[Sourbook]

Today is a sad day for american cycling.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Sourbook

Today is a sad day for cycling.

fixed.

[analogika]

And actually, a correction: Landis' championship title hasn't officially been revoked (yet).

[Sourbook]

Originally Posted by analogika

fixed.

You're right. Thank you.

[paul w]

Bad year for the feel good stories. First Zidane, now Landis. What's next - Tiger Woods turns out to be a robot?

[Buckaroo]

Does anyone know if it was possible for someone to spike Landis's food, drinks or the medicine shots he got for pain without him knowing it?

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

Does anyone know if it was possible for someone to spike Landis's food, drinks or the medicine shots he got for pain without him knowing it?

Or his toothpaste. That's an excuse that had been tried before. It doesn't count.

[Albert Pujols]

Originally Posted by analogika

And actually, a correction: Landis' championship title hasn't officially been revoked (yet).

Tour de France race director Christian Prudhomme has already said Landis can no longer be considered the winner.

This whole thing is pretty sad. No doubt the most controversial Tour ever.

[BRussell]

Question: He had elevated testosterone levels on that day he made the come-back, right? I've heard his ride that day called one of the greatest in the history of the Tour. Would some drug or supplement really have that kind of an effect? It seems like such a temporary, one-day thing, and he didn't have elevated testosterone on the other days.

[yakkiebah]

I'm wondering. What good does testosterone do for an endurance sport?

[FulcrumPilot]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

I'm wondering. What good does testosterone do for an endurance sport?

I think it helps build muscle mass and its good for grunts.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Question: He had elevated testosterone levels on that day he made the come-back, right? I've heard his ride that day called one of the greatest in the history of the Tour. Would some drug or supplement really have that kind of an effect?

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testost...ne_in_athletes

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

I'm wondering. What good does testosterone do for an endurance sport?

Probably shorter recovey timem would be the most immediate effect of elevated level of testosterone.

[Troll]

Apparently the high level of testosterone could also be a residue from other drugs taken or even residue from a blood transfusion. Landis said that his body naturally produces high levels of testosterone. That was before he knew that the testosterone found in his body is synthetic. Mammals can't produce that kind of testosterone so Landis would have to be a plant for the excuse to stick. Now he says he will contest both the finding of testosterone and the test that separates synthetic testosterone.

As Greg Lemond said, what the sport really needs is a bit of honesty. It will damage the sport if this affair is dragged out over months just to prove that he really was doped. I hope Landis has a good think about what he's doing before he mounts a huge legal challenge here. Apologising to the kids and fans of cycling like Zidane did, would be the classy way to take this forward.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Troll

Mammals can't produce that kind of testosterone so Landis would have to be a plant for the excuse to stick.

hmmmm the plot thickens...

[Ω]

I myself am glad this is happening. I love watching the TdF, and enjoyed the battle that occurred this year.

To see that no one is safe from suspicion is a positive step to making the sport of cycling a respected discipline again.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Nicko

hmmmm the plot thickens...

Yeah, Floyd Landis posing with his bicycle after winning the Tour de Farce:

[dreamryche]

IMO, doping is so prevalent in cycling that it doesn't give the racers a leg up, it just keeps them with all the other dopers. Call me cynical, but I think the entire pro peloton is on the juice.

As for Floyd... it's known that he hit the bottle hard after he bonked in Stage 16. Alcohol throws off T-to-E ratios. I'd bet that his night of hard drinking skewered his dialed-in T-to-E ratio of just under the 4:1 limit.

Finally, if they want to get serious about cleaning up cycling, they need to hand out some serious penalties. No two-year bans...think lifetime bans. In addition, fine and suspend the teams. Make them really hurt. Then, just maybe, we'll see a cleaner peloton.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by dreamryche

IMO, doping is so prevalent in cycling that it doesn't give the racers a leg up, it just keeps them with all the other dopers. Call me cynical, but I think the entire pro peloton is on the juice.

When Floyd was on the juice, he went 6 minutes ahead of the peloton, so clearly it does help.

Originally Posted by dreamryche

As for Floyd... it's known that he hit the bottle hard after he bonked in Stage 16. Alcohol throws off T-to-E ratios. I'd bet that his night of hard drinking skewered his dialed-in T-to-E ratio of just under the 4:1 limit.

He didn't hit the bottle hard. He had 1 beer. His level was 12:1 and it was synthetic testosterone. According to the experts, mammals can't produce testosterone so unless the beer was spiked, there's no way it could be a result of the beer drinking.

Originally Posted by dreamryche

Finally, if they want to get serious about cleaning up cycling, they need to hand out some serious penalties. No two-year bans...think lifetime bans.

I agree. In all sports, they need to start banning the guys for life.

[Troll]

This is becoming a soap opera. If the guy isn't guilty, how come his team resorts to this kind of thing?

Los Angeles - The Floyd Landis doping hearing took an ugly turn on Thursday when Greg LeMond revealed he was sexually abused as a child and claimed a friend of Landis used that to intimidate him before he testified.

Three-time Tour de France champion LeMond was called as a witness by the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA), which is prosecuting the case against 2006 Tour winner Landis, whose urine sample after stage 17 of last year's Tour tested positive for synthetic testosterone.

LeMond said he received an anonymous phone call on Wednesday evening that came from a number that he traced to the phone of Landis's friend and manager, Will Geoghegan.

"I think he didn't want me coming here," LeMond told reporters as he left the Pepperdine University Law School building after testifying before a panel of three arbitrators.

LeMond was asked by USADA lawyer Matthew Barnett about a phone call he received from Landis last August 6 after news of the positive result of Landis's 'A' sample had been leaked to the media.

Landis, who has denied cheating, confronted LeMond about remarks made to reporters. LeMond said he was careful not to accuse Landis but urged him to "come clean" if the charge was true.

"His response was: 'What good would it do,'" LeMond said. "He said he didn't see that anything good would come out of this.

"'If I did, it would destroy a lot of friends and a lot of people,'" LeMond said Landis told him.

LeMond said that, as a warning against the corrosive power of keeping such a secret, he shared with Landis the fact that he (LeMond) had been sexually abused in his youth and that keeping that secret "nearly destroyed me."

"I shared this with him with the idea that he might see what keeping a secret would do," LeMond said.

LeMond then testified that he was "very upset" when on Wednesday night the anonymous caller told him, "Greg, this is your uncle... I'll be there tomorrow and we can talk about how we used to 'Hide your weenie.'"

"I got the picture right away," LeMond said. "I figured this was an effort at intimidation."

LeMond later said that Geoghegan, who was sitting with other Landis supporters behind the defence team's table in the small courtroom housing the hearing, "admitted that he called me and tried to apologise."

Maurice Suh, lead lawyer for Landis, immediately moved to distance the cyclist from the affair.

Speaking for the record after LeMond left the witness stand, Suh told the arbitrators that as of that moment, any business relationship between Landis and Geoghegan was terminated.

"He had served in the capacity as business manager at times prior to today," Suh said. "I'm still not sure exactly what the status was as of the last minute, but we have decided to terminate all business relationships between Mr Landis and Mr Geoghegan as of today, as of right now."

http://www.news24.com/News24/Sport/M...115210,00.html

[analogika]

Just ban them all and give the Tour to the amateurs already.

[Troll]

So, Landis lost his appeal to the USDA. That settles it then, I guess. That performance in the mountains WAS too good to be true. How vehemently he defended himself!

BBC SPORT | Other Sport... | Cycling | Landis loses appeal against ban

[OldManMac]

I still think he's innocent.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

I still think he's innocent.

Why do you think that? I only remember some of the excuses he came up with but they've all been unconvincing:

1) It was alcohol; I was drinking - No actually it was testosterone.
2) Okay, it was testosterone, but I produce lots of testosterone naturally - You agree that you're a mammal though, right?
3) Okay so no mammal can produce synthetic testosterone, but there's the B sample. - It's positive too.
4) But, but, the French hate me - Okay, let's get a US lab to test it.
5) Okay so that was positive too but procedures weren't followed ...

In the end, that was all he was left with - a procedural argument. The guy performs a superhuman feat on the same day that he happens to test positive. I personally have no doubt there was something in his system that permitted that superhuman feat and the way the rules work, that makes him guilty.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

I still think he's innocent.

Only if you believe that "Everybody does it!" absolves one of guilt.

Did you not follow the whole implosion of the Tour de France circus this year?

[Mithras]

Does testosterone work like that, though, with short-acting effects? I thought it was more of a long-term thing.

Also: You guys see this Onion piece a while ago? Just great:
Non-Doping Cyclists Finish Tour De France | The Onion - America's Finest News Source