[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Just a quick question.

Are you sure you guys aren't just getting the first month free for wireless essentials?, cause that would work out to the $30 for just the data.

Yep I am sure.

[freudling]

All of these plans look horrid. Sorry, but they are really terrrible. It's funny to see Canadians actually try and convince each other that "their" plan is good, or maybe even better than most in the country.

[Mastrap]

$15 a month for 6GB of data added to whatever plan he had before looks pretty good to me.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

$15 a month for 6GB of data added to whatever plan he had before looks pretty good to me.

Actually it is $15 including unlimited texts, 6g's data, visual voicemail and name display. Can't argue with that.

[kmkkid]

Well I called up customer relations and failed to get them to budge at all on pricing.

He went so far as to argue with me saying I had no idea what I was talking about and then resorted to basically screaming at me.

I will be calling again, this time to speak to a manager.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Well I called up customer relations and failed to get them to budge at all on pricing.

Probably 'cause they've already got your 3 years. Probably the only way they'll now budge is if you threaten to leave.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Probably 'cause they've already got your 3 years. Probably the only way they'll now budge is if you threaten to leave.

Well $400 is a lot less than 3 yrs @ $100/mo. I think I shall threaten to leave.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Well I called up customer relations and failed to get them to budge at all on pricing.

He went so far as to argue with me saying I had no idea what I was talking about and then resorted to basically screaming at me.

I will be calling again, this time to speak to a manager.

The secret is to tell them you want to cancel because bell is offering you unlimited data for $15 and if they can't do better you are out.

Anyway, it had a dead pixel and the USB cable is flakey so sunday I went to the Applestore and they replaced the iphone on the spot and I have to order the cable over the net as they didn't have any.

So it seems that 1 dead pixel is enough for Apple to swap it so if you have one give it a shot.

[Eug]

Note:

According to people who have done this thing with Roger retentions, most of the time they will offer you all sorts of things to keep you. However, sometimes they will simply just cancel you as you've requested.

aS got a really good package from Rogers retentions, but his the best iPhone related retention package so far. Most others have not gotten anything near as nice as what he got.

YMMV

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Well I called up customer relations and failed to get them to budge at all on pricing.

He went so far as to argue with me saying I had no idea what I was talking about and then resorted to basically screaming at me.

I will be calling again, this time to speak to a manager.

Many people have gotten no movement at all on 3G data pricing, even after they threatened to leave. aS got VERY lucky, and yes, even for someone who didn't already have the iPhone.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Note:

According to people who have done this thing with Roger retentions, most of the time they will offer you all sorts of things to keep you. However, sometimes they will simply just cancel you as you've requested.

How many times have you called retentions Eug? I have been with Rogers for 8 years and I get a deal out of them when I call every year 100% of the time. All my friends call also and they also get crazy deals and it is never a problem.

Again, don't bother reading forums, just call them and try it and you'll score.

BTW, my friend with a 1G iPhone called and wanted the data pack. They offered her 300 megs for $15 plus unlimited texting but the kicker is now ALL data plans require a 1 year contract. She said no because of the contract and the fact that she currently gets 5 megs for $3.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

How many times have you called retentions Eug? I have been with Rogers for 8 years and I get a deal out of them when I call every year 100% of the time. All my friends call also and they also get crazy deals and it is never a problem.

Again, don't bother reading forums, just call them and try it and you'll score.

Score!

I called threatening to cancel my 3 year data contract that pays them over $1000 over the course of the contract...

...so they went ahead and cancelled it.

---

Actually they offered me a crazy deal... A $5 credit if I take an additional option... which would mean my phone bill would actually go up.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Score!

I called threatening to cancel my 3 year data contract that pays them over $1000 over the course of the contract...

...so they went ahead and cancelled it.

---

Actually they offered me a crazy deal... A $5 credit if I take an additional option... which would mean my phone bill would actually go up.

The key with those phone calls is to never *actually* tell them to cancel the service. Say that you're thinking of canceling due to X plan. If they say they can't meet it just say "Ok, thanks. I'm going to go to the carrier x store now." If they don't say anything at that point then you've lost and just need to hang up. But the moment you say "I want to cancel" they can do it if they want to.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

The key with those phone calls is to never *actually* tell them to cancel the service. Say that you're thinking of canceling due to X plan. If they say they can't meet it just say "Ok, thanks. I'm going to go to the carrier x store now." If they don't say anything at that point then you've lost and just need to hang up. But the moment you say "I want to cancel" they can do it if they want to.

The key with those phone calls is that not everyone there is as much of a pushover as aS makes them out to be. I had said before that this is exactly what happened to others in various forums, but aS claimed it is never a problem. Well, my example is good one that proves it does happen.

In any case, I'm perfectly willing to go dataless for the time being, as a test run (which is why I was willing to call retentions for this).

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Actually they offered me a crazy deal... A $5 credit if I take an additional option... which would mean my phone bill would actually go up.

I haven't tried to get a deal on the iPhone plan, but aS has a point. I call Robbers very six months or so and ask them if there is anything they can do to reduce my bill - we have internet, cable TV and wireless services with them. About half the time they knock something off, the other times they make an offer that doesn't make sense and I pass.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

I haven't tried to get a deal on the iPhone plan, but aS has a point. I call Robbers very six months or so and ask them if there is anything they can do to reduce my bill - we have internet, cable TV and wireless services with them. About half the time they knock something off, the other times they make an offer that doesn't make sense and I pass.

Of course he has a point. It's true that you may get a good deal if you try. However, my point was that you can't just assume you'll get a good deal, and you have to be prepared to deal with the headache.

Anyways, this is what the iPhone without data looks like.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Score!

I called threatening to cancel my 3 year data contract that pays them over $1000 over the course of the contract...

...so they went ahead and cancelled it.

Some tips:

1) Always try to get more BEFORE you sign a 3 year contract and not 1 week after.
2) Say you want to cancel because bell is offering you unlimited internet for $15.
3) Always speak to customer relations not Customer Service or billing.
4) If they do call your bluff say you want to keep your number so for them not to do anything and you will call bell to transfer your number.
5) Always try to get more BEFORE you sign a 3 year contract and not 1 week after!!!!

[Eug]

More tips:

1) Don't expect the moon if your plan is a low revenue one in the first place.
- My GF's plan is under $20 per month, including all fees and taxes. I betcha her retention credits are pretty much nil.
2) Don't expect the moon if your plan is already significantly better than the available existing plans.
- For example, my $30 plan would cost $41 if you tried to match it with existing plans.

That's awesome.

However, I will point out that I didn't actually plan on cancelling data. It's cancelled because I took your advice to use threat of cancellation as a bargaining tool... We're both cheap bastards.

But no worries, I can just add it again later if I want.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

More tips:

1) Don't expect the moon if your plan is a low revenue one in the first place.
- My GF's plan is under $20 per month, including all fees and taxes. I betcha her retention credits are pretty much nil.

True enough but the main problem is they know you aren't going to cancel 1 week after a 3 year contract. He told me they rate you from 1 (lowest) to 5 on how far they are willing to go on deals and hardware discounts. I am a 4 and it is based on how much you spend each month.

Like I said if you called before signing 3 years they would have done better. If it wasn't relations you spoke to and billing or service try calling again and mention the bell thing and see what they say.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Or you can join Fido. I think evenings start at 7 pm on Fido, but then you lose the free WiFi hotspots.

Also, the per-second billing on Fido can also very significant. I make a lot of short calls and my last invoice showed that I had 156 minutes and 50 seconds worth of calls.

I just calculated what it would be on Rogers, and it's 211 minutes, a difference of 35%. Why? Cuz Rogers uses per-minute billing.

Using this as a gauge, 300 minutes on Fido equals roughly 400 minutes on Rogers.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I still find those Wifi hotspots a joke.

[Eug]

Do you have to sign in for those WiFi hotspots? Or does it recognize your iPhone and automatically let you in?

I was downtown near Bay and College yesterday, and a Rogers WiFi Hotspot showed up on my iPhone... except I couldn't actually test it because the signal was so weak and the connection timed out. It must have been from a coffee shop nearby or something, but it's not as if I'd specifically seek it out to use their WiFi.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Do you have to sign in for those WiFi hotspots? Or does it recognize your iPhone and automatically let you in?

I'm guessing it lets you connect but then the first website you hit it might ask your for your phone #.

[freudling]

The bottom line, and having researched plans again, with taxes and fees a $140 per month plan gives the user some freedom, everything else is for the landline owners.

and $15 data per month Eug? It is $30 per month.

My plan that I am going into (Fido):

750 daytime minutes
Unlimited eves/weekends after 6 pm
300 minutes long distance US/Canada
Voicemail/call display/call forward
~$130 per month

The plan is still not where I want it, but close. I would like visual voicemail (another $8 per month! jerks) and another 300 daytime minutes, which would bring my plan ~160 per month. Data would also be nice but $30 per month... I would be paying about $200 per month.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by freudling 

and $15 data per month Eug? It is $30 per month.

aS got a retention plan that includes data and a whole bunch of other stuff, for $15 extra per month.

[freudling]

Updates:

Got a retention plan today from Fido... here is the breakdown:

3 year contract
$40 per month:
700 daytime minutes
Unlimited eves and weekends after 7 pm
Addons:
$15 6 GB per month data plan
$5 100 text messages
$10 1000 long distance minutes across CAN anytime
$10 unlimited incoming minutes
$10 200 more weekday minutes
$7 unlimited eve/weekends after 5 pm
$8 voicemail/call display
Total: $112 + taxes

So for $112 plus taxes (system access fee included), I get 1000 long distance minutes across Canada anytime, voicemail/call display, unlimited incoming, 900 weekday min., 6 GB data, unlimited eve/weekends after 5 pm, 100 text messages.

What I will probably do is lose the data plan and the 1000 long distance minutes (use a phone card instead) which will bring my plan down to $87 + taxes (system access fee included). So far, this is the best plan I have had.

As a bonus, they have given me 6 months of no nonsense unlimited calling (not long distance of course). 6 months is a lot of time, so I had nothing to lose. After 6 months, the above constraints will apply, but still, I will get unlimited incoming calls and 45 min. per day of calls out, then unlimited after 5 pm. I am also using Truphone on the iPhone to make calls over wifi when I can.

[Eug]

The $10 1000 Canadian long distance minutes is offered to everyone and their dog by retentions. I believe the same is true for the $10 unlimited incoming, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

OTOH the $15 6 GB data plan is a very good deal, as it is hard to get, and half the usual rate.

Do you plan on not using any data? Cuz $15 for 6 GB data is awesome.

EDIT:

Gotta love it. They're changing the phone number for Fido retentions. I guess they've been getting too many calls from us cheap bastards.

[freudling]

Eug:

I think I don't need the $15 data plan and, guess what? Even if I don't take it, they are discounting my monthly rate by $15 regardless, so it will be even less. I know, I don't understand other than that I too am a cheap bastard.

Really Eug and others, do you really™ need® a data plan on your phone? Chances are most consumers don't. Wifi in cities anyway is enough. For business, ok, data is essential... I just look at it as a waste. If I am travelling then sure... but I don't travel in Canada that much. If they allowed you to use your sim in a 3G Express Card in a laptop then it would be much more interesting.

At any rate, I am on the internet enough, I don't want to have more excuses to surf the web when I should be enjoying the sun and being in reality.

[freudling]

Oh, also Eug, it is hard to get 900 daytime minutes with unlimited eve/weekends after 5 pm with unlimited incoming. It just is not a combo they offer in their published plans. Anyway, I feel I have some degree of freedom now as I don't have a landline. I do, however, have a world unlimited subscription to Skype for $13 per month with a Philips cordless Skype phone. So, the phone companies can go eat lunch, other than Fido. If Truphone pans out or skype on the iPhone, I will reduce my cell plan and cut it in half... using VOIP with the iPhone as much as possible. VOIP is where I would sign up for the $15 data plan per month in a hearbeat... not sure how Fido would be able to block me using Skype on the iPhone ported through their 3G network... off grid cell calling legally!

[Mastrap]

The data plan is essential to get the most out of an iPhone IMO. I have WIFI at home and at the office, but I still find that I check mail or just plain check something out online when out of coverage. This was one of the reasons I upgraded from an iPod Touch to the iPhone.

What is a total waste of money however, again IMO, is a long distance plan. Trufone offers me global long distance for between 2-3 cents a minute, so does jajah.com, with no commitment of any kind. Both have iPhone specific apps out, trufone even plugs into the iPhone's address book. It's only a matter of time until Skype enters the market, with unlimited calling across the US and Canada for $3.00 a month. Can't wait.

[freudling]

Mastrap:

Good points, but the data plan I don't agree with: I rarely leave my home, so I have no need to have mobile internet. I work for home... And when I do leave home, I have free wifi spots everywhere, as I live downtown in a big city. I also was in Europe for 6 weeks and the data plan would be useless there. So for ME, it is a waste of money, but maybe not for you.

I agree though, the long distance plan is not worth it for me either.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

The data plan is essential to get the most out of an iPhone IMO. I have WIFI at home and at the office, but I still find that I check mail or just plain check something out online when out of coverage. This was one of the reasons I upgraded from an iPod Touch to the iPhone.

Yup. As I expected, once I cancelled data, I really notice it. Could I live without it? Yeah. Do I want to? No, even though data essentially doubles my monthly bill. (I have a low dollar voice plan.)

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

What is a total waste of money however, again IMO, is a long distance plan.

I suspect that's one reason they're offering it to everyone. 1000 minutes free in Canada sounds like a lot, and it is useful for some people, but for many others it's less useful than it might sound.

1) Many people can't use all the minutes anyway, even if they wanted to. I see retention types mentioning it all the time, when they have say only 300 minutes of talk time or whatever to begin with.
2) It doesn't cover US long distance, so Fido still dings you anyway for any non-Canada calls.
3) They're charging you $10 more for it. I find it curious that they offer 1000 for $10, but they don't offer 500 for $5, or even better, 100 for $1 or $2.

[Burn]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

The key with those phone calls is to never *actually* tell them to cancel the service. Say that you're thinking of canceling due to X plan. If they say they can't meet it just say "Ok, thanks. I'm going to go to the carrier x store now." If they don't say anything at that point then you've lost and just need to hang up. But the moment you say "I want to cancel" they can do it if they want to.

True. One of the first things call centre people are trained with are abusive language/attitude and threats. There are enough ppl who will just call your bluff for kicks. Remember, you are talking to a person who quite likely does not give a flying you-know-what if you leave.

You may have seen my Fido mini drama in the other thread, but the last day I spoke with a Fido CSR to get the lowdown - I was fine with a backorder, but it went from a cpl days to delivery, to 2 weeks, to 30 days (mid august) and it sounded like the CSR was telling me to be patient with mid-August when he says "at least you bought in during the promotional time"... that did not appease me

The CSR just could not commit to any info, they're not given any. So, I said I am pretty sure I am going to cancel because I am hearing Rogers ppl and stores ARE receiving 16GB's, but I am going to think about it for today (opening the door for ANYTHING to happen, a CSR call, an email ANYTHING!!)

Nothing. So, day after my chat, I went to a store and bought one. Easy as that. Sure enough, as I am talking to the lady at Fido while at the Rogers store, explaining my little story, she goes and tells me my iPhone shipped yesterday. I was at a complete loss for words, I could only laugh.

The Fido CSR's who helped were all super nice and understanding, but their hands are tied.

Something in the back of my mind makes me think Rogers could do this intentionally to push people off Fido and their per second billing.. or maybe with an idea of killing Fido.. but I know these thoughts aren't very credible...

B.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Burn 

True. One of the first things call centre people are trained with are abusive language/attitude and threats. There are enough ppl who will just call your bluff for kicks. Remember, you are talking to a person who quite likely does not give a flying you-know-what if you leave.

Yup. They couldn't care less... except I'm sure they have to have some level of retentions, esp. for high value accounts. But for low dollar accounts? Meh.

For the record, my "threat" of cancelling data wasn't a nasty threat if anyone cares. I just called nicely and said that I felt my account was expensive because of the data, and if they could do anything about it, and if not I'd just cancel it. They politely said no to a data discount but said they could give me a small break for my voice plan. But the cancellation of the data didn't even matter in the end, because they gave me the voice plan break anyway after they cancelled the data plan.

[Eug]

So, one guy over HoFo got a charge of $11000 for three days worth of data. It would seem that Rogers is continuing to have billing server issues, because he had already purchased the $30 - 6 GB data plan but was still being charged by the KB.

[lenny]

I bought a 16GB iPhone last week at a local Fido reseller (after Fido CSR completely screwed up the order I placed by phone on launch day). Given the furor over unlimited data, and how speculative most of the hysteria has been, I've been very curious how much data I'd actually use.

I really tried to flog the phone as much as I could - surfing the web like crazy, downloading maps over 3G, mostly doing a lot of stuff within my normal usage but more of it (I'm not so into YouTube, but I watched a few videos because I could).

So, after one week, the grand total is... 40MB! So projecting to one month, we're talking 160MB per month usage, which would easily fit well within the cheapest of the much-reviled iPhone plans.

There are a few obvious caveats to this observation:

1. a lot of the time I am on fast WiFi at home or work; I had to go out of my way to surf more on 3G, just to check the speed and predict maximal usage, than I probably normally will
2. I used the phone's 'Network Data Usage' function under Settings > General, which presumably only shows activity under 3G and not WiFi (but this is what we are interested in, since it's 3G and not WiFi that is limited by the plan). Also we'll see if my Fido bill says the same thing...
3. maybe I'll use more if I start using additional data aware programs (but I doubt it)

For me, I don't think the fact that I'm mostly on WiFi lessens the impact of this observation - I think that will be true for many (although certainly not for all!) I suspected that the need for "unlimited data" was a bit overblown (I mean it would be nice not to worry about it, but I don't think I'll come close to any of the limits).

I went with the $45/400min voice plus $30/6GB data plan, which is still better than any of the iPhone plans for me for both voice and data.

I'm a lot more concerned about voice usage - the phone works way better for me as a business tool in terms of contacts integration etc. and I find I am *talking* a lot more. I'll be using the 3-month unlimited local voice promotion to figure out what plan I really need... I've used 327 minutes in the first week, mostly during weekdays (but including a lot of incoming calls, which are unlimited). This projects to around 1300min/month! I'll have to wait and see if the bill (thank god I'm on the unlimited promo for the first 3 months) breaks it down into daytime and evening/we and incoming usage.

I've had an iPod touch for a while so was already using the net a lot on a similar platform. The touch was great, and I started out thinking that WiFi would be enough. However it got to be increasingly frustrating to be on the road and see all the locked hotspots, or those that were unlocked but with one bar. Even the supposedly good signals often seemed to give a crappy connection (I don't know how people can screw this up - at home I have awesome WiFi). The iPhone has been a godsend for me...

By the way iNetwork Test has given download speeds of around 55 kbps over 3G (which is not bad), and up to 640 kbps over my 811.n WiFi/Videotron cable at home. I'm pretty happy with both 3G and WiFi speed - I think the reception is better on the iPhone than on the iPod touch (the plastic back, maybe?)

L

[Mastrap]

^ These are interesting observations, and I find that I can second most of them. Like you I use the iPhone via WIFI at home and at work. Like yourself, I've been using it as extensively as I could for a two weeks to figure out how much data I would actually need. The answer is, not much, about 42MB. That's with playing with the GPS, downloading apps from the app store. streaming some radio stations for a limited time.

I too find that because all data is so tightly integrated that I am using the iPhone as my main office phone and that I have started just giving people my cell number. We don't have a land line at home anymore anyway and it looks like the iPhone is becoming my main communication tool.

[Eug]

The first week I used over 100 MB, but my guess is I'd use a lot less than that on average, cuz the first week I was playing around with everything. So, the 750 MB plan would be fine for me. It would give me a lot of room to spare. The 300 MB plan seems doable but potentially anemic though, if I were to say go away a couple of weekends in a month to my mom's place which has no internet access. Note though that some people are using way more, simply because they're streaming internet radio to their iPhone.

BTW, I don't know exactly how much data I used, because the phone would lose data in the counter if the phone crashed. At one point I had something like 32 MB usage... and then the phone crashed it was down to 20 something in the counter. And in the first week, the iPhone crashed a fair bit, because I was installing so many 3rd party apps.

Luckily we now have WiFi at work though. If we didn't I would have used much more data. (They used to have no WiFi at all, but then people started bringing in their own wireless routers. A definite no-no, but this place is too big to police effectively.) So they relented and put up an institution-wide wireless network.

BTW, as I mentioned earlier, I have no 3G/EDGE/GRPS data support on my iPhone at all right now. It's only been a week off data, but I've noticed that several times a day I want to use the data on the iPhone but just can't. I really miss it.

[Eug]

The iPhone, Rogers, and the mythical Osborne effect.

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/serv.../Business/home

The company said first weekend sales of the iPhone topped those of any other device it has sold. But it also said Tuesday that the subsidy it pays on smart phone is the largest it has ever given on any device.

On a conference call with analysts Rogers executives said the wireless business took a noticeable hit following its announcement in June that it would bring the iPhone to Canada, as consumers withheld buying existing products. “It was like somebody slammed on the breaks,” said Bill Linton, the chief financial officer.

Rogers provided the first glimpse of contract details it negotiated with Apple in its results. The Toronto-based company said it has committed to buying a minimum of $150-million worth of iPhones and to sell them with a significant subsidy.

[FireWire]

I finally bought my iPhone today. A black 16 GB. I tried to bargain a good deal through retention but I didn't succeed to get what I wanted. I'm still pretty satisfied, I ended up paying only 10$ more than what I was paying currently. For about 60$ (plus taxes), I get Unlimited Evenings and week-ends after 6 PM, 250 wd minutes, the package deal with call display, visual voicemail, Who Called and 2500 outgoing text messages and of course the 6 GB data plan. And I got the phone for 275$. I think I could have obtained a better deal but the one I got is not too bad.

I encounterd no problem so far; everything is working fine. GPS reception is good and 3G speed is quite acceptable.

I'm upgrading from a 3-4 years old Sony Ericsson T637, which itself remplaced a Panasonic TX210 from 2001.