[ROBO58]

On Saturday I visited my local Apple store in NJ to test drive a Mac Mini. I am a PC user both at home and work. I am tired of the Microsoft experience (keeping machines upgraded/bug/worm/spyware free). I wanted to see the Mini since it can make use of my existing monitor, keyboard and mouse.

I was also open minded in upgrading to an iMAC G5 17" if it offered more value than the Mini. All the Mac Mini display units were 1.42Ghz with 512M. The iMAC G5 17" were 1.8Ghz with 512M. The demo loads appeared the same.

The first thing I did was open Adobe Photoshop Elements and select 10 JPEG's to view on both machines. I use that on my home PC and it taxes the PC. The Mini surprise me in that it opened the application and displayed the photos almost as fast as the iMAC G5.

I went through the O/S and the applications and I am impressed with the software stack and its capabilities. Its a winner.

My Apple store experience was disappointing. The two store employees that I spoke with were not comfortable with the PC to MAC questions and comparisons.

There was no available handout(s) that would help steer a potential PC crossover to the MAC. There was no Mini demo using a PC monitor, keyboard and mouse. There was no performance information for G4/G5 based Apple computers compared to PC's, which was one of my test drive objectives.

While the store had Mini's in stock none had additional memory or could be upgraded within the store, airport and bluetooth could only be custom ordered.

I learned most of what I needed to know through the help of Apple users who were in the store to pick up an item or to see the new Mini. Several used a PC at work and a MAC at home so they were able to assist. They were the true salespeople.

I walked out of the store without buying a Mini or an iMAC. I think the Mini is cool and I'll likely pick one up. The iMAC while beautiful could not convince me of its worth as shown(performance).

I hope that the Apple marketing folks have a handle on what it takes to get the crossover PC owner to purchase. While its early in the game they could improve their success.

Robo

[originalplaid]

someone who has a open mind! cool... the apple store here in Va was battling snow and a totally unprepared staff when the doors opened a few after nine. I also saw lots of people helping other people who were new to apples in general. but truthfully more people were there looking for Ipod Shuffles then Mac minis.

I think apple should really use a more "better is not subjective, this is better... try it for awhile."

The one person I converted that day already used Ichat to tell me how much smoother his slow mac mini with 256 meg of ram is then his fast fast windows machine can be most days.

[typoon]

Unfortunately that tends to be the case. Most People who work at the AppleStores don't usually use Windows and don't know much about Pc to Mac conversions. I think Apple's best sales people are really it's users. Not the Fanatical ones that aren't helpful and just tell you that the Mac is better than a PC but those like you met that are truly helpful. I can speak from experience that it's something i enjoy. I like to show Windows users what a Mac is all about. I also troubleshoot Windows and Macs so I can relate certain things when helping out a potential new Mac user. I actually did that this weekend with someone at the Tice's Corner store in Woodcliff lake. They ended up walking out with a Mini. Don't let the experience of the sales staff dissuade you from looking at and or buying a Mac. It's the the users that are really the true salesman for Apple. Then there are also places like the Macnn forums which are another great place to get info that you want/need before making a purchase.

Welcome to the Forums and hopefully to the Mac as well. It's nice to hear what your impressions were about the machines you tried.

[f1000]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't Tiger make better use of the G5's 64 bit processor?

[roybfr]

I am a fellow PC user that made the buy. The Mac is not totally foreign to me as we have a G3 and a G5 at work that I had setup in the past as well as my wifes G4. I have been jonesing for one of my own since we installed Panther on hers.

I have never seen anything but a Apple monitor hooked up to a Mac at a store (Apple, CompUSA or other) but I can tell you that on a decent CRT or LCD it looks just as good as the Apples. PLus you can pick up a good 17" LCD for around $300-$350.

A lot of people want to compare the performance of a PC and a Mac. IMO the Mac seems to multitask a little better, especially if you toss a lot of RAM in it. My wifes dual 500 G4 gets along pretty good even when she is running PS, Fireworks, Dreamweaver, FTP, Word and IE all at once. I would say that is performs comparitivly on those tasks to our 2ghz P4. I have not loaded down the Mini yet but on basic tasks it is just as snappy as my 3ghz P4 and I have only upped the RAM to 512.

Installing the RAM was not to hard, I was a little weary of poping the case open but it was pretty easy.

Probably the biggest plus about the Mac thought is I don't have to worry about my browser getting hijacked ever 2 seconds. This has become a hugh problem over the past year. I am so sick of haveing to run SpyBot, Adaware and a Virus scan on a near daily basis. Not only it is a pain but even with a fast machine all that stuff running in the background just bogs it down.

[originalplaid]

Is there a real "users" guide to switching anywhere? I trialed and errored when I made the switch two years ago - pretty much in the middle of nowhere with limited dial up internet - and am still learning.

My friend who just made the switch and I have already taught each other alot - we are both pretty savy at windows and have a few unix experiences under our belt.

Apple doesn't do a real good job of telling people how or why they should change, I think windows people using itunes for the first time is the best reason. I just usually tell them "imagine that for mail and calander and movie making and an acid like program... oh yea and you can take firefox with you!"

[Hi I'm Ben]

Apple store... great looking, completely stupid. Now I've only been to two of them where I had questions and that place is so frustrating. I don't know where they get these people. They can't answer basic questions ever. Then there is just some weird things.

I guess the most annoying thing was when i worked in Woodfield mall..

i went to the applestore every day for almost 5 months. The same people worked there everyday, yet they NEVER recognized me. The same people would constantly approach me at the computers and everytime I would tell them "Oh I work in the mall I'm just checking my email real fast" I just can't understand.

[Commodus]

http://www.apple.com/retail/feedback/

Best place you can go (aside from mailing Steve Jobs) to let Apple know what your experience is like in the store.

And yeah, Apple will have to rethink its training for sales reps if it's going to keep people switching. I don't expect them to have non-Apple displays - would you really want a cheap grey 17" CRT near those Cinema Displays? - but I would really like them to have staff that has genuine knowledge of Windows and x86 hardware and can make recommendations for 3rd-party gear if necessary.

Oh, and don't expect them to demo 3rd-party mice either. Apple is probably all too conscious of the fact that a one-button mouse (no matter how beautiful) will look bad next to, say, a Logitech MX510 with 8 buttons and scroll wheel.

[ROBO58]

Additional thoughts to consider.

The Apple Mini is a wonderful device for the technically challenged that want to get to the internet. The Mac is considerably more closed and structured than the Microsoft environment. That's not a dig but a glorious marketing opportunity.

I support my 80 year old mother in law, in another state, who's continually suffering from PC problems. She spends as much time downloading updates to keep her machine running than surfing the web and doing the things she finds pleasurable. She's on dial up...

If the Mini existed I would have snapped it up in a second. The Mini would save both of us the support headaches. Its so tuned for the times. There are millions of potential customers in this boat and millions of harried in laws doing the support function. Apple has to figure out how to get the message out. I see it, you see it, does Apple see it ?

To elaborate on the Apple store showing a PC monitor/keyboard/mouse. Show it to prove it functions then sell up. If I'm buying the Mini then I buy into the Apple way. I don't really want the PC keyboard or mouse since I want the simplicity of their keyboard and a single button mouse. It goes back to supporting the technically challenged, the mother in laws, father in laws. Kit the keyboard and mouse.

Robo

[realitybath]

Mac or pc... 99% of salespeople are useless.
They're like ceo's: they're usefull when somebody needs to be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.

Especially in tech., try to go in knowing what you want.
I'm in the same boat as you... leaning towards a mini (since its all i need).

[velodev]

Originally posted by realitybath:
Mac or pc... 99% of salespeople are useless.
They're like ceo's: they're usefull when somebody needs to be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.

Especially in tech., try to go in knowing what you want.
I'm in the same boat as you... leaning towards a mini (since its all i need).

As much as I agree with always being an informed consumer... I've always found Apple employees to be quite a step from the usual useless disgruntled salesperson, i.e. BestBuy or Circuit City for prime example. If one of the sales people didn't meet your needs with questions ask him for a fellow associate to help out.

When I go into my local Apple stores, my questions are typically more advanced than the casual shopper and 99% of the time the employee will give me some direct back and forth with a genius at the bar, no matter how busy.

[chrisutley]

http://www.apple.com/switch/

[originalplaid]

I was thinking something slightly less glossy and a little more practical... questions like:

How do I get the equvilant of mapped drives to stay after reboots without having to supply a password even though keychain swears everytime it will remember it?

or how do you stop network resources from going crazy when they can be reached via ethernet and wireless and you disconnect one or another and each medium is on a different subnet?

Things that come simple nature after years of dos/windows but just bring the blankest stares from us when we sit down and have these problems on a Mac.

Sites like this and osxhints.com work well but something more like :
ok so this is what you did in windows to fix something this is the mac equivilant.

[podshop]

Just a couple of resources for folks coming over to the Mac from Windows. There are tons of other resources out there, but here's a couple that might help:

Web:

From Windows to OS X: The Applications - http://maczealots.com/articles/applications/


Books:

Mac OS X for Windows Users: A Switchers' Guide by David Coursey - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...002300-9427029 * Note the reviews were not that great.

Switching to the Mac: The Missing Manual by David Pogue - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...002300-9427029 * This one had better reviews, and I own OS X: The Missing Manual, which I recommend. Pogue also does the Circuits column for the New York Times.

[typoon]

Originally posted by podshop:
Just a couple of resources for folks coming over to the Mac from Windows. There are tons of other resources out there, but here's a couple that might help:

Web:

From Windows to OS X: The Applications - http://maczealots.com/articles/applications/


Books:

Mac OS X for Windows Users: A Switchers' Guide by David Coursey - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...002300-9427029 * Note the reviews were not that great.

Switching to the Mac: The Missing Manual by David Pogue - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...002300-9427029 * This one had better reviews, and I own OS X: The Missing Manual, which I recommend. Pogue also does the Circuits column for the New York Times.

Not only that but David Pogue is VERY well known and respected in the Macintosh Community.

[liquidh2o]

I'm curious to know which Apple store in NJ you went to. From my experience Apple tries to hire a diverse group of employees to cover different aspects of the Apple experience, one may specialize in using a mac as a photo/video editing machine while another may specialize in network/admin duties. If one person doesn't satisfy your concerns, there should be another who can help you out. For the more technical questions you can always pull up a seat at the Genius Bar and fire away.

[andreas_g4]

Originally posted by ROBO58:
I learned most of what I needed to know through the help of Apple users who were in the store to pick up an item or to see the new Mini. Several used a PC at work and a MAC at home so they were able to assist. They were the true salespeople.

True. You'll probably see this everyehere arond the world. But be aware of the evangelist: Sometimes we (Mac users) are a bit, well, let's just say, um, ahm, hyperbolic?

[typoon]

Originally posted by liquidh2o:
I'm curious to know which Apple store in NJ you went to. From my experience Apple tries to hire a diverse group of employees to cover different aspects of the Apple experience, one may specialize in using a mac as a photo/video editing machine while another may specialize in network/admin duties. If one person doesn't satisfy your concerns, there should be another who can help you out. For the more technical questions you can always pull up a seat at the Genius Bar and fire away.

I guess it depends on which one you go to. I've been to Tice's Corner Woodcliff Lake, Edison, Marlton and Short Hills. I've found that in many cases even the people at the Genius bar have no idea.

[podshop]

MacNN's home page has a link to a guide on Ars Technica that new Mac mini users might find helpful:

A mini-guide to Mac OS X for new Mini owners - http://arstechnica.com/guides/tweaks/miniguide.ars

[starman]

Which NJ store?

[cheerios]

thanks for posting that ars link I just emailed to to my mom (who's mini will show up just after valentines day according to Apple)

[ROBO58]

The Apple store I visited was in Woodcliff Lake, NJ

Robo

[Gegenwind]

Originally posted by ROBO58:
To elaborate on the Apple store showing a PC monitor/keyboard/mouse. Show it to prove it functions then sell up.

Why? They want to sell their own displays in their store and for the rest the slogan is not very mistakable:

BYODKM - Bring Your Own Display, Keyboard and Mouse