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Knof8 · Jul 25, 2002, 11:33 PM

Okay so you're saying there is a God, when you made the statement about him/her creating all those people and then allowing most of them to burn in hell if they didn't believe in God. First off, if you're going to follow that line well you have to remember God also gave humans Freedom of Choice. SO... it's not God's fault if so many people don't follow his teachings. He's not the one condemning them to hell. He put out his teachings and it's up to each individual as to whether or not they'll follow them, and the results that happen from their decisions. Now if you want to say there is no God, because you don't believe in one, well that's your personal opinion and not something that criticizing Christianity will help you to change rather it will only entrench it. Of course if you want to claim predestination because God is such a prick then well you were screwed to begin with and he purposely set it up so you would act this way, and you're merely following God's plan for you. Sucks to be you then, since you would hate for that to be the case I'm sure.

And no matter what there will hardly ever be anything you will completely agree with. Especially something so expansive as any religion or culture, etc. A specific car (the Neon for you) might be something you can completely get behind, but most of the rest of us can't. You see past the flaws others bring up. Then you'll flame them for saying the car sux etc etc. Open your mind and try not to be so judgemental. Then you'd be closer to being like Jesus

Vader�s Pinch of Death · Jul 26, 2002, 03:13 AM

Catholics are just selfish cowards. They only worship God so they get into heaven. They don't give a sh�t about giving thanks other then for personal gain.

Knof8 · Jul 26, 2002, 04:56 AM

Vader's Pinch wrote
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Catholics are just selfish cowards. They only worship God so they get into heaven. They don't give a sh�t about giving thanks other then for personal gain.<hr /></blockquote>So I'm guessing then you've met every single Catholic in the World and every single one of them came out this way?

Oh and of course if you only do things for yourself, that automatically means your a Catholic. Well, guess every single American is Catholic in the eyes of every other nation in the world; since we only do things for our own goals.

driven · Jul 26, 2002, 09:06 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
Catholics are just selfish cowards. They only worship God so they get into heaven. They don't give a sh�t about giving thanks other then for personal gain.<hr /></blockquote>What a self-rightous arrogant statement.

Again I'll ask:
Why is it ok for you all to take pot-shots and make hate speech at Christians and Catholics, whereas you know it would be unacceptable to do so for nearly any other ethnic, religious or racial group?

Most of you are liberals. Isn't this precisely what you fought so hard to prevent?

Timo · Jul 26, 2002, 09:42 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:

Most of you are liberals. Isn't this precisely what you fought so hard to prevent?<hr /></blockquote>Don't confuse the issue. Vader et al isn't a liberal, he's a nihilist and a damned ill-informed one to boot.

Zimphire · Jul 26, 2002, 01:11 PM

I have really never seen so many rabid baseless statements by anti-god zealots before,

Really guys, if you are going to BASH God or the Bible, know what you are talking about.

Vader�s Pinch of Death · Jul 26, 2002, 01:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Knof8:
Vader's Pinch wrote
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Catholics are just selfish cowards. They only worship God so they get into heaven. They don't give a sh�t about giving thanks other then for personal gain.<hr /></blockquote>So I'm guessing then you've met every single Catholic in the World and every single one of them came out this way?

Oh and of course if you only do things for yourself, that automatically means your a Catholic. Well, guess every single American is Catholic in the eyes of every other nation in the world; since we only do things for our own goals.<hr /></blockquote>Na the Curches also do it to make money and get ahold of 12 year olds.

Zimphire · Jul 26, 2002, 01:35 PM

VPOD needs to remove his head from his rear, he is seriously losing any little credibility he ever had.

Vader�s Pinch of Death · Jul 26, 2002, 01:41 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Zimphire:
VPOD needs to remove his head from his rear, he is seriously losing any little credibility he ever had.<hr /></blockquote>Ah the Catholics are losing faith in me

Why go on?

Zimphire · Jul 26, 2002, 01:43 PM

Let me clue you in on something else, not all Christians = Catholics. Thanks again for showing your rear.

Vader�s Pinch of Death · Jul 26, 2002, 01:58 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Zimphire:
Let me clue you in on something else, not all Christians = Catholics. Thanks again for showing your rear.<hr /></blockquote>Hey you showed your fag hating rear in the other thread so now we are even

Zimphire · Jul 26, 2002, 02:04 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
Hey you showed your fag hating rear in the other thread so now we are even

[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>*knee jerk*

More baseless accusations Darth? I see you are full of them today.

I don't hate homosexuals.

Chuckmcd · Jul 26, 2002, 02:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Zimphire:
Let me clue you in on something else, not all Christians = Catholics. Thanks again for showing your rear.<hr /></blockquote>Hey you showed your fag hating rear in the other thread so now we are even

<hr /></blockquote>Though I don't know him, form his posts I'm guessing Zimphire doesn't hate "fags", simply thinks the homosexual lifestyle isn't right. I feel the same way, I know several people who do things I think are wrong, but I still care for them. There is a big difference between hating the sin and hating the sinner.

I also like that when it's pointed out that it only seems okay bash the Christian point of view that it's called "clouding the issue".

Zimphire · Jul 26, 2002, 02:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Chuckmcd:
Though I don't know him, form his posts I'm guessing Zimphire doesn't hate "fags", simply thinks the homosexual lifestyle isn't right. I feel the same way, I know several people who do things I think are wrong, but I still care for them. There is a big difference between hating the sin and hating the sinner.<hr /></blockquote>Ah someone who gets it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
I also like that when it's pointed out that it only seems okay bash the Christian point of view that it's called "clouding the issue".<hr /></blockquote>Sign of the times.

Vader�s Pinch of Death · Jul 26, 2002, 02:26 PM

Yawn, get off the forums and go to church.

Ca$h68 · Jul 26, 2002, 02:28 PM

Or molest a child....

- Ca$h

Chuckmcd · Jul 26, 2002, 02:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
Yawn, get off the forums and go to church.<hr /></blockquote>I'm not trying to preach just making a point. You equate someone's feelings about an act with their feelins about a person. If you're married you should understand that's nuts! I love my wife, but there are things she does that I can't stand. I still love my wife.

As far as the child molestation. I'm not Catholic and I try to stay away from the whole denomination. I saw a news report of thousands of people flocking to the Pope last night to bow before him... interveiwees calling him the "Holy Father". I don't see ANYTHING Biblical that would justify that, and I could come up with a few passages that would seem to warn against such behavoir.

neilnet · Jul 26, 2002, 03:00 PM

Ca$h - A few questions if I may.

Why did you start this thread? Was it to annoy Christians on the board? To gain some knowledge of something? To share something you considered amusing?

IMO - It's a sick thread. Your use of just a few small snippets of the Bible do *not* add to your stature on the boards and the sheer number of Christians that responded highlights the fact that your views are not popular. I'm led to believe that some of your other views (car choice perhaps?) are not popular either.

Now, Christians have been instructed to go out and change the world and as such consider it their duty to influence others with their views. You however appear to have posted this only to inflate your own ego - and since your post met such opposition, your ego has not benefitted.

As such, do everyone a favour and think twice before posting something that offends others.

Zimphire · Jul 26, 2002, 03:33 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
Yawn, get off the forums and go to church.<hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Or molest a child....

- Ca$h<hr /></blockquote>If this is the voice of the new generation, be afraid.

Knof8 · Jul 26, 2002, 10:26 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Zimphire:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Vader’s Pinch of Death:
Yawn, get off the forums and go to church.<hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Or molest a child....
- Ca$h<hr /></blockquote>If this is the voice of the new generation, be afraid.<hr /></blockquote>Nope; it's just a bunch of people who have to lump everyone from one group together. So I guess all blacks are ghetto and should only live in the projects occassionally getting out to play major sports. Whites are the supreme race and all others are inferior. All Muslims are just terrorists to go against the US, etc etc. Would hate to think within a group there could be some diversity.

Oh and Cash you can get counseling for when you got molested. It's okay but don't take it out on everyone else.

Millennium · Jul 27, 2002, 12:31 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Chuckmcd:
Though I don't know him, form his posts I'm guessing Zimphire doesn't hate "fags", simply thinks the homosexual lifestyle isn't right. I feel the same way, I know several people who do things I think are wrong, but I still care for them. There is a big difference between hating the sin and hating the sinner.<hr /></blockquote>As I posted in another thread, most people don't understand this. They think that the two necessarily go hand in hand; you can neither love nor hate one without feeling the same for the other. And indeed, it can be very difficult to keep them separate. Most who try don't succeed.

By the way, Ca$h, I have to say I'm amused at this. Even most fundamentalists are less literalist about the Bible than you are. But then, since you seem to be mindlessly parroting one particular Website's viewpoint, I suppose I can see that. You accuse Christians of letting others think for them, when you've done exactly the same thing. As long as you let the SAB site be your infallible priest, you'll never really find your own understanding.

My challenge still stands. Read the Bible once through, cover to cover, consulting no one else, not the SAB, not these boards, not me, not anyone. Come to a set of opinions entirely on your own, taking as much time as you need to form some kind of coherent sense out of the thing. Whether or not you agree with what you find isn't important; what matters is that your opinions are yours and yours alone. Then go and see what others have to say about it. Compare notes. Argue. Compromise and modify, if you feel that to be appropriate. And perhaps, in the end, your opinion will be the same as it is now. That's fine, but at least then it will be your opinion.

Or, if you think this will take too long, then do it one book at a time, instead.

Vader�s Pinch of Death · Jul 27, 2002, 01:52 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Knof8:
[QUOTE]Nope; it's just a bunch of people who have to lump everyone from one group together. So I guess all blacks are ghetto and should only live in the projects occassionally getting out to play major sports.<hr /></blockquote>Na they are fine, just Bible thumpers are messed up.

Ca$h68 · Jul 29, 2002, 04:20 PM

Review: If you NEED a book to tell you how to be a good person, and you don't have any morals yourself, or perhaps you enjoy a good read dealing with torture, death, destruction, rape, genocide, contradictions, and other such Mayhem, the bible is for YOU.

- Ca$h

Zimphire · Jul 29, 2002, 05:12 PM

Hey neons are good cars.

I've owned one since 97, no problems.

Lerkfish · Jul 29, 2002, 05:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Review: If you NEED a book to tell you how to be a good person, and you don't have any morals yourself, or perhaps you enjoy a good read dealing with torture, death, destruction, rape, genocide, contradictions, and other such Mayhem, the bible is for YOU.

- Ca$h<hr /></blockquote>Thanks. I'll keep mine. Unfortunately for you, you missed all the good parts. You made the same mistake several religious fanatics make, that the book the book is rigid and its meaning one dimensional.

God created us as individuals, not cookie cutter copies. Even who we are changes as we grow older or experience various things. In other words, we are spiritually fluid and malleable (some more than others). At any given point in our life our spiritual needs and maturity may be different than at any other point.

So�would God give us teachings or a bible that is static and rigid? In fact, he didnt.
The bible is a work that is multidimensional, has multiple meanings and overlaying meanings. Many mistake that multiplicity of meaning to be contradiction, but actually its just complexity. As long as you take it one-dimensionally, rigid and static in its purpose, you will always miss the point by a mile.

The bible is like a river, which if one looks in at one point will see themselves reflected. As the person changes, what they see reflected will also change. If the person is full of hatred and whatnot, that is what they will see and take away from it. Also like a river, it does not always mean the same thing at different points for the observer. Sometimes there is turbulence and it becomes difficult to see.

As a for instance, I have read the book of Job probably 30 times in my life, and depending on my own life experiences, it has meant something different to me. It is a perplexing book, which raises as many questions as it answers if not more...and THAT is the purpose of the bible, to elicit from the reader contemplation of questions. It is not so much as a checklist of absolutes as it is a way to focus the contemplation of the individual to arrive at their own revelations.

If you truly seek to understand the bible, it requires a thorough reading, in order and in context. Once read that way, if you are open to it, the mosaic of meanings can become more clear. You can see that the meaning of meaning is what directs you in your contemplation.

I don't seek to change your mind at all because I predicted this would be the outcome of your search for truth because of what was in your heart and what you wanted to find. Very limited, very shallow, very hateful and very judgemental (I'm referring to the nature of your search here, not you personally). That is what your limited search reflected back to you.

The sad error that has been made through the ages is that people use books like the bible as a rigid mold they try to force people into, instead of realizing it is an owner's manual for the soul, a way to examine one's beliefs and doubts, and to come out of the experience a more enlightened person. It is meant to be a guide not a torture device.

Can you find horrible things in the bible? why yes, of course. Can you find horrible things in life? why yes of course...that is why it is an owner's manual for life. If the book completelly ignored man's tendency for depravity and pretended it didn't exist in some pollyanaish delusion, then it would have no relevance or validity and would indeed be a fairy tale. Real life is not pretty. People are killed for the stupidest reasons. The bible is sort of a reflection of life as well.

But you can find wonderful things in the bible also, truly beautiful faithful and righteous people....and selfless love. If you read it like a hunting trip you will only catch the beast you were after and ignore the rest of the forest.

If you TRULY want to investigate, cash, I suggest reading it cover to cover with an open mind and make your own conclusions. I would even challenge you to do so, but I cannot make you do so, nor would I dream of it.

thanks for letting me post my opinion.

Zimphire · Jul 29, 2002, 05:24 PM

While I don't agree with some of Lerk's subjectiveness about the Bible, I do believe he answered Ca$h's thread relatively well.

But Ca$H will continue with his broad generalizations. And Ca$h will probably continue to be made fun of.

BTW Ca$h I will race your Neon with mine? Wanna go for it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

j/k

V · Jul 30, 2002, 02:06 AM

OK tougher one:

How do you guys deal with major science breakthrough, like darwinism, evolutionism?

Scientist that can induce mystic and religious experience by simulating some parts of the brain, or by inoculation a certain drugs?

Facts that religion proliferate in neighborhoods, regions and countries where the population is poor and less educated?

Church, religious institutions and preachers that are very rich and broadcast very suspect messages?

Lerkfish · Jul 30, 2002, 08:42 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
OK tougher one:

How do you guys deal with major science breakthrough, like darwinism, evolutionism?<hr /></blockquote>(this reads as a litany to indict, have several axes to grind, do we? Ready to pounce as soon as we say something to this trollbait you disagree with? no matter, I'll sincerely answer your questions, even if not posed sincerely)

We've had lengthy threads on evolution and darwinism here, if you do a search you can find my view. In a nutshell, I deal with it by believing anything science is able to prove....why not? This is a physical empirical world and science is the study of it. I believe God created everything, and whatever science discovers is included in "everything". In other words, I believe everything in this world. I just happen to also believe there is a reality in addition to the one scientists believe in.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
Scientist that can induce mystic and religious experience by simulating some parts of the brain, or by inoculation a certain drugs?<hr /></blockquote>That's very interesting. (what is the response you were waiting to pounce on here?)
not much to say to that, except you need to define "mystic" or "religious". If you mean the emotional afferent, no doubt there is a chemical basis for that. If you mean enlightenment, I don't think even secular enlightenment can be induced chemically. Sorry, no need to respond to this except that its interesting. What is your point?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
Facts that religion proliferate in neighborhoods, regions and countries where the population is poor and less educated?<hr /></blockquote>Yawn. I assume your troll here is that only less educated or stupid people are religious? How about: only less educated people post trollbait like this claiming "facts" without backing them up in anyway, as if merely using the word "fact" proves their argument. Frankly, this one doesn't require a response.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
Church, religious institutions and preachers that are very rich and broadcast very suspect messages?<hr /></blockquote>Yawn. What churches, how rich, and what "suspect" messages? Honestly, since these trolls are too vague to adequately respond to credibly, I conclude they must be rhetorical trollbait, because you thought the sheer intellect displayed on your part was enough to make your point. Too bad you encountered an intelligent, well-educated christian. tsk, tsk.

Timo · Jul 30, 2002, 09:37 AM

Hey V, play nice, or don't play at all.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 30, 2002, 10:07 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lerkfish:
I just happen to also believe there is a reality in addition to the one scientists believe in.<hr /></blockquote>Just a quick note: scientists != atheists !

It is no coincidence that many scientists (physicists in particular) become more and more religious/spiritual the deeper involved they get. There is such an innate beauty in the complexity of our universe and its structures and mechanisms that it is easier and easier to believe in design the more one knows.

This in no way contradicts any of the later scientific theories; to the contrary.

(There are, of course, also atheistic or agnostic scientists; my point is merely that science and spirituality are in no way mutually exclusive.)

-spheric*

Lerkfish · Jul 30, 2002, 10:32 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lerkfish:
I just happen to also believe there is a reality in addition to the one scientists believe in.<hr /></blockquote>Just a quick note: scientists != atheists !

It is no coincidence that many scientists (physicists in particular) become more and more religious/spiritual the deeper involved they get. There is such an innate beauty in the complexity of our universe and its structures and mechanisms that it is easier and easier to believe in design the more one knows.

This in no way contradicts any of the later scientific theories; to the contrary.

(There are, of course, also atheistic or agnostic scientists; my point is merely that science and spirituality are in no way mutually exclusive.)

-spheric*<hr /></blockquote>thanks, good correction.

Ca$h68 · Jul 30, 2002, 10:56 AM

So god created all of us eh? Then aren't we all the sons of god? Also, since the first testament (which Jesus backs up) talks about gay people being sinners (actually all humans), doesnt that mean that god created gay people just to go to hell? That doesn't make sense. Course, neither does the fact that Jesus admits that only a small percentage of us will go to heaven, the majority of us will burn in hell. Yay. Way to go god, you created most of us to go to hell. Cool. God also punishes people who THINK, instead of blindly following something. There has been no PROOF or Evidence of god, or most things in the bible (before you jump on me, yes some EVENTS really did happen, but there's no proof that moses parted the red seas, and theres no proof that jesus ressurrected himself), so if you don't believe in him (due to lack of ANY evidence what so ever ) you too shall also suffer eternal damnation. So basically he only lets in the sheep who never think for themselves, punishes anybody who needs evidence to believe, and sends all the good natured people who happen to be in a different country following a different religon straight to hell.

- Ca$h

denim · Jul 30, 2002, 11:01 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
How do you guys deal with major science breakthrough, like darwinism, evolutionism?<hr /></blockquote>Not a problem. Who says that these are not God's tools? Whoever says it is putting limits on what God is allowed to do, which strikes me as blasphamy at worst, and silly at best.

V · Jul 30, 2002, 11:09 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lerkfish:
Honestly, since these trolls are too vague to adequately respond to credibly, I conclude they must be rhetorical trollbait, because you thought the sheer intellect displayed on your part was enough to make your point. Too bad you encountered an intelligent, well-educated christian. tsk, tsk.[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>If you were really so well educated, your would surely know what I'm talking about.

You live in USA? If you do you know what I'm talking about, you just deny it, it's there you can find the best specimen. I don't live there but echos of this come regulary to my hears:

Jerry Vines, of the powerful Southern Baptist convention (16 millions followers) attacking Islam and saying about mahomet : "A pedophile possessed by demon" !!!!!! (Ha'aretz)

You know Chris Okotie? Studied theology in Oklahoma, went to Africa and created "L'Eglise du foyer de Dieu". Dressed in black (t-shirt, jeans and basket) and go around with his thousands of (stupid) followers in his shinny mercedes surrounded by big black body guards armed with guns and Walkies-talkies. (New York Times)

Too rich: Vatican (too easy), hazardous messages: You know the kind of religious organisations formed mostly by wife and sometimes by friends of governors and senators? We own them warnings like "explicits lyrics" on music albums, the best they could get in their crusade for censorship. (lately they try to forbid Harry Potter!!!!). they always want to banned everythings, decide what is bad (evil) and what is good.

You know what I'm talking about! Come on!

You said that you deal well with science? So how do you deal with people who wants to teach the bible way about human creation (le jardin d'eden!!!) in school and shut up about evolutionism? (isn't W Bush once said he consented to that?)

Please don't attack me personally, it's only a debate, not a war, and it bring nothing to your points. Thanks

V · Jul 30, 2002, 11:14 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by denim:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
How do you guys deal with major science breakthrough, like darwinism, evolutionism?<hr /></blockquote>Not a problem. Who says that these are not God's tools? Whoever says it is putting limits on what God is allowed to do, which strikes me as blasphamy at worst, and silly at best.<hr /></blockquote>Sorry, it's because we are talking about the limits of the Bible here. We know about God's omniscience, thanks

Lerkfish · Jul 30, 2002, 11:23 AM

cash, I'd suggest you do more research. You have some fairly inaccurate notions of what is in the bible.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
So god created all of us eh? Then aren't we all the sons of god?<hr /></blockquote>Absolutely correct. Jesus even states that we are all sons of god...in fact he goes further and quotes the old testament where it says "ye are all gods".
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Also, since the first testament (which Jesus backs up) talks about gay people being sinners (actually all humans), doesnt that mean that god created gay people just to go to hell?<hr /></blockquote>actually, Jesus never mentions homosexuals, and in fact the entire bible rarely mentions homosexuals at all (just as an interesting aside).
You've also missed the entire point of the new testament if you think we were created to go to "hell" (hell is a bizarre concept not supported by scripture, which has been endlessly explained to you), or that Jesus was sent here to die so we could go to hell. Try to think of the opposite of that notion and you'll be on course.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
That doesn't make sense.<hr /></blockquote>Of course it doesn't make sense, because its flat wrong and your misassumption. So, yes, YOU don't make sense.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Course, neither does the fact that Jesus admits that only a small percentage of us will go to heaven, the majority of us will burn in hell. Yay. Way to go god, you created most of us to go to hell.<hr /></blockquote>hell again. are you incapable of listening to other people when they talk to you? apparently. Forgive me for quoting here, but Jesus said: I have come so that they might have life and to have it more abundantly, God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to the glory of god (slight paraphrase, but that's the gist). Again, this is the exact opposite of what you claim is in the bible.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
God also punishes people who THINK, instead of blindly following something.<hr /></blockquote>A does not imply B, especially when A is mistaken in the first place.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
There has been no PROOF or Evidence of god, or most things in the bible (before you jump on me, yes some EVENTS really did happen, but there's no proof that moses parted the red seas, and theres no proof that jesus ressurrected himself), so if you don't believe in him (due to lack of ANY evidence what so ever ) you too shall also suffer eternal damnation.<hr /></blockquote>Faith doesn not require proofs or it is no longer faith.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
So basically he only lets in the sheep who never think for themselves, punishes anybody who needs evidence to believe, and sends all the good natured people who happen to be in a different country following a different religon straight to hell.<hr /></blockquote>nope, wrong. but persist in that belief if it helps justify your vendettas.

Lerkfish · Jul 30, 2002, 11:27 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
Please don't attack me personally, it's only a debate, not a war, and it bring nothing to your points. Thanks<hr /></blockquote>

V · Jul 30, 2002, 11:33 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lerkfish:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
Please don't attack me personally, it's only a debate, not a war, and it bring nothing to your points. Thanks<hr /></blockquote>

<hr /></blockquote>OK Ok I'll explain: This is sarcasm and can be use in rhetoric. Attack someone personally is talking about is intelligence, is education, sex, etc

Zimphire · Jul 30, 2002, 11:46 AM

Jesus did so talk about hell BTW

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
� � � � -Mark 9:43-48

In another passage Christ calls the Scribes and Pharisees a "generation of vipers," and warns them, "How will you escape the damnation of Hell?" (Matt. 23:33) Those are pretty strong words from the Lord Jesus. He laid it on the line. He told it like it is.

Ca$h68 · Jul 30, 2002, 12:51 PM

Jesus talks about hell a LOT. Here's some

Luke
God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20
Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9
John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17
Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15
Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

- Ca$h

Lerkfish · Jul 30, 2002, 12:56 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Jesus talks about hell a LOT. Here's some

Luke
God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20
Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9
John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17
Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15
Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

- Ca$h<hr /></blockquote>man you just need to lighten up!

you're worse than a bible-thumper!

honestly, if that's all you want to see in the bible, that's all you'll find. Did you not even read the rest of my post at all?

ringo · Jul 30, 2002, 01:02 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:

John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17 <hr /></blockquote>John the Baptist knew about napalm?

Lerkfish · Jul 30, 2002, 01:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ringo:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:

John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17 <hr /></blockquote>John the Baptist knew about napalm?

<hr /></blockquote>John the Baptist: I love the smell of napalm in the morning...it smells....I dunno...it smells like a bunch of sinners burning in hell!

denim · Jul 30, 2002, 01:10 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
We know about God's omniscience, thanks<hr /></blockquote>I didn't say anything about that. I'm not sure I believe in it.

Lerkfish · Jul 30, 2002, 01:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lerkfish:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by V:
Please don't attack me personally, it's only a debate, not a war, and it bring nothing to your points. Thanks<hr /></blockquote>

<hr /></blockquote>OK Ok I'll explain: This is sarcasm and can be use in rhetoric. Attack someone personally is talking about is intelligence, is education, sex, etc<hr /></blockquote>POUNCE!
the rolled eyes is my way of saying: no need to feed the troll. No sarcasm is implied.

Its clear you are not interested in discussion but rather trolling for blood. I have no interest in that. I already gave you more benefit of the doubt than you frankly deserved.

DBursey · Jul 30, 2002, 01:33 PM

The word hell, as found in the old testament, is translated from the Hebrew word sheol, which means the state or location of the dead. There is no reference in that definition to a place of endless torment. There is also a figurative use to the word sheol, which seems to represent a state of degradation or calamity arising from any cause; whether misfortune, sin, or the judgment of God.

From the book of Revelations in the new testament, we find: "And I looked, and behold a pale horse; and his name that sat on him was death, and hell followed him" - most probably a reference to the connection between death and the grave, or the state of being dead, as opposed to any connotation to a place of infinite punishment.