[PacHead]

It doesn't even matter if you're a has been pop singer with a once famous name (before it was changed and he converted). If you're unwanted, you're unwanted. And we certainly don't want those types here.

This is a clear message to all extremists & terror supporters: Stay home, especially if your name is on the black list.

http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/m...portaltop.html

[Twilly Spree]

I like Stevens' music but he's a traitor to our homeland.

[Ω]

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
I like Stevens' music but he's a traitor to our homeland.

Oh, he has a good tune or two, before he went and got all messed up with his conversion stuff, and had all sorts of wacky thoughts after that. He was born in the UK btw - so technically, he can't be a traitor to the USA.

[Carmen]

Care to explain why he is an extremist?

Because he changed his name to Yusuf Islam?
Because he is a Moslem now?
Because he condemned the terror acts of Islamists?
Or just because he is against the war in Iraq?

By the way, Cassius Clay also converted to Islam and changed his name to Mohammed Ali, this extremist terrorist sympathizer...

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Oh, he has a good tune or two, before he went and got all messed up with his conversion stuff, and had all sorts of wacky thoughts after that. He was born in the UK btw - so technically, he can't be a traitor to the USA.

Yeah well a traitor to our way of life anyway. That kind of people aren't welcome in my country! If they like it so much in the desert they can stay there!

[Taliesin]

What exactly was his bad deed to deserve not to be able to enter the US or Israel. Was it because he was once a famous singer and then converted to Islam? Or was it because he opposes Bush pubically? Maybe, Pachead, you could cite a link which lists his crimes.

Taliesin

[lil'babykitten]

This is outrageous. Yusuf is no extremist.

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
This is outrageous. Yusuf is no extremist.

He is a terrorist sympathizer and a traitor to the American way. Makes him not welcome in the land of Milk and Honey.

[lil'babykitten]

"Not only did the terrorists hijack planes and destroy life, but also they hijacked the peaceful religion of Islam and split the brother and sisterhood of mankind." -Yusuf Islam

Yeah, a real extremist.

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
"Not only did the terrorists hijack planes and destroy life, but also they hijacked the peaceful religion of Islam and split the brother and sisterhood of mankind." -Yusuf Islam

Yeah, a real extremist.

Remember Salman Rushdie? Something about killing him? Yusuf is an extremist and not welcome on my precious American soil. Thankfully we have good men like president George W Bush to prevent such men from entering our fair country.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
Remember Salman Rushdie? Something about killing him? Yusuf is an extremist and not welcome on my precious American soil. Thankfully we have good men like president George W Bush to prevent such men from entering our fair country.

LOL.

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
LOL.

This is no laughing matter!!

[Carmen]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
This is no laughing matter!!

You mean we should be glad that he wasn't put in a concentration camp (yet)?

[Twilly Spree]

The sooner people in the world start accepting that the muslim extremists are a viable terrorist threat the sooner we can end it.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
Yeah well a traitor to our way of life anyway. That kind of people aren't welcome in my country! If they like it so much in the desert they can stay there!

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
He is a terrorist sympathizer and a traitor to the American way. Makes him not welcome in the land of Milk and Honey.

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
Yusuf is an extremist and not welcome on my precious American soil. Thankfully we have good men like president George W Bush to prevent such men from entering our fair country.

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
This is no laughing matter!!

OMG!?! Where does one begin with all of this? Let's go step by step, shall we.

1) He lives in London and was on a flight from London. England does not have any deserts.

2) The "Land of Milk and Honey" was a frequent biblical reference to Israel NOT to a non-
existent country on another continent that had yet to be known to those in Eurasia.

3) "precious American soil" and "our fair country"?!? Do you **really** believe these terms describe the United States?

4) This is most definitely a laughing matter. From the decision to put him on the watch list,
to the US government's decision to not let him enter the country until after the plane was
airborne, to the mere fact the TSA did not catch his name *before* he boarded the flight.

Just as a reminder folks, the United States is NOT the greatest country in the world. There
are some great things this country has to offer but to think it is better than every other
country on the planet is simply delusional. There is NO greatest country, just a lot of different
countries with different strengths and short-comings.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
This is no laughing matter!!

Your posts are though.

[Ω]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Your posts are though.

[Carmen]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
OMG!?! Where does one begin with all of this? Let's go step by step, shall we.

1) He lives in London and was on a flight from London. England does not have any deserts.

2) The "Land of Milk and Honey" was a frequent biblical reference to Israel NOT to a non-
existent country on another continent that had yet to be known to those in Eurasia.

3) "precious American soil" and "our fair country"?!? Do you **really** believe these terms describe the United States?

4) This is most definitely a laughing matter. From the decision to put him on the watch list,
to the US government's decision to not let him enter the country until after the plane was
airborne, to the mere fact the TSA did not catch his name *before* he boarded the flight.

Just as a reminder folks, the United States is NOT the greatest country in the world. There
are some great things this country has to offer but to think it is better than every other
country on the planet is simply delusional. There is NO greatest country, just a lot of different
countries with different strengths and short-comings.

Thank you!!!

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Your posts are though.

So you are a European liberal that doesn't agree with me. I'm all tears.

I don't expect anyone to understand how great the US is without being born and raised there. Please try not to make this a personal discussion though.

[Twilly Spree]

How many of you are Americans anyway?

[realitybath]

haven't posted here for awhile but...

saw this this morning and thought i'd see how the squabbling was going here; looks like its on a downhill trajectory (me continuing?)

anyways, I don't understand how somebody could be suprised that this would happen to stevens, after a few minutes on the net, I read a bunch of links to what he said visa vie Rushdie, and I don't see how one (left or right) could blow that off lightly. Anyways, here's something i found that seemed to sum it up for me

(its from Salon magazine... its the first time i've read that site, so i don't know if its lefty or righty.. i'd guess lefty, but i don't know):

{Stevens} reemerged abruptly in late 1988, when he made the startling announcement that he supported Ayatollah Khomeini's fatwa against "Satanic Verses" author Salman Rushdie. He was again in the headlines, but this time, media opinion was decidedly not in his favor.

The flames of controversy roared within the music world and without. People were outraged. In the United States, artists stopped covering his songs, his albums were burned in giant bonfires and radio stations refused to play his music. One New York station launched a particularly ingenious form of protest: Trade in your old Cat Stevens records; get a free copy of Rushdie's book.

In the midst of the maelstrom, Islam issued a press release on his own behalf:

Under Islamic Law, the ruling regarding blasphemy is quite clear; the person found guilty of it must be put to death. Only under certain circumstances can repentance be accepted ... In response to a question, I simply stated the Islamic ruling on the Rushdie affair. Suddenly, my picture was splashed on the front of newspapers all over the world next to the headline: "Kill Rushdie says Cat Stevens."

Islam maintained -- and still maintains -- that he never called for anyone "to break the law or take it into his own hands," and that his only crime was honesty. He does, however, find the book blasphemous and supports its ban.

Clearly burned by the continuing backdraft, Islam now refuses to speak publicly about the fatwa, saying, "I have really nothing to do with it. I never really had anything to do with it, but people tried to connect me to it. And that was very, very unfortunate. It was picked on as something by the media to sort of paint me into a box." It never would have happened, he says, if he'd had a publicist to protect him.

Islam would also rather not talk about the Taliban or the horrors befalling women in Afghanistan, saying these dark aspects of his religion are products of the media and Hollywood. However, after many years of silence, he says he is ready to discuss Muslim education and aid, spiritual values and morality in a public forum.

thats from here(i know its outdated, but i just started looking - feel free to post something that backs his character up if you want)

Seems to me(i'm a canadian center-left) that he's a legitimate person for Americans to distrust.
I mean, yes, he's obviously a flake which could mean he doesn't mean what he says, but that also means he is an 'unknown'.

And what's happening now? He's just getting deported, right?

@Twilly and lil'kitten: you both seem to be saying some silly things.

[Ω]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
How many of you are Americans anyway?

Relevance?

Or are you looking for buddies to back you up?

You think you are fighting for freedom. All I see is the removal of freedom.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
I don't expect anyone to understand how great the US is without being born and raised there. Please try not to make this a personal discussion though.

Sorry, I was born and raised here and I complained about your descriptions of the United States in my previous reply to your posts. Do you really think you have to be an American to fully appreciate America? Because, what about all the immigrants who come to this country every year who say it is the greatest country in the world: How would they know if they weren't here to begin with? Do you see the flaw in your logic?

Oh, in case you were wondering, my family has been here for 150 years (mother's side) to over 200 years (father's side) to almost 400 years (step-father's side).

[realitybath]

the quotes from this 2001 bbc article make it seem like he is more cogent the closer you get to the present date, but I still think the American stance on him seems reasonable (though executed in a half-assed manner):

Mr Islam is a spokesman for the Forum Against Islamaphobia and Racism, which is made up of representatives of the British Muslim community.

{race/hate based violence} is unacceptable in our civilised world

We believe that the civilised world is a multicultural, multi-religious world. That is the type of message we want to get across

The last quote conflicts with his statements on Rushdie, so maybe he changed his mind on that whole episode? I've seen little to suggest he has in a completely open and heartfealt manner yet though (which is what i would expect from a true theist).

[Carmen]

Originally posted by realitybath:
<interesting post>

Well, that puts him in quite a different light as before!
I either never read those "news" or just forgot about them over the years but the most recent news (an article on yahoo) didn't mention this at all! It only said that he's a Muslim who is against the war in Iraq but also condemns all the terrorist activities...well, I don't know him personally...

But is he a thread to the great nation of the US of A because of this???

Someone on this forum wanted to create "a forest of pikes with impaled muslims" and that is IMHO lightyears worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by realitybath:
Seems to me(i'm a canadian center-left) that he's a legitimate person for Americans to distrust.

Why? Since when did condemnation of Rushdie (who is a complete idiot, but that's a whole new thread) translate to terrorist sympathising or Islamic extremism?

Sorry but this is absolutely outrageous. Yusuf has done a lot of work in the way of spreading the true, peaceful word of Islam. He has always condemned Islamic terrorism and has demonstrated exactly why it does not follow Qu'ranic teaching.

This sort of development in the US is of concern because it's dangerously close to a policy of refusing entry to any one who is Muslim.

[realitybath]

Originally posted by Carmen:
Well, that puts him in quite a different light as before!
I either never read those "news" or just forgot about them over the years but the most recent news (an article on yahoo) didn't mention this at all! It only said that he's a Muslim who is against the war in Iraq but also condemns all the terrorist activities...well, I don't know him personally...

But is he a thread to the great nation of the US of A because of this???

Someone on this forum wanted to create "a forest of pikes with impaled muslims" and that is IMHO lightyears worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no, I actually doubt that he is a direct threat to anybody, but the more I'm reading, the more I agree with the deportation, at least on a symbolic level. There is no way he is a 'threat to the USA', but there is a minor chance that he is
a)A threat to a few to a few hundred people (note that i doubt this, but given his history, it seems possible).
b)A minor contributor to terrorist organizations (although others may view them as resistance orgs). I also think this is questionable.

I just read the guardian report , and its got this other bit of his past:

He became a teacher and an advocate for his religion, founding a Muslim school in London in 1983. In July 2000, he was denied entry to Israel amid reports that he had donated tens of thousands of dollars to militant Palestinian group Hamas.

In a statement released by his record label Universal Music at the time, he said: "I want to make sure that people are aware that I've never ever knowingly supported any terrorist groups past, present or future."

Its not that i think he is a threat, its that he has a eratic history with both charitable acts and explicitly violent statements/possible funding of violence.

I think its just his eratic past (meaning his questionable statements/activities) that makes this justifiable on the american's part.

Though it is very strange to deport a 'potential enemy' to your current ally! Not a cut and dried case.

edit: re:" Someone on this forum wanted to create "a forest of pikes with impaled muslims" and that is IMHO lightyears worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " ::: i don't know the context, but yes, i would say that is lightyears worse. That doesn't prevent discussing the matter at hand however.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
This is no laughing matter!!

Excellent satire.

Whoever you are, you're doing a great job.

-s*

[realitybath]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Why? Since when did condemnation of Rushdie (who is a complete idiot, but that's a whole new thread) translate to terrorist sympathising or Islamic extremism?

Sorry but this is absolutely outrageous. Yusuf has done a lot of work in the way of spreading the true, peaceful word of Islam. He has always condemned Islamic terrorism and has demonstrated exactly why it does not follow Qu'ranic teaching.

This sort of development in the US is of concern because it's dangerously close to a policy of refusing entry to any one who is Muslim.

Uh, I'm sorry, but 'condemnation' is a spinning of what Steven's said.
1. He made it sound like he supported a death penalty for what Rushdie WROTE. That should worry you as a muslim MORE than ability to get into a country. (from what I have seen his explanations have been half-hearted.. i mean look at my first set of quotes: he said it wouldn't have gotten out of hand if he had had a PUBLICIST to protect him! That is not a thing a respectable man would say).
2. His "condemnation of Islamic terrorism" if you read the articles I have posted is not simple, since there is evidence that he MAY support it.
3. Can you show that he has demonstrated exactly why it does not follow Qu'ranic teaching?

I'm serious, I'm still reading up on him, but your throwing out just claims with no links/support. Actually, you seem to be stating your opinion in the face of facts.

And really, this does not seem "dangerously close to a policy of refusing entry to any one who is Muslim" .

I really don't understand how you can blow off his remarks about Rushdie(its irrelevant if you think Rushdie is an idiot in regards to the issue, though it is a valid opinion) - if you don't see a link between those remarks and terrorist tendencies you are blind to the logic of morality. (this is not to say those are now his views, just to state the link between what he has said, and why Americans wouldn't welcome him).

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by realitybath:
Its not that i think he is a threat, its that he has a eratic history with both charitable acts and explicitly violent statements/possible funding of violence.

Yusuf is a high profile Muslim and an influential character. The last government you want to believe is Israel. It worries them that a high profile Muslim is more likely to engage people's thoughts to see a different side of the story. So of course, resorting to smear tactics is the best way to silence someone like him.

Perhaps you'd get a more rounded opinion if you actually investigated the things Yusuf has done in his life since he converted.

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
So of course, resorting to smear tactics is the best way to silence someone like him.

: awaits a certain someone to come in and start the smear campaign :

[vmarks]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Why? Since when did condemnation of Rushdie (who is a complete idiot, but that's a whole new thread) translate to terrorist sympathising or Islamic extremism?

Sorry but this is absolutely outrageous. Yusuf has done a lot of work in the way of spreading the true, peaceful word of Islam. He has always condemned Islamic terrorism and has demonstrated exactly why it does not follow Qu'ranic teaching.

This sort of development in the US is of concern because it's dangerously close to a policy of refusing entry to any one who is Muslim.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/1...shdie-cat.html

NYT interviews Georgiu/Stevens/Islam and he says he supports the fatwa from Khomeini ordering Rushdie's death:

"LONDON, May 22 -- The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.''

The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments."

Here's another choice quote from the article:


Also on the show was Dr. Kalim Siddiqui, director of the Muslim Institute in London and one of the organizers of a nationwide demonstration against ''Satanic Verses'' that is scheduled for Hyde Park on Saturday. He said: ''I wouldn't kill him, but I'm sure that there are very many people in this country prepared at the moment. If they could lay their hands on Rushdie, he would be dead.

''As a British citizen, I have a duty, if you like, a social contract with the British state, not to break British law. We are not a pacifist religion. We don't turn the other cheek. We hit back.''

[deedar]

Originally posted by PacHead:
It doesn't even matter if you're a has been pop singer with a once famous name (before it was changed and he converted). If you're unwanted, you're unwanted. And we certainly don't want those types here.

This is a clear message to all extremists & terror supporters: Stay home, especially if your name is on the black list.

http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/m...portaltop.html

Why do you call him an extremist and terror supporter? Just curious what you base this on.

[Logic]

That didn't take long

Perhaps you should read the whole thread the next time, v.

[cpt kangarooski]

Twilly Spree--
Running the risk of making this a personal discussion, I am a little curious to know where in Tallahassee you're at, as I used to live there.

As for Y.I. I think he's somewhat flakey, but I don't think that he poses any actual danger to anyone. Mostly it sounds like he talks big, but that doesn't mean anything in the absence of a credible likelihood that he'd act (c.f. KKK), nor is there anything indicating that he's violated US law here.

Of course, as the law goes, IIRC, we can deny him entry without any reason at all, but doing so makes us look stupid, and frankly is stupid. It's entirely out of proportion and unjustified. And if we're acting stupidly in this regards, then where else, where it's not so obvious?

[vmarks]

Originally posted by deedar:
Why do you call him an extremist and terror supporter? Just curious what you base this on.

Extremist? His early support of a death order by a religious leader.

[realitybath]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Yusuf is a high profile Muslim and an influential character. The last government you want to believe is Israel. It worries them that a high profile Muslim is more likely to engage people's thoughts to see a different side of the story. So of course, resorting to smear tactics is the best way to silence someone like him.

Perhaps you'd get a more rounded opinion if you actually investigated the things Yusuf has done in his life since he converted.

OK
1. You will notice I used the word MAY (repeat: MAY). I don't take ANY government statements at face value.
2. "Perhaps... <general statement that belies all the posts that i've made in this thread and that i am in that process>" : I'm finding it hard, as every article i've seen so far mixes both Charity and Bigotry (I used the word ERATIC, repeat: ERATIC).
3. re:#2; LINKS PLEASE!!!

I'm sorry, i've seen posts of yours in other threads i agree with(i've only read a few threads here), but your arguments in this thread are very poorly formed. You can't convince people just with your opinion, you need to back it up with some sort of support.

I may even agree with you in the end, but as it goes, your arguments are non-substantial.

I mean, look at vmarks nyt article post(good link vmark)!!! Counter it substantially if you believe what you are saying.

[realitybath]

oops

[deedar]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Extremist? His early support of a death order by a religious leader.

Yup. Pretty extreme. Any current information?

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by realitybath:
3. re:#2; LINKS PLEASE!!!

If you're really interested in building up a broader understanding you wouldn't be looking specifically for information relating to his so-called extremism. Is it not best to read his own words and then make your own decision?

The following is an article that seemed to describe so well the situation Muslims are in all over the world. It was written by him about one month after the 9/11 attacks. He also describes his position on the Rushdie thing we talked about earlier.

http://www.fasote.org/ct/critical/cat.html

26 October 2001
My personal page in the history of Islam was added in 1977 (which corresponds to 1398 of the Hijri calendar), when news first broke that I had become a Muslim, 24 years before the world-shaking events of Tuesday 11 September 2001. Sadly for all of us, since then the world seems to have lost its balance: a violent group attacked innocent civilians, hijacked a religion and a large army is out hunting for their blood.

It seems that someone like me, having seen life from both sides � East and West � is appropriately placed to confront certain myths and to try to reduce the demonisation of a religion that is still appallingly misrepresented.

Like other Westerners, I was wary of approaching Islam. But after being given an English translation of the Koran in my late twenties, I discovered something different from the negative images portrayed. As well as belief in the one God of this universe, it was quite a revelation to find that the word Islam itself came from salam or "peace" � a notion light years away from the violence and destruction we have all seen in recent weeks.

Scanning the pages of the Koran, I was amazed how close Islam was to my religious upbringing as a child. Prayer and charity, paradise and angels were mentioned; the Gospel and Torah of Jesus and Moses respectively were referred to. Soon, the Koran was carrying me beyond home and customary landscapes to a new religious shore inhabited by people of whom I had always been told to be suspicious � Arabs and Muslims.

But, surprisingly, the Koran was full of stories and instruction from the history of mankind as a whole. It did not speak in favour of one special race against others. It said that although we may be from different countries and tribes, we are all human, born of the same original parents, Adam and Eve. The Koran says: "The best of people are the most God-conscious."

In 1977 I was listening, and quietly decided to embrace Islam. Since then, I have continued to be surprised by how little people know about a religion of more than a billion fellow humans. After the nightmare of 11 September and what has followed, it's vital that people understand more about Muslim beliefs � not just the views of the extremists.

Most newcomers to a faith go through an initially zealous phase � call it "born again" � followed by a period of measure and maturity. Muhammad Ali is a good example of that learning curve. I was no different. All I wanted was a happy, trouble-free life, which meant a change to my environment, as far away from the showbiz lights as possible. I stopped drinking but still continued to make records in the studio. Naturally, what the public didn't see was my spiritual growth, subtly softening the ragged edges of my character.

Meanwhile, I was still quietly learning about Islam. Married in 1979, within a few months I received the glad tidings: my wife was expecting. Unicef asked me to do a benefit concert for the Year of the Child � divinely timed by my reckoning.

Following that, I announced the end of my career as Cat Stevens and sold all my instruments, giving the proceeds to charity. Having assumed my new name � Yusuf (as in the story of Joseph, son of Jacob) Islam � I grew my beard slightly longer and donned long white clothes; an image which to the untrained eye looks shockingly similar to their idea of public enemy number one. This is another good reason why in-depth explanations about the meaning of Islam, beyond the shallow images, are desperately needed.

But at that time, and for years afterwards, I was too busy raising a family and establishing schools for Muslim children to stop and explain. I didn't realise how vital communication with the public was. At that time most of the media didn't seem very interested in my new life anyway; they were waiting for another sensational headline. That came ungraciously with the publication of Salman Rushdie's The Satanic Verses.

Still a relatively new Muslim, but being a well-known personality, I was invited to join a letter campaign requesting the publishers of the controversial novel to think again. They ignored the plea.

Suddenly the media tried linking me to supporting the latest fatwa issued from Iran. The fact is that I never supported the fatwa. Such is the irony. You wouldn't ask a Christian to deny one of the Ten Commandments; equally, as a new Muslim, I couldn't deny that the Koran � just like Leviticus in the Bible � forbade blasphemy and stated that if there is no repentance, it is a capital offence.

But what most people � and that includes many Muslims � fail to recognise is that the Koran repeatedly calls on believers to repent, to uphold the rule of civility and not to take the law into their own hands. So clerics and extremists who call for the assassination of civilians outside the recognised bounds of the Islamic state without due process are wholly out of line with the limits and spirit of Islam. The Koran again states: "And do not let your hatred of some people cause you to transgress [the law]."

I released a statement clarifying my position, but the press preferred to ignore it � perhaps for them it didn't go far enough. I was still learning, ill-prepared and lacking in knowledge and confidence to speak out against forms of extremism. But time taught me to try to avoid making that same mistake again.

The Koran expressly declares: "If anyone kills a person, except (through due legal process) for murder or spreading discord on the earth, it will be as if he has killed the whole of humanity."

Today, I am aghast at the horror of recent events and feel it a duty to speak out. Not only did terrorists hijack planes and destroy life, they also hijacked the beautiful religion of Islam and split the brother-and-sisterhood of mankind, many of whom are still sorrowfully ignorant and unaware of each other. The targeting of unsuspecting civilians going about their daily work was energised by nothing but blind irreligious hatred. Yet we should remember that this kind of atrocity has been a common occurrence, year on year, in many lands. My personal experience of the prolonged suffering and death inflicted on Bosnia at the end of the last century is something that I will not easily forget.

However, it is also good to hear spiritual and political leaders across all countries and cultural divides making it clear that such acts of murder as witnessed in the US have nothing to do with the universal beliefs of Muslims; and it is important that retaliation does not become a representation of Christian wrath. What we need now is for the whole world to rally for justice for everybody, and not just revenge.

The Koran states: "Repel evil with what is better and he, between whom and you was hatred, will become as a warm bosom-friend."

So out of the shadows of death, positive signs were arising. Tragedies can sometimes help break down the barriers of prejudice. In Chicago, three days after the attack, non-Muslim neighbours � Christian and otherwise � held hands in a circle to form a human chain around a mosque in which Muslims were praying. That chain, in the form of humanitarian aid, should stretch to those innocent and blameless people of Afghanistan and all fellow human beings like them who are now being bombed and barely surviving on the knife-edge between life and death.

If humanity can be revived through honour and deeds of compassion and charity, it is hoped that the tragedies of the past will herald a new tomorrow. The struggle to teach universal spiritual values is always going to be an astronomical task, and it's one I've been involved in for many years, through the establishment of faith-based schools in Britain and elsewhere. I was delighted that, in 1997, the British government finally agreed to give our primary school in London state funding. Previously, such funding only went to schools for Christian and Jewish children. A multi-faith society is possible; an educated and tolerant world doesn't have to be a distant dream.

Changing global paradigms certainly isn't easy. For some years now, I have been working with others to produce a catalogue of educational and entertaining CDs, videos and books through my Mountain of Light company. Our hope is to dispel the myths that have hidden the true picture and beauty of Islam, and to introduce noble principles that are so lacking in our material world.

As well as new works, I have been involved in compiling collections of my songs as Cat Stevens and showing the link between my past and my present life. I felt that I still owed something to those loyal followers of my words and music. I have also decided that royalties from the new box-set release in the US will go to the WTC Fund, as well as helping orphans and homeless families in war-ravaged countries such as Afghanistan.

I belonged to that idealistic movement that grew up in the Sixties and Seventies with undiminished dreams and hopes for a more peaceful world. There are multitudes of people around the world who don't want more war and destruction. And I, as a Muslim, am still one of those.

Instead of talking about "them and us" we should avoid the dialogue of war, whether it comes from Al Qa'ida, the Pentagon or anywhere else. Such talk leaves no room for law-abiding conscientious objectors, humanitarian aid-workers or peacemakers � all of whom could unitedly remain faithfully anti-terrorist as well as anti-war.

The last prophet of God, Muhammad, peace be upon him, said: "A believer remains within the scope of his religion as long as he doesn't kill another person illegally." He also prophesied times of tribulation and trials, saying: "The one sitting will be better than the one standing." Such words are urgently needed now to relight a lamp of clarity in these dark times, and to recognise the definition of that which makes a person representative or otherwise of the faith that all the noble prophets of God taught, and that I try to follow.

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:

Just as a reminder folks, the United States is NOT the greatest country in the world.

Then maybe you ought to leave it.

There
are some great things this country has to offer but to think it is better than every other
country on the planet is simply delusional. There is NO greatest country, just a lot of different
countries with different strengths and short-comings.

There is always one greatest country in the world.

I love how people are making it out as if this person's rights were denied. Nobody has any right to enter the United States.

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:

This sort of development in the US is of concern because it's dangerously close to a policy of refusing entry to any one who is Muslim.

We should.

[realitybath]

ok, this article supports stevens/Islam more(Islam as in his new name):

"last year he released a re-recording of his 1970s hit "Peace Train" to express his opposition to the war in Iraq.

Apart from his schools work, Islam also has founded a charity raising money for orphans and families affected by war in areas such as Kosovo, Bosnia and Iraq.

He has criticized terrorist acts by Muslims, including the September 11, 2001, attacks and the school seizure in Beslan, Russia, earlier this month that left more than 300 dead, nearly half of them children, The Associated Press reported.

In a statement on his Web site, he wrote, "Crimes against innocent bystanders taken hostage in any circumstance have no foundation whatsoever in the life of Islam and the model example of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him."

After the September 11 attacks, Islam issued a statement saying: "No right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action: The Koran equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity."

The above seems to suggest that he has shifted his views quite drastically (though i'm against religious people tying charity to their religious belief systems, which he seems to do).

Seems like he actually advocates intelligent discussion now (i'm hoping its because he's realized he made himself look like an ass with his previous statements because he was wrong)

and then check out this quote snippet(exactly as it is in this article ):

A government official said Islam was on the watch list because of "known associations and financial support to organizations believed to be aiding terrorism."

According to U.S. officials, he is an active supporter of Muslim charities.

Fairly vague and a very riduculous combination of statements.
I don't have a problem with the U.S. deporting him, but I suspect it actually works AGAINST American interests, since he seems to represent a westerner who has had a foot in both cultures and has recently discarded a terrorist mentality. (could be wrong about that of course)

overall, its probably not important anyways....
*que some posts with people running around with their heads cut off? * --->

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by cpt kangarooski:
Twilly Spree--
Running the risk of making this a personal discussion, I am a little curious to know where in Tallahassee you're at, as I used to live there.

I live in the north-eastern part, Leon county. Grew up in Pensacola though. I like living close to the Bay.

[realitybath]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
If you're really interested in building up a broader understanding you wouldn't be looking specifically for information relating to his so-called extremism. Is it not best to read his own words and then make your own decision?

The following is an article that seemed to describe so well the situation Muslims are in all over the world. It was written by him about one month after the 9/11 attacks. He also describes his position on the Rushdie thing we talked about earlier.

http://www.fasote.org/ct/critical/cat.html

See? that was a much better post!

Thanks for the article... i'll read it and comment in a couple of hours (have to go to a notary).

As to your question.. the first site I tried after reading the initial story was his site, but it was and is unreachable for me (last couple of hours) as its probably swamped with visits.


@MATTRESS: are you a bigot?

[vmarks]

Originally posted by deedar:
Yup. Pretty extreme. Any current information?

Here is a statement by Mr. Islam on the subject of Jews: "The Jews seem neither to respect God nor His Creation. Their own holy books contain the curse of God brought upon them by their prophets on account of their disobedience to Him and mischief in the earth. We have seen the disrespect for religion displayed by those who consider themselves to be 'God's chosen people.'" Yusuf Islam, Eyewitness (Tucson: Islamic Association of Palestine, 1988).

Yusuf Islam spoke at the New York Chapter of CAIR, in 2000. CAIR supports Hamas. The Islamic Association of Palestine mentioned above declares on their website that "Any political plan which does not restore Palestine to its rightful owners, the Muslims, and any plan which does no bring back rule by Islamic law will not bring about real peace and will thus only lead to further violence, bloodshed, and instability."

Extreme enough for you?

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Here is a statement by Mr. Islam on the subject of Jews: "The Jews seem neither to respect God nor His Creation. Their own holy books contain the curse of God brought upon them by their prophets on account of their disobedience to Him and mischief in the earth. We have seen the disrespect for religion displayed by those who consider themselves to be 'God's chosen people.'" Yusuf Islam, Eyewitness (Tucson: Islamic Association of Palestine, 1988).

Yusuf Islam spoke at the New York Chapter of CAIR, in 2000. CAIR supports Hamas. The Islamic Association of Palestine mentioned above declares on their website that "Any political plan which does not restore Palestine to its rightful owners, the Muslims, and any plan which does no bring back rule by Islamic law will not bring about real peace and will thus only lead to further violence, bloodshed, and instability."

Extreme enough for you?

I'm sorry but where does America come into this. All muslims are anti-Israel but this guy is Anti-American! It is obvious the way he dresses and talks that he's an extremeist and a dangerous man to the United States of America and probably a certified insano but all this Israel/palestine thing isn't what makes him dangerous. It is his denial and rejection of American values and I'd fight any such man to the death given the chance!

[SimeyTheLimey]

I can't say I really care that Mr. Islam was denied a visa to the US. He isn't a citizen here and visitors to any country have no right to entry, they come on the sufferance of the host government. Of course, we all want the watch list to be 100% accurate, but since that is impossible, I hope they err on the side of caution and keep suspect people out rather than let them in. Even if they are quasi-famous has-beens.

What is more disturbing is that someone on the watch list still got on the plane. I'd be rather concerned about that if I were a passenger on the flight.

[Ω]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
It is his denial and rejection of American values and I'd fight any such man to the death given the chance!

And will you put their heads on pikes as well?