examples are from the same episode. And the other two aren't from Season 3.


One (admittedly bad) episode does not constitute a "kick". DS9 had the evil-Kira character in more than one mirror universe episode...

Really, because there has been a little sex does not mean the show is about sex. What it means is they have had low ratings and have tried to bump them every so often. But DS9 did that quite a bit too.

Season has nothing to do with this discussion so stop bringing it up.
Why does it matter which season any of this took place? You only take out the first 2 seasons to strengthen you argument; you pull out all of these episodes in DS9 -let's not forget that you are getting them from 7 seasons- and then try and throw out the first 2 seasons of Enterprise. (Or did you take you DS9 knowledge only from season 3? ) Why not just compare the first 3 seasons of both series?

All of those situations are from only one episode, true, and that only shows just how much sex they put into Enterprise. What about the whole "neural pressure" stuff that was added in season 3. More sex, more soap opera "Trip and Tipal getting together."
DS9 did have some I agree, I guess my point is that Enterprise pulled out the sex early on in it's life to get an audience base started.
I never said that Enterprise was the only Trek series that had sex in it. I said they had a lot of it.

[Oneota]

Originally posted by Beewee:
Enterprise pulled out the sex early on in it's life to get an audience base started.
I never said that Enterprise was the only Trek series that had sex in it. I said they had a lot of it.

And let's all be thankful for that! Woo-hoo! Beautiful women in skimpy clothes! Mere yards away from a warp coil! It's a friggin' Geek's Paradise!

[CrackedButter]

you have to admit however that the site does do a good job of showing us where Enterprise is going wrong, I wasn't saying I agree with him 100% on things as well but its around 95%, for example he could list a few things where they have gone wrong but they havn't, my knowledge supercedes his on those occasions and they got it right infact!

But Enterprise is painful sometimes, they do make silly mistakes and it hurts the show and the other ones thereby tripling the damage done to ST.

I wouldn't mind having B5: Crusade back anyway, it never got a chance or the number of chances Enterprise is getting.

Slightly offtopic but ALL Sci-fi in general seems a bit pants, ST, SW and the BSG (Battlestar Galatica) remake are poor (why did they ruin BSG???). Seems nobody can write a good sci fi these days or the variety in writing is writing to a formula to often or they take established material and ruin it because their vision is superior.

Thankfully I am writing my own in my spare time indulging myself to see if a large story is feasible with the idea I have. Makes me happy because I am making the rules in my story.

Originally posted by CharlesS:
That site that reads like a parody, but is apparently actually serious. It's pretty hilarious, though, if you enjoy getting your dose of human stupidity. Like this gem:


Is he kidding?! Just because you can complain and whine about a show proves that you could make a good show? That is the kind of thing someone would say while making fun of complainers. Heh, if that were true, half the Internet would be expert filmmakers, I think...

Also look at the front page of his site, where he gives a little timeline describing his attempt to pitch his show to a bunch of various TV stations, with each one ignoring him because they don't want his show. And in turn him rationalizing each one by saying the guy at the station was an idiot. Or a liar. Or he hates science fiction. Or he's malicious. Yep, the problem's not me, it's you! And you. And you, and you, and you...

Btw, what's an akira?

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Oneota:
It's a class of starhips (like Constitution, Galaxy, etc). And you call yourself a nerd...

No, that's an Akira, not an akira.

Originally posted by Beewee:
Season has nothing to do with this discussion so stop bringing it up.

Yes, it does. I am stating that Season 3 is vastly better than Seasons 1 and 2, which I didn't like. If you are going to bash Enterprise in its current state but most of your examples are from Seasons 1 and 2, then you are failing to make your point.

Let's look at it this way: Suppose I'm a PC troll and I say "Macs suck! They crash way too much! I get this box all the time:



Never mind that it was with version 7.5.3! I don't care if it doesn't show up in OS X - version is irrelevant, so stop bringing it up. Macs suck!"

Why does it matter which season any of this took place? You only take out the first 2 seasons to strengthen you argument; you pull out all of these episodes in DS9 -let's not forget that you are getting them from 7 seasons- and then try and throw out the first 2 seasons of Enterprise. (Or did you take you DS9 knowledge only from season 3? ) Why not just compare the first 3 seasons of both series?

Most of my examples came from Seasons 5 and 6 of DS9. I think that if you took either of those seasons and compared it for sex against ENT season 3, either one of those two DS9 seasons would come out ahead. So if you're going to be a puritan and bitch because of sex, you might as well be consistent.

All of those situations are from only one episode, true, and that only shows just how much sex they put into Enterprise.

No it doesn't. What it shows is how much sex they put into that one episode of Enterprise. That is, if they had put any sex in it at all, when in terms of the actual story there was no sex in the episode. There were only some scenes that looked sexual to certain viewers (and was probably intended to do so by the producers), but in reality, all that was going on was that they were getting scanned, which is a completely non-sexual situation.

[b]What about the whole "neural pressure" stuff that was added in season 3. More sex, more soap opera "Trip and Tipal getting together."

The neural pressure stuff is pretty mild compared to the "Dax gets broken bones when she has sex with Worf" thing that ran through Season 5 of DS9. That was even kind of offensive to me. The neural pressure stuff, well who cares really.

DS9 did have some I agree, I guess my point is that Enterprise pulled out the sex early on in it's life to get an audience base started.

Actually, they pulled out the sex because they are low in the ratings, as DS9 was in its later seasons. If that's what it takes to keep the show on the air, they bring it on! Because I like Enterprise (after season 3), and if it's cancelled, that'll be the end of Trek. And then the guy that started this thread will get his wish.

Originally posted by CrackedButter:
you have to admit however that the site does do a good job of showing us where Enterprise is going wrong, I wasn't saying I agree with him 100% on things as well but its around 95%, for example he could list a few things where they have gone wrong but they havn't, my knowledge supercedes his on those occasions and they got it right infact!

Interesting. My reaction when I read that site is that occasionally he has a few good points, but quite often I'm thinking "God, I'm glad that this guy isn't writing the show!"

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Oneota:
If you look around online, you'll see designs of Akira-class starships from the TNG/DS9 days, and it does look like Enterprise's designers had a distinct lack of imagination when you compare the two.

Okay, let's do it.



Okay, they look similar from the top. Now, let's try some other angles:

Front:



Do they look similar? I don't really think so.

Back:



Do they look the same? Not at all!

Side:



Not even close!

The front, from slightly below:



Don't look too similar to me.

(to give credit where it's due: the Akira pictures came from www.shiporama.org, and the Enterprise pictures came from www.trekconnection.com, except for the side picture which came from www.merzo.net.)

So... the two ships look kinda like each other from one angle. And completely different from just about any other angle. Whoop de fricking do. The ship design is actually logical for the prequel series, considering that:

1. The "flying saucer" is the trademark of human ship designs in Trek - it would be really weird to have a Trek ship without one, and that's where the bridge and most important sections have always been.

2. The Enterprise from the original show had a big engineering section in addition to the saucer, and the NX-01 has to look less advanced than it. If this is Earth's first long-range ship, does it make sense that it would be huge like that?

3. The engines have to be a safe distance from any inhabited part of the ship in the original show - that's why they have those long sticks separating them from the engineering section. And the NX-01 has to be less advanced than that, so it can't have solved this problem.

So basically, you have to have a flying saucer with some external engines attached. There are only so many ways to do that, people. I dare you to design a starship that's a saucer with attached engines that 1. doesn't look like any of the various Trek ship designs that have been designed this way (including Reliant, etc.) from some angle, and 2. isn't butt-ugly.

And of course, the million-dollar question is WHO CARES if the damn ship bears a passing resemblance to another one? For God's sake, really. How does that affect the quality of the writing or the episodes at all?

edit: hukd on fonix werkd four me.

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

Before Enterprise even aired everyone said it look like an Akira ship. They are VERY similar.

They both have no secondary hull. The warp engines connect to the saucer.
The only dif is the Akira has a bottom hull built into the saucer to hold the dish and the warp engines point down not up.

" An interesting note about this class of starship is that it looks a lot like the NX class starships Starfleet used in the 22ed century._ The two classes can be easily confused._ First, the NX class starships have their warp nacelles pointing up._ Also, Akira class vessels are a lot bigger (can support a crew of 500 people) and have a small engineering haul attached to the bottom of the saucer section.'

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
They both have no secondary hull. The warp engines connect to the saucer.

Originally posted by CharlesS:
2. The Enterprise from the original show had a big engineering section in addition to the saucer, and the NX-01 has to look less advanced than it. If this is Earth's first long-range ship, does it make sense that it would be huge like that?

Seriously, look at the pictures I posted. They don't look similar at all except from the top.

It doesn't make sense for the NX-01 to have the secondary hull. It's a small experimental ship with a small crew, made by a government that's largely confined to one planet with limited resources rather than by the huge multi-world Federation. Why should it be that big?!

And you still have to explain why it even matters.

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

Originally posted by CharlesS:

And you still have to explain why it even matters.

You tell me. I posted a sentence and you posted a photo essay.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
You tell me. I posted a sentence and you posted a photo essay.

You suggested to do a Google search and compare the photos. So I did.

You're making an accusation of the show based on the way the ship looks. I want to know why it matters the way the ship looks. Since you don't seem to know, and since you ask me for an answer, I'll tell it to you - it's because people like to bitch about things, and get a rise out of finding any little thing to whine about. It's like the old OS 9 squad who now hang out at thalo.net.

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

Originally posted by CharlesS:

You're making an accusation of the show based on the way the ship looks. I want to know why it matters the way the ship looks. Since you don't seem to know, and since you ask me for an answer, I'll tell it to you - it's because people like to bitch about things, and get a rise out of finding any little thing to whine about. It's like the old OS 9 squad who now hang out at thalo.net.

Oh the irony.

[Oneota]

Whoa, Charles. Take a pill! I'm on your bloody side!

But, in all the pictures, if you move the Akira nacells above the saucer, then the two start to look a lot more similar, no? That's the major difference other than some stuff hanging off the bottom of the saucer: the nacelles are below the saucer on the Akira class, above on the Enterprise.

Not saying it matters. Just that it's my impression of the design (which I like, anyway).

[eklipse]

I thought the geekiness of Star Trek discussions on 'teh intarweb' was greatly exaggerated.

I was wrong.

[Xeo]

CharlesS, do you really need these? It doesn't take imagination to move the nacells around. Here are the pictures of the ships that are "not even close".

Front:



Back:



Side:



I didn't even know what an Akira-class ship nor that this was an ongoing debate, but logic tells me, just from the pictures you've shown, that the designers of Enterprise used the Akira class as their design start. And if a little cutting, flipping, and resizing will help those with impaired imaginations, then my work has not been in vain.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Xeo:
I didn't even know what an Akira-class ship nor that this was an ongoing debate, but logic tells me, just from the pictures you've shown, that the designers of Enterprise used the Akira class as their design start. And if a little cutting, flipping, and resizing will help those with impaired imaginations, then my work has not been in vain.

Well, frankly, I hadn't heard of the damn Akira-class ship either until I first started hearing bitching about this. I'm not even sure what series the ship is from - since one of the sites I found those pictures at had some pictures of it shooting a Borg cube, I'm assuming that the Akira had a bit part as a ship that gets its ass kicked by the Borg in the First Contact movie.

Yeah, you could make them look similar if you moved the nacelles. And if you flattened the saucer. And if you removed a bunch of the extra junk on top of it. But IMO, those things change the look of the thing quite a bit. It's like saying a PC tower looks like a G5 - all you'd have to do is make it metallic colored and add handles. And the thing is - what do you want it to look like? I just don't think it's possible to make a ship in the saucer-and-engines style without the damn thing looking sort of like some other ship. And if you did manage to, chances are it'd be butt ugly. All the ships in all the previous shows had definite similarities to the Enterprise from the original show, and no one bitched about that.

I'm just pissed off because I've hated Trek for so many years now, and now it's finally getting to the point where I enjoy it again. And now that it's improved is when they are talking about canceling it. And here this thread comes up about how it 'needs to die' and what reasons do they give? Because it has sex in it, and because the ship looks like an older one. WTF?

[CrackedButter]

The designs are too similar, it does look like a modified Akira class starship.

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Well, frankly, I hadn't heard of the damn Akira-class ship either until I first started hearing bitching about this. I'm not even sure what series the ship is from - since one of the sites I found those pictures at had some pictures of it shooting a Borg cube, I'm assuming that the Akira had a bit part as a ship that gets its ass kicked by the Borg in the First Contact movie.

It was designed for First contact but they used it quite a bit in DS9.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
It was designed for First contact but they used it quite a bit in DS9.

I don't really remember seeing it in DS9. What was it used for - the big fleet battles? I suppose I could have missed it if it were in there since I was basically thinking "Whoa, that's a lot of ships!" rather than "Ooh, is that one an Akira-class? And that's ones a Galaxy-class! And that one's a Kumquat-class! And is that one a Fhqwgads-class???"

I basically noticed when one of them looked like the Enterprise from TNG.

[cnelson87]

I realize this thread is a bit old, but I never read it before, and this post absolutely deserves a HELL YEAH!

Originally posted by paully dub:
Nah, back in the day he should've made an unnecessary, but fun Han Solo film with lots and lots of Millenium Falcon chase/ dog fights and beaucoup scantily clad space honeys...

Oh yeah, and Boba Fett as the villain...

[Randman]

Data died? I guess that's one more reason to skip the nail in the movie coffin.

And as good as TNG was, none of its movies even came close to the classic's.





Kaaahhhhnnnnnn!!!!

And the one with the whales. And who can forget Scotty "using the mouse" on an Apple? And even though Patrick Stewart's a far better actor than William Shatner, Shatner easily stole the spotlight from him in their on-screen pairing.

[--Helen--]

I like the Shatner/Nimoy commercials for priceline.com

[capuchin]

I always used to think that you could slot "Star Trek" in with the old adage about sex and pizza - even when it's bad, it's better than none. Then I watched Voyager on and off for a couple of years. Hey, there was nothing else I could bear to watch on Wednesday nights. Sue me.

Voyager suffered from the "Enemy-Of-The-Week" malaise that is the hallmark of lazy writing; every episode starts with the ship and crew looking spotlessly clean and unblemished by whatever has happened the week before, and no matter what disasters may befall 'em, you can bet your ass it'll all work out okay. Each episode is it's own little show; you could take them out of order, and really not lose anything terribly important or inexplicable. It sucked all the dramatic tension out of the show, and made it a series of shallow, overlit parables about the tamest of human decisions. Character motivation was poorly established, and conflict was so poorly implemented that you lost interest immediately. The only plus side to the whole show was watching Jeri Ryan's unfeasibly large breasts bouncing around in a catsuit.

Enterprise suffered from the same problem in it's first couple of seasons. Every time things lagged, they'd pull out the "Will-we-see-the-hot-alien-chick-naked" card that pissed me off because a) I felt condescended to, and b) It's a cheap tease. I gave up watching it for a while.

But then, out of mild curiousity, I caught a couple of shows toward the end of the third season, and was pleasantly surprised. The show got good. There was conflict, and death, and consequences to actions. The crew were permanently scarred and damaged by the situations they had to deal with. Characters evolved, and (having actual actions and halfway decent scripts to work with) the actors just kind of lit up. Jolene Blalock and Scott Bakula in particular became fun to watch, because of the complete turn-arounds the writers put their characters through - T'Pol's Vulcan cool is looking a little splintered by emotional and serious psychological damage, and the captain is finding it easier to deal with the harder aspects of command, and those consequences. Neither is hammed up in the sort of "Grand Guignol" tradition of previous shows. They don't force you to watch the characters going through big, theatrical torments; they just show you what you need to realize the character is f*cked up.

I'm optimistic. Berman and Braga are stepping away from the franchise and bringing in much better writers - including the guys behind the story arc at the end of the last season. It's easy to write off the franchise - especially after the last few movies and series have sucked so bad (and, wow, did they suck huge), but I think Paramount have listened to criticism, and injected fresh blood. I'm willing to give it another shot, and for the first time in about 7 years, I'm actually looking forward to seeing the next season.

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
Star Wars.

A totally alien planet, millions of miles away, millions of years ago, and there is an American style diner?!...

Yeah, and they spoke English too. That's crazy!

Seriously, who cares if it was a diner? It fit in with the architecture of the rest of the planet.

[Oneota]

Originally posted by capuchin:
[snip]
[A bit about 3rd season of Enterprise]
[...] for the first time in about 7 years, I'm actually looking forward to seeing the next season.

[Timo]

Originally posted by I Me Mine:
Both.

[Gemini]

"The geekforces are going to tear this thread apart. I canna keep 'er together much longer!"

[greenamp]

Season 1 of Enterprise was neat, season 2 really, really, really sucked, season 3 started slow but ended up being very good. Can't wait for season 4 Traditionally, trek shows weren't very impressive at least until their 3rd season, so I don't understand what all the fuss is over Enterprise's first 2 seasons. DS9 was by far one of the best trek shows, and even it's first 2 seasons kinda sucked. Voyager got really good towards the end.

Enterprise nx-01 does look alot like an akira, but for the sake of the story line, one should say the akira looks a lot like the nx-01. Back to real life, surely there was some method to using the akira as the design model for nx-01. Big deal, the designers freely admit to it. To me it leaves something to be wondered in the storyline, which I think is good writing strategy.

[demograph68]

I haven't bothered much with the Star Trek franchise after Paramount was bought by Viacom.