[rocky2]

until Q1 2006!

That's not a typo. Due to new APIs. Looks like they have basically bottom-drawed it. Perhaps by 2006, Nisus Writer will have got to a usable state with full Word compatability.

Oh how I really want a good alternative with Word compatibility!

I have tried MacWrite, Nisus Writer, Abi Word, Mellor (?), Think Free Office and none of them can cut it in Japanese. Although MacWrite is halfway there with opening Japanese Word files, it can't save in a format that Japanese Word can open.

[Developer]

http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/timeline.html

seems you're right. I don't think that's bad news though. We have Microsoft Office and other suits have the time to grow into serious competition.

OpenOffice is horrible anyway.

[MacGorilla]

Bummer....

[Cadaver]

Clearly there will never be an Aqua-UI version of OpenOffice.

By Q1 2006, OpenOffice will be irrelevant. There will either be a newer version of MS Office or adequate competition from someone else (Apple themselves, perhaps).

[clam2000]

take another look, that's for version two, which hasn't been released yet. The mac version will only be 9 months behind the windows version.

(slashdot.org has a story...)

--will

[asxless]

Anyone who is disappointed in the OpenOffice.org Aqua port delay should look in a mirror; then ask themselves whether they could have helped the OOo Mac porting team. FWIW the number of people who can say they made a significant contribution to the OOo Mac Ports during the last year can probably be counted on one hand and certainly on two hands with a few fingers to spare.

Folks, the Aqua port could have been finished by now if more people had pitched in and helped with coding, testing and supporting the recently released Mac X11 Port. This would have allowed the main developers to focus on the Aqua port. They have had an Aqua prototype (NeoOffice) working for over 6 months. But there simply were not enough people working on the OOo Mac ports over the last year to finish both the X11 and Aqua ports. The structural changes in OOo v 2.x make further work on an Aqua port of OOo v1.x a fools errand. Frankly, I believe it will take everyone currently working on the project just to keep the Mac X11 port current with the OOo ports for other platforms. I'll be stunned if an Aqua port materializes without more people helping the core Mac porting team.

Contrary to popular belief, Open Source software is not 'free'. Some people must invest (often huge amounts of) their personal time to make Open Source software available, at no cost, to others. You might want to think about that the next time you download some Open Source software for 'free' and ask yourself what you are prepared to do to help keep Open Source software available 'at no cost'.

-- asxless in iLand

FWIW I worked very closely with the OOo Mac porting team over the last year contributing several man months of my personal time beta testing, reporting bugs and providing online user support for the recently released OOo Mac X11 port.

[Cadaver]

And should those of us who aren't programmers be ashamed of ourselves? I would have helped if I could, but I haven't written a program since Apple FP BASIC went out of style.

The only way I could have contributed was to buy a set of install CDs once completed.

[dru]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
And should those of us who aren't programmers be ashamed of ourselves? I would have helped if I could, but I haven't written a program since Apple FP BASIC went out of style.

The only way I could have contributed was to buy a set of install CDs once completed.

There are other ways to contribute than being able to code. Jumping in on one of those areas might just free up someone who is coding to focus more on that.

Ed, Dan and them are really working hard, making great progress, but there's just too few of them to move the project ahead at a faster rate. Look into it, maybe there is something you can do to help.

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
Clearly there will never be an Aqua-UI version of OpenOffice.

By Q1 2006, OpenOffice will be irrelevant. There will either be a newer version of MS Office or adequate competition from someone else (Apple themselves, perhaps).

I agree. It is a disappointment though and that's not to discount the work these guys have done on the project. It's hard when you don't have funding but the fact is that by the time it gets to a native build, it may be too late. I think if Sun was smart, they would have tried to port StarOffice on their own...especially knowing about the state of the relationship between Apple and M$. As much as I hate M$, it is still the best office suite on the Mac platform. I'm still a bit worried that they might discontinue it because that would screw many people. Running it through VPC is just plain foolish. So if M$ Office were to go away, I hope Apple has a backup plan for an office suite with full M$ Office compatibility.

[kupan787]

Having not seen the code (is there a CVS of it someplace, I couldn't find anything in my brief search), how hard would it be to "strip" out the part of theopenoffice code that converted to and from word, and built a Cocoa app around just that? If that was possible, I am sure a couple of these guys could do it in a shorter period than doing a full port. Since 2.0 isn't to be out for even windows until 2005, this "interum" step could be good shortterm goal. It woudln't be as massive as a full port, and it could last on itsown for a year and a half. We would have a workable, Cocoa, Word-like program. Sure it woudln't have all the features of OpenOffice, but it could open and save word files, all most of us really want. Hell, if I had the code I would take a shot at it assumiong it wasn't too complicated (I have a week and a half before school starts up again)

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by kupan787:
Having not seen the code (is there a CVS of it someplace, I couldn't find anything in my brief search), how hard would it be to "strip" out the part of theopenoffice code that converted to and from word, and built a Cocoa app around just that? If that was possible, I am sure a couple of these guys could do it in a shorter period than doing a full port. Since 2.0 isn't to be out for even windows until 2005, this "interum" step could be good shortterm goal. It woudln't be as massive as a full port, and it could last on itsown for a year and a half. We would have a workable, Cocoa, Word-like program. Sure it woudln't have all the features of OpenOffice, but it could open and save word files, all most of us really want. Hell, if I had the code I would take a shot at it assumiong it wasn't too complicated (I have a week and a half before school starts up again)

If the reports are to be believed, the functionality to read and write Word docs is already present in Panther, and that TextEdit in 10.3 is able to do this already. Given this, I don't think anyone would go to the trouble to make a Cocoa equivalent of icWord when other options already exist (like the app just mentioned).

[asxless]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
And should those of us who aren't programmers be ashamed of ourselves? I would have helped if I could, but I haven't written a program since Apple FP BASIC went out of style.

The only way I could have contributed was to buy a set of install CDs once completed.

There appears to be a common misconception that the only way to contribute to an Open Source project is to be a able to "code" and/or "compile from source". The fact is that any moderately savvy user can make a significant contribution and never code or compile anything by...
* testing the most recent code changes and giving feedback to the code developers on what does and doesn't work,
* providing online support to the beta testing community to get newcomers past their early install and testing problems,
* confirming bugs reported by others,
* suggesting solutions to problem areas.
* providing online end user support...

By doing these things you free up the core code developers so that they can concentrate on coding not testing, supporting, confirming bugs, etc.

In other words, anyone who can learn to use new software, can use a forum interface like this one, and is willing to report back their user experiences, can make a contribution to an Open Source project like OOo. I suspect that most people who frequent MacNN qualify

FWIW I would never suggest that my contribution to the OOo project over the last year was on a par with Ed's or Dan's. BUT I was always treated as an equal member of the team. Even though I never wrote a single line of code.

-- asxless in iLand

[asxless]

Originally posted by kupan787:
...Hell, if I had the code I would take a shot at it assumiong it wasn't too complicated (I have a week and a half before school starts up again)

You will find complete instructions on how to download the OOo code (via CVS) and build your own copy of the X11 v1.x release on this page in the OOo website

Have fun

-- asxless in iLand

[normyzo]

A message from part of the dev team...

Two points to start with. First, the reason for the delay is that talks with the Sun engineers in Hamburg have been somewhat less than productive. They are projecting no major releases after OpenOffice.org 1.1, instead opting only for bug fixes and minor features. What we want to do for the Aqua port is fairly major. We've said point-blank to them that we _cannot_ wait until 2.0 (projected to be late 2004/early 2005 at the earliest) to drop our Aqua changes. Hence the impasse.

Second point is that we may be able to wrangle a 1.5 release with our required changes or something. Others, like Ximian, want to add stuff to. So the long and short of it may be that there isn't an "official" Aquafied OpenOffice.org release until 2005 and OOo 2.0, but there could be an interim release.

Furthermore, asxless is right. Over the past two years, there have been a total of TWO half-time developers on this port, and for both of us that half-time is completely volunteer outside of full-time jobs. That's simply not enough man-hours. We've always needed more people, but nobody wants to work on something that's not Aquafied yet. But we need people to help us do exactly that. Chicken and the egg almost. Its sad.

And you don't need to program to help us out. Asxless was a GREAT help and invaluable to the project, but all of us must move on at some time as he has. He's left a void that isn't filled. Simply responding to questions that other users ask is a great help. Anything is a great help.

Thanks all,
Dan

[kupan787]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
If the reports are to be believed, the functionality to read and write Word docs is already present in Panther, and that TextEdit in 10.3 is able to do this already. Given this, I don't think anyone would go to the trouble to make a Cocoa equivalent of icWord when other options already exist (like the app just mentioned).

I didn't know about the TextEdit bit. Does it format things correctly (font colors, sizes, indentations, etc)?

icWord is only a viewer. Not much use really as a word proccessor that can open and save word documents.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by kupan787:
I didn't know about the TextEdit bit. Does it format things correctly (font colors, sizes, indentations, etc)?

You should probably ask someone who has Panther - I'm just telling what I've heard on the various boards. Hopefully, it's true...

[Sharky K.]

A long time ago I emailed them (several times) that I would like to help them with icons and User Interface. Never heard from them.

[Developer]

Originally posted by normyzo:
The reason for the delay is that talks with the Sun engineers in Hamburg have been somewhat less than productive.

Hamburg? Those are the StarDivision folks I would assume. Judging from their past they hate Mac and they hate Mac users. We are better off without OpenOffice and allowing other Office suits made by people who are dedicated to Mac to be commercially viable.

[asxless]

For those who don't have their knickers in a perpetual twist...

If you are interested in helping to create an Open Source and FREE office suite running natively in Mac OS X and using the Aqua interface you should visit http://trinity.neooffice.org/ Get familiar with the NeoOffice project, which is developing an Aqua office suite based on the OpenOffice.org code base BUT is _not_ dependent on Sun or StarOffice, etc. decisions. Ed recently posted an article on trinity that says that an Aqua version of NeoOffice could be ready for Beta testing as early as January 2004. Of course this time frame requires the Mac community to actually step up to the plate and provide additional help coding, testing, and supporting the NeoOffice Open Source (GPL) initiative.

BTW trinity is also the home of the Support, Testing and Development forums for...
* the OOo X11 port,
* NeoOffice/J - which allows the basic X11 port code to run natively in Mac OSX (not requiring X11) and adds Asian language, Mac OS font support, etc. ,
* NeoOffice - an Aqua offcie suite based on the OOo code base.

-- asxless in iLand

[JB72]

2006 lol?! Now that is a proper software delay. They might as well postponed indefinitely.

[normyzo]

Originally posted by kupan787:
I didn't know about the TextEdit bit. Does it format things correctly (font colors, sizes, indentations, etc)?

icWord is only a viewer. Not much use really as a word proccessor that can open and save word documents.

Well, it does. But TE's support is very simple, nothing like tables or more complicated things. And that is a limitation in my book...

Dan

[normyzo]

Originally posted by Developer:
Hamburg? Those are the StarDivision folks I would assume. Judging from their past they hate Mac and they hate Mac users. We are better off without OpenOffice and allowing other Office suits made by people who are dedicated to Mac to be commercially viable.

Actually, I've met a few of them, and many of them used Macs and many still do. They don't hate Macs at all, they just aren't getting paid to make StarOffice work on them right now. Take that up with Sun management.

Dan

[kupan787]

Originally posted by asxless:
Get familiar with the NeoOffice project, which is developing an Aqua office suite based on the OpenOffice.org code base BUT is _not_ dependent on Sun or StarOffice, etc. decisions. Ed recently posted an article on trinity that says that an Aqua version of NeoOffice could be ready for Beta testing as early as January 2004.

I haven't been able to connect to the trinity site (well, it connects but gives me just a blank page), but reading the FAQ, and other info on the front page, it sounds like this is just a proof of concept, and there aren't plans on making this into a consumer app. Have things changed?

[asxless]

Originally posted by kupan787:
I haven't been able to connect to the trinity site (well, it connects but gives me just a blank page), but reading the FAQ, and other info on the front page, it sounds like this is just a proof of concept, and there aren't plans on making this into a consumer app. Have things changed?

Ed runs trinity on one of his menagerie of computers (last I heard trinity was running on a PC running Darwin). Unfortunately it is not too stable and is probably now awaiting his return to be rebooted:(

BTW this is an example of how this small team could use help from non coders -- that is, someone could offload running trinity from one of the core developers.

You are correct. NeoOffice was originally 'spun off' as a GPL test bed for developing the method(s) for Aquafying OOo. But AFIAK there are no legal/licensing restrictions for anyone (or a group) to take the NeoOffice "testbed" and turn it into a full blown Aqua port of the OOo code base as long as they keep the code open source. For example this allows OpenOffice.org to incorporate any NeoOffice 'improvements' into an official OOo Aqua port in the future. I _suspect_ that this is what Ed was alluding to in his post on trinity.

Note: NeoOffice is not an OpenOffice.org project. This means that it is not limited to/by the OOo decisions, etc. But is also does not benefit from the OOo resources: website, CVS, marketing, support mailing lists, upgrades to the underlying code base, etc. So it would take more than just two developers (and a few cases of beer) to make NeoOffice a success. It will take a committed team of Mac users who are willing to build, test, market, support, upgrade it.

FWIW I dropped off the team after the X11 v1.0.3 final release because...
1) I think the X11 port is already a viable (free) alternative to other office suites for OSX
2) I think the existing team (without additional volunteers) has all they can really manage just maintaining and supporting an X11 port. BTW Ed and/or Dan will eventually realize that there is more to life than working on OOo in all of their 'spare time' only to read, in threads like this, how unhappy/happy Mac users are that the OOo Aqua port isn't ready yet, isn't ever going to happen, etc. I did;)
3) I don't think the Mac community is prepared to contribute the support required for a open source Mac only (i.e. Aqua) port of the OOo code base ala NeoOffice. But I'd enjoy being proven wrong:)

-- asxless in iLand