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starman · Mar 25, 2009, 08:38 AM

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-...d&subj=Webware

HUGE. Without logs, there's no way to track anything.

mattyb · Mar 25, 2009, 09:25 AM

Couldn't they just see the IP addresses of peers? I suppose that means that they were committing a crime to see others committing a crime though doesn't it?

nonhuman · Mar 25, 2009, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by mattyb

Couldn't they just see the IP addresses of peers? I suppose that means that they were committing a crime to see others committing a crime though doesn't it?

They would see the internal IP address on the VPN, not an IP address that would actually lead to the users ISP and therefore (possibly) identity. It's like how the computers on your home network have IP addresses in the 192.168.*.* or 10.0.*.* range; they're useless to anyone not on the same network.

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 09:54 AM

Great. I can upload some of my stuff then sue the ass off TPB for distributing it - since it's being distributed from TPB IP addresses, not punters' IPs.

Maflynn · Mar 25, 2009, 10:04 AM

Aren't they being tried for piracy and/or have been shut down by their respective government?

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Aren't they being tried for piracy and/or have been shut down by their respective government?

Verdict due in a few weeks.

moep · Mar 25, 2009, 10:11 AM

#1 I know about IPRED, but calling that service IPREDator is just...

Might as well call it iKiddyToucher.
#2 What are the payment options? Not logging IPs is great and all but not exactly useful when they have your CC/Paypal information linked to your account.
#3 Did anyone else notice that it is set to launch on April 1st?

jokell82 · Mar 25, 2009, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Great. I can upload some of my stuff then sue the ass off TPB for distributing it - since it's being distributed from TPB IP addresses, not punters' IPs.

The VPN system is wholly separate from the torrent tracker. So one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

The VPN system is wholly separate from the torrent tracker. So one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Still, should be easy to sue the VPN company (and their parent company) for illegally distributing my stuff.

Person Man · Mar 25, 2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by moep

#3 Did anyone else notice that it is set to launch on April 1st?

Yes. It coincides with the day the new law takes effect in Sweden.

jokell82 · Mar 25, 2009, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Still, should be easy to sue the VPN company (and their parent company) for illegally distributing my stuff.

Do you know how a VPN works? The "VPN company" does no distribution at all.

In your scenario, you should be able to sue any node computer that P2P packets pass through to get to the pirating user. Makes no sense.

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Do you know how a VPN works? The "VPN company" does no distribution at all.

Other than the data originating from the IP addresses which are registered to it, you mean? Why do you think ISPs have AUPs?

jokell82 · Mar 25, 2009, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Other than the data originating from the IP addresses which are registered to it, you mean? Why do you think ISPs have AUPs?

I mean that the VPN company is neither hosting nor serving any of your copyrighted material. If one of their users chooses to pirate your material that is not the fault of the VPN, and your want to sue them makes no sense.

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

I mean that the VPN company is neither hosting nor serving any of your copyrighted material. If one of their users chooses to pirate your material that is not the fault of the VPN, and your want to sue them makes no sense.

In order to prove that it wasn't a member of the VPN provider's staff pirating my stuff from their office, they'd have to prove that the IP addy in question was being used by a customer. Which, since they're not having logging, they won't be able to do.

jokell82 · Mar 25, 2009, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

In order to prove that it wasn't a member of the VPN provider's staff pirating my stuff from their office, they'd have to prove that the IP addy in question was being used by a customer. Which, since they're not having logging, they won't be able to do.

Which member of their staff? Oh you don't know? Then who do you sue? All you would know is that *someone* pirated your stuff, but without any knowledge of who you'd have no recourse to sue anyone.

You could try, but you'd only be wasting your money.

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Which member of their staff? Oh you don't know? Then who do you sue? All you would know is that *someone* pirated your stuff, but without any knowledge of who you'd have no recourse to sue anyone.

It's the responsibility of the company to ensure that piracy doesn't take place over their lines. Thus, the company is in the crosshairs for not blocking P2P traffic.

jokell82 · Mar 25, 2009, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

It's the responsibility of the company to ensure that piracy doesn't take place over their lines. Thus, the company is in the crosshairs for not blocking P2P traffic.

Actually it's not. That's why you can't sue an ISP over the same thing.

Chuckit · Mar 25, 2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

It's the responsibility of the company to ensure that piracy doesn't take place over their lines. Thus, the company is in the crosshairs for not blocking P2P traffic.

I think you've lived in England too long.

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Actually it's not. That's why you can't sue an ISP over the same thing.

How long have you been practising European law then?

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I think you've lived in England too long.

Dakar V · Mar 25, 2009, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

European law

Wow, like this couldn't have been clarified at the beginning of the conversation.

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Wow, like this couldn't have been clarified at the beginning of the conversation.

Strange, ain't it, that one European entity going at it with another European entity has bugger all to do with US law. Most peculiar.

Dakar V · Mar 25, 2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Strange, ain't it, that one European entity going at it with another European entity has bugger all to do with US law. Most peculiar.

Not as strange as having a protracted conversation you know is pointless.

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Not as strange as having a protracted conversation you know is pointless.

Hmmm. Good point there.

Dakar V · Mar 25, 2009, 01:28 PM

Serious question: Have any of the European ISPs been sued for "not blocking P2P traffic" as you put it? If they haven't do you care to venture a guess why that is?

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Serious question: Have any of the European ISPs been sued for "not blocking P2P traffic" as you put it? If they haven't do you care to venture a guess why that is?

Not to my knowledge. But then they're required by law to keep logs of all customers' communications.
But this company ain't an ISP - they're a VPN provider. VPN providers are generally responsible for whatever comes out of their pipes unless they can pinpoint where that stuff originated from.

Interestingly, there's a case in Australia starting today where an ISP is being sued for allowing customers to use P2P.
http://torrentfreak.com/isp-refuses-...irates-090325/

Chuckit · Mar 25, 2009, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Wow, like this couldn't have been clarified at the beginning of the conversation.

I thought it was pretty well-known that The Pirate Bay was Swedish.

sek929 · Mar 25, 2009, 01:54 PM

TPB holds the record for longest trial in Sweden's history.

Dakar V · Mar 25, 2009, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I thought it was pretty well-known that The Pirate Bay was Swedish.

I'm talking that jokell was arguing a American law POV with Doofy, an englishman.

Dakar V · Mar 25, 2009, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Not to my knowledge. But then they're required by law to keep logs of all customers' communications.
But this company ain't an ISP - they're a VPN provider. VPN providers are generally responsible for whatever comes out of their pipes unless they can pinpoint where that stuff originated from.

Interestingly, there's a case in Australia starting today where an ISP is being sued for allowing customers to use P2P.
http://torrentfreak.com/isp-refuses-...irates-090325/

If you're positing that a VPN would be easier to sue than an ISP, I'd have to agree if only because of sheer size.