[gorgonzola]

After the iPhone announcement, we were going to make room for it in the iPod forum, but then we decided that the forums could really use a more sweeping reorganization. These are the changes we're planning on implementing within the next week (and all of us are more or less in agreement about these), but we thought we'd run them by everyone first in case we missed something.

(1) Expand Games to include gaming on all platforms, including all consoles.

(2) Merge MacBook & MacBook Pro to create an Apple Notebooks (or Laptops) forum. The issues faced by users of those two machines are virtually identical.

(3) Merge Web Developer with Developer. Expand Developer to include all kinds of development.

(4) Expand Alternative OS to include all discussion of non-Apple operating systems, including dual booting / virtualization as a special case. (So any Windows/Linux discussion will be appropriate here.)

(5) Merge Unix into the new Alternative OS forum. Mac OS X-specific threads dealing with the CLI can go in the regular OS X forum; there is no reason to segregate these more technical topics.

(6) Expand Peripherals to a "Consumer Hardware" forum. This would include discussion of external hardware products including external hard drives, televisions, projectors, cell phones, PDAs, printers, scanners, digital cameras, speakers, and the like.

(7) Kill the AV forum. AV software can go in Applications, and AV hardware goes in the new Consumer Hardware forum.

(8) Rename iPod to "iPod, iPhone, & Apple TV." This will include any future Apple consumer hardware products as well (if/when the time comes). Given what these forums are, it makes sense for the Apple stuff to have its own place separate from Consumer Hardware.

(9) Internal hardware and miscellaneous other technical discussion goes in the Lounge (general questions about RAM, video cards, or internal hard drives, say).

We are planning on making all of these changes in the very near future, so please let us know soon if you have concerns.

[Zarqawi's Eye]

They sound good. Well-considered changes. The sooner the better.

[seanc]

Go for it, it's about time the topics were tidied up, although won't this break effgees new templates that we're all still eagerly awaiting? Any ETA on the new themes?

[mac128k-1984]

Regarding #9 why turn the lounge into a technical forum? Seems to me that posting a question regarding a hard drive for a powermac should go in the powermac forum and not the lounge.

[turtle777]

Sounds great

Will we get a new hampstor or not ?

-t

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 

Regarding #9 why turn the lounge into a technical forum? Seems to me that posting a question regarding a hard drive for a powermac should go in the powermac forum and not the lounge.

I agree with this. I don’t see why Consumer Hardware couldn’t take a lot of not necessarily external hardware questions, as well.

Go for it, it's about time the topics were tidied up, although won't this break effgees new templates that we're all still eagerly awaiting?

It shouldn’t... adding or deleting forums shouldn’t do anything to the design of the site—though you never know what kind of vomit vBulletin has up its sleeve to throw at you, of course.

[mergemedia]

#8 sounds like a good idea. folks are going to need a place to talk about the iPhone and all it's neat stuff.

[gorgonzola]

As for your point about the Lounge, it was more that we weren't sure where to put internal hardware discussion, and so we decided to just leave it in the Lounge (where it's always been). A question about an internal hard drive *for a specific machine* can go in that machine's forum, but if you have a general question about hard drives then there's nowhere to go. But the suggestion about throwing it all into Consumer Hardware makes sense to me, so we'll think about that.

This reorganization is completely independent of the new theme (except that forum links at the bottom will have to be updated). It's basically done, but we've been doing beta testing on it to iron out minor bugs and make some small enhancements. We're in the late stages of beta testing and there is no formal ETA, but it will be done soon. In fact, I'm now using it here myself and it works great. We expect it to be very polished by the time it goes live.

[jokell82]

Sounds good to me, and I think general tech questions should go in the lounge.

[rjenkinson]

what? general tech questions do not belong in the lounge. the lounge has always been the non-technical forum. the most logical place for general technical issues is in the consumer hardware forum.

-r.

[Zarqawi's Eye]

I agree. I dislike tech questions in the lounge.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by rjenkinson 

what? general tech questions do not belong in the lounge. the lounge has always been the non-technical forum. the most logical place for general technical issues is in the consumer hardware forum.

-r.

Only by use, not by design. By default topics with no appropriate forum should go to the Lounge.

[gorgonzola]

There are many technical topics that have nothing to do with hardware and so do not belong in any kind of hardware forum. It's fine to lump in things like RAM and internal hard drives that are indeed hardware, but miscellaneous spillover is inevitable. I don't think there will be a lot of it, and dumping it in the Lounge makes a lot more sense than creating yet another forum.

[brassplayersrock²]

be sure to have all the main pictures of your setup threads made stickies please. thank you

Alex

[subego]

I think #1 is cool, but this would obviously make it no longer a "software" forum, and considering the state of the Mac gaming industry, not really a Mac focused forum either.

Makes sense that it should be under the heading of "community", no?

[mduell]

The only two I'd object to are 2 and 9.

2. Both the MBP/PB and MB/iB forums are pretty active, so there are going to be a lot of posts in the new merged forum; not a dealbreaker, but when you have that much activity in one forum, I think it's a good idea to make it two. Also adds some ambiguity when people say "MacBook" and mean "MacBook Pro." Why not merge Mac Pro and iMac/mini too?

9. Technical discussion about "stuff" related to Apple's products doesn't seem to fit well in the lounge. Leave

[gorgonzola]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock 

be sure to have all the main pictures of your setup threads made stickies please. thank you

Alex

I don't know what this means.

Originally Posted by mduell 

2. Both the MBP/PB and MB/iB forums are pretty active, so there are going to be a lot of posts in the new merged forum; not a dealbreaker, but when you have that much activity in one forum, I think it's a good idea to make it two. Also adds some ambiguity when people say "MacBook" and mean "MacBook Pro." Why not merge Mac Pro and iMac/mini too?

Because the Mac Pro, the iMac, and the Mini are a lot more different than the MacBook and the MacBook Pro, and the typical user of those machines is quite different. Even Apple, for instance, lists both laptops when you go to Apple - MacBook Family.

[rjenkinson]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock 

be sure to have all the main pictures of your setup threads made stickies please. thank you

he's referring to the threads where people post pictures of their various machines.

-r.

[brassplayersrock²]

heh, thanks rjenkinson. I didn't check how readable my last post was.


Alex

[gargamel123]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Sounds great

Will we get a new hampstor or not ?

-t

The hampstor is unreliable maybe we should try something new.

[rickey939]

All the changes make sense to me, go for it! Thanks for the heads-up by the way.

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by gargamel123 

The hampstor is unreliable maybe we should try something new.

Hey hey hey! That hampstor has kept the forum going strong for years now! All it needs is a haircut (the mullet is REALLY not flattering), and we'll be set.

Oh, and I like the suggestions. A little apprehensive about #2 due to the sheer amount of activity in each forum (and the fact that people are bound to get MB and MBP confused), but it'll probably turn out alright.

[ducatisteve]

When I first saw the considered merger between mb/ib and mbp/pb, I didn't like it....but if you think about it, in the mb/ib forum where I usually hang out, it doesn't move all that fast, and a topic easily stays on the front page for weeks with few new posts. I think bringing the two together would make it flow better, keep it interesting, and open up the lines of communication for comparisons between the models.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

[Big Mac]

One point I'd like to make about the proposed reorganization is that it seems to me that Consumer Hardware should include discussion of internal computer components, rather than having that topic go to the Lounge. After all, internal computer components are still consumer hardware components, and it makes more sense to have such discussions there instead of in the Lounge, which does not seem well suited to computer hardware discourse. I guess I agree with mduell, FWIW. I also have a question: Would the Alternative OS forum include discussion of software for alternative OSs?

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

One point I'd like to make about the proposed reorganization is that it seems to me that Consumer Hardware should include discussion of internal computer components, rather than having that topic go to the Lounge. After all, internal computer components are still consumer hardware components, and it makes more sense to have such discussions there instead of in the Lounge, which does not seem well suited to computer hardware discourse.

Agreed.

There's usually posts about shaving one's privates or dead babies or American cars. Not a good place for a newb to be huntin' for answers.

Into the Consumer Hardware forum, the internal components discussions should go.

[osiris]

I also disagree with #9.

IMO the Lounge should remain the non-tech place it is because nothing posted in it should be taken seriously.

If a user has a serious tech question, there must also be a specific system attached to it. Things like RAM, HDs & Video cards are very specific to the system you're upgrading/buying. No one is buying RAM just for the fun of it.

Anything not fitting the system-specific requirement should go into the aforementioned Consumer Hardware Forum. Just my 2.

[Kevin]

Unless you are a mod, then all bets are off.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

can we get a update? (Feels like MacWorld but you don't know when its coming)

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock 

be sure to have all the main pictures of your setup threads made stickies please. thank you

Alex

I saw on Macrumors that they have a whole forum for those. Wouldn't that be a cool idea for a forum?

[- - e r i k - -]

Can the political lounge no longer be a sub-forum of the regular lounge please?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Can the political lounge no longer be a sub-forum of the regular lounge please?

Yeah, I second that.

-t

[effgee]

^ Thirded. I'd pay money to not have to look at the latest "post" headline in that ****hole ever again.

[rickey939]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Can the political lounge no longer be a sub-forum of the regular lounge please?

I agree...get rid of it completely.

[Demonhood]

so is the only reason for removing it as a sub-forum so that it doesn't affect the 'last post' bit?
because it'll make the main forum page that much taller.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Demonhood 

so is the only reason for removing it as a sub-forum so that it doesn't affect the 'last post' bit?
because it'll make the main forum page that much taller.

Is it possible to put just a link to the pol. lounge instead of the link and posting of the last thread as well. I think people just don't even want to see a single thread from the pol. lounge in the regular lounge.

Am I clear? That was hard for me to get across.

[Demonhood]

i don't believe vb allows that level of customization.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Demonhood 

i don't believe vb allows that level of customization.

OK. Just throwing out possibilities to please people.

I'll rethink it.

[Demonhood]

so the only real change from what gorg proposed above is that i think #6 should be:

Consumer Hardware & Components
which will consist of peripherals, hard drives, and things of that nature.

sound good to 'everyone'?

[rickey939]

Originally Posted by Demonhood 

so the only real change from what gorg proposed above is that i think #6 should be:

Consumer Hardware & Components
which will consist of peripherals, hard drives, and things of that nature.

sound good to 'everyone'?

Bingo.

[brokenjago]

Agreed. The Lounge is for Lounging, not answering questions about RAM.

I also second a seprate forum for "LOOK AT MY NEW MAC SETUP" threads. Keeps it much more organized. Less polution!

[Simon]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

Agreed. The Lounge is for Lounging, not answering questions about RAM.

I also second a seprate forum for "LOOK AT MY NEW MAC SETUP" threads. Keeps it much more organized. Less polution!

I agree 100% with both statements. I don't want to have to go to the lounge for technical discussions and I don't need to see the pic threads in otherwise technical forums.

[Curiosity]

Just out of curiosity, why did you make the pages no-cache (metacode in the source code)? I liked the fact that I could zap the white background in the topic lists, go to another page, then come back to the same cached page with the nice modified background. That no longer works.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Demonhood 

so is the only reason for removing it as a sub-forum so that it doesn't affect the 'last post' bit?
because it'll make the main forum page that much taller.

I'll take that compromise.

[pliny]

whoa when did this happen.