[Zimphire]

No the REAL ONE that the ORIGINAL mothman stories came from.

Not the one in the TV series.

[iLikebeer]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Budster, you may be interested in reading about sleep paralysis.

http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P2.html

There went my ghost story. Good to see it starts to go away as you get older. I wonder if it affects people with bad sleeping habits more. It always happened to me when I hadn't slept in a while, sort of dozed off, then partially woke up completely freaked out.
This thread gave me the chills while I was reading it.

[Zimphire]

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

No the REAL ONE that the ORIGINAL mothman stories came from.

Not the one in the TV series.

Man, the chick in that show was hot.

[brapper]

Also, I don't find any of the sotries in this thread particularly frightening, however each time I read about one of your sightings the hairs on the back of my necks tingle. It's a weird that it just comes naturally when reading about ghosts even though I don't find myself scared.

Anyone else? And does anyone want to save me a google search to explain the reason for such reactions?

[Chuckit]

Sounds kind of like a sympathetic reaction. The same way seeing somebody yawn can make you yawn even if you actually have no reason to yawn.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Man, the chick in that show was hot.

I always thought Cameron Richardson was, too:

[RAILhead]

[Ke^in]

[sek929]

I don't believe in the classic "ghost" , ya know, sheets, chains, etc...

But I swear to Allah that something was in that old house, in our new house in the spooky woods...nothing...no time for spooks to collect I guess. Also I just asked my father and he confirms that the house was well over 200 years old.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

I always thought Cameron Richardson was, too

That's the chick who didn't like the hot blonde chick? Wow, she looks different.

(You can tell what a big fan I was. Hot chicks, but man that show was lame.)

Incidentally, I would like to announce that this thread is deRAILheaded.

[Ke^in]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Man, the chick in that show was hot.

She's a doll.

[hip(2)b⟡]

How come people only see people as ghosts?

Why not, say, chickens? Ghost chickens?

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by hip(2)b⟡

How come people only see people as ghosts?

Why not, say, chickens? Ghost chickens?

Not sure if you're just trying to be a smartarse, but the answer to that is that most people don't believe chickens have an eternal soul or spirit.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

That's the chick who didn't like the hot blonde chick? Wow, she looks different.

(You can tell what a big fan I was. Hot chicks, but man that show was lame.)

Incidentally, I would like to announce that this thread is deRAILheaded.

No way! Chuckit started it all!!!!



Maury

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Not sure if you're just trying to be a smartarse, but the answer to that is that most people don't believe chickens have an eternal soul or spirit.

There are reports of animals and inanimate objects appearing as ghosts.

My theory stands. It's a time phase thing (when it's not an angel/demon thing).

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Doofy

There are reports of animals and inanimate objects appearing as ghosts.

My theory stands. It's a time phase thing (when it's not an angel/demon thing).

Yes, but theories divulge on such cases, and it depends upon the parapsychologist's paranormal beliefs/understandings/experiences, etc. Animals and inanimate objects don't typically fall under standard parapsycology as "ghosts" -- and that's because there are so many definitions on what a ghost is.

To many, a ghost is the remaining essence of a dead person, and it remains because that essence is eternal. Here we divulge again, between those that believe only humans have spirits that are eternal vs those that think all beings of matter have an eternal essence.

The former see inanimate "ghost" objects or animals as manifestations made by the spirits in an attempt to communicate a certain thought, feeling, etc. Thus, it's not really the spirit of the object being seen, but a manifestation of said object by the spirit. The later parapsycologist sees the inanimate object/animal as the essence of said item, since they see all things as having eternal essences.

I could go on and on about this (I spent five years studying it at college), but the bottom line is what people believe a ghost to be.

Lastly, there are those in the field that believe there is Good and Bad, and there are forces aligned with each. They are sometimes called pure spirits, meaning they are not the essence of a formerly living being or entity -- their beginning was the beginning of Time.

At this point, the various religions and faiths jump in and call the Good pure spirits angels, and the Bad pure spirits demons. The Good are ruled by God, the loving spirit, and the Bad are ruled by the Beast, the hateful spirit.

...and so on and so on...

Maury

[besson3c]

Since this thread is dying, how about we open it up to include other supernatural phonemena?

Any aliens, sasquatch, Loch-Ness monster, clairvoyance, or any other interesting sightings/experiences?

[EdGein]

Ever read "The Mothman Prophecies" ? Not the movie.. the actual book.

He comes to a conclusion that I agree with.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Doofy

My theory stands. It's a time phase thing (when it's not an angel/demon thing).

Agreed.

[EdGein]

I happen to agree too.

[RAILhead]

I find it hard to believe we're the only intelligent life in the universe.

As a Christian, the way I see it, is that the Universe is God's canvas, and when he created us and our Place, He was merely painting in a corner. Only He knows what's on the opposite edge.

Maury

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by EdGein

Ever read "The Mothman Prophecies" ? Not the movie.. the actual book.

He comes to a conclusion that I agree with.

Never read it -- what does he conclude?

Maury

[EdGein]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Never read it -- what does he conclude?

Maury

here is a good article

http://members.tripod.com/~task_2/Wave-Keel.htm

[zerostar]

If you believe in something, the view with which you look at the world around you is also changed. Most often in favor of your belief.

I don't believe in ghosts because I believe when you're dead, you're just dead. I do believe that the human mind is quite capable of all kinds of interesting hallucinations.

Have you ever seen a person, otherwise seemingly normal start to hallucinate? I have seen this among many elderly patients with no previous history of psychosis. They think all kinds of totally crazy things are going on. They see strange men in their closets or such as that. People who are temporarily sensory deprived will often hallucinate as well. What about those who experience religious frenzy? Do you think that they are seeing real things or experiencing something real since it happens so often?

The human brain is a complex organ influenced by a myriad of chemicals that can alter one's perception. Throw in a little cultural bias, wishful thinking and you never know what you will see with your mind.

Do you think all those reports of alien landings are real too since it's happened so often? Have you ever read Sagan's Demon Haunted World. It is a good read.

[hip(2)b⟡]

Yeah. Let's open it up to include all kinds of supernatural things.

In fact, why don't we make it a Scientology thread?

Dr. Tom Cruise would love it then!

[Gee4orce]

Bigfoot is not supernatural - it's 'just' a new species of primate that's not recognised by mainstream science.

I like the 'time echo' idea, but the one thing that makes me think this isn't the case is that ghosts have been recorded responding to questions, sometimes quite distinctly.

The reason nobody has been able to claim Randi's million is that he wants reproducible, scientific proof. Unfortunately, these phenomena, whatever causes them, are not reproducible. They seem to be very time and state dependent, and also depend on the state of mind of the viewer. It's also possible that there is some fundamental law of nature (or something else) that forbids conclusive evidence ever being obtained.

I know trustworthy people who have seen things with their own eyes that just cannot be rationally explained. This is not aimed ay anyone in particular, but I get annoyed when people in internet discussion boards dismiss these experiences out of hand - by doing so you are just proving that you are just as bigoted and single minded as people who totally believe in ghosts and angels and god or whatever. It tell you, if it was you or your friend who's seen or heard something strange, you wouldn't be quite so sure that it's all 'in their minds' or made up...

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

I like the 'time echo' idea, but the one thing that makes me think this isn't the case is that ghosts have been recorded responding to questions, sometimes quite distinctly.

Not time "echo" as such. More like time bleed - a bit like the radio waves do in the film "Frequency".

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Not time "echo" as such. More like time bleed - a bit like the radio waves do in the film "Frequency".

Exactly. There are states of matter and consciousness which bend (for lack of a better word) time/space.

[MorningStar]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Never read it -- what does he conclude?

Maury

here is a good article

http://members.tripod.com/~task_2/Wave-Keel.htm

I posted this once. But it got tookinated.

[budster101]

Interesting Read.

[MorningStar]

The whole book is like that. Good read. I read it in Jr High, then later when I was in college.

[wolfen]

I have several stories, but this particular event I learned second hand from my sister. She and my brother confirm this account.

My sister, my brother, and my sister's son (about 3 years old) are in the basement of the house we grew up in. My brother (Alex) is playing the drums. Sister (Danielle) and nephew are kinda swaying to the beat and dancing or whatever. They're having fun.

Suddenly the nephew stops and stares toward the wall behind my brother. He walks over there and starts slapping his hands against the wall. Then he starts yelling "No! Go away! Stop! Go away!" The kid is angry, not scared. He keeps at this for a minute or two until he is interrupted.

Danielle and Alex stop and watch a moment. Danielle gets down and tries to comfort him.

"What's wrong, honey?"
"There's bad people there."
"Are they trying to hurt you, Sweetie?"
"No," says the nephew. He turns, points to my brother and says "Him."


No matter what you think of this account -- that's one gutsy 3 year old.

[RAILhead]

There are "forces" and "things" outside our normal plane of interaction, there's no doubt about it. I've done things are participated in things I regret having been part of -- because of how they affected others -- that can only be explained as the super-natural impacting the natural. I don't usually talk about it because it was a pretty dark stretch of years in my life, but I mention it here to add my name to the list of people that have experienced things that cannot be refuted simply because someone doesn't think it's true or didn't happen.

Not getting into specifics (unless someone really wants to hear the dirt), I have experienced, first-hand, all of the following:

• Object levitation
• Object movement
• Object vocalization
• Deep cold spots (the kind that move)
• Conjuring
• Forced questioning
• Automatic writing

And so on. Those were in my "darker" days when I began to study Demonology a bit too much, and i got a bit too interested in the subject matter.

On a lighter side (meaning, Angelic), I have also experienced first-hand:

• Physical assistance (though I never saw anything, just what it did)
• Removal of "demons" from an area

It's curious how the "dark" gets experienced so much more. Why is that? Because it seduces and gives instant gratification. It has to be more bold to prove itself, so those "dark things" of the super-natural are more willing to play along with us in hopes to drag us deeper into the place they want us: away from God.

Anyway, I don't like getting too much into this stuff online simply because this is such a lousy medium (no pun intended) for communication. I'm just making the point that I have seen and experienced things that cannot be explained by anything I know of in this world. They were truly super-natural.

Depending upon your thoughts of the afterlife, God, Satan, etc., you will have different names and explanations -- but the bottom line is this: there are things happening that require an explanation of some sort.

Maury

[HawgJawl]

RAIL I've had similar experiences as well.

[BlueSky]

I found I could do automatic writing many years ago. Scared the sh*t out of me at first, but I got accustomed to it and experimented. Also did research.

My hand cramps up and literally takes on a life of its own, starts writing or drawing stuff. It will respond to my questions.

Research indicated that most, if not all automatic writing is caused by ones own unconcious mind. Why, I don't know, but they say that the part of the mind that generates it will continue to insist forever that it's a separate entity from yourself. Mine has the name "William Potters", and "his" writing is radically different from my own. Looks like fancy writing by a signer of the declaration of independence or something like that.

At least in my case, I believe it's me and not any otherworld entity that causes it. Just some weird twinge of the unconscious.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Bluesky

I found I could do automatic writing many years ago. Scared the sh*t out of me at first, but I got accustomed to it and experimented. Also did research.

My hand cramps up and literally takes on a life of its own, starts writing or drawing stuff. It will respond to my questions.

Research indicated that most, if not all automatic writing is caused by ones own unconcious mind. Why, I don't know, but they say that the part of the mind that generates it will continue to insist forever that it's a separate entity from yourself. Mine has the name "William Potters", and "his" writing is radically different from my own. Looks like fancy writing by a signer of the declaration of independence or something like that.

At least in my case, I believe it's me and not any otherworld entity that causes it. Just some weird twinge of the unconscious.

Could you scan in pics of your automatic writing for us to see?

[RAILhead]

Yes, there are all kinds of theories on automatic writing. Many cases are simply due to an individual's subconscious acting out the will of the ego, but there are cases by the thousands of those "under" automatic writing writing out things they have no knowledge of. Details, facts, etc. -- not simply writing whatevertheheck. Responding to questions is one thing, giving insight and opinion on a situation not know by the person doing the writing is another.

The latter is what I'm talking about.
Maury

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Not getting into specifics (unless someone really wants to hear the dirt), I have experienced, first-hand, all of the following:

• Object levitation
• Object movement
• Object vocalization
• Deep cold spots (the kind that move)
• Conjuring
• Forced questioning
• Automatic writing

And so on. Those were in my "darker" days when I began to study Demonology a bit too much, and i got a bit too interested in the subject matter.

On a lighter side (meaning, Angelic), I have also experienced first-hand:

• Physical assistance (though I never saw anything, just what it did)
• Removal of "demons" from an area

It's curious how the "dark" gets experienced so much more. Why is that? Because it seduces and gives instant gratification. It has to be more bold to prove itself, so those "dark things" of the super-natural are more willing to play along with us in hopes to drag us deeper into the place they want us: away from God.

Anyway, I don't like getting too much into this stuff online simply because this is such a lousy medium (no pun intended) for communication. I'm just making the point that I have seen and experienced things that cannot be explained by anything I know of in this world. They were truly super-natural.

Depending upon your thoughts of the afterlife, God, Satan, etc., you will have different names and explanations -- but the bottom line is this: there are things happening that require an explanation of some sort.

Maury

Some people know what I work with, but to sum it up, I've been involved with different occult organizations for over 20 years (GD, OTO, AA) and practice ritual magick on a daily basis. For a fact, I can tell you that the "darker" aspects of the paranormal and magick are very intoxicating.

Two reasons for this, the first is because it's taboo and it gives you the feeling that you're doing something bad, the second is due to the very nature of the forces at work. They stimulate and reward when you give them attention, it's their nature. They are outside of "God's" grace, so the only way they can return to even a pale immitation of that state is to work for and beguile mankind. Even the most vile of people give off a degree of "light", and they desperately need it.

However, from what you described, I can say that you weren't working in the darker side of things. The "black" aspect of those arts, among other things, involves direct ritual invocation/evocation of the goetia (entities outlined in the Lesser Key of Solomon) for the purpose of extracting information or material goods from them. It's what people over the millenia have commonly referred to as sorcery.

Do agree with you about diccussing this subject online (specifically MacNN), too much can be taken out of context or misunderstood. However, it's safe to say that I have contact with powers on a regular basis that would freak out the avg Joe. Strange how it works though, in my experience even people who are very skeptical will experience or contact something given the right circumstances, but will then quickly start rationalizing it within their limited capacity. Their (so-called) rational mind will rebel against what actually happened, and before long they will have watered it down to something they can better grasp, or even forgotten about it completely. I refer to it as spiritual cognitive elasticity, and it helps them cope with what they consider to be real.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Could you scan in pics of your automatic writing for us to see?

I could, but I think it's pointless.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Bluesky

At least in my case, I believe it's me and not any otherworld entity that causes it. Just some weird twinge of the unconscious.

No offense, but that's how the mind come to grips with circumstances like that, you've already watered it down and assimilated it. It's much easier to handle that way.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Yes, there are all kinds of theories on automatic writing. Many cases are simply due to an individual's subconscious acting out the will of the ego, but there are cases by the thousands of those "under" automatic writing writing out things they have no knowledge of. Details, facts, etc. -- not simply writing whatevertheheck. Responding to questions is one thing, giving insight and opinion on a situation not know by the person doing the writing is another.

The latter is what I'm talking about.
Maury

I wonder if there have been cases of automatic typing?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by besson3c

I wonder if there have been cases of automatic typing?

Wow.. who the hell wrote this?



Sorry... just a little joke, no offense intended

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

However, from what you described, I can say that you weren't working in the darker side of things. The "black" aspect of those arts, among other things, involves direct ritual invocation/evocation of the goetia (entities outlined in the Lesser Key of Solomon) for the purpose of extracting information or material goods from them. It's what people over the millenia have commonly referred to as sorcery.

Actually, that's exactly what was going on -- but I was being sure to not open up too much since this subject is so misunderstood.

I generalized such instances by using the generic (generic to the lay person) term "conjuring" in my previous post.

We'll leave it at that.

Maury

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

No offense, but that's how the mind come to grips with circumstances like that, you've already watered it down and assimilated it. It's much easier to handle that way.

You have a good point. I'd be willing to consider that the phenomenon might have some not-me-significance, maybe by about a 4% possibility.

But as for coming to grips or handling it, I don't see why that would be a factor. I handled it very well, welcomed it and pursued it for a time until it began to dawn on me that there was something fishy about it. That, along with the research I did, I eventually came to accept that it was pretty much insignificant.

Ultimately, who knows. But given my temperament, if I discovered or intuited that it really was another entity writing through me, I would put it aside as well. In the end, it's "so what". Not in the cynical sense, but a recognition that it would not ultimately make a difference one way or another in my growth. One may have unusual abilities that can help others and oneself, great. If one can use those abilities without getting distracted from ones own ultimate destination, even better, but we're masters of distraction, every one of us, and psychic powers and such are not the point of who we are.

And before I go get too theological and Zenny and stuff, I am outta here!

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Actually, that's exactly what was going on -- but I was being sure to not open up too much since this subject is so misunderstood.

I generalized such instances by using the generic (generic to the lay person) term "conjuring" in my previous post.

We'll leave it at that.

Maury

Oh, well in that case, <smacks RAIL on the head> Don't do that.

that's some potetially deadly stuff. With those guys, if a person gets out of it with mental and/or emotional scarring, they've gotten off easy. The will is a powerful thing, but even with the most trained mind it's not perfect and can be overcome... even when "successful" you're left with a feeling of paranoia and should always be watchful. Much better to work with angelic and created forms, much less malice and ill intent to deal with.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Much better to work with angelic and created forms, much less malice and ill intent to deal with.

Yes. It's nice when you learn you have the final decision with that.

One of the greatest things newbie's can learn is that dark attracts dark and light attracts light -- and that what you attract is not coincidental. Being willing to raise that vibration, etc. is the true test of will in my opinion.

I was online with some guy who said no psychic would ever sit down with him for 10 seconds. They always tell him to go away. He says he doesn't know why -- but he thinks that's cool. I asked him "Do you realize the company you're keeping?" By "keeping" I mean he had some say about the situation. He enjoyed the ignorance-is-bliss mindset and just shrugged his shoulders. Not willing to take a look at himself for what might be going on.

The same is true for people who are well meaning and attempt to work with intentionality. You gotta be willing to see what is going on in the interaction/exchange. For me, that's nearly the entire value of the thing. Just tryin' to learn how I can get a leg up.

Make any sense, Mac?

[HawgJawl]

wolfen that makes perfect sense to me.

Some people you can sense problems.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by wolfen

Yes. It's nice when you learn you have the final decision with that.

One of the greatest things newbie's can learn is that dark attracts dark and light attracts light -- and that what you attract is not coincidental. Being willing to raise that vibration, etc. is the true test of will in my opinion.

I was online with some guy who said no psychic would ever sit down with him for 10 seconds. They always tell him to go away. He says he doesn't know why -- but he thinks that's cool. I asked him "Do you realize the company you're keeping?" By "keeping" I mean he had some say about the situation. He enjoyed the ignorance-is-bliss mindset and just shrugged his shoulders. Not willing to take a look at himself for what might be going on.

The same is true for people who are well meaning and attempt to work with intentionality. You gotta be willing to see what is going on in the interaction/exchange. For me, that's nearly the entire value of the thing. Just tryin' to learn how I can get a leg up.

Make any sense, Mac?

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I enjoy the experience of it, and not so much the knowledge or any material gain (though there was some of that too). That was the main reason I was so attracted to the darker aspects of the occult. Knowing that at any moment things in a particular "session" could change, feeling the threat but keeping it at arm's length... and even making it do what I wanted. Very intoxicating.

However, at the same time it made me a very dark person, I could feel the difference in my soul and others could sense that taint and were either repelled or attracted (usually those who get intoxicated by danger). A dear friend of mine would shiver when around me, because she claimed that I "carried the cold around with me" and it gave her constant chills. Then there were the nightmares and always being aware that some of the forces I worked with were intent on doing me harm, waiting for me to let my guard down. Was very exhausting after a while, and this basically went on for over 10 years... stubborn bastard that I am.

Then I stopped, cold turkey and changed my type of "work" completely. My life did a complete 180 and I found that I was actually happy for the first time since I was 16. People who hadn't seen me for years didn't even recognize me anymore, every aspect of my personality and appearance changed. I will say though, it was an experience, and even though I wouldn't go through it again, I'm glad I got to witness it first hand. Now I spend my time attracting light, instead of collecting dark. And, I still get to have fun with it along the way.

[JazzCatDRP]

Just had some oogie-boogie scariness tonight. I haven't had any problems in months, and nothing in my new apartment.

My girlfriend's little brother and sister are staying with us for the weekend. Her little brother is very mentally handicapped, and has a lot of negativity. (This is some far out stuff, so ignore if you're a total skeptic). We were told by a psychic that "ghostly" activity can target, and literally follow around mentally handicapped children. Needless to say, we never had any weird experiences at the old place until he stayed with us for a bit (read back on page 1). We haven't had anything go on at this place until tonight (the first night he's been here).

We put her brother to bed about 9, and the three of us were hanging out in our bedroom. I go out to get some water and notice everybody's shoes laying all over the sleeping Michael (the brother). This gave me all sorts of goosebumps, cause with our prior experiences, shoes seemed to be a favorite "toy." (Once again, read my post on page 1 for details). Go back out later, and the TV is on to channel 1, showing static obviously. Check Michael out, and all of the blankets we had set aside for her sister were covering him up. (Could be he got cold and did it himself, but I doubt it).

Now THIS is the freaky stuff. My girlfriend suggested I take pictures of the room, and see what comes out. So I do, thoroughly check it out on the LCD of the camera, and there's nothing out of the ordinary. Decide to go ahead and put it in iPhoto, and I get a little surprise. In one of the pictures, clear as friggin day, there is a dark silhouette of a person hovering over Michael. I check my camera, confused how the heck I missed that, and that picture is now just solid black. I call my girlfriend in, she sees it, and after the initial freak-out suggests it's my shadow. Unfortunately, there was no light behind me, just a light about 10 feet in front of me. Nonetheless, I go and try to recreate the shadow, with absolutely no luck. After that, we're convinced we actually got something on the picture, we go back to the computer, and it's gone. Not the photo, just the silhouette...the picture looks as it did when I first checked it out in the camera's LCD. This is about as cliche as ghost stories get, but I'm dead serious. I'm either going nuts (and my girlfriend too) or there's some spooky s**t going on here.