Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > OS X.4 quirks from a first-time user

OS X.4 quirks from a first-time user
Thread Tools
mduell
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 24, 2006, 03:20 PM
 
My parents picked up an Intel iMac about a month ago (the $300 2-year-old Dell just wasn't cutting it anymore), and as part of the spring break ritual (i.e. "here's a laundry list of computer questions/problems") I was moving all their data over and showing them how to use it. A few behaviors that dumbfounded them, and me, in no particular order:

Swap - With 5 simulaneous users (who haven't learned that closing windows doesn't close apps) and 512MB RAM (+1GB from Crucial arrives soon), swapping is going to happen on any OS. But how about some indication that we're waiting on the disk? A beachball, a timer, a disk activity light, a bouncing icon, something, anything? It confuses the hell out of new users when they click to switch users or open an app and nothing happens.

Dock - The system of intalling by dragging and dropping from disk images seems like a good enough idea, however it comes out woefully short when you have multiple users: there's no (obvious) way to create a shortcut on every users dock without logging in as each user and dragging/dropping it.

Folders and icons - There's no autoarrange option, so often opening up a folder shows a jumble of icons with no rhyme/reason/organization. Also, some icons will overlap another completely. View->Arrange->Name fixes this, but requires 3 clicks every time I open the folder.

iPhoto sharing - My family has a large collection of photos all stored in one central location on the disk; with MS Digital Image Library, I could open MSDIL for each user and point it to the root photo directory. With iPhoto attempting to do the same results in copying all of the photos to that user's photos folder; this makes it impossible to keep all the users photo collections consistent, and adding new images is a pain (user adds to local, copies to global, every other user must reimport from global, causing dupes if not done carefully, etc.)

iTunes - Same problem as iPhoto... these apps just weren't designed for multi-user environments.

Printers - HP DeskJet 970CXI works fine (well, less the double-sided printing since it's only recognized as a 970C), but the HP LaserJet 3200 doesn't. By default it uses the HP LaserJet 3200 driver, which should work fine? Not even close; printing anything results in pages and pages of garbage text and blank pages. A Google search revealed some success with the HP LaserJet 4 Series gimpprint driver; indeed it works for the first few pages of a document, but the last page of the document never gets printer (it does, however, come out as the first page when another document is printed. Called AppleCare, was told "huh, it shouldn't do that, but I can't help you." I'm hoping an update will fix the driver.

iPod integration - I used my sisters iPod to transfer files from the old Dell to the iMac, and putting them on the iPod from the Dell was easy enough (after enabling disk usage). Plug iPod into iMac, fire up iTunes, decline update (can't update a "Windows" 3G iPod on a Mac without reformatting ), decline to sync (curently empty) music collection with iPod (don't want to nuke all the music already on the iPod), and *poof* the iPod disappears from the destkop. Open iTunes preferences to enable iPod disk usage, only to be thwarted by "No iPod is currently connected to this computer." Durr, lather, rinse, repeat a few times, and finally decide it's not going to let me do anything sane (like get to the preferences menu before it unmounts the iPod. After a few tries I discovered that I could ignore the popups in iTunes and access the mounted volume before declining the update/sync.

iPod integration 2 - Try syncing two iPods with different libraries from different iTunes accounts, automatically? Ha. In my mind it shouldn't be a problem to associate an iPod with a specific user account, but Apple thinks otherwise; the two iPods are constantly being cleared and filled with the other users collection. Current workaround is to have the users close iTunes every time the walk away, but this still leave such simple things as syncing another users iPod with their account while listening to music on your account impossible.

Mighty mouse - Here's another WTF. In general, Apple's hardware design is good; but they're currently on their third generation of absoutely shitty mice. What can I say about the mighty mouse? Terrible tracking, zero-feedback side buttons, terrible tracking, a scroll wheel that makes it impossible to decouple horizontal and vertical movements, and did I mention terrible tracking? Before you say I was using a poor mousing surface, other optical and laser (BTW, for a mouse so recent why isn't it laser based?) work perfectly.

Hopefully you guys (and girls) have some suggestions to work around a few of these; the rest are just rants.
     
nbn22385
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Orlando, FL
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 24, 2006, 03:32 PM
 
For the folders and icons problem, you can try looking in the view options in finder ( +J ) and use "Keep arranged by" and check the snap to grid option.
     
plastiqueusa
Forum Regular
Join Date: Sep 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 24, 2006, 05:52 PM
 
As for printing, have you installed the drivers from HP? I have a Canon which has very basic print options in X until I install the latest drivers--then I get duplex printing and the whole shebang.
( Last edited by plastiqueusa; Mar 24, 2006 at 06:00 PM. )
     
plastiqueusa
Forum Regular
Join Date: Sep 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 24, 2006, 06:00 PM
 
I think a good analogy for swap files is juggling.

Tell them the Mac is like a circus performer, and every time they open up a new program it gets another thing to juggle. It starts off with a small round ball, then you open Safari and it adds a bowling pin, etc. Same goes for logging in extra users without logging out the current one. The juggling's easy with one or two things going at once, but the more 'items' being juggled at once, the slower it will respond to new tasks. Makes sense to me, at least.
     
plastiqueusa
Forum Regular
Join Date: Sep 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 24, 2006, 06:03 PM
 
Installing apps and putting it in every user's dock can be boring, but if you use spotlight to find the app and then open it, you can right-click the icon and ckick "Keep in the Dock". That's the best way I can think of to do that, but it's not a lot better than what you mentioned. Maybe it will be addressed in the next OS with an extra setting for administrators to add certain apps to every user's dock at once.
     
oni
Forum Regular
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Palmy North, New Zealand
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 24, 2006, 07:04 PM
 
in regards to itunes and iphoto sharing, both programs have an option in their prefs to disable copying new files to the users library
     
JKT
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 24, 2006, 07:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
Folders and icons - There's no autoarrange option, so often opening up a folder shows a jumble of icons with no rhyme/reason/organization. Also, some icons will overlap another completely. View->Arrange->Name fixes this, but requires 3 clicks every time I open the folder.
Open a window. Choose View options. By default it will be for All windows (which is bad as it should be for This Window Only as the default IMO...). Choose your view option and all windows with the same view will now display that way (except for those where you have set a This Window Only setting). Do that for each of the display types.



For the Desktop: click the Desktop and choose your view options again (command-J).
     
kcmac
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Kansas City, Mo
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 24, 2006, 07:22 PM
 
What's nice about the dock is that each user only needs in it what they use. My daughter for instance only has Finder, iChat, safari, Mail,iTunes and iPhoto. I have about 25 things in my dock. Of course, you can always add or subtract.

The Mac is a very friendly multi-user environment. Just quit thinking of it like Windows. Have fun.
     
Nai no Kami
Senior User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Buenos Aires
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 25, 2006, 02:48 AM
 
About your claims, I can only add:

Swap - If you have many logged users with some apps open each one and little ram, a fair amount of swapping is what you should expect. As for any indication of swap disk access, there should be no swapping or unnoticeable one if the RAM amounts are fine for the intended tasks.

Dock - Well, the fact that every user can put in it's Dock whatever they want is a benefit and consequence of a multiple user environment. Also a consequence of this is what bothers you.

Folders and icons - This has been addressed by another forum member.

iPhoto sharing - I know this is not very strightforward, but it may help you a little: http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...iphoto+library

iTunes - Doing the same on iTunes is easier. Move the iTunes library to /Users/Shared and then open iTunes>Preferences>Advanced>General and redirect the location lo the Library (on each user, of course). It is possible that other users may have to import (re import) the Library just to see the songs added by other accounts (I share my Library with my wife and I remember having to drag and drop the iTunes Library folder onto iTunes in my wife's account after I added some songs).

Printers - I have also experienced some of this problems with HP printers. Unfortunately, I don't remember how I worked around them (but in the end I could print fine, enabling the duplexing unit and all).

iPod integration - I guess that this is a "make song transfer difficult" thing. You could also give Senuti a shot.

iPod integration 2 - Have you accomplished this on other operative systems?. I think it could be nice to have iTunes independent behavior among users (so to listen in one and sync with other account). I wonder if it could be very resource hogging...

Mighty mouse - I haven't used MM, so I really don't know. It has also happened to me that over the same surface my awful Microsoft mouse (Basic Optical Mouse) tracks OK while a wireless mouse I was gifted tracks not only horrible but jumpy as if it was used by Michael J Fox.

I know I have helped very little.

Y no entienden nada... ¡y cómo se divierten!...
     
mduell  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 27, 2006, 07:38 PM
 
Wow, thanks for all the replies. I don't want to make a half dozen posts to reply to them all, so I'm including them all in one big reply.

nbn22385 - Thanks.

plastiqueusa - I installed the drivers that are included with OS X 10.4.5. The drivers for OSX from HP are dated 2001 (and only available on CD ), so I assume the same or more recent drivers are included in an OS released in 2006.

plastiqueusa - I'm well aware of what swap is and why it's used, tut there is no indication that the user interface is waiting on the disk. It confuses users when they click an icon and nothing happens for 20 seconds.

plastiqueusa - Coming from the Windows world, I'm used to having an "All users" folder for start menu/quicklaunch/desktop items.

oni - Thanks for pointing that out. I'm still running into a problem where when one user adds photos/music to the shared folder, other users don't see the new items in iPhoto/iTunes. I'm hoping there is some option like MSDIL and WMP have, where can both monitor folders for new files.

Nai no Kami - I did expect there to be quite a bit of swapping; what I didn't expect was that there would be no indication that swapping was occuring (like a bouncing icon, beachball, timer, etc). I've upgrade to 1.5GB RAM as a workaround.
Thanks for the iPhoto tip, but the iTunes tip won't work so well. iTunes appears to be braindead when adding folders to the library, and songs that already exist in the library will be duplicated in the library.
     
plastiqueusa
Forum Regular
Join Date: Sep 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 27, 2006, 08:05 PM
 
You didn't find the drivers on the HP website? You can usually find drivers in the support area of a major company site.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 27, 2006, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
I did expect there to be quite a bit of swapping; what I didn't expect was that there would be no indication that swapping was occuring (like a bouncing icon, beachball, timer, etc).
There's no beach ball in that situation because the beach ball appears when an application stalls, and it's not the application's fault for slowness during heavy swapping. Another great reason not to have an indicator is that it would just infuriate users. Getting a larger amount of RAM is not a workaround for that issue, it's the solution.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Nai no Kami
Senior User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Buenos Aires
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 12:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
...iTunes appears to be braindead when adding folders to the library, and songs that already exist in the library will be duplicated in the library.
It appears to work for me. I should also point out that my (our) library is consolidated and the option to copy when adding to library is checked. I have no dupes whatsoever, but sometimes -as I said- if I add songs my wife must drag and drop the iTunes Music folder in order to make the new titles available for her. This procedure does not generate dupes for us.

Y no entienden nada... ¡y cómo se divierten!...
     
Brass
Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 12:45 AM
 
Swap - there is a spinning beachball type of cursor that should appear whenever an application is unresponsive for more than 2 seconds or so. Leaving lots of applications open in Mac OS X should not be a big deal (depending on how well behaved the apps are when idle). In what way are they unresponsive? what are you doing to try to get some response from them?

Dock - The dock is configurable by each user. It is generally bad practice to change somebody else's dock! This is not nice. Therefore there is no easy way to do it. It is very simple for people to add new applications to their own Dock, and it is their own responsibility to do so.

Folders and Icons - Try using column view. Most people (or at least many people) find that it is far superior to using the icon view or list view. That said, this is entirely subjective. It certainly makes arranging unnecessary, and makes navigation very simple. Having said that, icon view should work better. It's one of the Finder's many flaws.

iPhoto - It is not made for sharing it's database among multiple users. Same as Address Book, iTunes, etc. Although there are work arounds, and third part applications to help you do it, if you really want to. Apple need to make this a lot easier (especially for Address Book, for me at least). This sort of thing really ought to be easy to do on a shared family computer.
     
jamil5454
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Downtown Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 01:43 AM
 
It's hard to believe HP doesn't have recent OS X drivers for the LaserJet 3200 available for download on their website, but I checked and they indeed do not. However, my cheap All-in-one PSC 1315 seems pretty well supported.
     
TheTraveller
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: California, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 01:50 AM
 
I love my mighty mouse! I love the scrollball. I have no problems with it at all. Yeah, the right click, left click is a bit weird I guess, but it works pretty well for me. And tracking isn't an issue for me, it seems to do a fine job of that too.
     
mduell  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 02:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by plastiqueusa
You didn't find the drivers on the HP website? You can usually find drivers in the support area of a major company site.
They're there, available on CD only, and dated 22 Mar 2001. OSX lists support for the LaserJet 3200 and should include 5 year old drivers by now!

Originally Posted by Big Mac
There's no beach ball in that situation because the beach ball appears when an application stalls, and it's not the application's fault for slowness during heavy swapping. Another great reason not to have an indicator is that it would just infuriate users. Getting a larger amount of RAM is not a workaround for that issue, it's the solution.
An indication that nothing is happening because the OS is swapping would infuriate users? No, just the opposite! Users become very confused when they click something (like a program in the dock or to switch users) and nothing happens on screen after 20 seconds.

Originally Posted by Brass
Swap - there is a spinning beachball type of cursor that should appear whenever an application is unresponsive for more than 2 seconds or so. Leaving lots of applications open in Mac OS X should not be a big deal (depending on how well behaved the apps are when idle). In what way are they unresponsive? what are you doing to try to get some response from them?

Dock - The dock is configurable by each user. It is generally bad practice to change somebody else's dock! This is not nice. Therefore there is no easy way to do it. It is very simple for people to add new applications to their own Dock, and it is their own responsibility to do so.
It's not an application problem, it's an OS/UI problem. The user doesn't get any feedback that the computer is working on their latest click. On many PCs there is at least a HD activity indicator light, which can be used indirectly for this purpose.

That's all well and good for you, but not how my users want it. Digging around in the hard drive to find an app that was just installed by another user seems rather clumsy to them (and me).
     
ism
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 03:28 AM
 
Personally I hardly ever touch the start menu on windows. I have all the apps I use in a Quick Launch Toolbar (It's my dock).

Pre-Tiger I used an Applications folder in my dock to get to all the apps not in my dock. Now it's quicker to use spotlight. I don't like it on my mac when installers add the app to my dock (or other users' docks), but if you want this behaviour, this hint may be of some help and will save logging in and out of each user account: http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...50713192614308
     
JKT
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 07:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
They're there, available on CD only, and dated 22 Mar 2001. OSX lists support for the LaserJet 3200 and should include 5 year old drivers by now!
Have you tried using the gimpprint/gutenprint drivers instead? They may work better for that printer than the HP ones.
An indication that nothing is happening because the OS is swapping would infuriate users? No, just the opposite! Users become very confused when they click something (like a program in the dock or to switch users) and nothing happens on screen after 20 seconds.

It's not an application problem, it's an OS/UI problem. The user doesn't get any feedback that the computer is working on their latest click. On many PCs there is at least a HD activity indicator light, which can be used indirectly for this purpose.
You could try installing the freeware Memory Monitor (a dockling) that shows memory usage and paging in real time.
That's all well and good for you, but not how my users want it. Digging around in the hard drive to find an app that was just installed by another user seems rather clumsy to them (and me).
Well, personally I believe it is better that people learn how to use their computer rather than having absolutely everything spoon fed to them, but here is a workaround that should work:

Put a folder in Shared and name it "New Apps" or something. Put it in everyone's Dock. Whenever you install a new app, put an alias for that app in that folder. Hey presto, everyone now has that app in their "New Apps" folder in their Dock.
     
lookmark
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 12:15 PM
 
By and large, good criticisms. You know now about the global setting for View Options, and personally, I really like the MM (except for the silly side squeezy buttons) and find the tracking completely unproblematic, but otherwise, I agree with a lot of your complaints.

Half of your complaints involve multiple users, and this is an area where OS X could and should be much better.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by lookmark
Half of your complaints involve multiple users, and this is an area where OS X could and should be much better.
There's nothing wrong with multiple users in OS X - it functions at the OS level as it should. Some programs should be more intelligent about optionally sharing their resources across the users on the system, but that's not an OS issue.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
lookmark
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 12:22 PM
 
Yeah, I mean to say iLife (sharing media across multiple users) + the OS (set-up of user settings across multiple users in particular) could both be better.
     
Brass
Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 06:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
It's not an application problem, it's an OS/UI problem. The user doesn't get any feedback that the computer is working on their latest click. On many PCs there is at least a HD activity indicator light, which can be used indirectly for this purpose.
I'm still not sure I understand the exact problem. I always get all the feedback I need. When I click on a new application in the dock, it bounces. When I click on an already open application (in the dock, or on an open window), it comes to front instantly, and the menubar instantly shows the change in front-most application. When for some reason the OS/Application is not able to respond immediately, I get a spinning beachball cursor. You need to explain (to me at least), exactly what action is not providing appropriate feedback.


That's all well and good for you, but not how my users want it. Digging around in the hard drive to find an app that was just installed by another user seems rather clumsy to them (and me).
I think this is simply a matter of mind-set. When you change operating systems, you should not expect any particular thing to be the same. This is one thing where the operating system works differently, and the difference is a GOOD thing, at least from some perspectives. "Digging around in the hard drive" is not the big deal you make it sound like. It's simply a matter of opening the applications folder (the easiest way of doing this is a single press of SHIFT-CMD-A), and then dragging the application from there to the dock. If you keep that folder in column-view, then it's trivially easy to find the thing. On the other hand, having some other user change anything on my dock would be offensive and obstructive to me. It's a different operating system. You need to get used to working in a different way. One way is not necessarily better than the other - they both have pros and cons - they are just different.
     
Brass
Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
On many PCs there is at least a HD activity indicator light, which can be used indirectly for this purpose.
BTW, using the HD activity led on a PC for anything other than indicating HD activity is flawed. It does NOT necessarily indicate that the PC is responding to your action. Although it USUALLY does correspond, it would be unwise to really use it for this. HD activity happens frequently at random (the OS or applications doing background tasks, etc). Assuming that this activity is related to your last click is not necessarily reliable. If you want this kind of feedback, then just listen to your HD on the Mac. I can always hear the HD when it is doing something. I don't need an indicator light to see it. But either way, in is not an appropriate form of feedback that the system is responding to my actions.
     
mduell  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 07:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by JKT
Have you tried using the gimpprint/gutenprint drivers instead? They may work better for that printer than the HP ones.
Yes:
Originally Posted by mduell
A Google search revealed some success with the HP LaserJet 4 Series gimpprint driver; indeed it works for the first few pages of a document, but the last page of the document never gets printer (it does, however, come out as the first page when another document is printed).
Originally Posted by Brass
I'm still not sure I understand the exact problem. I always get all the feedback I need. When I click on a new application in the dock, it bounces. When I click on an already open application (in the dock, or on an open window), it comes to front instantly, and the menubar instantly shows the change in front-most application. When for some reason the OS/Application is not able to respond immediately, I get a spinning beachball cursor. You need to explain (to me at least), exactly what action is not providing appropriate feedback.
Consider the following two scenarios:
1) User B sits down to use the computer while User A is logged in. User B clicks on the user menu (upper right corner of the screen), points to their name, and clicks. Nothing happens.
2) User points to a program icon in the dock, clicks, and nothing happens.

In both cases, the system is unable to immediately switch users or open the application because its swapping. However the user has no indication that the system is working in the background (no change in pointer shape, no boucing icon, etc), and may think they misclicked or hit the wrong button. The user may then attempt to repeat the action, and becomes even more confused when nothing happens again.

Originally Posted by Brass
BTW, using the HD activity led on a PC for anything other than indicating HD activity is flawed. It does NOT necessarily indicate that the PC is responding to your action. Although it USUALLY does correspond, it would be unwise to really use it for this. HD activity happens frequently at random (the OS or applications doing background tasks, etc). Assuming that this activity is related to your last click is not necessarily reliable. If you want this kind of feedback, then just listen to your HD on the Mac. I can always hear the HD when it is doing something. I don't need an indicator light to see it. But either way, in is not an appropriate form of feedback that the system is responding to my actions.
On a system that I know is short on RAM (and thus probably swapping), it is useful to tell users that if the disk light is on steady when they expect something to happen, that they need to wait a moment until the disk light is not on steady anymore.
You can call if flawed if you'd like, but it works.
     
Brass
Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 08:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
Yes:



Consider the following two scenarios:
1) User B sits down to use the computer while User A is logged in. User B clicks on the user menu (upper right corner of the screen), points to their name, and clicks. Nothing happens.
2) User points to a program icon in the dock, clicks, and nothing happens.

In both cases, the system is unable to immediately switch users or open the application because its swapping. However the user has no indication that the system is working in the background (no change in pointer shape, no boucing icon, etc), and may think they misclicked or hit the wrong button. The user may then attempt to repeat the action, and becomes even more confused when nothing happens again.



On a system that I know is short on RAM (and thus probably swapping), it is useful to tell users that if the disk light is on steady when they expect something to happen, that they need to wait a moment until the disk light is not on steady anymore.
You can call if flawed if you'd like, but it works.
The solution here is quite simple, and again, it is a simple matter of changing the mind set when changing OS. Computers do not always do everything instantly. In an ideal world they would, but we do not have an ideal world. Just get used to the fact that some things take time, and do not expect an instant result every time. If it does take an unreasonable amount of time, then you WILL get visual feedback (the spinning cursor). You just need to adjust your perception of what is a reasonable amount of time (or perhaps Apple does ).

Yes, this is not a perfect system, but it never causes me (or many others) any problems. It's just a matter of mind-set. Yes, Apple should perhaps improve it to show the spinning cursor immediately, but it's not really that big a deal, once you understand what's going on.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 08:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
Consider the following two scenarios:
1) User B sits down to use the computer while User A is logged in. User B clicks on the user menu (upper right corner of the screen), points to their name, and clicks. Nothing happens.
2) User points to a program icon in the dock, clicks, and nothing happens.

In both cases, the system is unable to immediately switch users or open the application because its swapping.
If a currently logged in user is experiencing that kind of UI delay, there's something wrong with the system. The only time a substantial amount of swapping is acceptable is during a user switch under low memory conditions. If that much swapping is happening during a normal workflow, there are either far too many applications open or there is a malfunction of some sort.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Brass
Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 28, 2006, 08:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Brass
The solution here is quite simple, and again, it is a simple matter of changing the mind set when changing OS. Computers do not always do everything instantly. In an ideal world they would, but we do not have an ideal world. Just get used to the fact that some things take time, and do not expect an instant result every time. If it does take an unreasonable amount of time, then you WILL get visual feedback (the spinning cursor). You just need to adjust your perception of what is a reasonable amount of time (or perhaps Apple does ).

Yes, this is not a perfect system, but it never causes me (or many others) any problems. It's just a matter of mind-set. Yes, Apple should perhaps improve it to show the spinning cursor immediately, but it's not really that big a deal, once you understand what's going on.
BTW, it may be worth pointing out that the spinning cursor only appears when it is over the application that is not responding. In most circumstances, this is a good thing, because it makes it clear that you can continue using one application, while another application is completely locked up for some reason. However, in the situation you described, it makes it more difficult to see what's going on. If you move the cursor over the menu again (ie, re-try selecting the command) it should then change to the spinning cursor immediately. Yes, this is not ideal, but it works well for most situations.
     
yticolev
Forum Regular
Join Date: May 2002
Location: MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 29, 2006, 01:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
On many PCs there is at least a HD activity indicator light, which can be used indirectly for this purpose.
I've never been a PC user except occasionally at work and I like the indicator lights for the exact same reason as you. There are a number of programs that will show you hard disk activity and I've been using them since I believe System 6 (Disklight back then). On OS X, I use MenuMeters, a completely free program that adds indicators to the menu bar. There is a CPU meter, a disk activity meter, a memory meter, and a network activity meter. All have options for viewing. I would have a tough time living without such feedback.
http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/menumeters/

I've never used user switching so I don't know what goes on there. I'm a little surprised that there is no feedback at all. You might try having the Activity Monitor open when you switch users to see if that gives you a clue as to what is happening to slow you down.
     
JKT
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 29, 2006, 06:36 AM
 
Wrt to Gimp print - did you download the latest version? Either the last stable version (Gimp print 4. something or other) or the latest "unstable" version (which is GutenPrint 5. something or other)?

The freeware Dockling I pointed you too will show when heavy swapping is occurring so if you want o check, a quick glance at your dock will tell you:

     
JKT
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 29, 2006, 06:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by yticolev
I've never used user switching so I don't know what goes on there. I'm a little surprised that there is no feedback at all. You might try having the Activity Monitor open when you switch users to see if that gives you a clue as to what is happening to slow you down.
There is plenty of feedback when switching user, the issue mduell is describing is the lack of UI feedback when the system stalls due to excessive paging which is evidently being triggered when attempting to switch with too little RAM.
     
power142
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 29, 2006, 04:57 PM
 
...the solution to which is to increase the amount of physical RAM
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:58 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,