[soeasedev]

Finally going to drop out old school blackberry and will pick up a new smart phone. Won't like android too much, so iPhone would be the way to go with. Still can't decide to pick up a iPhone 4S right now or wait for the iPhone 5 because so many messages mentioned that iPhone 5 is coming this year. Don't want to spend money on a fading away phone. lol.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by soeasedev 

Don't want to spend money on a fading away phone. lol.

You always will. Even with the iPhone 5, iPhone 8, iPhone X etc...

-t

[Big Mac]

Can you afford to wait, or is your Blackberry intolerable to you now? If you can afford to wait, sure wait for the next iPhone. That's what I think I'm doing personally. I'm still doing just fine with my 3GS, but by the time the next iPhone comes out I'll probably be excited to get one. But if you need a phone now the 4S is pretty great.

[Spheric Harlot]

It's a lot nicer waiting with an iPhone in your pocket.

[cgc]

If you keep waiting for the next big thing you may never get an iPhone. I'd get the iPhone 4S now unless oyu could tolerate your BlackBerry for another six months.

[P]

The next iPhone is not likely to be here until next fall. That's a long wait, and we have no idea what it will include.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by P 

The next iPhone is not likely to be here until next fall. That's a long wait, and we have no idea what it will include.

I disagree. The iP5 will most likely be summer, not fall. Personally I expect LTE support and faster processors. Maybe also a new size choice, we will see (my guess is yes, but that is just because I perceive a market for a larger size).

Personally I would wait, but it really depends on how limiting one's existing phone is. With the Cloud and Siri usage increasing, and apps getting more demanding IMO the latest hardware is generally worth waiting for if it is only 6 months.

-Allen

[ibook_steve]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I disagree. The iP5 will most likely be summer, not fall. Personally I expect LTE support and faster processors. Maybe also a new size choice, we will see (my guess is yes, but that is just because I perceive a market for a larger size).

Doubtful it will come this summer. Too soon. And Apple will be examining the battery drain on 4G LTE. That's going to take time before they'll release a product with it. iPad 3 might be the testing ground for that because the battery is bigger.

Different size? Definitely not. Apple is not going to have developers create apps for 3 sizes of device. Plus, it's been widely noted that the iPhone is the size that it is (and will remain that size) so that you can touch the whole screen with a single thumb while holding it in one hand.

Steve

[-Q-]

The 4S wasn't released until October of last year, likely pushing the release of the 5 back to give the 4S a full year on the market. Spring will likely see the new iPad and fall will be the iPhone's release. You have 10 months - I'd get the phone now.

[Eug]

I'm waiting for the 5 (or or 5S or 6), but that's because I already have the 4. The 4S didn't impress me too much.

[SierraDragon]

I think iPad March/April and iPhone 5 summer, nlt mid-September but likely earlier. Last year's October 4s release date was anomalous. Summer is a much better time to release such a product, and IIRC all other iPhone releases have been in the summer.

LTE is already prevalent elsewhere and will be in many US locations by summer. Not having LTE available is a huge liability for top end smartphones - especially with Siri being so demanding. Apple is facing increasing competition and will want to stay near the front of the curve.

I do not think Apple will fall behind in tech and also shift to ongoing (IMO poor timing) October releases just "to give the 4S a full year on the market." Anyway when the iP5 (or whatever they call it) is released Apple will not suddenly stop selling iP4s models.

Of course, delay of a key tech (e.g. NFC or the battery/LTE issue Steve cited) could always force a fall release.

And I do think we will see a somewhat larger physical display size added as the iP5 or as a choice. Apple sells a huge number of smartphones and has been selling just one size, 3 models. Obviously the 3G, 4, 4s is a great size but I think the market has room for a second physical display size.

-Allen

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I think iPad March/April and iPhone 5 summer, nlt mid-September but likely earlier. Last year's October 4s release date was anomalous. Summer is a much better time to release such a product, and IIRC all other iPhone releases have been in the summer.

iPods did rather well with a fall release for ten years.

It probably won't make a difference as long as it's before Christmas (though a summer release might make for a gentler ramp-up in production).

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

LTE is already prevalent elsewhere and will be in many US locations by summer. Not having LTE available is a huge liability for top end smartphones - especially with Siri being so demanding. Apple is facing increasing competition and will want to stay near the front of the curve.

"Huge liability"?

I disagree: LTE is currently, for all practical purposes, currently irrelevant.

1. There are a very small handful of markets that have more than just extremely localized (e.g. "centers of business districts") coverage, one being the UAE, and another, Sweden. Pretty much the entire rest is completely experimental or only just beginning deployment.

2. 3G does 7.2 Mbits. On a cellphone. If you want more, you're presumably talking about tethering. Which is not a "huge liability".

3. Siri's bandwidth gluttony is a myth that has been debunked. Siri probably isn't the bandwidth hog the WaPo warned you about | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I do not think Apple will fall behind in tech and also shift to ongoing (IMO poor timing) October releases just "to give the 4S a full year on the market." Anyway when the iP5 (or whatever they call it) is released Apple will not suddenly stop selling iP4s models.

Of course, delay of a key tech (e.g. NFC or the battery/LTE issue Steve cited) could always force a fall release.

Whatever the market, tech, and LTE coverage looks like in fall.

If it comes out in summer, it won't have LTE.

If it comes out in autumn, it probably still won't have LTE (as that won't really be that relevant until in two or three years' time), but it will have a slightly larger chance.

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

And I do think we will see a somewhat larger physical display size added as the iP5 or as a choice. Apple sells a huge number of smartphones and has been selling just one size, 3 models. Obviously the 3G, 4, 4s is a great size but I think the market has room for a second physical display size.

Nope.

In fact, I'd go so far to claim that having the single perfect size is part of the reason they're selling such a huge number of smartphones. And total interface consistency across all devices is the biggest aspect of that.

If you've tried out your friend's Android phone and really like it, you're going to have trouble getting the exact same experience you saw, even if you go with the same manufacturer. Because that particular model probably won't be available any more, and the new one(s) has (have) a slightly different aspect ratio or larger or smaller screen that doesn't work as well with your hands. (Not to mention that the one you tried was probably running a two-year-old version of the OS.)

A huge, huge, huge part of iPhone is that you see something and want it, and you go out and get it, knowing that you'll get pretty much exactly that, because:
a) all iPhones you can buy work the same, with very few but clear-cut exceptions (no FaceTime on the 3GS, etc.),
b) the iPhone you tried very very likely had the same software version on it that the new ones do, and
c) that applies to the App Store, too.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I disagree: LTE is currently, for all practical purposes, currently irrelevant.

1. There are a very small handful of markets that have more than just extremely localized (e.g. "centers of business districts") coverage, one being the UAE, and another, Sweden. Pretty much the entire rest is completely experimental or only just beginning deployment.

2. 3G does 7.2 Mbits. On a cellphone. If you want more, you're presumably talking about tethering. Which is not a "huge liability".

Although not the main reason, lack of LTE is one of the reasons I am not interested in the 4S.

LTE has already been rolled out here in Toronto, and several other large Canadian cities (and their surrounding areas), by multiple carriers. The plan by the carriers is to have coverage of half the population of Canada by the end of 2012.

And yes, the main benefit for me is tethering. The thing about LTE isn't the maximum speed, it's the lower latency, and better handling of traffic. This should make an enormous difference to tethered machines. Furthermore, in Canada, tethering is fully supported on iPhones out of the box (as long as you have a decent sized data plan). No jail breaking required. Also, there is better handling of moving clients, which should help both non-tethered and tethered (future) iPhones.

IOW, one reason I didn't buy the iPhone 4S is the same reason I didn't buy the original iPhone. The included wireless tech is already out of date.

BTW, here is the LTE coverage map for my area. Rather than being limited to just "centers of business districts", it's something like 2500 square km just for the Greater Toronto Area alone.

[P]

The main reason to have LTE now is that it makes carriers happy. Apple doesn't really care about making carriers happy.

I think it will appear in the iPad first. In an iPhone launched in September-October, it's a better than even chance. Any earlier and it won't happen.

The LTE launch here in Sweden is mainly for the dongles, to push some of that traffic away from the regular 3G bands.

[amazing]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Although not the main reason, lack of LTE is one of the reasons I am not interested in the 4S.

It seems that HTC has admitted that going with LTE was a mistake:

HTC: pursuing 4G over battery, size was a mistake | Electronista
"CFO Winston Yung acknowledged a lukewarm reception for fall devices but added that the company's philosophy throughout all of last year, where it was willing to make thick, short-lived devices for the sake of having 4G, was a mistake."

"Verizon sold nearly twice as many iPhones as its entire 4G roster combined, leaving any one LTE Android manufacturer with just a fraction of the demand."

It appears that those waiting for LTE on an iPhone are in for a long wait...

[Eug]

Originally Posted by amazing 

It seems that HTC has admitted that going with LTE was a mistake:

HTC: pursuing 4G over battery, size was a mistake | Electronista
"CFO Winston Yung acknowledged a lukewarm reception for fall devices but added that the company's philosophy throughout all of last year, where it was willing to make thick, short-lived devices for the sake of having 4G, was a mistake."

"Verizon sold nearly twice as many iPhones as its entire 4G roster combined, leaving any one LTE Android manufacturer with just a fraction of the demand."

It appears that those waiting for LTE on an iPhone are in for a long wait...

Not really. It doesn't matter that HTC used high power LTE chipsets from last year. The iPhone 5 will come out in 2012, and so will lower power LTE chipsets. Same thing happened in the transition from 2G to 3G. I waited for the 3G, when Apple was shipping a 2G iPhone. Usually, it seems to take about a year or so for the chip companies to get their power characteristics in order.

Furthermore, Qualcomm has already announced a new LTE chipset as of November 2011, and Apple had already been testing an LTE iOS device.



I think this means an LTE iPhone in the second half of 2012. Could it get delayed until 2013? Possibly, but either way, I'm not buying another iPhone until it gets LTE.

[Big Mac]

I feel pretty much the same way as Eug.

[besson3c]

When will there be a complete convergence of internet services with cell phone services, so that we don't need to pay for internet service from two separate providers?

Eug's post got me thinking that it would be cool to rely on tethering for all devices in the house and drop the home broadband, but I guess we're a long ways off for that.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Eug's post got me thinking that it would be cool to rely on tethering for all devices in the house and drop the home broadband, but I guess we're a long ways off for that.

Yeah, I think we're a long, long, ways off from that, considering my regular home internet access is 25 Mbps download and 7 Mbps upload, with a 300 GB cap (not counting a free period between 2-8 am, when I can download as much as I want). Plus, people are now even getting stuff like 100 Megabit or even 1 Gigabit pipes to the home.

Interestingly, things have gone the other direction, in a way:

AT&T Microcell: Use your broadband internet access to extend 3G service into your home

[boy8cookie]

There never will be an iPhone 5. Just sayin.

[cgc]

Originally Posted by boy8cookie 

There never will be an iPhone 5. Just sayin.

G5 iPhone next Tuesday

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

"Huge liability"?

I disagree: LTE is currently, for all practical purposes, currently irrelevant.

Sorry but that is wrong. Even if I agreed it was currently irrelevant, LTE's current technical relevance is not the point.

The point is that smartphone buyers perceive LTE as better than 3G and perceive LTE as coming in heavily H2 2012. Ergo H2 smartphone buyers will consider any smartphones incapable of LTE as being substandard.

Apple would be nuts to intro a flagship iPhone in H2 2012 without LTE capability. Even if the networks remain inadequate, Apple's top 2012 phone must have LTE capability.

Siri's bandwidth gluttony is a myth that has been debunked.

It is not about "bandwidth gluttony." Like Eug said,
"The thing about LTE isn't the maximum speed, it's the lower latency, and better handling of traffic."

I use Siri every day, and it is about how Siri works in practice. Currently, latency/traffic issues make using Siri much less than I think it can be. Although I agree LTE network integration will be patchy, when it does happen I expect LTE operation of Siri to be much superior to 3G operation of Siri.

In any event I would not buy a non-LTE smartphone in H2 2012.

-Allen

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

Sorry but that is wrong. Even if I agreed it was currently irrelevant, LTE's current technical relevance is not the point.

The point is that smartphone buyers perceive LTE as better than 3G and perceive LTE as coming in heavily H2 2012. Ergo H2 smartphone buyers WILL consider any smartphones incapable of LTE as being substandard.

Consumers, however, who are the people ACTUALLY buying smartphones, will not give a shit.

Until they actually have coverage. At the same price. And the same battery life.

In about two or three years.

Maybe.

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

Apple would be nuts to intro a flagship iPhone in H2 2012 without LTE capability. Even if the networks remain inadequate, the phone must have LTE capability.

I'll call you on that when the non-LTE iPhone 6 breaks all previous device sales records in late 2012.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Consumers, however, who are the people ACTUALLY buying smartphones, will not give a shit.

We are talking smartphones here, not the low end.

I think consumers do care about future capability when making a big purchase like an expensive phone expected to not be obsolete for 2-3 years. And by H2 2012 the LTE vendors will be flooding the world with how good and necessary LTE (allegedly) is even more than they are today.

I'll call you on that when the non-LTE iPhone 6 breaks all previous device sales records in late 2012.

Fair enough!

[amazing]

Here's a must-read article:

AnandTech - Investigating the Galaxy Nexus LTE Signal Issue

"The Droid Charge is another hilarious example of why you can’t compare bars at all, as the Charge shows a positively laughable 4 out of 5 bars in an area with very low LTE signal strength, whereas the Galaxy Nexus (moreover, Android 4.0) has a very conservative and realistic strength to bars mapping. Carriers love to make things out to be better than they really are, however, and the result is this kind of hilarious visualization which portrays LTE signal as being much better than it really is if you stare at bars all day."

"It might be surprising to discover that LTE coverage right now isn't nearly as good as 1x/EVDO, but these things will improve as the carrier's LTE rollout continues."

"Update:

"As predicted, Verizon has made a statement to The Verge and Computerworld stating that there's nothing wrong with the RF performance characteristics or baseband firmware on the LTE/CDMA Galaxy Nexus. Instead, they will upstream some changes to Android to make the device report its bars visualization in line with the rest of its 4G LTE hardware portfolio.

Translation: Verizon fiddled with the "bars of reception" to make their network look better and to make the Nexus look better (when compared to other LTE handsets with overly rosy/deceptive bars of reception.

[Chongo]

ATT is advertising on their website that the iPhone 4S is 4G
PDAs & Smartphones - from AT&T

[turtle777]

from the AT&T product specification:

4G* HSPA+ with enhanced backhaul

-t

[Chongo]

I looked at their webpage because ATT has billboards in Phoenix announcing 4G is here. I'm currently a Verizon customer. I'm off contract and want to upgrade from an LG Dare to the iPhone.

[soeasedev]

Originally Posted by cgc 

G5 iPhone next Tuesday

What's it supposed to be?

[P]

That was an in-joke. Back when Apple used PowerPC processors, there was often rumors that the Powerbook (the laptops back then) would get aG5 "soon". Since Apple product intros are usually on Tuesdays, the rumor was often "next Tuesday". There is no new iPhone coming soon.

[cgc]

Originally Posted by P 

That was an in-joke. Back when Apple used PowerPC processors, there was often rumors that the Powerbook (the laptops back then) would get aG5 "soon". Since Apple product intros are usually on Tuesdays, the rumor was often "next Tuesday". There is no new iPhone coming soon.

Kind of like saying "I hear the iPhone 5 will be much faster as Apple will (finally) remove all the debug code" although neither is funny, just trying to pad my post count

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

from the AT&T product specification:

4G* HSPA+ with enhanced backhaul

-t

According to the map, most of the Phoenix metro area is "4G LTE", with 4G (HSPA+/enhanced backhaul) in outlying areas.

I vist my in-laws from time to time. They live in La Verne(near Montclair) outside LA. They're outside the LA LTE area


There's an Apple store a couple blocks away from my house. I think I'll head over today and run some comparison tests betweenthe VZW and AT&T iPhone 4S. I'll see what the sales associates have to say as well. If The ATT&T version is truly capable of LTE speeds as their website claims, I may switch, depends on what kind of deal I can get.

[Chongo]

Screen grab courtesy of iPhone hacks

iDB who spoke to an AT&T rep about this report:

I just talked to AT&T and they do indeed consider the iPhone 4S as a “4G” device because of HSPA+. The AT&T rep I talked to agreed that it wasn’t a very fair denomination and said it was more 3.5G than actual 4G.

Phil Schiller, Senior Vice President at Apple had explained their stance at Let's Talk iPhone event:

Now, if you follow the phone industry, these numbers might sound familiar – 5.8 up, 14.4 down. Where have I heard that before? Well, this is what the majority of our competitors claim when they talk about 4G performance. The Motorola Atrix 4G, the LG Thrill 4G, the HTC Inspire 4G – they even put it in their names. We're not going to get into a debate in the industry of what's 4G and what isn't. We leave that to others to talk about. What's most important, when it comes to real-world performance – the iPhone 4S is just as fast as all these phones. In fact, we think with some of our software enhancements, it's even faster in real-world use.

In our opinion, you can probably say that iPhone 4S supports 3.5G network as it supports faster HSPA+ networks, but since it can support theoretical maximum download speeds of only 14.4Mbps, calling it a 4G device is misleading.

Guess I'll stick with VZW. I'll be using wifi most of the time anyway.

[Spheric Harlot]

^ In other words, the only people who could possibly give a shit about LTE are those who have no clue what they're talking about?

[P]

LTE is not a new generation in the sense that 3G was. The big deal about LTE is that old CDMA networks (=Verizon) are switching to it, but honestly it's yet another evolutionary step up on the ladder that got named "4G" after a silly compromise by ITU.

[The Godfather]

How much is true in the denomination "long term evolution"? How much of a long term are they talking about, 2 years? How is this going to fly with the CFOs and the marketing department in 2014? We had 3G since 2007. Is the plan that LTE will expand worldwide for 5+ years and enjoy the same high speeds in more places, even rural areas?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Consumers, however, who are the people ACTUALLY buying smartphones, will not give a shit.

Until they actually have coverage. At the same price. And the same battery life.

In about two or three years.

I guess that explains why Apple felt the need to compromise the new iPad's design by incorporating a larger chip process LTE chipset, and adding a bigger battery just to keep battery life the same... because nobody gives a shit about LTE.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'll call you on that when the non-LTE iPhone 6 breaks all previous device sales records in late 2012.

I'm sure the new 2012/2013 iPhone will sell very well, but I'll be shocked if it doesn't have LTE.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I guess that explains why Apple felt the need to compromise the new iPad's design by incorporating a larger chip process LTE chipset, and adding a bigger battery just to keep battery life the same... because nobody gives a shit about LTE.

I honestly underestimated the market pressure in the US.

Splitting the product line into TWELVE SKUs, just to accommodate a network technology that is COMPLETELY USELESS anywhere else in the world in its current implementation (as Europe's LTE works on different and incompatible frequencies) was something I really could not imagine happening.

Do you think they'll similarly botch the iPhone, or will they make it an LTE world phone?

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Guess I'll stick with VZW. I'll be using wifi most of the time anyway.

This is from my VZW iPhone 4S at Culver's


Not bad for a fast food joint!

[design219]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Not bad for a fast food joint!

mmmm. Love Culver's.