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jcadam · Jul 20, 2002, 10:42 AM

I'm in the market for a new computer to replace my PowerMac G3 B&W. After MNWY I am considering moving over to PCs (for desktops, anyway).

However, I have decided I'm going to wait for the new PowerMacs to be released next month and THEN make my decision.

On the PowerMac side, We've basically had nothing but speed bumps to the same machine (same motherboard == same machine) for the last year and a half. For me to NOT switch to PC I'll need to see the following:

1. A NEW motherboard with DDR RAM support and possibly AGP 8X.
2. The extreme high-end machine should not be alone in having dual-processors. I like the idea of making up for the MHz gap by adding multiple processors, but I don't want to spend $4000 on a computer.

That's it, I don't think I'm asking for too much here. I don't give a sh*t about a new case (would be nice, though). I only find the whole .Mac thing to be annoying at most (I never really used iTools except for the email). Lack of iDisk and free email don't make your computer useless.

I can wait 30 days, it would seem that a good many of you cannot.

Apple has had over a year to design a new Powermac, it's time for them to show us something. In mid-august we'll see wether or not Apple's entire R&D budget was spent on eMacs and Flat Panel iMacs.

amsalpemkcus · Jul 20, 2002, 10:54 AM

~1 ghz Powermac with ddr for 1500-1800$
or
~1 ghz powerbook wit ddr for 2000-2250$
and
.Mac for 20$ a year with the purchase of a new mac.

denim · Jul 20, 2002, 03:22 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jcadam:
1. A NEW motherboard with DDR RAM support and possibly AGP 8X.
2. The extreme high-end machine should not be alone in having dual-processors. I like the idea of making up for the MHz gap by adding multiple processors, but I don't want to spend $4000 on a computer.<hr /></blockquote>I'm not one who cares about .mac/iTools. I am considering a <a href="http://www.micronpc.com/smallbiz/store/desktops/product_detail/millennia_ts2_xtreme.html" target="_blank">mini tower PC</a> for around $1300. This would include a replacable nVidea GeForce 4 Ti 4600 graphics card. Three reasons for this: hardware which is better than anything Apple is currently offering at any price

, graphics hardware which starts at the top-of-the-line, and the ability to smoke most other systems currently on the market

, including Apple's

. It runs XP. Okay, nothing is perfect. It'll also run Linux, which improves the situation a little.

My problem is that Apple has nothing to compete with this, other than their OS, for which getting current games is a problem. Games drive hardware purchasing. They drive graphics development, for both hardware and software. They attract geeks and home users alike. Apple isn't attractive to game developers, so Apple's systems get secondary releases relative to those for Windows PCs.

Either kind of system will do e-mail, USENET, web, and other telecom-related tasks, as well as normal business-related tasks, so those are not decision points.

I still have Photoshop 7.0, but I don't use it much, not being a graphics person. But I am a gamer, and Apple doesn't support me there, so Apple may well lose me in the next month. At least, in the sense that Microsoft will have its nose in the tent flap. <img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />

mitchell_pgh · Jul 20, 2002, 03:36 PM

I was in the same situation a few monts back, and I still went Mac. I think after Macworld I'm even more excited about the Mac, not less. Yes, the .mac thing is sad (I never really used iTools, but honestly, the backup utility does make me think...)

I'm happy to see that OS X is out and doing well. I got the low end 733 tower (education price) with a 32MB ATI 7500... I have been to the Apple store enough to know that the 2x 1Ghz systems are much faster, BUT with 10.2, things are going to change... but I'm not going to get into that.

I'm happy with my system. I know that you aren't happy with the motherobard/RAM etc, but I think you will see faster machines. Apple knows this is an issue, but I think the software issue is more of a problem.

I also think that unless you are gaming all of the time or doing serious video editing, just buy the Mac

I just coudn't go PC... the iApps are worth it alone... but it's your life, do what you want...

Cheers,

Mitchell_pgh

denim · Jul 20, 2002, 04:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I'm happy with my system. I know that you aren't happy with the motherobard/RAM etc, but I think you will see faster machines. Apple knows this is an issue, but I think the software issue is more of a problem.<hr /></blockquote>I just really think they should put everything they've got into building better & faster machines. They've got to compete with the PC boxes, and they're not doing it. Screw Motorola. Wow, but it feels weird to say that!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I also think that unless you are gaming all of the time or doing serious video editing, just buy the Mac<hr /></blockquote>You think I don't want to? To buy a Mac to compete with the PC I found, I'd have to wait another year for Apple to release it, then another year after that for the software. I can't wait that long, as my requirements at that point will have advanced that much further.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I just coudn't go PC... the iApps are worth it alone... but it's your life, do what you want...<hr /></blockquote>It comes down to, "does it do what I need?" If the answer is "no", I can't use it. Apple must make this work, or I won't have a choice!

[ 07-20-2002, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: denim ]

theolein · Jul 20, 2002, 07:51 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by denim:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I'm happy with my system. I know that you aren't happy with the motherobard/RAM etc, but I think you will see faster machines. Apple knows this is an issue, but I think the software issue is more of a problem.<hr /></blockquote>I just really think they should put everything they've got into building better & faster machines. They've got to compete with the PC boxes, and they're not doing it. Screw Motorola. Wow, but it feels weird to say that!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I also think that unless you are gaming all of the time or doing serious video editing, just buy the Mac<hr /></blockquote>You think I don't want to? To buy a Mac to compete with the PC I found, I'd have to wait another year for Apple to release it, then another year after that for the software. I can't wait that long, as my requirements at that point will have advanced that much further.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I just coudn't go PC... the iApps are worth it alone... but it's your life, do what you want...[/quota]

It comes down to, "does it do what I need?" If the answer is "no", I can't use it. Apple must make this work, or I won't have a choice!<hr /></blockquote>This is one of my considerations as well. Apple is just moving so slowly with it's hardware. I've heard it might be changing again next month, but it always seems to be just so slow. The OS always seems to be unresponsive, irresponsive of what the hardware isI get used to it and sort of forget about it until I use a Windows GUI (agreed, Windows doesn't have double buffering or alpha compositing but does one need it?). What worries me is that Apple hardware is expensive and when one considers what is inside, i.e. standard components mainly, one has to ask oneself why??? What exactly am I paying for? The only piece of hardware that is actually really worth it's price is the iBook. Similar small footprint PC laptops aren't any cheaper. But in the Powerbook and the Desktops, the internal hardware is more advanced in PC's and cheaper, and more flexible. I appreciate Apple's need to turn a profit, and OSX is very successful, but why does Apple have to do it on their customers backs?

Millennium · Jul 20, 2002, 07:57 PM

AGP 8X video doesn't concern me too much. And although DDR RAM would be good, even on the PC end of things we're still only seeing it in the highest-end machines.

What I want to see is a decent system bus. Upgrade that to current PC levels (we're two generations behind at least, and possibly more) and I think we'll see an even bigger speed boost than we would have seen elsewhere.

And for crying out loud, get someone other than Moto to make PPC chips!

Knof8 · Jul 20, 2002, 09:10 PM

I know this is going to sound strange but WHY but a new computer jcadam? Is there video/graphic editing software that you need to run, but can't on your computer??? Are games the serious issue and you miss not being able to play them? I can understand wanting the best and top of the line products all the time, but if what ya got is doing what you need it to; why on earth drop the money on a new computer/programs when it's not necessary? Bad American culture always having us regret our purchases 5 mins after we've made them because of something that will come out in the next 2 mins.

TwoBee2 · Jul 20, 2002, 10:40 PM

Well several of my Mac using friends and myself aren't so upset over Jaguar, although I personally feel OSX still has a long way to go before they should charge for another upgrade. I have yet to see the performance advantages of 10.1.5, nevermind paying another $129.00 for another upgrade. This is driving many (previouskly) loyal Mac users away.

What upsets most of us more is iTools. As soon as the "pay for dot mac" goes into effect, there will be a blackout of images accross the board. The proportions of which may well have never been seen before.

I'd liked to have hung on, but I think it's a little too late for that now. I know of at least 10 businesses in my area that have previously relied on Mac's and are now re-thinking what they will do in the future. These are your typically "niche" Mac sort of businesses like Design houses and Ad Agencies, and other Graphics related businesses.

I'm going to try to hang on as long as possible, but when demand for knowledge of a different platform arises I will have to switch or starve.

jcadam · Jul 20, 2002, 10:41 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Knof8:
I know this is going to sound strange but WHY but a new computer jcadam? Is there video/graphic editing software that you need to run, but can't on your computer??? Are games the serious issue and you miss not being able to play them? I can understand wanting the best and top of the line products all the time, but if what ya got is doing what you need it to; why on earth drop the money on a new computer/programs when it's not necessary? Bad American culture always having us regret our purchases 5 mins after we've made them because of something that will come out in the next 2 mins.<hr /></blockquote>While my B&W G3 is hella fast in OS 9 (it's been upgraded to the max, 550mhz G3, 768mb RAM, Radeon PCI, etc.), it is frustratingly slow in OS X.

The B&W CAN do what I need it to do, but using the OS X UI on it is like walking through knee-high mud.

I'm waiting now because new Powermacs are supposed to be out soon. When I DO buy, I at least want to make sure it's going to last another few years or so.

Hey, Colorado Springs!!! I just moved from there ( I graduated from CU-the Springs). Great place.

[ 07-20-2002, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: jcadam ]

theolein · Jul 20, 2002, 10:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
AGP 8X video doesn't concern me too much. And although DDR RAM would be good, even on the PC end of things we're still only seeing it in the highest-end machines.

What I want to see is a decent system bus. Upgrade that to current PC levels (we're two generations behind at least, and possibly more) and I think we'll see an even bigger speed boost than we would have seen elsewhere.

And for crying out loud, get someone other than Moto to make PPC chips!<hr /></blockquote>You can't really buy PC's that don't use DDR anymore. That is how long DDR has been around.

Knof8 · Jul 20, 2002, 11:01 PM

Well right now running an iBook 500 with 384 Ram. OS X works pretty well for me, and I enjoy how the more often you use a program the quicker it will load up each time. Folks stil us OS 9 and there are just times I feel that on their iMac it's slower than dirt. But it's all good, IMHO, and I can usually spare the few extra seconds OS X sometimes needs when first opening a program. Just wish I could update my graphix card, but I knew buying a laptop that it was already hard enough to do that nad so it's not an issue for me.

(JC did you just graduate from UCCS; as in '02? I had friends who went there. PM me and I can give you there names, maybe you know them.)

InterfaceGuy · Jul 20, 2002, 11:02 PM

I'm building a PC. So far I've only bought a case. I don't have enough money to buy a whole computer so I'm building piece by piece. For me to buy a whole new Mac I'd have to sell mine then put money with it. When I decide I want a new Mac next year I'll have to do the same thing again. I will be keeping my Mac but for me to ever again buy new Apple hardware, they'd have to offer a motherboard and processor without having to buy a whole new computer. The motherboard would have to be priced similar to PC motherboards, maybe around the $100-$150 range and it would have to be a form factor that would fit in any case that I want to buy. I do love the Mac OS, but I'm tired of not having any hardware choices to run it on and don't have the money to by what they offer.