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RAILhead
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Mar 23, 2008, 03:58 PM
 
That was Ben.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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andi*pandi
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Mar 23, 2008, 06:58 PM
 
Jacob.
     
lavar78
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Mar 23, 2008, 07:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
That was Ben.
What was Ben?

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OwlBoy
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Mar 23, 2008, 07:17 PM
 
omg, 32 days till a new ep?
     
RAILhead
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Mar 23, 2008, 07:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by lavar78 View Post
What was Ben?
Ben using the island to communicate and generate the "phantoms."
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Peter
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Mar 23, 2008, 08:49 PM
 
my patience is waning with lost. Kinda wish I'd never watched it. Watching it because I feel obligated to sucks.
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lavar78
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Mar 23, 2008, 09:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
Ben using the island to communicate and generate the "phantoms."
I could buy that for the others, but not for Walt. Ben shot Locke and left him for dead, so I seriously doubt he'd send a vision of Walt to convince him to get up and get to work.

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RAILhead
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Mar 23, 2008, 09:51 PM
 
You read too much into what I said. Ben's just able to utilize the island's power -- but he's not the only one able to.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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lavar78
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Mar 24, 2008, 02:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
You read too much into what I said. Ben's just able to utilize the island's power -- but he's not the only one able to.
Oh, OK. I agree with that.

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Ghoser777
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Apr 24, 2008, 10:48 PM
 
Man... do I actually feel bad for Ben? Weird...
     
design219  (op)
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Apr 24, 2008, 11:00 PM
 
Holy ****!
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Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 24, 2008, 11:06 PM
 
That may well be my favorite episode of the series. The season, by far.
     
design219  (op)
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Apr 24, 2008, 11:09 PM
 
So Ben can't kill Charles. And Michael can't kill himself. But people are killed on the island. WTF?
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Apr 24, 2008, 11:12 PM
 
Maybe Charles is Ben's constant.
     
design219  (op)
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Apr 24, 2008, 11:29 PM
 
So if Ben controls the smoke, why did he kill Mr. Eko?
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scottiB
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Apr 24, 2008, 11:37 PM
 
I'm tired of Ben. The original cast is being reduced to trees with shocked expressions and patsies. This show is becoming the world's largest ball of string: I'll go and see it briefly if I'm in the neighborhood, and return to the car thinking what the hell possessed them to think it was a good idea to make it.
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Apr 25, 2008, 01:28 AM
 
Whoa, monsta.
     
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Apr 25, 2008, 02:35 AM
 
Did not see that coming. Any of that.

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lavar78
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Apr 25, 2008, 06:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by scottiB View Post
I'm tired of Ben. The original cast is being reduced to trees with shocked expressions and patsies.
With the notable exceptions of Sayid, Locke, and Desmond (who isn't even an original), Ben is way more interesting than the original cast members IMO.

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Apr 25, 2008, 07:19 AM
 
AWESOME episode IMHO. The smoke was freaking SWEET.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 25, 2008, 08:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by lavar78 View Post
With the notable exceptions of Sayid, Locke, and Desmond (who isn't even an original), Ben is way more interesting than the original cast members IMO.
His levels of sarcasm and dryness I can only hope to one day hit.
     
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Apr 25, 2008, 08:27 AM
 
I thought it was hilarious that Ben had a shotgun hidden the whole time. The look on Sawyer's face was priceless when he saw it.
     
scottiB
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Apr 25, 2008, 10:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by lavar78 View Post
With the notable exceptions of Sayid, Locke, and Desmond (who isn't even an original), Ben is way more interesting than the original cast members IMO.
I don't disagree, but TPTB let him become that. This is a character that was introduced 38 episodes in, and now, 40 episodes later, he's the (apparently omnipotent) protagonist of the series with the Oceanic 6--and everyone else--chess pieces in his battle royale against Charles Widmore--a character that wasn't introduced until 47 episodes into the series.

The series is devolved into a Ben ex Machina.

Don't mean to digress this into an essay on character introduction and narrative structure; I have an hour commute into work, and I was stewing about it.
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RAILhead
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Apr 25, 2008, 10:46 AM
 
I disagree. I have always felt -- from the very beginning of the show -- that the Island and its story is the central character/theme. The Losties et al are just an interruption to the telling of the story, and as more unfolds, we're seeing more about the island, etc., as we learn about its back-story pertaining to Ben and Widmore.

It's always been about the island to me, and to tell its story, we have to have all the other stuff.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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scottiB
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Apr 25, 2008, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
I disagree. I have always felt -- from the very beginning of the show -- that the Island and its story is the central character/theme.
I agree, but I'd like to see the secrets of the island unveiled through others' eyes.

My issue, apparently, is with Ben's character. First he's Jack's antagonist; then, he's Locke's antagonist. He's pissed that Widmore hasn't followed rules, but what rules has he followed? He manipulates, lies, and murders, yet he's upset when his daughter is murdered (whom he kidnapped as a baby).

Ben is so manipulative that it's tough to see what he really cares about. I couldn't tell if he was sincerely upset about Alex, because he speaks in absolutes constantly.

I love the show, but the Benphasis is a bit too much.
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Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 25, 2008, 11:50 AM
 
They've done a competent job obfuscating whether Ben is good or evil this season. If the show is good, we may end up worshipping Ben as a hero at the end. But I think chances are he'll just be a scheming, manipulative version of Locke, a nutter with good intentions and really poor actions (given the insight into his past this seems really likely).
( Last edited by Dakar the Fourth; Apr 25, 2008 at 11:57 AM. )
     
RAILhead
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Apr 25, 2008, 11:53 AM
 
I believe the rules were that they wouldn't kill one another's people -- or family, at least.

I'm also not entirely sure I believe the bit about Alex not being his biological daughter -- but we'll see.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 25, 2008, 11:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
I'm also not entirely sure I believe the bit about Alex not being his biological daughter -- but we'll see.
I dunno, I never thought she was all along. We knew she was Russo's in the first season, and I thought Russo claimed it was hers wih=th another one of the researchers.

Given the Others penchant for stealing kids it seemed perfectly logical for Alex not to be his.
     
design219  (op)
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Apr 25, 2008, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth View Post
good or evil
That is one think I really appreciate about this show. Just about every character has been shown to have had a bit of a dark side at some point or other in their past. I think we have seen all we will see of the characters history, but who knows.
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design219  (op)
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Apr 25, 2008, 08:33 PM
 
I just re-watched this episode and noticed a few interesting things.

1. When Ben appeared in the Sahara, he was shivering and had on a fur-lined parka. Are we getting closer to understanding the polar bears?

2. Ben uses a Nikon D100, even thought the name was obscured.

3. The door behind Ben's closet wall is not Dharma issue. It looked ancient and stone. Maybe made by the people who carved the four toed statue?

4. Claire is still hot.
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RAILhead
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Apr 25, 2008, 09:10 PM
 
There's noting to understand about the polar bears.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Peter
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Apr 26, 2008, 07:09 AM
 
really amazing episode. Best one of the season, and probably one of my most favourite episodes yet.
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lavar78
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Apr 26, 2008, 07:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
There's noting to understand about the polar bears.
... except the remains found in the desert. Ben's appearance there this episode bolsters my theory that teleportation or some kind of time/space warp is in play.

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Peter
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Apr 26, 2008, 09:30 AM
 
and he asked at the hotel what the year was ....
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RAILhead
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Apr 26, 2008, 10:17 AM
 
Right, that's it. The polar bears arrived the same way Ben did, but there's nothing special about the polar bears themselves. That means of traveling is how one turned-up in the desert.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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design219  (op)
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Apr 26, 2008, 12:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
The polar bears arrived the same way Ben did
I must have missed that, when did anybody say that?
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RAILhead
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Apr 26, 2008, 01:13 PM
 
You'll see...
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Gankdawg
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Apr 26, 2008, 11:29 PM
 
Any significance to Sawyer and Hurley playing Risk (The game of world domination)?

And the rules? What is the game? Ben and Charles fighting for world domination? Or at least acquiring the island.

And the hottie was killed. Maybe. She's 18 now, right?
     
design219  (op)
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May 1, 2008, 11:06 PM
 
Not a particularly interesting episode, compared to recent, but the preview for next week looks very interesting. I'm looking forward to hearing what the dead Dharma dude has to say.
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Ghoser777
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May 1, 2008, 11:19 PM
 
Very bizarre episode. Seemed like just a bridge to another episode. I'm beginning to think that the flash forward at the end of season three will be the starting point of season five.
     
RAILhead
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May 1, 2008, 11:22 PM
 
You are correct about that, from what I've heard.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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lavar78
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May 2, 2008, 05:45 AM
 
This one was fine, but not up to the level of the rest of the season, which is fine every now and then. Despite my four favorite characters getting zero screen time, I thought it was interesting. They hinted (but just stopped short of confirming) what we thought -- Jack knows that he's Aaron's uncle. We also found out that Sawyer chose to stay on the island. Most importantly, more Christian sightings!

I'm going to miss Danielle.

As much I've loved the last few episodes, I'm really looking forward to seeing Desmond and Sayid again.

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RAILhead
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May 2, 2008, 07:06 AM
 
Yeah, we now know part of...

Why Jack got hooked on pills and booze
How Sun got off the island
Sawyer chose to stay (for Claire, probably)
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Chuckit
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May 2, 2008, 10:23 AM
 
Lame episode. I'm not a preteen girl and I don't particularly care to watch Jack and Kate play house. Also, I'm pissed that Keamy somehow survived while Alex didn't — their relative hotness factors should have made this a no-brainer (no pun intended, Alex ).
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Dakar the Fourth
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May 2, 2008, 10:27 AM
 
I knew it'd be a dud. It's just setting up everything for the big finish this season.
     
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May 2, 2008, 10:49 AM
 
I think the islands greatest power is giving Sun such a perfect American accent.
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xi_hyperon
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May 2, 2008, 06:38 PM
 
Definitely a bridging episode, which I guess is a necessary evil now and then.

I really wish that ugly military s.o.b. would die. His cold-blooded execution of Alex is enough to warrant that in my book.
     
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May 2, 2008, 07:35 PM
 
Shall we go back to the old "Things on this island don't stay buried" thing?

I personally think that Ben is dead, as it seems to allow for the strange teleportation/time traveling that Ben seems so good at.
     
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May 2, 2008, 09:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by xi_hyperon View Post
Definitely a bridging episode, which I guess is a necessary evil now and then.

I really wish that ugly military s.o.b. would die. His cold-blooded execution of Alex is enough to warrant that in my book.
Don't worry. He's gonna die. He's been killed in every movie I've ever seen him in. That's his typecast: annoying bad@$$ that gets busted up.
     
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May 2, 2008, 09:51 PM
 
He didn't die in Wild Hogs, but nobody died in Wild Hogs. He was an annoying bad@ass that got busted up though.
     
 
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