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Subzero Diesel949 · Dec 11, 2002, 11:24 PM

So long Adium. Nice knowin ya.

Aside from the GUI (go code it yourself if you don't like it), this version has been long overdue for OS X. Fire now supports file transfer, buddy icons (I like how they show up next to the user's name), and away message viewing to name a few. Sure some things are still lacking (they're working on it), but it's about time the bar has been raised in the field of OS X IM apps.

And get this, it's freeware! (Unlike that certain other app that charges $10 and makes too many references to that pet dog)

gorickey · Dec 11, 2002, 11:37 PM

So Fire uses the TOC protocol, or what? If so, how are they able to use the OSCAR features?

Guy Incognito · Dec 11, 2002, 11:41 PM

I love the way people go for the fluff features over the GUI.

Guy Incognito · Dec 11, 2002, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Subzero Diesel949:

And get this, it's freeware! (Unlike that certain other app that charges $10 and makes too many references to that pet dog)

Way to go...you're starting the thread really well, jackass.

OSCAR is coming in the next release of Proteus. But yeah...$10 is waaaay to much and that dog is enough to drive anyone away from Proteus.

Anyways...have fun with "teh shittiest client GUI EV4R!!!!"

Byes!

gorickey · Dec 11, 2002, 11:43 PM

I just saw that Fire is using some help from GAIM, and the source is also available now, so either two things are going to happen:

1.) Adium, and others will soon follow...

2.) AOL will try hard to block these features for such clients...

foobars · Dec 11, 2002, 11:55 PM

I love how Guy hijacks every AIM client thread that isn't about Proteus. Why insult the features when they're coming in the next release of Proteus, Guy? Sorry but untill b16 comes out Proteus can't compete right now- Fire beat everyone to the punch.

Oh and by the way I changed all the icons in Fire and edited some of the nibs. Wow look at that, it looks and works exactly like Protus. Except, of course, with more features.

Guy Incognito · 12:06 AM

Originally posted by foobars:
I love how Guy hijacks every AIM client thread that isn't about Proteus. Why insult the features when they're coming in the next release of Proteus, Guy? Sorry but untill b16 comes out Proteus can't compete right now- Fire beat everyone to the punch.

Oh and by the way I changed all the icons in Fire and edited some of the nibs. Wow look at that, it looks and works exactly like Protus. Except, of course, with more features.

And you're helping putting the thread back on its rails how? By insulting me? **** you.

This thread went down the toilet and should have been locked up right after SubzeroIQ decided to stick that Proteus comment at the end of the first post.

"Proteus can't compete right now- Fire beat everyone to the punch." Because they added OSCAR support? Get real.

Proteus has Address Book support...does that mean Fire can't compete right now? Proteus beat everyone to the punch? Get lost....you two characters reek of a trolls that pissed all over themselves.

gorickey · Dec 12, 2002, 12:08 AM

Wow, it's getting deep in here and I forgot my boots...

foobars · Dec 12, 2002, 12:11 AM

It amuses me to no end how personally insulted you are when somebody says they don't ****LOVE**** Proteus.

Get a life.

Subzero and I were stating OPINIONS. That doensn't make us trolls. Flaming us for them does make you one however.

AKcrab · Dec 12, 2002, 12:17 AM

Where the hell is holiday cheer? Nowhere near MacNN Forums these days.

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by foobars:
It amuses me to no end how personally insulted you are when somebody says they don't ****LOVE**** Proteus.

Get a life.

Subzero and I were stating OPINIONS. That doensn't make us trolls. Flaming us for them does make you one however.

I'm stating an opinion too. And one opinion is that you're a clown!

I'm playing around with the latest Fire and it's just as ridiculous GUI-wise and feature-wise as before. That's my opinion and if you don't like it, you can kiss my ugly green troll ass.

poocat · Dec 12, 2002, 12:20 AM

wow.

i'm glad you're not a mod.
locking this thread, which i was actually curious about because i'm wondering when adium/proteus will include these features, and how fire is to use, would have been a pretty bad thing. making comments about software does not determine intelligence, being voraciously opinionated does not determine status, and generally pissing on threads you don't like does NOT make you more respected as a voice about what you DO like.

just my thoughts.

anyone USE this app? how does it compare to adium? how did they get those features in, and will they be blocked by aol soon?

serious thoughts are always welcome.

poocat.

foobars · Dec 12, 2002, 12:24 AM

I'm using it now. The interface is as bad as ever but the implementation of stuff like buddy icons is done much better than even the official AIM client. Seeing as Fire now has everything I need and takes up no system resources, I've switched. But I'll be the first to jump on the Adium or Proteus boat whenever they come out with OSCAR-compatible clients.

Guy Incognito · 12:45 AM

I could sit down and write the pros and cons of Fire and Proteus. And let everyone be the judge...in fact, I'll do that now. Here goes:

Fire pros:
�Uses the latest protocols and the better protocols
�Encryptions and profanity filters
�Decent history logging and searching features

Fire cons:
�Can't use multiple accounts from one same service (ie can't have two AIM accounts logged on at once)
�Uses the ripped off and very confusing 3-view idea from Proteus (Proteus dropped it returning back to the less confusing, more simple single view)
�Doesn't have a 1-window interface for all incoming messages.
�Uncustomizable GUI...and the UI is the shittiest and most complex thing I've seen in a long time.
�No Address Book support.
�Sucktacular grouping of same contacts (using different services)

Proteus pros:
�Excellent and easy to use, clean GUI
�Customizable GUI (sound, theme, emoticon, transparencies, colors)
�Address Book support
�Makes use of multiple accounts (and this method prevents the app from crashing...only the daemons can crash and they just reload after they crash.)
�Intuitive grouping of same contacts (using different services)
�Message Center (1-window interface for contact conversations)
�Terminal integration via Shell Commands

Proteus cons:
�Doesn't use the latest and best protocol.
�Costs money if you care about the hard work Justin puts in his app (but worth the money IMO)
�History logging lacking
�No encryption option

Seriously...right now using Fire is like jumping into a pool filled with rusty razor blades, broken glass and vinegar.

But feel free to disagree...and add to the list of pros and cons of both app.

Brien · Dec 12, 2002, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:

Way to go...you're starting the thread really well, jackass.

OSCAR is coming in the next release of Proteus. But yeah...$10 is waaaay to much and that dog is enough to drive anyone away from Proteus.

Anyways...have fun with "teh shittiest client GUI EV4R!!!!"

Byes!

Proteus is more polished though, and all the menus work.

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by brien:

Proteus is more polished though, and all the menus work.

I was being sarcastic...I love Proteus. It's way better than Fire. I'm surprised there are people that still wonder if Proteus is better than Fire.

The difference between the two is night and day. There's no doubt about it, Proteus wins as the best multi-IM client.

And if features such as viewing buddy icons and viewing away messages is such an amazing thing...it's coming in Proteus anyways.

The OSCAR protocol is really only great for the .mac support, imo. The rest is fluff. Of course file transfer will bring more seamlessness to Proteus.

juanvaldes · Dec 12, 2002, 01:03 AM

cool, features I don't need. At least now I won't have to fire up iShit for those idiots who want to send me files.

edit: and for those lazy ones...

phrenzy · Dec 12, 2002, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
cool, features I don't need. At least now I won't have to fire up iShit for those idiots who want to send me files.

edit: and for those lazy ones...

How do I get it to show me the buddy icons? Can you show them in the buddy list like iChat? And where would you specify your OWN buddy icon in fire?

Corintheus · Dec 12, 2002, 03:11 AM

Grow up for the love of god. It's all a matter of preference. I like Proteus AND Fire. I'll just say that neither will win until they've reached something akin to Trillian.

Until then, they both have their pros and cons. I just wish people would stop bitching about which is better.

Subzero Diesel949 · Dec 12, 2002, 05:44 AM

It's amazing when OS X came out many screamed bloody murder because Apple emphasized eye candy over functionality...I would read stuff like:

"The computer is so slow having to draw these genie effects and shadows. When are we gonna get labels?"

Funny how the tables have turned now. When something gets improved functionality wise, people gripe about the GUI, which can easily be changed as much as putting in a new theme over Aqua. If you want the pretty eye-candy over file transfer, more power to you. To each his own.

I do find the ability to view away messages convenient.

File transfer? Try to get one of your PC buddies to use FTP. No, really, try it. Watch them give up in 2 minutes. "It's soooo complicated! You don't have file transfer? MAC sux!" Send it over e-mail you ask? Good luck sending a 20 MB MPEG file of that video your friend shot that day.

If Adium gets OSCAR and still surpasses Fire with more options and window views, yeah I might switch back...but I also have an ICQ and Yahoo accounts. But right now Fire has won me over. It still needs work (I already acknowledged that), but at least I don't need to rely on the official AIM client or iCrap to see people's away messages or to do file transfer.

<personal opinion><flame suit>
If you have multiple AIM accounts (since Proteus prides itself on being able to connect multiple client accounts), why? If you really want to avoid someone block them or hide yourself as "invisible." Oh wait, you can't do that in Proteus.

Paying $10 for a public IM app "just for a better GUI" is ridiculous. And don't even try to go there about "Why do you even own a Mac then?"

</flame suit></personal opinion>

Guy, I'm not even going to waste my time replying to your personal insults. It gets old, really.

Vanquish · Dec 12, 2002, 07:06 AM

Oh wait, you can't do that in Proteus

you can

Jan Van Boghout · Dec 12, 2002, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by Vanquish:

you can

Not individually for every account

I'm a full time iChat user now, it's a lot more fun than either Proteus or Fire.
And I think J. Wood screwed up the drawered interface badly. I proposed it and he made an ugly mess with too many buttons out of it. Too bad

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by Subzero Diesel949:

Guy, I'm not even going to waste my time replying to your personal insults. It gets old, really.

When I'm talking about GUI I'm not just talking about pretty icons. I'm talking about the layout and the ease of use.

Fire has neither of those. Changing the Fire icons might make a few things prettier, but the interface is a mess to begin with. Proteus used to have a messy interface at one point and I stopped using it in favor of an iChat and MSN 3.0 combo, but Justin cleaned up the interface. I think the Fire team should do the same...for their sake.

You're getting really old. This thread is getting really old. And starting threads by insulting another product right off the bat is getting old.

Grow up.

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Not individually for every account

I'm a full time iChat user now, it's a lot more fun than either Proteus or Fire.
And I think J. Wood screwed up the drawered interface badly. I proposed it and he made an ugly mess with too many buttons out of it. Too bad

You can IM to ICQ and MSN users with iChat?

I hate it when people think AIM is the only client out there. I thought this conversation was about multi-IMs...correct me if I'm wrong.

Zimphire · Dec 12, 2002, 09:08 AM

Guy has a personal relationship with Proteus. From the first days of it he was the main spokesperson for it. Since day one he has shunned quite a few people away from it because of his silly ranting.

I never liked Proteus. It was always buggy, and could never stay online FOR ME. I liked Fire's GUI better. Fire always worked for me. I use iChat now though, but I might try Fire again now that it has file transfer abilities.

BTW Guy, you have done the very things you are complaining about these guys doing. You know starting a Proteus thread bashing Fire with comparison. Why is it ok for you to do it, but when these guys do it, the thread needs locked? I think you are just a tad upset because Fire beat Proteus with these features. I know from past experiences with you that you could never stand when Fire came out with something good.

You really shouldn't get emotionally attached to software.

I am sure both Proteus and Fire are great. Different people have different opinions. Live with it.

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 09:28 AM

I've stopped creating thread to bash other clients...it's a thing of the past. But I will bash other clients in existing threads if someone decides it would be funny to bash Proteus needlessly. Especially now that Proteus is the best client.

When I grow up, I wanna marry Proteus.

Of course people have different opinions...why else would people keep using DOS and Win3.1 when System 6 and System 7 were available back in the days. Doesn't mean their opinion doesn't suck balls. I'm just trying to make people happy is all...and failing miserably.

Yay, Zimphire and I in a IM-client thread...together again. Hehe.

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 09:41 AM

OSCAR protocol aside, Proteus does just about everything better than Fire. It's really not the zealotry speaking. I know everyone has their own opinion but if people sat down for 2 seconds and used Proteus and saw how easy it is to use compared to Fire, they'd fall in love with it.

Features are great...I'm not saying the OSCAR protocol is crap...it's clearly better than TOC. But what good is it if it's badly implemented on top of difficult to use UI?

I played around with Fire all night yesterday and couldn't figure how to see the buddy icon and it took me awhile to figure that the away message was clumsily hidden in the Buddy Info window.

File transfer was in the File menu...but shouldn't there be a toolbar item for it? Or maybe drag and drop support ala iChat?

People bash iChat all the time, because it's missing profiles and other such things...but iChat just plain works when it comes to conversations and file transfer.

As for Proteus...like brien so eloquently said, it's got better polish...way better polish.

Jan Van Boghout · Dec 12, 2002, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
You can IM to ICQ and MSN users with iChat?

I hate it when people think AIM is the only client out there. I thought this conversation was about multi-IMs...correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think AIM is the only IM client. Actually most of my friends use MSN. I don't talk to anyone on ICQ and I use MSN 3 for MSN. Proteus doesn't handle text styles in MSN and group chat doesn't work either. (Fire probably has this problem too, I haven't used it in ages) So I am talking about multiple IM protocols, which doesn't necessarily require a multi-IM client.

Millennium · Dec 12, 2002, 11:28 AM

So, how is Fire going to handle the constant blocking attempts which AOL will soon be raining down upon their heads?

Honest question. That's the price that third-party IM clients (except for iChat) pay for OSCAR support: AOL will fight you tooth and claw. Has anyone yet perfected the technique of automatically updating to get around this, or is it constant-download time?

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Millennium:
So, how is Fire going to handle the constant blocking attempts which AOL will soon be raining down upon their heads?

Honest question. That's the price that third-party IM clients (except for iChat) pay for OSCAR support: AOL will fight you tooth and claw. Has anyone yet perfected the technique of automatically updating to get around this, or is it constant-download time?

Well Fire currently has TOC set as default...and people have to manually change the protocol to OSCAR. So users can always revert back to TOC if they have problems connecting.

Subzero Diesel949 · 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:

You're getting really old. This thread is getting really old. And starting threads by insulting another product right off the bat is getting old.

Grow up.

Then why do you keep coming back here replying to anything anti-Proteus? If this thread is getting old to you because you're getting offended by the comments, feel free to walk right on out of this thread. You won't be missed.

Better yet, go start your own thread ranting and raving about how wonderful Proteus is.

I'm getting old? Then don't read my posts. Simple as that.

I'm through with you.

Edited for comments

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Subzero Diesel949:

I'm through with you.

Great. I was getting scared you'd stick around. Run along now.

You know what happens when kids play with Fire. They get hurt. I don't want you to get hurt. Hehe.

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 12:49 PM

Like I said, this thread should have been locked after the first post when Subzero decided to take a jab at Proteus and Adium.

This kind of thing normally develops later on in the thread...but Subzero thought it would be funny to slap it into the the first post.

Mods need to be picked for their ability to sense when fights are about to break out. I don't think the current forum mods are any good at locking threads like these.

Demonhood sent me a message saying I was way out of line...and I was...but so is Subzero. Instead, Demonhood could have simply locked this thread or deleted it.

But such is life.

Jim Paradise · Dec 12, 2002, 01:24 PM

What I find incredible is the amount of emotional attachment to an *IM* application.

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Jim Paradise:
What I find incredible is the amount of emotional attachment to an *IM* application.

Oh come on...I'm sure you've got emotional attachments to some other thing that may seem weird to other people.

People have emotional attachments to lots of weird things...like Macs.

Subzero Diesel949 · Dec 12, 2002, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
So, how is Fire going to handle the constant blocking attempts which AOL will soon be raining down upon their heads?

Honest question. That's the price that third-party IM clients (except for iChat) pay for OSCAR support: AOL will fight you tooth and claw. Has anyone yet perfected the technique of automatically updating to get around this, or is it constant-download time?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Fire is using a reverse engineered library for OSCAR. Back in the day when 10.0 was out they kept getting blocked by AOL for reverse-engineering, which was why they switched to TOC in the first place.

Guy Incognito · Dec 12, 2002, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Subzero Diesel949:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Fire is using a reverse engineered library for OSCAR. Back in the day when 10.0 was out they kept getting blocked by AOL for reverse-engineering, which was why they switched to TOC in the first place.

Fire uses 'libfaim'...a reverse-engineered OSCAR protocol project.

kidtexas · Dec 12, 2002, 02:57 PM

I love it...

kidtexas · Dec 12, 2002, 02:58 PM

when people post...

kidtexas · Dec 12, 2002, 02:58 PM

2 and 3 posts in a row.

Zimphire · Dec 13, 2002, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
Especially now that Proteus is the best client.

You mean in your opinion. I and many others still think it sucks.

Zimphire · Dec 13, 2002, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
Like I said, this thread should have been locked after the first post when Subzero decided to take a jab at Proteus and Adium.

Why? That isn't against the rules.

This kind of thing normally develops later on in the thread...but Subzero thought it would be funny to slap it into the the first post.

I think you are being a little thin skinned.

Mods need to be picked for their ability to sense when fights are about to break out. I don't think the current forum mods are any good at locking threads like these.

Are you kidding me? Fights aren't against the rules. There are fights ALL THE TIME in MacNN.

Demonhood sent me a message saying I was way out of line...and I was...but so is Subzero. Instead, Demonhood could have simply locked this thread or deleted it.

But such is life.

Subzero wasn't out of line for stating his opinion. You went apenuts over it. If the thread needed locked, it was only because of your posts.

Guy Incognito · Dec 13, 2002, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:

You mean in your opinion. I and many others still think it sucks.

Check again, Batman!

Proteus is king of the multi-IM clients. You and many others might still think it sucks...but almost twice more think it's better.

The number might be more if the Fire-fanboys decided to give Proteus a try. Some of you Fire-fanboys probably haven't tried it in a long time and don't know how much it has improved. It's like people on Windows that are ignorant of Macs...they don't want to use it because they're too used to Windows. I say give it a try. You won't really be disappointed...maybe in denial, but not disappointed.

Subzero Diesel949 · Dec 13, 2002, 01:24 PM

I'd like to see how many people are actually using the 2.2 alphas. That's kinda like saying Windows is king, but neglect to break down which flavors are being used.

I stopped using Proteus at 2.2a10, so your potential argument of me not using it in a while is null.

Before jumping ship to Fire 0.32a, Adium was my client of choice. When they improve on it, I might switch back. But for right now, Fire is leading the pack in AIM functionality.

Zimphire · Dec 13, 2002, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:

Check again, Batman!

Proteus is king of the multi-IM clients. You and many others might still think it sucks...but almost twice more think it's better.

Er what you mean is, in this forum, a forum where people can have 5 accounts and vote. It shows that there is more Proteus users than ICQ users. Something I find humorous.

That poll doesn't show jack.

The number might be more if the Fire-fanboys decided to give Proteus a try.

I am betting most have. That is why they don't like it. Iknow I have.

Some of you Fire-fanboys probably haven't tried it in a long time and don't know how much it has improved. It's like people on Windows that are ignorant of Macs...they don't want to use it because they're too used to Windows. I say give it a try. You won't really be disappointed...maybe in denial, but not disappointed.

Like I said, I know I try every new Proteus release. I am sure others have too.

Guy Incognito · Dec 13, 2002, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Er what you mean is, in this forum, a forum where people can have 5 accounts and vote. It shows that there is more Proteus users than ICQ users. Something I find humorous. That poll doesn't show jack.

Don't be bitter...MacNN reflects Mac users fairly well, the poll sample was sufficiently large to express real world results.

Start a poll in forums that don't have any apparent bias' and the results will be the same (ie don't start a poll on the Proteus boards or the Fire boards.)

Must suck to be wrong all the time eh, Zimphy?

Zimphire · Dec 13, 2002, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:

Don't be bitter...MacNN reflects Mac users fairly well, the poll sample was sufficiently large to express real world results.

LOL! when you can cheat a poll the poll can NEVER be accurate. That poll DOES NOT reflect anything fairly well.

Start a poll in forums that don't have any apparent bias' and the results will be the same (ie don't start a poll on the Proteus boards or the Fire boards.)

Must suck to be wrong all the time eh, Zimphy?

LOL too bad I am not. Again, that poll doesn't prove anything Guympy. And I just told you why.

If we are to believe that polls in here are accurate that would mean about %20 of the members in here are gay. I saw a poll in here that said so!

Fact is, I can register 20 names and hit the poll 20 times and Proteus will no longer be "winning" And what will that prove? What I have been saying, the polls don't mean anything.

Guy Incognito · Dec 13, 2002, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:

LOL! when you can cheat a poll the poll can NEVER be accurate. That poll DOES NOT reflect anything fairly well.

LOL too bad I am not. Again, that poll doesn't prove anything Guympy. And I just told you why.

If we are to believe that polls in here are accurate that would mean about %20 of the members in here are gay. I saw a poll in here that said so!

Fact is, I can register 20 names and hit the poll 20 times and Proteus will no longer be "winning" And what will that prove? What I have been saying, the polls don't mean anything. [/B]

Are saying this because you cheated the poll? Shame on you!

Zimphire · Dec 13, 2002, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:

Are saying this because you cheated the poll? Shame on you!

Er when did I say that? Are you going to start drooling now?

Guy Incognito · Dec 13, 2002, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Er when did I say that? Are you going to start drooling now?

Well I'm sure nobody thought about cheating until you mentionned it. Is that what always goes on in the back of your mind when there's a poll? Cheating?