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Rex · Jun 14, 2002, 12:03 PM

Apple is offering a GeForce 4 Ti kit for their post2001 PowerMacs. This maybe a silly question: Is this card really worth it if you don't use any specific graphics or games? I have a Quicksilver 733 with the standard GeForce 2. Would I see any improvement in normal use?

D'Espice · Jun 14, 2002, 12:09 PM

No, it's definitely not worth a dime if you're not a hardcore gamer, the only improvement are the higher frame rates in 3D games. There's no improvement in 2D acceleration whatsoever.

[ 06-14-2002, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: D'Espice ]

derbs · Jun 14, 2002, 12:27 PM

wow - how much does it cost, and is it available from the apple store?

I've got a DP800 at home with a Geforce2, and a DP1gig at work with a Geforce 4, and it seems so much faster.

all_about_collaboration · Jun 14, 2002, 12:28 PM

I am also wondering if the card will help QE in Jaguar. Also, I did read some problems with the card due to lack of drivers support; a couple of posters wrote that the problems were solved in 10.1.5. Do people still have a problem with drivers?

D'Espice · Jun 14, 2002, 12:32 PM

IIRC, you need a AGP 2x 16MB (32MB for full useage) graphics card for Quartz Extreme. Technically, the GeForce 2MX is more than enough for that.
However, the GF4 might bring a slight improvement, given the drivers are better than the ones for the GF2. But that won't happen I guess.

bender · Jun 14, 2002, 12:38 PM

It's $399 at the <a href="http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/91/wo/MnZ920J5HoEQ0wv2Lk/1.3.0.3.30.8.3.8.13.0" target="_blank">Apple Store</a>. I think it's worth it if you plan to keep your machine for a few years. I'm wondering if anyone's installed one in a DP800? I'd like to know how much of a difference it makes over the GeForce2 MX.

D'Espice · Jun 14, 2002, 12:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by bender:
It's $399 at the <a href="http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/91/wo/MnZ920J5HoEQ0wv2Lk/1.3.0.3.30.8.3.8.13.0" target="_blank">Apple Store</a>. I think it's worth it if you plan to keep your machine for a few years. I'm wondering if anyone's installed one in a DP800? I'd like to know how much of a difference it makes over the GeForce2 MX.<hr /></blockquote>It makes absolutely no difference if you're not playing the latest 3D games. By doing that however, your Mac might be up to twice as fast.

milhous · Jun 14, 2002, 12:47 PM

Granted that the price isn't that great, but I think the GF4 Ti will work great with Jaguar. Furthermore, I don't understand how one could think that the QE difference between a GF2 and GF4 would only be marginal. I would assume that since the card has a heluva lot more processing power and four times more memory that it will take even less of a burden off of the CPU.

Once I decide to get another monitor for a dual monitor setup, I'll pick up the card then. But for now, I'm alright.

all_about_collaboration · Jun 14, 2002, 01:18 PM

An article at XLR8yourmac <a href="http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/geforce4_ti/geforce4_titanium_Mac.html" target="_blank">http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/geforce4_ti/geforce4_titanium_Mac.html</a> talks about 2D performance.

Commodus · Jun 14, 2002, 05:44 PM

It may be worth it for 2D, but only if you go to Jaguar and only if you really stress 2D while you're there (for example, you run a 23" Cinema HD Display or go multi-monitor). Games and 3D rendering really are the main incentives for the GF4 Ti.

That being said, if you want to run Doom 3 with full visual effects you'd need either a GF3, Radeon 8500 or GF4 Ti (as they're the ones capable of the hardware pixel shaders that Doom 3 will need for maximum detail). John Carmack at id Software noted that he expects his game to run at about 30 FPS on a G4 733 with a GF3.

gizzard · Jun 14, 2002, 09:01 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Commodus:
John Carmack at id Software noted that he expects his game to run at about 30 FPS on a G4 733 with a GF3.<hr /></blockquote>Stop spreading misinformation. John Carmack NEVER said such a thing.

D'Espice · Jun 15, 2002, 12:36 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gizzard:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Commodus:
John Carmack at id Software noted that he expects his game to run at about 30 FPS on a G4 733 with a GF3.<hr /></blockquote>Stop spreading misinformation. John Carmack NEVER said such a thing.<hr /></blockquote>You're right. What he did say infact was that it'll run at about 20 FPS on a Athlon Thunderbird 1400 with a GeForce 3 (Or somewhere around 20 FPS)

KellyHogan · Jun 16, 2002, 06:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by D'Espice:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gizzard:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Commodus:
John Carmack at id Software noted that he expects his game to run at about 30 FPS on a G4 733 with a GF3.<hr /></blockquote>Stop spreading misinformation. John Carmack NEVER said such a thing.<hr /></blockquote>You're right. What he did say infact was that it'll run at about 20 FPS on a Athlon Thunderbird 1400 with a GeForce 3 (Or somewhere around 20 FPS)<hr /></blockquote>That means even slower on a G4-733!

I saw the shots of Doom III this week. Amazing. Shockingly amazing. This game really needs only the latest systems. If you want to play it then forget the Mac because it will need a G4-933 with GF4 Ti MINIMUM. The GF4MX will not be good enough to play unless you turn off effects and run at VGA.

goatnet · Jun 16, 2002, 06:42 PM

How well does it do for Solitare or Freecell? <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" />

davidflas · Jun 19, 2002, 10:02 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:

I saw the shots of Doom III this week. Amazing. Shockingly amazing. This game really needs only the latest systems. If you want to play it then forget the Mac because it will need a G4-933 with GF4 Ti MINIMUM. The GF4MX will not be good enough to play unless you turn off effects and run at VGA.<hr /></blockquote>I just checked out those <a href="http://www.gamespy.com/e32002/pc/doom3b/screenshots.shtml" target="_blank">screen shots</a> , and they are very amazing! I wonder how my G4/466 w/Radeon 8500 will handle it. (if at all)

KellyHogan · Jun 19, 2002, 06:26 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by davidflas:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:

I saw the shots of Doom III this week. Amazing. Shockingly amazing. This game really needs only the latest systems. If you want to play it then forget the Mac because it will need a G4-933 with GF4 Ti MINIMUM. The GF4MX will not be good enough to play unless you turn off effects and run at VGA.<hr /></blockquote>I just checked out those <a href="http://www.gamespy.com/e32002/pc/doom3b/screenshots.shtml" target="_blank">screen shots</a> , and they are very amazing! I wonder how my G4/466 w/Radeon 8500 will handle it. (if at all)<hr /></blockquote>It would be slow but not a complete slug. Turn off some effects. But I have to say that your set up couldnt run Max Payne properly and Doom III is far beyond that.

gizzard · Jun 19, 2002, 09:11 PM

What are you guys never talking about? He NEVER quoted any hard numbers. I believe he said his target was 30 FPS on a GF3, or something to that effect. He didn't mention any system specs whatsoever. Also, the game has likely changed so much between now and then, that his estimates are off. I don't know where you guys get your info, obviously pull it out of your a$$...

Geez, I guess MacNN is really full of 13 and 14 year olds...

KellyHogan · Jun 20, 2002, 02:30 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gizzard:

Geez, I guess MacNN is really full of 13 and 14 year olds...<hr /></blockquote>That is 100% true. Not even a joke.