[Gamoe]

I've held off posting this to any public forums, in the hopes that I could solve my problems directly and privately with Ars. But I've let more than enough time pass by and that does not appear to be the case. And I want to let any potential Ars subscribers know what to expect.

Ars Technica is/has been a favorite site of mine. Some time back they established subscriptions, in order to better finance the site. I understand that that many people, servers and bandwidth must end up costing a pretty penny at the end of the day, and they are an independently-owned site, which I like. So to show my appreciation I paid for a "subscription" last year. They give you some perks-- posting on some forums, etc... But I see it pretty much as a donation.

I paid via Pay-Pal. This year, I could not really afford to pay for a subscription. However, I get a "receipt" from PayPal "confirming" my payment of $25 to Ars. Turns out it was a recurring payment, and I hadn't realized that it was there so I never cancelled it. Big mistake.

This was on December 17, 2005. That very day I cancelled the recurring charge and sent out an e-Mail to Ars asking to cancel the subscription for a refund. I received no reply. Here is the e-Mail I sent:

Hello,

I just got an e-Mail "receipt" of my Ars Technica Subscription.

Although, I do enjoy Ars and would like to contribute to it, I cannot afford this at this moment! I was not aware this was a recurring payment, nor did I get any kind of pre-confirmation via e-Mail or otherwise.

So please kindly remove my Premier status and return this money to my PayPal account. I'm sure I'll buy an Ars shirt or some thing this coming year, but right now I just cannot afford this. My information is as follows:

Cancellation Date: Dec. 17, 2005
Subscription Name: Ars Technica Basic Subscription
Subscription Number: .........
Item Number: ..........


Thank you,

Gabriel Morales

I later re-sent almost this exact same e-Mail on December 22. Still no reply. I even sent one of the man guys there "Caesar" a PM via the Ars board. Still no reply. So, ultimately I had to file a dispute with PayPal. PayPal's policy is that if one of the parties involved in a dispute does not respond they automatically decide in favor of the other party. PayPal used the same e-Mail address I used to send Ars those e-Mails. And they responded, saying it was my responsibility, etc., etc.

The funny thing is PayPal actually decided in my favor, and they sent Ars e-Mails urging them to refund me the money, but apparently they cannot force them to do so, and according to PayPal's policy they can not refund me the money because it was an "intangible" item, even though I was careful not to use any of the benefits the subscription offers and that can be proven.

In the end, this has really soured my view of Ars. I admit I should have checked my PayPal account and cancel. I wish I would have-- then there would have been no opportunity for any of this to occur. However, that Ars was not willing to give me even a partial refund, considering I sent a notice to cancel the first day, is wrong and quite possibly even illegal.

I know it costs Ars money to charge from PayPal-- I was willing to have that amount deducted from a refund. But the worse part of this is how they just ignored me. That's just plain unprofessional and unfriendly.

Not only was this a loss for me, but for Ars. I would have probably gotten a subscription later, or at least donate or buy some of their merchandise. But, from now on, Ars is not getting any money in any way from me. It's kind of tough and mystifying for me to see an organization I appreciated treat me so unappreciatively.

That's my story. Be aware of this if you're planning on supporting Ars anytime.

[The Godfather]

It was not in the fine print?

Regardless of Ars Technica sleaziness (or lack of), they are still one of the best producers of content and analysis of the PC industry.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

It was not in the fine print?

Regardless of Ars Technica sleaziness (or lack of), they are still one of the best producers of content and analysis of the PC industry.

That may be so, and I may still read the site, but because of their actions (or lack thereof) they've lost a contributer.

[Gamoe]

I have to add that finally, today Ars completely refunded my money, which I didn't expect.

[Lateralus]

My subscription should be ending pretty soon. I need to keep an eye on the auto-renewal.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

My subscription should be ending pretty soon. I need to keep an eye on the auto-renewal.

I am convinced that the auto-renewal "feature" was created for the benefit of the sellers, not buyers. They try to take out your money, without so much as a warning a few days prior, as fast as they can and then send you a confirmation sometimes quoting your "legal agreement" or "contract", as if to say "Ha ha, we got you!".

It doesn't fly with me, and now I am very untrusting of my credit card with PayPal. I will only put money in there when I need it and retract my card as soon as possible after.

I sent payment to a company once which warned about the auto-renewal and highly suggested you cancel it. They even sent instructions on how to do so. They got my respect.

[Kevin]

Yeah what a sleazy thing for them to do. I am betting they have been getting more than a few canceled accounts.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Yeah what a sleazy thing for them to do. I am betting they have been getting more than a few canceled accounts.

I was told that I was trying to do a "smear job" on Ars and that I was "mean-spirited" when I posted this on their boards. I didn't realize that they had a forum to deal with subscription issues. One would first assume that that sort of thing would be best handled via e-Mail instead.

Of course, everything was done according to the contract, I should have cancelled, I should have posted in the forum first, blah, blah, blah. I don't necessarily believe in "the customer is always right", but how about "cut the customer some slack" at least? And they still have no explanation for my ignored e-Mails, except to claim they never got them. Though, somehow they got PayPal's e-Mail to that same address.

Well, anyway, in the end, they gave me my refund, so I am happy about that. It might have honestly been just a misunderstanding, although without an explanation of what happened to the e-Mails I sent I can't say I'm sure it was, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and just accept it as such.

[Kevin]

Well if they gave you your refund...

[m a d r a]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

I was told that I was trying to do a "smear job" on Ars and that I was "mean-spirited" when I posted this on their boards......

feck them! - you gave them three chances to respond to your emails about this before you publicised it and they didnae even think you worthy of a reply. then when you go public about it and they start getting a bit of bad publicity, all of a sudden the money gets refunded.

i'm in the middle of a similar situation with a former broadband supplier, which will hopefully be resolved quite soon [i'll prob post about it when it is] but that was exactly the same situation - the company concerned treated me in a similar way for several months, until i started posting about my experience with them around the internet. within days, as if by magic, they were suddenly able to sort my problem out.

it's time big companies realised they can no longer hide behind faceless support departments and treat their customers with disdain and get away with it. the internet allows anyone with a bit of 'web-savvy' to hit them back where it hurts.

good for you

[Leia's Left Bun]

That's pretty rotten. Call your credit card company directly to deal with the charges.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

it's time big companies realised they can no longer hide behind faceless support departments and treat their customers with disdain and get away with it. the internet allows anyone with a bit of 'web-savvy' to hit them back where it hurts.

good for you

That's the thing... Ars is not a "big company".. I didn't expect that from them at all. I'd expected that kind of treatment from them as little as I'd expect MacNN to treat me that way were there subscriptions for MacNN.