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Amazon's Kindle (Page 3)
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MacosNerd
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Nov 20, 2007, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Really? When was the last time you needed batteries to read a book?
sure you do when you want to use one of these puppies

     
nonhuman
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Nov 20, 2007, 02:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Really? When was the last time you needed batteries to read a book?
What the hell are you talking about? How is that even relevant? When's the last time you didn't need batteries to listen to music?

We all understand that eBook readers require power. We accept that. We think that in many situations the benefits still outweigh the disadvantages.

Those benefits being largely that eBooks save a lot of space and weight. In case you weren't paying attention, many of us who are supporting eBooks are saying that we read a lot of books. In particular, we do so when we travel. Currently, whenever I travel I usually have to deal with at least 4 books. Those take up a lot of space and weight. Also, since I tend to forget/not have time to go to a real bookstore, I end up having to get whatever crappy books I can find at the airport. With a Kindle, I have a much larger selection of books that are available to me at pretty much any time. I can have as many books as I could possibly want for a trip, without having to worry about lugging them around.

This device has the potential to make certain aspects of my life significantly more convenient. Hence I am interested in it and excited to see the direction that this device and eBooks in general will go in the future.
     
Mastrap
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Nov 20, 2007, 02:39 PM
 
Pro:
Library in a box. That's extremely appealing.
Wireless connectivity.

Against:
Closed system.
Expensive.
Some bizarre content managing decisions re blogs etc.
Bad industrial design , IMO.
A whole lot of other gremlins.

However, this is incarnation 1.0. Things will get better, subsequent releases will be cheaper and more useful. I think that in a couple of years many people will own one of these, myself included. I am certain that I'd still be buying paper books, new and used, but I can see this becoming a really useful tool for travelling and research.
     
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Nov 20, 2007, 02:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
You seem too since I think you're the only one getting upset about this and what is being posted. I myself have enjoyed the debate and the give and take.
Wat?
     
starman
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Nov 20, 2007, 03:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
What the hell are you talking about? How is that even relevant? When's the last time you didn't need batteries to listen to music?
Your analogy is poor because apart from a live acoustic perfomance, you ALWAYS need power to listen to music. With books you never did. Sunlight and ambient light work quite well.

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Nov 20, 2007, 03:51 PM
 
I'm totally blinded by all of the ambient light available at 1AM.
     
nonhuman
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Nov 20, 2007, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Your analogy is poor because apart from a live acoustic perfomance, you ALWAYS need power to listen to music. With books you never did. Sunlight and ambient light work quite well.
That's actually not true, you can listen to LPs just fine with no power.

But I agree with you that this is a drawback to eBook readers. However I don't think it's much of one. If you want to read, you need light. During the day you've got the sun, which could also just as easily power an eBook reader. At night you've got electric lights, which means you've got electricity to power your eBook reader.

The power requirements of an eBook reader that uses an eInk screen are extremely low. Ignoring the radio transmitter, it only needs power to retrieve data from memory and draw the screen. Once the screen has been drawn it needs no power to maintain that state. According to Amazon, with the EVDO system turned off (which it does automatically when you're outside the coverage area) the battery will last up to a week. I don't see that this is much of a limitation on the usefulness of the device.
     
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Nov 20, 2007, 03:54 PM
 
I can see it now: cow farts and the Amazon's Kindle will bring Mutha Earf to her KNEES and civilization will burn in the flames of our irresponsibility.

Way to go, Jeff.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Nov 20, 2007, 04:11 PM
 
I think if someone wants to sell an ebook device that will fly off the shelves, they should keep it simple (no WiFi, no audio). Just sell it preloaded with as many public domain works as possible, so it's useable right off the shelf. The classics, the Bible, and every Dickens, Twain, Shakespeare, Tolstoy, etc. Then have a website to sell new works.

Frankly, I'm surprised Apple isn't already doing this.
     
RAILhead
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Nov 20, 2007, 04:18 PM
 
I would LOVE to see Apple's response to this, but my fear would be that it would be iTunes crippled as far as volume goes. Of course, I suppose they could get the same content as Amazon -- but selection would be my main concern.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Nov 21, 2007, 02:46 PM
 
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
Shaddim
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Feb 18, 2008, 11:55 PM
 
Well, my wife wants one of these. Who else has one, and what do you think? How's the service?
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design219
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Feb 19, 2008, 08:50 AM
 
What happened to shifuiman?

(and yes, I want one, but when the price drops this summer. (the kindle, not a shifuiman)
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Feb 19, 2008, 09:18 AM
 
She got tired of some of the antics directed towards her, and gave up on this place
     
PlacidTubs
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Feb 19, 2008, 09:45 AM
 
This product is more of a nod to the future rather than a great product in its own right. When the technology gets better, I can see these being massively popular. It isn't a niche thing either; I would imagine that when the price of these kinds of devices drop (which they inevitably will), that pretty much every student would want one. What student wouldn't see the convenience of being able to easily take every book on a module's reading list to every seminar and lecture, especially if you take powerful search features into account.

Sure it won't be as popular as the iPod, as more people listen to music than read, but that doesn't mean that a product like this won't one day be everywhere.
     
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Feb 19, 2008, 09:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
She got tired of some of the antics directed towards her, and gave up on this place
We need custom locks for banned by request. Locks with smiley faces or something.
     
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Feb 19, 2008, 10:11 AM
 
I wish it'd come out in the UK
we don't have time to stop for gas
     
Laminar
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Feb 19, 2008, 02:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
She got tired of some of the antics directed towards her, and gave up on this place
Did she tell you that, or are you just assuming?
     
MacosNerd
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Feb 19, 2008, 02:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Did she tell you that, or are you just assuming?
I'm basing my post from a thread in the feedback forum a while ago and how some people treated her.
     
RAILhead
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Feb 19, 2008, 02:08 PM
 
Yes, that's why she left.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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design219
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Feb 19, 2008, 04:48 PM
 
Too bad.

You bunch of bullies!
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Shaddim
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Feb 19, 2008, 04:57 PM
 
She was weak, on MacNN only the strong survive!


Now, so what you guys are saying is Kindle is a neat idea but isn't living up to it's potential? She wants it to lessen her daily carry load. Just put the books that she'll need on the Kindle, toss it in her bag, and off she goes.

Also, the pricing structure looks pretty good for retail ebooks, and the SD slot for added storage is nice. I figure we just plug a 4 or 8GB chip in there and forget about it.
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Mrjinglesusa
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Feb 19, 2008, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Well, my wife wants one of these. Who else has one, and what do you think? How's the service?
I love mine. I only bought a couple of books so far but they downloaded in less than a minute from my home wireless network. Reading the screen is fantastic and very easy on the eyes. However, you do need light - it's not backlit. Navigation is really easy and the software is very intuitive. All in all, a nice gift my father-in-law thought of.
     
Shaddim
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Feb 19, 2008, 05:35 PM
 
I was under the impression it uses the Sprint EVDO network for wireless, not 802.11.
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- Thomas Paine
     
Mrjinglesusa
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Feb 19, 2008, 06:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I was under the impression it uses the Sprint EVDO network for wireless, not 802.11.
That may be so. All I know is that it took less than a minute to DL a 300 page book. I didn't pay much attention to what I was connected to.
     
Laminar
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Feb 19, 2008, 07:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
I'm basing my post from a thread in the feedback forum a while ago and how some people treated her.
Well I talked to her, and that's not it.
     
design219
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Feb 19, 2008, 08:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Well I talked to her, and that's not it.
Oh, so it's your fault.
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Feb 20, 2008, 08:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Well I talked to her, and that's not it.
That's what she told me. Well, it was really based on a certain person -- but if I say the name I get reportedededed.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
my bandmy web sitemy guitar effectsmy photosfacebookbrightpoint
     
Railroader
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Feb 20, 2008, 09:45 AM
 
Kindle still sold out.

Looks like they can not keep up

Own one I still want

-Yoda
( Last edited by Railroader; Feb 20, 2008 at 05:23 PM. Reason: :D - starman)
     
starman
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Feb 20, 2008, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Kindle-still sold out.

Looks like they can't keep up with demand.

I want one.
Is that an attempt at a haiku?

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MacosNerd
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Feb 20, 2008, 08:45 PM
 
I saw someone using one on the subway this evening. The text looked pretty readable but holding and using it looked awkward at least doing so on a moving train. Most people whip out a book and start reading w/o any issues regardless of it being a small paperback or a larger hard cover. This seemed a little difficult to handle while on the train.
     
Laminar
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Feb 20, 2008, 08:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
That's what she told me. Well, it was really based on a certain person -- but if I say the name I get reportedededed.
I got the same answer as you. I'm just assuming that Macosnerd is thinking of the wrong antics.
     
starman
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Mar 5, 2008, 11:47 AM
 
The debate over whether or not some people prefer the Kindle can be summed up in this article.

I knew I wasn't nuts. It's a shame people thought I was.

Book lovers have emotional bond with paper

"the printed book remains one of the highest emotionally attached media we measured, so such innovations are likely to be somewhat slow in catching on in the mainstream"

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MacosNerd
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Mar 5, 2008, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
I knew I wasn't nuts. It's a shame people thought I was.
Oh you still are nuts, but your right on this topic
     
starman
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Mar 5, 2008, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
Oh you still are nuts, but your right on this topic
I got a good laugh from that. Thanks

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Mar 5, 2008, 04:27 PM
 
any word on international support?
we don't have time to stop for gas
     
design219
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Mar 5, 2008, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
"the printed book remains one of the highest emotionally attached media we measured, so such innovations are likely to be somewhat slow in catching on in the mainstream"
I don't think there is a big debate about how some, or even most people don't want to give up paper books, but that WILL change. It has to. Again I say, printing and paper production are terrible for the environment. I'm sure the majority of people at the advent of the auto didn't want to give up horses, and some people still ride horses, but you can't stop progress. And as opposed to cars, I think this technological advancement might be a really good thing.

About that article, I'd say at least 95% of the surveyed haven't seen a Kindle in person.

I like paper as well as anyone, and it will be a long time before well printed photo books go digital, but why do we need such consumption for Harlequin Romance novels?
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starman
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Mar 5, 2008, 04:41 PM
 
Seriously, you're comparing horses to cars?

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design219
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Mar 5, 2008, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Seriously, you're comparing horses to cars?
Well, no, I was using an example of how a new technology may have been perceived in its early stages. I wasn't there, but I'm pretty sure horses where a serious mode of personal transportation before cars.

I really think and hope digital books will reduce the need for paper and printing, and I also think people will get used to it and like the advantages once they actually use it.
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Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
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starman
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Mar 5, 2008, 07:22 PM
 
I'll never give up books. Never.

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design219
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Mar 5, 2008, 08:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
I'll never give up books. Never.
Soldier on brother!

Out of curiosity, have you actually seen and read anything on a Kindle?
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Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
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finboy
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Mar 6, 2008, 12:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
So explain how another DEVICE which is the SAME SIZE as a book is "perfect".

It's not like we went from LPs with a diamond stylus to MP3 here, we're talking ADDING problems with a book reader.
My wife was reading her Sony the other night, and talking about how Nora Roberts in eBook was soooo much better than the old school version.

Then I said "toss it over here so I can see it."

Used books cost 50 cents. Plus, you can throw them.
     
starman
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Mar 6, 2008, 12:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by design219 View Post
Soldier on brother!

Out of curiosity, have you actually seen and read anything on a Kindle?
Do I have to? I don't like reading things on any screen, even if it is "digital ink". Plus, they're too expensive to "try", and I don't know anyone that owns one.

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MacosNerd
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Mar 6, 2008, 08:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by design219 View Post
Out of curiosity, have you actually seen and read anything on a Kindle?
I saw a guy on the subway attempt to use one. I peaked over his shoulder. The text was readable. It was too large, awkward and cumbersome to be used while standing up on a subway. This just reinforces my idea that books are much more versatile and easier to use.
     
design219
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Mar 6, 2008, 08:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Do I have to? I don't like reading things on any screen, even if it is "digital ink".
No you don't, but you seem to be so against these things, I just wanted to know if it was from actual experience. You say you don't like things on a "screen", but this is not like any computer screen at all.
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Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
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starman
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Mar 6, 2008, 09:13 AM
 
I don't like it from a few points of view. First, you haven't needed batteries to read for thousands of years. Now I have to buy batteries for a book? I like flipping pages. I like flipping to a point in a book. I like knowing where something is in a book from how the text is laid out (yeah, I remember things that way). I like marking things, writing in the margins, tossing them aside, that they're flexible. You can't do ANY of those things with a Kindle. So, I don't see how experience matters.

And for the record: I don't like audiobooks either.

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design219
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Mar 6, 2008, 09:22 AM
 
I agree completely on audiobooks. That's not reading.

I think the Kindle will evolve to allow things like writing in margins. As for the physical experience, it will never be the same as a paper book, true.

I understand the attachment to traditional books, but I am very excited by the possibilities of the digital book, if not this Kindle, then the next generations of it.
__________________________________________________

My stupid iPhone game: Nesen Probe, it's rather old, annoying and pointless, but it's free.
Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
keep up with the ever updating iOS. RIP Nesen Probe.
     
starman
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Mar 6, 2008, 09:26 AM
 
Ok, I'll say this.

I don't like the KINDLE. That doesn't mean that Apple or Sony or some other company will come out with something that I WILL like in the future. The problem is that books can never be replaced completely. Art and photography books, specifically.

I realize there's this need people seem to have to move simple text to a digital device, but unlike music, the translation doesn't work because books aren't passive like music is. With books, you have a connection with them. With music, you can listen to it in the car, with headphones, around the house.

Also, I liked how in Star Trek (both TWoK and TNG) that books were used to show the one and ONLY way that an old-fashioned analog technology stays in the 24th century.

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design219
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Mar 6, 2008, 09:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
I realize there's this need people seem to have to move simple text to a digital device...
There may be a "cool" or "tech" appeal to some, but for me, it's more environmental. That is the greatest thing about this move. Everything from the nasty production of paper and ink to shipping costs to landfill space could be greatly reduced.

And as whether it is paper or digital ink, reading is still reading.

And again, I agree with you that certain types of books are a long way from being acceptable in a digital form, but soooo many are perfect for this.
__________________________________________________

My stupid iPhone game: Nesen Probe, it's rather old, annoying and pointless, but it's free.
Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
keep up with the ever updating iOS. RIP Nesen Probe.
     
starman
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Mar 6, 2008, 09:39 AM
 
I can't argue with you on the environmental issue. Still, are Kindles any better for the environment?

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