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retep · Jun 14, 2002, 10:54 AM

Check this out and tell me it's not good.

<a href="http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=4728&Item=NWTNPG4P500" target="_blank">http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=4728&Item=NWTNPG4P500</a>

Happy, happy, joy, joy!

[ 06-14-2002, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: retep ]

ddiokno · Jun 14, 2002, 11:09 AM

IMHO I think it is nice, but I would hold out for G4 with a faster clock speed, especially if your Pismo is a G3 500...
but more power to the people who do upgrade!

and realize the benefits from altivec programs they use (and OSX)
dave

Bendejo · Jun 14, 2002, 11:12 AM

I have a Pismo 500 right now. Is the jump from G3 to G4 really worth $300?

atomium · Jun 14, 2002, 11:20 AM

I have a 500, and I just can't do it. $300 just for G4? No increase in speed? Any sort of MhZ speed bump and I'll be there. Altivec alone isn't going to change my life.

Couple questions:

1) Anyone willing to speculate about power consumption with the upgrade?

2) What's the deal with processor upgrades and warranty? I have Apple Care on this guy until Dec. 2003. It's a Rev A (G3 500/12 GB) and I'm just waiting for the screen to go. Would upgrading just kill the rest of the warranty?

-atomium

retep · Jun 14, 2002, 11:31 AM

I *was* really psyched about this but now, I'm not so sure. I have a Pismo 400 and the jump to G4 500 is very tempting considering any other upgrade is out of my financial reach at the moment. Any other takers?

This upgrade wil definitely void your Applecare but it does come with a 2 year warranty of its own (doubt if it covers the whole machine though).

DNA man · Jun 14, 2002, 12:07 PM

A wee bit disappointed with the upgrade option. I have 500Mhz Pismo and I would have liked at least a 700mHz G4 to make it worth while. Can any one recal the details for the new chip. Cache size for example? is it more generous than the G3 500mhz chip?

retep · Jun 14, 2002, 12:13 PM

Here are some details: -

NuPowr� G4 Pismo

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Key Features:

* Mototola 500MHz PowerPC G4 7410 Processor
* 1MB Level 2 Backside Cache
* Velocity Engine (AltiVec) Support
* Compatible with up to 1GB of memory
* Supports Mac OS 9.1 and higher, including Mac OS X
* 2 Year Warranty

Important information about this upgrade:

This NuPowr G4/500MHz upgrade is performed on your own system by highly trained technicians at Newer Systems Technology, Inc. Upon purchase of this product, Other World Computing will ship a padded container to your address with detailed instructions on how to dispatch your system for upgrade.

Your PowerBook G3 Pismo must be in complete working condition with a fully charged battery to participate in this upgrade. You will only be shipping your PowerBook for this upgrade, with it's CD/DVD drive and one charged battery. We of course recommend that you back up any important data when shipping any computer system.

The shipping container is prepaid using Airborne Express service. Your upgraded PowerBook will be returned to you within eight to ten business days using the same shipping method.

hawksman · Jun 14, 2002, 12:48 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Check this out and tell me it's not good.<hr /></blockquote>It's not good.

No way in hell would I send them my Pismo, even if I did have a full backup of the data.

rhansen_x · Jun 14, 2002, 12:54 PM

G3 to G4 fine. But does it do anything to boost your bus speed?

Don Pickett · Jun 14, 2002, 02:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rhansen_x:
G3 to G4 fine. But does it do anything to boost your bus speed?<hr /></blockquote>Ummm, no. This is a processor upgrade. . .

I'm gonna wait on this one to see if faster chips come out. A 667 or an 800 MHZ G4 would make my little Pismo very, very happy.

Me, too.

mwmosser · Jun 14, 2002, 02:58 PM

Plus, even with the upgraded processor your Pismo G4 with its Rage 128 mobile graphics card won't be able to take advantage of Quartz Extreme in the fall.

DNA man · Jun 14, 2002, 03:37 PM

For UK Pismo owners. The Powerlogix upgrade will be available in the UK from this Monday. I was sent the information from Powerlogix via email.

Re: video card and Quartz extreme. It is true and pity that you could not upgrade video via the card slot some how. Can't this be done in some way?

finboy · Jun 14, 2002, 04:21 PM

I'm glad that we have the upgrade option - the Pismo is a great machine.

BUT I'd be wary of sending my computer to a company that just came out of bankruptcy problems (Newer). If they should close down again while your machine is there, fat chance getting it back.

Just something to consider.

[ 06-14-2002, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: finboy ]

milhous · Jun 14, 2002, 11:47 PM

Well I'll talk a 1000 megahertz Sahara G3 upgrade anyday!

Moderator · Jun 15, 2002, 03:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by finboy:
I'm glad that we have the upgrade option - the Pismo is a great machine.

BUT I'd be wary of sending my computer to a company that just came out of bankruptcy problems (Newer). If they should close down again while your machine is there, fat chance getting it back.

Just something to consider.<hr /></blockquote>I suspect that's why OWC is involved..they've been rock solid in the service department.

seanyepez · Jun 16, 2002, 01:21 AM

It�s absolutely impossible to upgrade your Pismo�s video system. It�s integrated onto the motherboard. None of today�s notebooks can take graphics chipset upgrades, but I think a Dell notebook was able to about two years ago. I believe it was the Inspiron 7500.

I think I�m going to get one of these upgrades for myself. I wonder if there�s going to be a significant heat output difference between the 500-megahertz G3 and 500-megahertz G4. The 500-megahertz TiBook was pretty hot! <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" />

Nevertheless, I would definitely feel better about having the upgrade shipped directly to me rather than having to send in my old CPU board to Powerlogix. I imagine Newer Technology was able to send customers their iMac/Wallstreet upgrades because of the sheer volume of upgrades purchased and shared CPU board design.

icruise · Jun 16, 2002, 06:09 AM

Does anyone know if there is any real difference between the Newer and the PowerLogix upgrades? They seem identical (although the Powerlogix one is supposedly $329, it is $299 for the moment).

KellyHogan · Jun 16, 2002, 07:52 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by seanyepez:
It�s absolutely impossible to upgrade your Pismo�s video system. It�s integrated onto the motherboard. None of today�s notebooks can take graphics chipset upgrades, but I think a Dell notebook was able to about two years ago. I believe it was the Inspiron 7500.
.<hr /></blockquote>I had that one. The graphics card was removable, excellent yes, but because of the size and shape of the card it wasn't like I could go into a store and buy a new one and Dell doesn't supply new cards either. The card was removable only to make it easier for Dell's technicians to remove it in case of any faults. Shame really, if all laptops had upgradable graphics that would be great for us but not great for the manufacturers. That's also why they don't want us upgrading mobile CPUs.

Kristoff · Jun 16, 2002, 04:13 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Don Pickett:


I'm gonna wait on this one to see if faster chips come out. A 667 or an 800 MHZ G4 would make my little Pismo very, very happy.

Me, too.<hr /></blockquote>Motorola never made (or never will make) the 7410 faster than 550MHz.
Later G4s have a different pinout. So, there will never be anything faster than 550 MHz G4 for the Pismo because the CPU card has an Apple proprietary chip on it, so it must be re-used in the upgrade. Therefore, you are bound to the same pinout as the 7410--or in other words...you are bound to the 7410 if you are looking for a G4. Now, I can't speak of the IBM G3's, but I suspect the same issue exists.

chingwei · Jun 16, 2002, 05:03 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kristoff:
Motorola never made (or never will make) the 7410 faster than 550MHz.
Later G4s have a different pinout. So, there will never be anything faster than 550 MHz G4 for the Pismo because the CPU card has an Apple proprietary chip on it, so it must be re-used in the upgrade. Therefore, you are bound to the same pinout as the 7410--or in other words...you are bound to the 7410 if you are looking for a G4. Now, I can't speak of the IBM G3's, but I suspect the same issue exists.<hr /></blockquote>Wow, this is great information! Can anyone confirm this technical information? I am trying to decide if I should go for the G4-500MHz now (I have a Pismo G3-400MHz), or hold out in hopes of a G4-600MHz, or 667, or higher...

If Kristoff is right about the pinouts of the 7410, and the 7410 being limited to 550MHz, that makes my decision much easier (upgrade now!)

I also wonder...if we do go ahead an send in our Pismos, and they upgrade the processor on our processor card and all that, if they later come out with a faster upgrade, will we be able to accept that upgrade, or are we screwed coz our processor card will have been all modded-out, and can't be easily re-upgraded?

My other fear is that maybe they (Powerlogix,Newer) will find out that they whole sending powerbooks back and forth in the mail is just not economical, and too few people are buying the upgrade to justify the costs, and they will simply discontinue this upgrade...that'd be scary!

Comments greatly appreciated! Can someone confirm what Kristoff said?

-Ching-Wei

chingwei · Jun 16, 2002, 05:29 PM

Hey all,

I was just thinking of more questions, to try and decide whether this upgrade is worth it, or if we should hold out for another upgrade. I just realized that the 7410 G4-500MHz does not have full-speed L2 cache. It seems to have the 1MB of "external" (still on the chip, but not integrated into the CPU core) L2 cache, i couldn't find out what speed it runs at, does anyone know this info for the 7410? 1/2 processor speed?

Anyway, the question is:

Which would be faster, a G4-500MHz with 1MB of L2 cache running at 1/2 processor speed? Or a G3-700MHz with 512kb of L2 cache running at full processor speed (as in the latest iBooks)? Has anyone done benchmarks on these?

The next question is, does anyone know if there would be technical obstacles to one of these new G3 chips with full-speed cache being installed as an upgrade for the Pismo? Pinouts, form factor, whatever technical reasons?

OK, June 17th is coming up (Powerlogix release date), I hope I can make a decision with your help!

I know there are a lot of Pismo 400 users out there who are in the same situation as me!

Thanks!
-Ching_Wei

el_humpo · Jun 16, 2002, 06:21 PM

I've got a Pismo 500, and I don't think this upgrade is worth $300.

Give me a faster (600+ MHz) G3 and I'll be happy. Less heat & power consumption is good for notebooks. I really don't know who buys those PC laptops with 1.6 GHz processors. Do they come with 'meltdown insurance'?

swiftp · Jun 17, 2002, 09:33 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DNA man:
For UK Pismo owners. The Powerlogix upgrade will be available in the UK from this Monday. I was sent the information from Powerlogix via email.

Re: video card and Quartz extreme. It is true and pity that you could not upgrade video via the card slot some how. Can't this be done in some way?<hr /></blockquote>Can you be more specific about availabity in the UK? Sending the machine to London is one thing - sending it to the USA is quite another! I would buy this if I could get the mod done locally. If you have the supplier name and procedure I would be grateful, but I'll bet it will cost �299 plus VAT - we always seem to pay more!

dialo · Jun 17, 2002, 10:36 AM

of course, if you have a pismo, esspecially a 500, you could upgrade to a ti500 for ~$300 if you are smart.

Rich Jercha · Jun 17, 2002, 12:04 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by retep:
Check this out and tell me it's not good.

<a href="http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=4728&Item=NWTNPG4P500" target="_blank">http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=4728&Item=NWTNPG4P500</a>

Happy, happy, joy, joy!

<hr /></blockquote>Hey when will they come out with a 700 or+ upgrade chip? Then it would REALLY be worth while.

Kristoff · Jun 17, 2002, 01:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by chingwei:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kristoff:
Motorola never made (or never will make) the 7410 faster than 550MHz.
Later G4s have a different pinout. So, there will never be anything faster than 550 MHz G4 for the Pismo because the CPU card has an Apple proprietary chip on it, so it must be re-used in the upgrade. Therefore, you are bound to the same pinout as the 7410--or in other words...you are bound to the 7410 if you are looking for a G4. Now, I can't speak of the IBM G3's, but I suspect the same issue exists.<hr /></blockquote>Wow, this is great information! Can anyone confirm this technical information? I am trying to decide if I should go for the G4-500MHz now (I have a Pismo G3-400MHz), or hold out in hopes of a G4-600MHz, or 667, or higher...

If Kristoff is right about the pinouts of the 7410, and the 7410 being limited to 550MHz, that makes my decision much easier (upgrade now!)

I also wonder...if we do go ahead an send in our Pismos, and they upgrade the processor on our processor card and all that, if they later come out with a faster upgrade, will we be able to accept that upgrade, or are we screwed coz our processor card will have been all modded-out, and can't be easily re-upgraded?

My other fear is that maybe they (Powerlogix,Newer) will find out that they whole sending powerbooks back and forth in the mail is just not economical, and too few people are buying the upgrade to justify the costs, and they will simply discontinue this upgrade...that'd be scary!

Comments greatly appreciated! Can someone confirm what Kristoff said?

-Ching-Wei<hr /></blockquote>IT's accurate. I used to work for Moto here in Phoenix. Trust me.
Also, if you go to their website, you can get pin diagrams for the cpus.

See <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7410EC.pdf" target="_blank">7410</a>
and
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7455EC.pdf" target="_blank">7455</a>

from page 34
This pinout is not compatible with the MPC750, MPC7400, or
MPC7410 360 BGA package.

As my history here shows, I don't talk out of my ass.
If I don't know..I don't post.
If I am wrong...I readily admit it, but this is an odd occurance because of the prior point.

Besides, I really want a faster one too, but I guess 550 is all we'll ever get.

Also, Powerlogix is going to announce upgrades, but I think they will only require sending in the CPU card, not the whole computer.

[ 06-17-2002, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Kristoff ]

Kristoff · Jun 17, 2002, 01:24 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Rich Jercha:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by retep:
Check this out and tell me it's not good.

<a href="http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=4728&Item=NWTNPG4P500" target="_blank">http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=4728&Item=NWTNPG4P500</a>

Happy, happy, joy, joy!

<hr /></blockquote>Hey when will they come out with a 700 or+ upgrade chip? Then it would REALLY be worth while.<hr /></blockquote>Dude....try reading the thread before replying.
The answer is here...somewhere.

chingwei · Jun 17, 2002, 10:03 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kristoff:
IT's accurate. I used to work for Moto here in Phoenix. Trust me.
Also, if you go to their website, you can get pin diagrams for the cpus.

See <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7410EC.pdf" target="_blank">7410</a>
and
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7455EC.pdf" target="_blank">7455</a>

from page 34
This pinout is not compatible with the MPC750, MPC7400, or
MPC7410 360 BGA package.

As my history here shows, I don't talk out of my ass.
If I don't know..I don't post.
If I am wrong...I readily admit it, but this is an odd occurance because of the prior point.

Besides, I really want a faster one too, but I guess 550 is all we'll ever get.

Also, Powerlogix is going to announce upgrades, but I think they will only require sending in the CPU card, not the whole computer.<hr /></blockquote>Hi Kristoff,

Please accept my apologies, I hope it did not seem that I didn't believe you. I just wanted a confirmation. Now that I know you worked at Moto, I believe everything you say.

Given that, it's now a matter of curiosity: Is the 7410 pin-compatible with the 750 (G3)?

I'm just a little more curious, because I remember them saying recently that it would be impossible to make a Pismo CPU upgrade, because of some Apple proprietary chip on the daughtercard (something like that, do you know what I'm talking about?). But then they somehow found a way to do it anyway!

And my understanding was that they would be doing some major hack-job to the CPU card, I was envisioning some hard core hand-soldering or something, and in that case, maybe they would be able to work around any pin-out issues, since they were really going to gut it anyway.

Anyways, I really do appreciate the knowledge you've shared here, it has definitely pushed me in the direction of going for the upgrade now...

Would love to hear about your comments on my questions above.

Thanks!
-Ching-Wei

chingwei · Jun 18, 2002, 07:45 PM

Last question, I promise, for those who know (Kristoff?):

Is the 750cx(e) (The new G3's in the new iBooks, with the integrated full-speed L2 cache, 256kB and 512kB now) pin compatible with the 750 (The G3 in the Pismo to begin with.)???

The real question is, is it conceivable that they will come up with a 700MHz G3 upgrade for my Pismo? Or is the G4-500MHz (7410) all I will ever get?

Thanks!
-Ching-Wei