[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by MATTRESS:
Then maybe you ought to leave it.

There is always one greatest country in the world.

I love how people are making it out as if this person's rights were denied. Nobody has any right to enter the United States.

Love it or leave it, I see. And, no there is not always "one greatest
country in the world". There usually is one dominant geopolitical
power for any given time period but that doesn't automatically make
that center of power an ideal nation. Simply becasue the United States
is the dominant geopolitical powerhouse in the post-Cold War era does
NOT automatically make it the best country on the planet in which to live.
'Nuff said.

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by _?_:
And will you put their heads on pikes as well?

Heck no I'd never fight them in any other way than honestly and I'd never desicrate their bodies. I'm not stooping down to their level. No thanks.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I can't say I really care that Mr. Islam was denied a visa to the US. He isn't a citizen here and visitors to any country have no right to entry, they come on the sufferance of the host government. Of course, we all want the watch list to be 100% accurate, but since that is impossible, I hope they err on the side of caution and keep suspect people out rather than let them in. Even if they are quasi-famous has-beens.

What is more disturbing is that someone on the watch list still got on the plane. I'd be rather concerned about that if I were a passenger on the flight.

BEST POINT OF THIS THREAD.

[lil'babykitten]

Not really. Just a different way of looking at it.

[OldManMac]

Interview with him, where he claims he did not support the fatwa.

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
Love it or leave it, I see.

If you don't love the country you live in then perhaps it's time to move, eh?

And, no there is not always "one greatest
country in the world".

Yes, there is. My country.

There usually is one dominant geopolitical
power for any given time period but that doesn't automatically make
that center of power an ideal nation. Simply becasue the United States
is the dominant geopolitical powerhouse in the post-Cold War era does
NOT automatically make it the best country on the planet in which to live.
'Nuff said.

Maybe you need to move. 'Nuff said.

[Ω]

Originally posted by MATTRESS:
Maybe you need to move. 'Nuff said.

Maybe you need to visit the world. 'Nuff said.

[MATTRESS]

I have travelled to 22 different countries. And based on what I have seen I live in the greatest country on this planet. 'Nuff said.

[PacHead]

I am not privy to FBI info of course, and I'm sure they have good reasons. However, the points have already been outlined in this thread. The Rushdie businesss, his alleged financing of Hamas etc.

We're fighting a war against extremist Islam, and those sorts of people are simply not welcome. Extremist islam = No good, and that's a fact.

Here's a musical tidbit. On the same plane with him was Marillion, another UK group I remember from awhile back. And 10,000 maniacs pulled a Cat Stevens cover song off of one of their old albums, after the Rushdie business.

[BoomStick]

His music sux is enough reason to deny him entry to the country.

[realitybath]

Originally posted by MATTRESS:
I have travelled to 22 different counties. And based on what I have seen I live in the greatest county on this planet. 'Nuff said.

Indeed! well spoken, sleeping device.

[Logic]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
His music sux is enough reason to deny him entry to the country.

Wouldn't that then apply for most "musicians" today? Britney Spears, Madonna, Justin Timberlake and the list goes on........... Or has the US monopoly on producing musical "talents" like that'

[icruise]

Originally posted by MATTRESS:

Maybe you need to move. 'Nuff said.

I really want to believe that you and Twilly Spree are just pulling off some kind of satire akin to Landover Baptist. Surely no one can be this ignorant and conceited in real life, right?

Oh, and don't forget georgewbush.org!

[Logic]

Originally posted by Icruise:
I really want to believe that you and Twilly Spree are just pulling off some kind of satire akin to Landover Baptist. Surely no one can be this ignorant and conceited in real life, right?

Unless 70-80% of all posters here(on both sides) are pulling the same stunt then we are seeing that people really are this ignorant and conceited in real life.

[realitybath]

Originally posted by Logic:
Unless 70-80% of all posters here(on both sides) are pulling the same stunt then we are seeing that people really are this ignorant and conceited in real life.

i also smell bad in real life

[PacHead]

Some of the people posting here should be denied entry in to the USA also, IMO.

[lil'babykitten]

Some of the people posting here shouldn't be allowed to leave the US.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Some of the people posting here shouldn't be allowed to leave the US.

Too late. I have been to scores of foreign countries. I only visit the ones on my "good" list though.

[Logic]

CAIR ASKS PRESIDENT TO EXPLAIN EXCLUSION OF YUSUF ISLAM
Former pop singer is second Muslim personality barred from entering U.S.

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 9/22/04) - A prominent national Islamic civil rights and
advocacy group today called on the Bush administration to explain why Yusuf
Islam, an internationally-known Muslim peace activist and educator, was
barred from entering the United States on Tuesday.

Islam, the former pop singer Cat Stevens, was removed from a plane bound
for Washington from London yesterday when his name showed up on a U.S.
watch list. The plane was diverted to Maine's Bangor International Airport.
A department of Homeland Security (DHS) spokesman said Islam was denied
admission to the United States "on national security grounds."

At a news conference today in Washington, D.C., the Council on
American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) issued a statement that read in part:

"Yusuf Islam is perhaps one of the most widely-known and respected
personalities in the Muslim world. He has a long history of promoting peace
and reconciliation and condemning terrorism. In a recent statement
denouncing the massacre of more than 300 people at a school in Russian,
Islam said: 'Crimes against innocent bystanders taken hostage in any
circumstance have no foundation whatsoever in the life of Islam and the
model example of Prophet Muhammad.' SEE:
http://www.yusufislam.org.uk/beslan.shtml

"Treating mainstream and moderate Muslims like Yusuf Islam as if they are
criminals or terrorists, without bringing charges or allowing for due
process, sends the message to the Islamic world that even those who seek
peace and condemn terror are not fit to enter the United States. We call on
the Bush administration to explain why Yusuf Islam was barred from coming
to this country and whether other internationally-respected Muslim
travelers or scholars will face such treatment in the future. This not the
way to win the hearts and minds of Muslims worldwide."

SEE: "Advocates Say Deportation Will Harm Ties"
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...04-370086.html

The Washington-based group also renewed its request for an explanation as
to why the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) revoked the visa of
an Islamic scholar who was due to begin teaching at the University of Notre
Dame. In July, DHS officials revoked a visa previously granted to Professor
Tariq Ramadan, a well-known Islamic scholar who is often described as a
"moderate" and a "reformer." A statement issued at that time by Notre Dame
said: "Professor Ramadan is a distinguished scholar and a voice for
moderation in the Muslim world�We know of no reason his entry should be
prevented."

CAIR, America's largest Islamic civil liberties group, has 29 regional
offices and chapters nationwide and in Canada.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:
.......CAIR......blah blah

CAIR is the enemy......Terrorist supporters.......Convicted terrorists.......etc......etc.......


It was funny, I was reading on some blog last night, when somebody was saying, just wait and see, CAIR is going to release some statement tommorow condemning this. They always get upset, when some terrorists and suspicious people get arrested.

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by Icruise:
I really want to believe that you and Twilly Spree are just pulling off some kind of satire akin to Landover Baptist. Surely no one can be this ignorant and conceited in real life, right?

Oh, and don't forget georgewbush.org!

This may all seem a joke to you but when world famous artists are stopped in even more elaborate ways than your average terrorist suspect let me tell you this is no joke. Oh no, there is no mirth in my mind as I consider the horrible atrocities Cat Stevens could have caused on a 'peace' journey. The radical muslim that he is with the trust of the people through his songs he could have carried a device to a crowd and detonated it. That is the kind of danger this man poses. That is something we have to keep out of our hallowed and blessed American shores. I am so glad the law enforcement managed to thwart this possible threat. Homeland security is working as we hoped. To prevent another 911 or similar act of terror on American soil. Never again I tell you!

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
This may all seem a joke to you but...

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that people who really think like your persona on these boards lets on actually exist in real life.

I have far too much faith in humanity for that to be the case.

Thanks for all the laughs, though.

-s*

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that people who really think like your persona on these boards lets on actually exist in real life.

I have far too much faith in humanity for that to be the case.

Thanks for all the laughs, though.

-s*

Have you heard of the president of the United States. He and I think a lot alike. We exist.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here]

:: nods and smiles; smiles and nods ::

[itai195]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
All muslims are anti-Israel

False

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by Icruise:
I really want to believe that you and Twilly Spree are just pulling off some kind of satire.

No satire here. People who don't like living here ought to leave.

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Too late. I have been to scores of foreign countries. I only visit the ones on my "good" list though.

Not only that but I live in the best one. That's why I always return.

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by Logic:
A prominent national Islamic civil rights and
advocacy group today called on the Bush administration to explain why Yusuf
Islam, an internationally-known Muslim peace activist and educator, was
barred from entering the United States on Tuesday.

Maybe because we have the right to control our borders and can deny entry to anyone for whatever reason we choose?

[Logic]

Originally posted by MATTRESS:
Maybe because we have the right to control our borders and can deny entry to anyone for whatever reason we choose?

I know. You are the "leaders of the free world" and everything

Like someone said: "Americans live in America, while Europeans live in the world" or something like that. You guys prove that again and again.......

[realitybath]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Is it not best to read his own words and then make your own decision?
http://www.fasote.org/ct/critical/cat.html

ok, i read that, and then a couple of other things off his mountain of light site and well, i still think that its legitimate that he is being turned back.

I mean, yes, he makes good points in that entry, and is articulate in the audio file that was linked, but it still strikes me that he has had a change of heart at 9/11. And is 3 years long enough for the American public to accept him. I don't think so, unless somebody can point to where he has actually addressed the things that people have quoted him as saying (not just headlines and headers as he seems to claim).

Before you jump at me here's what gets to me...

he may be genuine, but those entries of his don't don't really show it to me. Why? Here's my qualms :

Suddenly the media tried linking me to supporting the latest fatwa issued from Iran. The fact is that I never supported the fatwa. Such is the irony. You wouldn't ask a Christian to deny one of the Ten Commandments; equally, as a new Muslim, I couldn't deny that the Koran � just like Leviticus in the Bible � forbade blasphemy and stated that if there is no repentance, it is a capital offence.

That is an archaic argument! This is the sort of literalist idealism that convinces regular folk that religious people are nuts because they take witchhunt ideals and transfer them to the modern age. Its like he doesn't want to address what he said(essentially tacit approval) except through a medieval technicality.

Think of what people have been killed for through the justification of blasphemy or heresism. And in this case, a fatwa had been declared and he says: "if its blasphemy, then it is dictated that it is a just punishment". What? So, basically he has nothing to say, and doesn't know the issue, so he tacitly supports the 'authoritative experts', read clerics (he should have kept his mouth shut, or voiced a _qualification_). This ignores the more blatantly explicit quotes 'sourced' from him (And he just ignores them on his signature label?).

And then this bothers me too:

But what most people � and that includes many Muslims � fail to recognise is that the Koran repeatedly calls on believers to repent, to uphold the rule of civility and not to take the law into their own hands.

This is respectable, and I'm quite impressed with that (if it is part of the muslim faith). But contrary to that, He is showing hubris.. he uses that line within an argument about his (supposed lack) of stance on the issue, while he is in fact glossing over his stupid actions/words - HE IS PROTECTING HIS EGO, in the face of a statement that tells him to def: "feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do". He is not being a respectable muslim, by his own definition!

That seems to be basis of the problem with most of the stuff that i read of his;

Its hard to tell if its RC (religiously correct) pandering.

The problem with that is that, like being PC, the person who displays RC behaviour may be displaying self-delusional, groupthink-pleasing behaviour which is an indicator that their ideas are unlikey to be all that stable.

Now, if his views are delusional now, but he's stably delusional, that's ok, since he's locked into a positive feedback loop.
But, if he isn't stable... its been a long 3 years since he had his last change of heart.

Finally: .... damn, i'd quote, but fountain of light is down again...
anyways, he panders the RC message that multiculturalism and multireligious are the future WHILE being a proponent for the spread of his religion in the place of others, and slurs other religions.

He is very eratic, which is ok (since the logic religion must use to deal with reality must include contradictions) if he admits it to himself and integrates it into the message he passes on to 'us'. But he does not do that (with my minimal knowledge of Islam the religion, this 'feature' seems like its obvious to a layperson, and strikes me as a glaring problem that Islam has in modern practice).

Instead, he ends entries with "the only god is allah" - how is that multireligious sympathy when i'm a blend of animist/pantheist/extraelmentheist?

I think he would have benefitted with the integration of more of his zen dabblings (for technocratic zen bhuddist elements), along with some Leibowski tidbits (for a reduction in zeal level and the ability to enjoy life with delusions well utilized), into his Islamic beliefs.

Back to the roots; no, I don't think its such an issue he is deported, as he can still pursue good goals in the rest of the world that will influence Americans roles within the world. Good luck to him.

[itai195]

Originally posted by Logic:
Like someone said: "Americans live in America, while Europeans live in the world" or something like that. You guys prove that again and again.......

And that comment is at about the same level as Americans with superiority complexes. One doesn't have to look much farther than the debate over Turkey's EU admission to see that Europeans can be just as petty and inane.

[Logic]

Originally posted by itai195:
And that comment is at about the same level as Americans with superiority complexes. One doesn't have to look much farther than the debate over Turkey's EU admission to see that Europeans can be just as petty and inane.

Uh..... Turkey wants into the EU. The EU has certain standards that every nations that wants to join has to uphold. Turkey doesn't do that and therefore have to change their laws and system if they want to join. No one is forcing them to join.

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by itai195:
And that comment is at about the same level as Americans with superiority complexes. One doesn't have to look much farther than the debate over Turkey's EU admission to see that Europeans can be just as petty and inane.

I can understand that the EU doesn't want to allow Turkey to join. I wouldn't want Mexico to join our union and Mexico is a lot better. 2nd world countries have no business to be in union with 1st world countries. It's that simple.

[realitybath]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Some of the people posting here shouldn't be allowed to leave the US.

haha, frek! that made me laugh

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by Logic:
I know. You are the "leaders of the free world" and everything

I fail to see why it's so difficult for you to grasp the concept that we control our borders.

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by Logic:
Uh..... Turkey wants into the EU. The EU has certain standards that every nations that wants to join has to uphold. Turkey doesn't do that and therefore have to change their laws and system if they want to join. No one is forcing them to join.

Ah, so it's OK for the EU to have standards of admission but we cannot?

There isn't a big enough rolleyes icon for your blabbering nonsense.

[icruise]

Originally posted by MATTRESS:
Ah, so it's OK for the EU to have standards of admission but we cannot?

There isn't a big enough rolleyes icon for your blabbering nonsense.

If the question were about whether we should make Cat Stevens a state, then you might have a point.

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by Icruise:
If the question were about whether we should make Cat Stevens a state, then you might have a point.

Once again, we have the sovereign right to decide who can come here and who cannot for whatever reason we decide. Any questions?

[itai195]

Originally posted by Logic:
Uh..... Turkey wants into the EU. The EU has certain standards that every nations that wants to join has to uphold. Turkey doesn't do that and therefore have to change their laws and system if they want to join. No one is forcing them to join.

On the surface, but then you've got EU officials bringing up the liberation of Vienna 300 years ago as if that has any relevance today. Is two-thirds of the Austrian population opposed to Turkey's admission merely on these procedural grounds?

[PacHead]

It's funny how people are boasting about the EU or Europe, as if that's anything to loook up to. Look at Germany: Recent elections = Nazis & Commies - Is it 1932 all over again ?

Euroheads like to call Bush a Nazi. This is pretty ironic, seeing that the real nazis are where you guys are from, even today, and in significant amounts !

Europe is in for some deep problems soon, something I have said all along.

[Logic]

Originally posted by itai195:
On the surface, but then you've got EU officials bringing up the liberation of Vienna 300 years ago as if that has any relevance today. Is two-thirds of the Austrian population opposed to Turkey's admission merely on these procedural grounds?

Vienna? Could you provide a link to that? I haven't heard about that

And yes. A nation that doesn't provide equal rights to all their citizens is not welcome to the European Union. A nation that have committed continuous human rights violations(just as bad as Iraq) is not welcome to the European Union. Turks visiting the European Union are welcome. But Turkey as a nation has about the same chance of joining the EU as Israel, Iraq or any other nation that continues to violate human rights on a daily basis.

[realitybath]

Originally posted by itai195:
On the surface, but then you've got EU officials bringing up the liberation of Vienna 300 years ago as if that has any relevance today. Is two-thirds of the Austrian population opposed to Turkey's admission merely on these procedural grounds?

i don't know why anyones arguing against you?

mainstream media in canada is playing that as a heavily involving issues of euro-elitism based on elements of racism/cultural snobbery/association of lower living standards with lower civility. Of course there are also real issues of economic transitions/cultural integration vs. identity/etc/etc/etc. but your point still seems obviously solid.

[itai195]

Originally posted by Logic:
Vienna? Could you provide a link to that? I haven't heard about that

Link

I think there was an article in the Guardian about it too, but I don't have the link anymore.

[Logic]

Originally posted by itai195:
Link

I think there was an article in the Guardian about it too, but I don't have the link anymore.

Yeah, we have our idiots as well. Even if that was just one comment(probably just a figure of speech) by one person that in no way represents the whole EU community. But it was a stupid comment.

But that has nothing to do with the reason for why Turkey won't(hopefully) be allowed into the EU.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by MATTRESS:
No satire here. People who don't like living here ought to leave.

People who don't like the way their country is run have the duty to try and change it.

THAT, my friend, is the American Way.

Your attitude is what forced the pilgrims across the ocean in the first place. Congratulations, you Traitor.

-s*

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
People who don't like the way their country is run have the duty to try and change it.

Over my dead body.

THAT, my friend, is the American Way.

Aren't we the big hypocrite, Mr. Kraut?

Your attitude is what forced the pilgrims across the ocean in the first place. Congratulations, you Traitor.

Your attitude is why more and more Americans hate Continentals with a passion beyond belief.

[itai195]

Originally posted by Logic:
But that has nothing to do with the reason for why Turkey won't(hopefully) be allowed into the EU.

Why don't you want Turkey in the EU? I would have thought most Muslims would very much be in favor of its admission. Anyway, from what I've read I don't think it's quite accurate to say that prejudice has nothing to do with the reason why many Europeans oppose Turkey's admission.

Here's the Guardian article on Salon.com Link

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by realitybath:
i don't know why anyones arguing against you?

mainstream media in canada is playing that as a heavily involving issues of euro-elitism based on elements of racism/cultural snobbery/association of lower living standards with lower civility. Of course there are also real issues of economic transitions/cultural integration vs. identity/etc/etc/etc. but your point still seems obviously solid.

That's odd, because mainstream media in Germany is playing it as a vital question of human rights, hinged on the Turkish law reform that was just recently averted.

There is nothing "petty" or "inane" about human rights violations, and a body of laws reflecting their regular abuse. Nor is there anything "racist" or "culturally snobistic" about using them as criteria for closely-knit economic and political ties.

It *is* a question of "living standards", I suppose, if you want to be facetious about it.

-s*

[MATTRESS]

Originally posted by itai195:
Why don't you want Turkey in the EU? I would have thought most Muslims would very much be in favor of its admission. Anyway, from what I've read I don't think it's quite accurate to say that prejudice has nothing to do with the reason why many Europeans oppose Turkey's admission.

It's also ironic considering how many of the Ivory Europeans oppose immigration in general to their own nations, but, whine and complain when we turn people away.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by itai195:
Why don't you want Turkey in the EU? I would have thought most Muslims would very much be in favor of its admission. Anyway, from what I've read I don't think it's quite accurate to say that prejudice has nothing to do with the reason why many Europeans oppose Turkey's admission.

"Human Rights Violations".

I haven't met anybody opposed to Turkey joining the EU, provided they abide by fundamental rules.

Like, say, condemning torture. I know, difficult concept, and probably overrated.

But that's just how we are, us wackbards, old-fashioned commie Yoorupeens.

-s*