[undotwa]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
... Bipolar disorders too.

I never knew I was so smart.

[realitybath]

Originally posted by benign:
You are just confused because your 'fairy in the sky' god made
some of the greatest human minds gay and that would not be
in line with the dogma the liar's who made up his sayings teach
the superstitious who believe in all that kind of homophobic tripe.

Actually, if your going to be technical at all, the 'great mind' gays could be seen as a test of faith for those who should follow the great One. If they pass, and reject homosexuality then they don't go to hell.. but the hardest part for them would be rejecting something that appears to be connected to a good (gayness connected to 'genious') when that really hides its connection to evil (gayness connected to a 'immoral' and damning lifestyle/way of living).

The problem is, even if Zimphire did believe that, you couldn't disprove him anyways. On the other hand he couldn't prove it to you either.

See how great god (or the secular panrealistic mind) is... either side can only say true to their beliefs if
a.)each group segregates itself from the other.
b.)one group kills the other group off.

Oh, you may say c.)reason to one true systemwide logical conclusion, but that's frankly impossible when it comes to metaphysics.
d.) Compromise? Can you really stay true to dogmatic beliefs if you change them? (well at least the diehards won't go for it)


Personally, I always thought that if i met god i'd kick him really hard in the balls (or her really hard in the ovaries)... which isn't to say i'm not a religious person ;p Just that if god does exist, god deserves it.



@SimeyTheLimey... the arafat thing was just an ironic troll based on david frums lathering joy at being able to publicly comment on rumours of A's gayness just after his death. A dig at Frum and relevant to this thread.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ironknee:


but u are against gay marriage...

#1 you really shouldn't use images off my server.

#2 I am ALL for gays getting equal rights. Just like heterosexuals.

I've never came against that. Not once.

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Can you believe that Zimphire has 23 posts in this thread alone already?!!

No wonder he lives at home at 32, no time to go out and find a good job.

Wow, gay is the magic word

Tell me SWF, how do you know where I live?



I have a good job, OWN MY OWN HOUSE.

Would you like to see the deed?

Why you keep projecting this silliness is beyond me SWF.

Seek help fanboy.

Originally posted by benign:
You are just confused because your 'fairy in the sky' god made
some of the greatest human minds gay and that would not be
in line with the dogma the liar's who made up his sayings teach
the superstitious who believe in all that kind of homophobic tripe.

Do you even know what you are talking about benign? God doesn't MAKE anyone ANYTHING when they are born.

You have zero knowledge of such things. Yet feel the need to spread your pretentious doctrine to all as if it were fact.

Rev Benign and his cult of Dio.

[Chris O'Brien]

Talking of Little Britain, Matt Lucas is probably my favourite gay guy.

And Stephen Fry is up there too - he's the perfect host for QI

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by undotwa:
I never knew I was so smart.

I bet you are very creative.

I have found, with all "disorders" there are good parts about it as well.

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:

The point is that homosexuals have existed throughout history, but it has mostly been unnamed, and covered up and treated differently from the modern conception of sexuality. What people are doing is looking back with hindsight and saying that if these people were alive today, they would be called what we now recognize as "homosexual." It's the same historical people, but it is necessarily speculative.

There's a large tendency to back-project the ideals of our "modern-time" onto anicent peoples, the result of which makes us think that "homosexual practises were universally frowned upon during those times. In fact, we could very well be utterly wrong in that assumption. We all know about the ancient Greeks, but what about other cultures? In ancient Arabia, it was quite common for men to bond, sexually even, in the desert, a practise that continued well into the 20th century. The ancient Near East is full of acounts of such things, the culture of which has survived and continued through numerous religuous entities.

[realitybath]

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
We all know about the ancient Greeks

i always thought it was funny that the more traditionalist/conservative parts of the education system/governance demand the teaching of "The Great Classics", some of which came from cultures that worshipped gods that were the product of people and animals screwing.

[crazyjohnson]

Freddie Mercury

[mrtew]

Zimph... this could have been a good thread if you had not posted. Why do you have to ruin every thread by turning the subject around and then to yourself. Stop blaming others for what you do. You've been doing it now for three years that I know of. Every thread you post in except for some 'help with computer problems' threads turn into a big discussion about how christian and bigoted you are. Why don't you stop provoking people and just join into a real discussion once in a while without being such a twit?

[kmkkid]

George Bush.

[badidea]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I've seen a lot of people's lives ruined because of people that have called someone gay just because they hung around homosexuals. Or experimented once with it.
It happens. It's a fact.

Lives ruined because someone started to think said person would be gay????

What shitty place to live would that be?


favorite gay: Keith Haring
least fav. gay: Michael Jackson

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by mrtew:
Zimph... this could have been a good thread if you had not posted. Why do you have to ruin every thread by turning the subject around and then to yourself. Stop blaming others for what you do. You've been doing it now for three years that I know of. Every thread you post in except for some 'help with computer problems' threads turn into a big discussion about how christian and bigoted you are. Why don't you stop provoking people and just join into a real discussion once in a while without being such a twit?

Mrtew this would have been better as a private message no? Yes, yes it would have.

You don't go chastizing someone for "ruining a thread" then you go and make childish personal attack posts like this.

You are sure showing me the err of my ways.

I simply pointed out the obvious, and people got defensive.

[Fiend]

Originally posted by badidea:
Lives ruined because someone started to think said person would be gay????

What shitty place to live would that be?


favorite gay: Keith Haring
least fav. gay: Michael Jackson

He is just projecting and being silly.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Fiend:
He is just projecting and being silly.

No mr "I registered this account because I don't have the guts to say it on my regular one"

I am not projecting.

You know, some people *gasp* find being related to homosexual sex a bit abhorrent.

While you may like it, others may not.

And that is there perogative.

Unless of course you think you should be able to force your views or ideals onto other people...

Or call them names like "bigot" for not agreeing with your ideals.

And then get laughed at in the process for being a hypocrite.

[roberto blanco]

[Zimphire]

[Fiend]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
words

this is my registered account. how can i say something otherwise? what account should i be using?

and if your statement: 'i've seen a lot of lives ruined...' isn't an overstatement of the century, what the hell is it then?

edit: i found it again, thought you removed that statement. i see this a 3 page thread now, not 2.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Fiend:


this is my registered account. how can i say something otherwise? what account should i be using?

WOW a new user making "projection" comments to me. That isn't odd at all.



Unless of course MacNN has started putting comments about me, projection, or anything else in the user agreement.

Demon?

and if your statement: 'i've seen a lot of lives ruined...' isn't an overstatement of the century, what the hell is it then?

edit: i found it again, thought you removed that statement. i see this a 3 page thread now, not 2.

"I've seen a lot of people's lives ruined because of people that have called someone gay just because they hung around homosexuals. Or experimented once with it.
It happens. It's a fact. "

That isn't an overstatement.

You know there are support groups for this sort of thing?

This is just more of "I see homosexuality this way, so everyone must, and if not, I will make fun of them" type of post.

I should have just ignored it.

I find it funny the very same people who complain about me, or me posting in a thread, will post flaming trollish threads about me guaranteeing that I will post again.

They are their own worst enemy.

[Fiend]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

WOW a new user making "projection" comments to me. That isn't odd at all.



Unless of course MacNN has started putting comments about me, projection, or anything else in the user agreement.

Demon?


"I've seen a lot of people's lives ruined because of people that have called someone gay just because they hung around homosexuals. Or experimented once with it.
It happens. It's a fact. "

That isn't an overstatement.

You know there are support groups for this sort of thing?

This is just more of "I see homosexuality this way, so everyone must, and if not, I will make fun of them" type of post.

I should have just ignored it.

I find it funny the very same people who complain about me, or me posting in a thread, will post flaming trollish threads about me guaranteeing that I will post again.

They are their own worst enemy. [/B]

It doesn't take much to see how you tell everyone to stop projecting and being silly as you post it often. Anyone can see that. So, you are leader of a support group then? Been in one? Why not say that then, end confussion for your fanboys and be upfront when you make a wild claim? Is that hard? Otherwise, the statement of "I've seen..." is oscar mayer.

Because you are aware of a support groups, doesn't mean you know those people. See that? I just projected cause your statement was so vauge.

[SubGeniux]

Check the guy on the bottom right. Gay enough?

[benign]

Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

[ironknee]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
bla bla bla

[PacHead]

I don't have any favorite gay people.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
Check the guy on the bottom right. Gay enough?

James? Nah, he was married and had 3 kids (2 boys and a girl).

[dcmacdaddy]

One of my two best friend's, Stephen.

Concerning my favorite famous gay person I would say Ian McKellen. He rocks as an actor.

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
James? Nah, he was married and had 3 kids (2 boys and a girl).

Like we can really trust Christian sources. Look at that pose, he's a flamer! Just like that other gay-denier, Jesus.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Fiend:
It doesn't take much to see how you tell everyone to stop projecting and being silly as you post it often. Anyone can see that.

Sorry, you screwed up. You really need to take acting lessons.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ironknee:

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
Like we can really trust Christian sources. Look at that pose, he's a flamer! Just like that other gay-denier, Jesus.

Actually, I don't think Jesus really tilted one way or the other, though there is some evidence of a secret "marriage" to Mary Magdalene (or perhaps even just a short love affair).

I know you're just trying to be inflamatory, but at least try to pull your jibes from substantive sources. Then we can have a decent debate instead of the endless Christian bashing.

[BRussell]

There's also the lines that were supposedly edited out of Mark in which Jesus is said to have taken a young, partially-clothed man to a cave and shown him the true meaning of the Kingdom of God, if you know what I mean, wink nudge.

Was Jesus Gay? Both sides of the issue.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by BRussell:
There's also the lines that were supposedly edited out of Mark in which Jesus is said to have taken a young, partially-clothed man to a cave and shown him the true meaning of the Kingdom of God, if you know what I mean, wink nudge.

Was Jesus Gay? Both sides of the issue.

"And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false..."

[ironknee]

Originally posted by BRussell:
There's also the lines that were supposedly edited out of Mark in which Jesus is said to have taken a young, partially-clothed man to a cave and shown him the true meaning of the Kingdom of God, if you know what I mean, wink nudge.

Was Jesus Gay? Both sides of the issue.

is that the same cave zim lives in?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by BRussell:
There's also the lines that were supposedly edited out of Mark in which Jesus is said to have taken a young, partially-clothed man to a cave and shown him the true meaning of the Kingdom of God, if you know what I mean, wink nudge.

Was Jesus Gay? Both sides of the issue.

Yes, I've seen the arguement, and it's very flimsy at best. It's based on dubious (and incorrect) assumpitions regarding period vernacular, and has been completely dismissed within the academic community. There are a few people who still wave their hands in the air over it, but it's really a non-issue.

[benign]

Marcel Proust (1871-1922)

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.

Jesus, your backwards dog smells bad.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by benign:
Look! I AM DEEP!

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by benign:
Marcel Proust (1871-1922)

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."

Jesus, your backwards dog smells bad.

Matthew 15:14 - "Leave them alone: they are the blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."

[BRussell]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Yes, I've seen the arguement, and it's very flimsy at best. It's based on dubious (and incorrect) assumpitions regarding period vernacular, and has been completely dismissed within the academic community. There are a few people who still wave their hands in the air over it, but it's really a non-issue.

I don't think anyone takes seriously the suggestion that the missing passages from Mark suggest that Jesus way gay. But my impression is that the idea that these missing passages are real is taken seriously, if not universally accepted. It may have been taken out because it referred to an atypical ritual.

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Actually, I don't think Jesus really tilted one way or the other, though there is some evidence of a secret "marriage" to Mary Magdalene (or perhaps even just a short love affair).

I know you're just trying to be inflamatory, but at least try to pull your jibes from substantive sources. Then we can have a decent debate instead of the endless Christian bashing.

Funny, but I never 'pulled' anything from anyone. I mentioned no sources but to make the comment that Jesus, our lord and saviour, could very well be gay, in as much that he could very well be straight. I think Simey neatly wrapped up the dichotomy of people who assume that the default behaviour for various historical persons must be straight. Not true.

But... if you're up for a little bit of Jess is teh gay lover, then there's plenty to be said of the work of, Morton Smith. as you know, or perhaps not, that he has a so-called lost remnant of Mark's Gospel which had this lovely chapter.

""And the youth, looking upon him (Jesus), loved him and beseeched that he might remain with him. And going out of the tomb, they went into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days, Jesus instructed him and, at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God"."

[SubGeniux]

Oops, didn't see that someone else posted the gay Jesus stuff.

Flimsy MacNstein? What, as flimsy as him being the Son of some God? No mother? Walked on water, etc. Ahem.

What is more realistic? That Jesus was a homosexual who walked around the desert in the company of men, denying his sexuality due to the cultural climate? Or that he is God, born of a virgin and is up in heaven sitting on a cloud?

benign made a point earlier about famous historical personages being gay, perhaps Jesus' fame arose out of his mysterious (gay) character.

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by BRussell:
I don't think anyone takes seriously the suggestion that the missing passages from Mark suggest that Jesus way gay. But my impression is that the idea that these missing passages are real is taken seriously, if not universally accepted. It may have been taken out because it referred to an atypical ritual.

We come back to that basic assumption. Could Jesus have been gay? Who knows? There's as much evidence for him being gay, as there is for him being straight.

Gives a new slant on Paul's views on homosexuality.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
We come back to that basic assumption. Could Jesus have been gay? Who knows? There's as much evidence for him being gay, as there is for him being straight.

There's something called base rates though, and in the case of sexual orientation, they swing very heavily towards being heterosexual. I think it's fair to assume that any given individual, without any facts one way or the other, is heterosexual, for no other reason than that almost everyone else is heterosexual.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
Oops, didn't see that someone else posted the gay Jesus stuff.

Flimsy MacNstein? What, as flimsy as him being the Son of some God? No mother? Walked on water, etc. Ahem.

What is more realistic? That Jesus was a homosexual who walked around the desert in the company of men, denying his sexuality due to the cultural climate? Or that he is God, born of a virgin and is up in heaven sitting on a cloud?

benign made a point earlier about famous historical personages being gay, perhaps Jesus' fame arose out of his mysterious (gay) character.

What is more flimsy? That we have 500+ documented (and traceable) sources of the gospels that don't have this so-called lost chapter? Or one untraceable document (which supposedly hadn't been seen in over 1800+ years) that does? I have a vast collection of interesting manuscripts of spurious origin; supposedly "lost gospels", forgotten psalms, missing chapters, etc.. they're fun to speculate about, but aren't more than just curiosities.

Sure, anyone can speculate that Jesus was gay, no harm in that, but the truth is, there's far more evidence and documentation that says he wasn't.

Now, if you want to point out a possible gay biblical figure, Paul is a more likely candidate.

[MacmanX]

Hmm... Another interesting thread nearly choked to death with a big old boring flame war. Nice job guys!

Anyway, I like Rufus Wainwright. That cat can sing.

[ironknee]

Originally posted by BRussell:
There's something called base rates though, and in the case of sexual orientation, they swing very heavily towards being heterosexual. I think it's fair to assume that any given individual, without any facts one way or the other, is heterosexual, for no other reason than that almost everyone else is heterosexual.

agreed but...looking at it from a creative point of view, jesus did create a religion, then the odds may be higher...?

[Kilbey]

As the Yooper said while visiting his down state relation: "There sure are a lot of trolls here."

[gadster]

Thanks benign. Masterful work.

[benign]

Virginia Woolf (1882-1941)

It is fatal to be a man or woman pure and simple: one must be a woman manly, or a man womanly.

The religious: God save them from sanity.

[Zimphire]

benign it's almost like you want to be a prophet yourself.

Selling your own little cheap version of secular humanism as your religion with your muddying of your words to appear deep and thoughtful.

It's the stuff cult leaders are made of.

I just haven't figured out if you are trying to evangelize other people. Or just yourself.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Matthew 15:14 - "Leave them alone: they are the blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."

So that's where he was all that time.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by ironknee:
agreed but...looking at it from a creative point of view, jesus did create a religion, then the odds may be higher...?

Was Hubbard gay?