[Kerrigan]

I encounter a lot of homeless people everyday and my attitude towards them is indifference tempered by pity. I've heard lots of reasons why people become homeless, the chief reason being mental illness. But of the homeless people I encounter everyday, most of them seem to be sane, despite being dreadfully lonely and despondent.

So how do sane people become homeless?

It is difficult for me to imagine that a single mother could get injured, lose her job, and end up on the streets forever, but apparently this is quite common. However I still cannot conceive that a person would end up in a situation where nobody cares about him, and he has no recourse left. There has to be something he can do to pull himself from homelessness, isn't there?

[Kevin]

There are a lot of rich homeless people out there.

[Kerrigan]

Huh?

And hasn't MacNN had a homeless member or two? I believe one guy named Mike lived on the streets but posted here frequently.

[nonhuman]

I'm not sure where you live, but growing up in Berkeley and now living in San Francisco it's pretty easy to see that many, if not most, homeless people are mentally ill. Others have drug problems. Still others are simply in a hole they can't dig themselves out of.

I agree it's hard to see how you could get into a situation where it's impossible to get a job to feed yourself and your family, but I can imagine how it would be possible. First, they (obviously) have no address. It's hard to apply for a job without an address. The 'easy' jobs that every always seem to think of are service industry jobs. But those are simply impractical for the homeless. No one wants their food cooked or served by a homeless person, so unless the jobs provide showers and shaves/haircuts that's just out of the question. Then there are always things like menial labor. But most if not all of those jobs are union, and homeless people can't afford union dues.

So what jobs are there that are really open to the homeless? They can't do retail, they can't do service industry, they can't do union, they obviously can't do anything above that. About all that I can think of is if they take the same jobs as illegal immigrants. Although those aren't really jobs that provide much in the way of upwards mobility.

There's a large segment of the U.S. population that is one paycheck away from being homeless.

[gradient]

I read a statistic recently that said that approximately 60% of the US homeless population was ex-military. I'm not sure how accurate that is but it's a big problem regardless - it's unbelievable how those who dedicate their lives to their government can be supported so poorly. That's not a shot at the US either, I'm sure the statistics are similar in other countries (if what I read is true).

http://www.nchv.org/background.cfm

This organization says 1/3 of homeless men are ex-military (approx).

[olePigeon]

My dad was literally homeless when he was a kid. Both his dad and mom were working and living by each paycheck. Both of them lost their jobs within a month of each other. They ended up living in the car for several months before his dad got a job again.

In San Francisco I occasionally see a homeless guy in a near new suit. Just lost his job, nowhere to go.

[gradient]

That said, there are months were I've been a credit card away from being homeless. With the average consumer debt load in western society going up every year there must be a lot of people in that situation.

[DigitalEl]

Idiots call 911 all the time to report a damn dog hit by a car. I'm no animal lover, but I don't relish in the thought of one being harmed. Still, those calls annoy me. I often wonder how many homeless people they stepped over or avoided eye contact with while going to get their $4 coffee. No compassion for a human being, but they'll go out of their way to get help to a dog.

I don't do anything to help the homeless, but I don't swear at them or tell them to "get a job" as I walk by either.

I'm sure I had a point when I started this a few minutes ago, but damned if I know what it is now.

</rambling>

[DigitalEl]

That said, there are months were I've been a credit card away from being homeless.

No doubt, friend. I remember selling CDs at one of those they-rape-you-in-the-arse buy-it-back stores so that I could put $4.37 worth of gas in my car to go to my lame job. Seems like a lifetime ago, but it was just 6 years. Real humiliation, however, is borrowing money from your little brother.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

My dad was literally homeless when he was a kid. Both his dad and mom were working and living by each paycheck. Both of them lost their jobs within a month of each other. They ended up living in the car for several months before his dad got a job again.

[python]

A working car?!

Luxury!

When I were a lad I lived for three months in abandoned car at side t'road!* [/python]



*Actually true. My parents split up when I was fifteen and both decided they didn't want kids anymore.

Who'd have thought twenty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?

[gradient]

Originally Posted by DigitalEl

[/b]No doubt, friend. I remember selling CDs at one of those they-rape-you-in-the-arse buy-it-back stores so that I could put $4.37 worth of gas in my car to go to my lame job. Seems like a lifetime ago, but it was just 6 years. Real humiliation, however, is borrowing money from your little brother.

Man we are on the same page.... ...a few years back I couldn't afford a phone so my little brother gave me a hundred bucks to buy a pager cuz it would only cost me like $4.95 a month to use which made it doable. Everytime I look at a roll of quarters I still shudder. There are, of course, many people in far worse situations....... my dad has been homeless for fifteen years or so....... that in itself is a story I won't tell but needless to say people of all walks of life end up homeless for innumerable reasons.

[Link]

Originally Posted by DigitalEl

\ I'm no animal lover, but I don't relish in the thought of one being harmed. Still, those calls annoy me. I often wonder how many homeless people they stepped over or avoided eye contact with while going to get their $4 coffee. No compassion for a human being, but they'll go out of their way to get help to a dog.

You're not alone with that one, I always wondered why people have more compassion for animals than they do other people.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Link

You're not alone with that one, I always wondered why people have more compassion for animals than they do other people.

Animals don't vote for "the other guy". Animals don't whine at you if you're driving an SUV. Animals don't steal your TV. Animals don't stab you in the back after you've known them 20 years.

[Ω]

Originally Posted by Link

You're not alone with that one, I always wondered why people have more compassion for animals than they do other people.

Because due to our 'sentient' nature we deserve everything we have coming to us. "We are a virus with shoes"

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by screamingFit

There's a large segment of the World population that is one paycheck away from being homeless.

Fixed.

[ism]

I reckon it starts with getting married. Then getting screwed over by your wife, and so on. Well in some cases anyway.

(Just planning for the future)

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Animals don't vote for "the other guy". Animals don't whine at you if you're driving an SUV. Animals don't steal your TV. Animals don't stab you in the back after you've known them 20 years.

Animals also don't have the know-how to get a job.

BTW, there are homeless people living out on the street because they CHOOSE to.

Believe it or not.

There is a homeless "bag lady" around here that has TONS of money. But she thinks if she shows she does, people will want to steal it from her. So she just keeps it someplace, and never spends it.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

BTW, there are homeless people living out on the street because they CHOOSE to.

Believe it or not.

This is true. While, of course, not all homeless folks choose to be that way there's a significant number who do.
A while back our council decided to get rid of its homeless problem (about 500 people tops) by putting them (free of charge) in their own studio apartments (brand new, just built). A lot of those asked if they'd like to get off the street and into their own apartment actually refused and said they like living on the streets.

No, I don't get it either. But there ya go.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Kevin

There are some very few rich homeless people out there.

Fixed.

The original post is a common misconception - and no, anecdotal evidence doesn't count.
And the reason that 'lets give them an apartment, that'll solve the problem' way of solving the problem doesn't solve the problem is simple: Lack of skills to deal with the demands of living in an apartment (keeping it clean, warm and habitable) and loneliness.

I suggest working for 'Shelter' one Christmas, Doofy. It's a real eye opener.

[ambush]

Originally Posted by Kevin

There are a lot of rich homeless people out there.

Most idiotic post of the year!

Congrats

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

That is a common misconception - and no, anecdotal evidence doesn't count.

Doofy just gave another example. Not saying this is the norm. But some people, it's their way of life. They can't cope with the stresses of what he think of as "normal life" (And I can understand them) And that is all they have known.

Taken them away from that would be akin to culture shock.

Just like some people can't understand why still certain tribes in Africa don't "modernize"

They don't want to. They are perfectly happy the way they are.

Some are alcoholics or drug abusers that are just glad to be high or drunk. They don't need anything else.

[Kevin]

Echoo....

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ambush

Most idiotic post of the year!

Congrats

Tell me ambush, how many times a year do you spend with homeless people? How many have you talked to personally?

There are shelters and places for these people to stay at. Alot would rather live on the streets. That is all they know. That makes them content.

I know people that purposely get sent back to prison because they claim prison life is easy.

Free food, free place to live. No hassles as long as they do what they are told.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

And the reason that 'lets give them an apartment, that'll solve the problem' way of solving the problem doesn't solve the problem is simple: Lack of skills to deal with the demands of living in an apartment (keeping it clean, warm and habitable) and loneliness.

One of the main reasons for them refusing was that they thought their "community" would be broken up (i.e. loneliness). Of course, how the council was going to do it was with them all in the same block, so "John Doe in the next cardboard box over" would become "John Doe in the next apartment over".

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I suggest working for 'Shelter' one Christmas, Doofy. It's a real eye opener.

I'm aware of the problems.

[Mastrap]

Kevin, I was just posting with regard to your statement that there are a 'lot of rich homeless people out there'.

That's simply not true. As I've suggested to Doofy, working in a homeless shelter over Christmas is a real eye opener.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Kevin, I was just posting with regard to your statement that there are a 'lot of rich homeless people out there'.

Alot not meaning the majority. And in the small town I live on Mastrap, I know of 3 people this way. That is a lot of people to have money and still be homeless in such a town as this.

That's simply not true.

That I know these people? That they exist? Sure it is.

As I've suggested to Doofy, working in a homeless shelter over Christmas is a real eye opener.

Why just Christmas? I do it all year round. (Of course it's religious based, but religion isn't being taught or pushed in said shelter. The people doing it just happen to be believers)

Hence the reason I asked Ambush if he has ever spent time or talked to any of them.

[Spliffdaddy]

Where do I need to go in order to get one of those free UK apartments?

Sounds like a wonderful way to live!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Where do I need to go in order to get one of those free UK apartments?

The UK.

[ghporter]

One problem with the NCHV page that gradient posted is that they understate the support available to veterans of all kinds. The veteran, however, cannot be forced to take advantage of any of these forms of support, and sadly many of them are suffering from one mental issue or another. Note that one symptom of depression is emotional inertia-the depressed person just cannot get off his duff to do something for himself, which can include going in for treatment.

As both a U.S. veteran and a person who has suffered from clinical depression, I'm very much aware of both the homeless veteran problem and the problem of homeless people with mental problems. Both groups CAN be helped, but they must WANT to be helped, which means not only seeking help, but staying with it long enough for that help to work.

[ambush]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Tell me ambush, how many times a year do you spend with homeless people? How many have you talked to personally?

There are shelters and places for these people to stay at. Alot would rather live on the streets. That is all they know. That makes them content.

I know people that purposely get sent back to prison because they claim prison life is easy.

Free food, free place to live. No hassles as long as they do what they are told.

I've done volunteer work with children from the very poor, multhiethnic part of town (Côte-des-Neiges) I've seen parents on the verge of becoming homeless, I've talked to them too.

I've read a book from a guy who's been homeless in Montréal. I've seen countless documentaires on the matter, because it's an important problem in Montréal.

Most homeless people have never been raised properly (violence in their parents' couple, drug abuse, etc.). Or they're orphans and never had a family. They had no help, no education. They dropped school, got into drug problems. They can't work because of their mental issues or social disabilities (who wants a schizo for coworker?) and then they can't pay a rent, then they become homeless, don't have an address to get their welfare check posted too... etc.

People who like prison life have mental issues. In fact, most of the homeless are schizos, have problem with drugs and alcohol.

But hey, that's how it works in Montréal anyway. Maybe it's cool to be homeless where you live, tho.
But go ask the homeless guy on St-Catherine if he finds it cool to be on the streets when it's -20 outside? Each year, homeless people die here because of frostburns, hypothermia. Maybe they found it cool to die a slow, painful, cold death? Oh yeah.

Paleoconservatism regarding this issue kills me. Literally.

[Cody Dawg]

I think that a lot of people spiral downwards. Take a single mother with no job experience, no skills, no family to help her. She has no money. How will she live? Homeless shelters are far and few between and often have limits for the amount of time someone can be there.

The fact is that it is damned expensive to exist, period.

Inflation and soaring costs of living can beat the hell out of someone, you know?

If you doubt what I'm saying, remember that next time you pay an electric bill, water bill, notice that your car seems to require more and more money to fill it up, or you get a credit card bill that you cannot pay off in full at the end of a month. The fact that people carry a balance on any credit card is proof that living in this day and age is expensive. Some people cannot afford it.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ambush

I've done volunteer work with children from the very poor, multhiethnic part of town (Côte-des-Neiges) I've seen parents on the verge of becoming homeless, I've talked to them too.

Ok, but that is a totally different situation than I am talking about. And is irrelvent.

I've read a book from a guy who's been homeless in Montréal. I've seen countless documentaires on the matter, because it's an important problem in Montréal.

All of which put their particular spin on things. I've seen them too. Probably not the same ones...

Most homeless people have never been raised properly (violence in their parents' couple, drug abuse, etc.). Or they're orphans and never had a family. They had no help, no education. They dropped school, got into drug problems. They can't work because of their mental issues or social disabilities (who wants a schizo for coworker?) and then they can't pay a rent, then they become homeless, don't have an address to get their welfare check posted too... etc.

Ah, but where I live, these people ALWAYS can find a place to stay. They are given free living according to their pay. If they aren't getting ANYTHING, then they pay NOTHING. The State covers it. Even single mothers can get on this. They call it HUD. I know a single mother that cannot work because she has an autistic child that only pays $3 a month for her decent apartment (full central air and heating)

My point is, there is always options. Some people would rather just live in the streets that actually take the initiative to better their life. They are content at their place in life.

People who like prison life have mental issues.

Well of course. Actually Ambush, we all have mental issues. Some of us worse than others.
But that doesn't change the facts.

In fact, most of the homeless are schizos, have problem with drugs and alcohol.

I would not doubt this. But it's irrelevent to my point.

But hey, that's how it works in Montréal anyway. Maybe it's cool to be homeless where you live, tho.

Never said anything about it being cool

But go ask the homeless guy on St-Catherine if he finds it cool to be on the streets when it's -20 outside? Each year, homeless people die here because of frostburns, hypothermia. Maybe they found it cool to die a slow, painful, cold death? Oh yeah.

Don't know how it is on the Socialist Utopia of Montreal, but here in the states, these people have places to go to get out of the cold. I know, I know, we are evil capitolists. But the facts still remain.

Paleoconservatism regarding this issue kills me. Literally.

18 year old kids that think they have it all figured out kills me. You're still a young little punk Ambush. Just because you've read a few books doesn't make you any less wet behind the ears.

[Mastrap]

Oh good, ambush and Kevin are arguing on the internet. Excellent.


Kev, it looks like your town has excellent social services. I also applaud you for working with homeless people all year round - I wish more people would do the same.

Ambush's reality is different, but it looks like this is only the case because the situation in Montreal is different. Maybe because Montreal is bigger?

Looks to me like you just can't compare the two.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Kev, it looks like your town has excellent social services. I also applaud you for working with homeless people all year round - I wish more people would do the same.

It's just not my town. Most places in the US work this way. But that is irrevelent to my point Ambush was trying to argue. Which was some people are HAPPY living on the streets. Even though they have a CHOICE not to, they CHOOSE to.

Ambush's reality is different, but it looks like this is only the case because the situation in Montreal is different. Maybe because Montreal is bigger?

Looks to me like you just can't compare the two.

Not trying to compare the two really. Ambush was. Which had nothing to do with my post.

*shrug*

[willed]

I used to not understand this, but then I saw that '30 Days' documentary (from the guy who made Supersize Me). In one of them, he and his fiancee did minimum wage jobs for a month. They JUST ABOUT scraped by, living in pretty dimal conditions, until they got ill. One out-of-the-blue bill like that pushed them over the edge. And that was with two young, relatively healthy people working full time. Imagine if you had kids to look after and provide for. Hardly bears thinking about.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by willed

I used to not understand this, but then I saw that '30 Days' documentary (from the guy who made Supersize Me). In one of them, he and his fiancee did minimum wage jobs for a month. They JUST ABOUT scraped by, living in pretty dimal conditions, until they got ill. One out-of-the-blue bill like that pushed them over the edge. And that was with two young, relatively healthy people working full time. Imagine if you had kids to look after and provide for. Hardly bears thinking about.

Did they use any public assistence? That is what it's there for. LEAF, HUD, etc.

Of course I am sure they had TV and cable... .you know.. the necessities..

[Cody Dawg]

Kevin:

The conservatives, of which said party I am counted a member, don't realize this but public assistance in this country is abysmal. It's also limited. Also, did you know you HAVE to have an address to receive any relief, food stamps, WIC, etc? Otherwise they won't help you.

I used to not understand this, but then I saw that '30 Days' documentary (from the guy who made Supersize Me). In one of them, he and his fiancee did minimum wage jobs for a month. They JUST ABOUT scraped by, living in pretty dimal conditions, until they got ill. One out-of-the-blue bill like that pushed them over the edge. And that was with two young, relatively healthy people working full time. Imagine if you had kids to look after and provide for. Hardly bears thinking about.

That's an excellent point.

[Monique]

It is easy you just have to lose your job, unable to get unemployment insurance, leave in a province where the welfare cheques do not cover rent, et voila you are on the streets.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Kevin:

The conservatives, of which said party I am counted a member, don't realize this but public assistance in this country is abysmal.

Maybe where you live.. not around here. I am sure Florida has more problem dealing with PA because they also have more immigrants with no skills.

Also, did you know you HAVE to have an address to receive any relief, food stamps, WIC, etc? Otherwise they won't help you.

Well you have to start somewhere. Going for PA to get a place to live. Then you go for help for the other. Baby steps.

You have to WANT help, and actually make the initiative to help yourself as well.

No one is going to do it FOR YOU.

And that is alot of the problem. Some people would rather be miserable, and do nothing, than actually make an effort and improve their life.

Some people don't want to make an effort, and are just happy living on teh streets pandhandling. (No effort there really)

[freudling]

Multiple reasons, but can be broken down. From my experience in Canada living in big cities, about 50% of the homeless are mentally ill. It looks as though Schizophrenia is dominant. The other 50% could be construed as sane. That includes hippies, sane ones that lost their jobs, travellers, etc. Some don't have the choice, others, like the hippies, do.

Since welfare is so low in large cities, you can't afford to live in a place. Vacancy rates are low as well in most parts. This makes it difficult for someone who lost their job. Also, welfare is not guarnateed. So sane people sometimes end up out there. But, in many cases, they can find work if they want to, since there are numerous crap jobs available all the time.

For the insane, one solution would be to round them up. But they have rights against that. We can't make them take their meds. The task is expensive and untenable for the rights issue. Too many times these crazies charge at me; jump on cars like monkies; ask me to buy dope; ask for change... The hippies I ignore. In fact, it is easy to spot those who are sane. They do not have to be out there. But the same homeless people have been on the streets for years. It is not going to go away unless someone takes a radical approach to flushing them out.

I advocate the latter. We have a responsibility to care for the mentally sick. They are completely dysfunctional and, in some cases dangerous. My father witnessed a crazy homeless guy gut, alive, a person in a public washroom. They are not functional, not to be trusted, and have no place in our cities.

[ambush]

^ The most comprehensive post up to date. Word up!

[Cody Dawg]

I remember in college once buying a pizza and doling it out to myself over a week - I was so hungry. I was pretty broke. If something catastrophic had happened to me, well, I don't know...maybe I'd have been homeless also? I'm sure I'd have made do - I have a can-do attitude, but if you're depressed it's hard to motivate yourself to even seek out help.

It's a vicious cycle.

[Rolling Bones]

You want to see homeless.

Take a drive thru the warehouse/mini storage areas of Las Vegas.

You will see hundreds and hundreds sleeping in the roadside ditches.

Most are drunks.

To see it is unreal.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ambush

^ The most comprehensive post up to date. Word up!

Which is funny because he doesn't disagree with me.

[ambush]

oh, shut the **** up. please.

[Rolling Bones]

Originally Posted by ambush

oh, shut the **** up. please.

He won't.

Watch.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Rolling Bones

He won't.

Watch.

Why should I? Because some 18 year old "Internet bully" is making an ass out of himself?

That would be silly™

[Kevin]

Echoooo......

[TheMosco]

I work in the back bay area of Boston. This is probably one of the nicest areas in the city. A couple weeks ago I was coming out of the meeting. The back of the building faces a alley way (between boylston and newbury). I saw too bums smoking crack behind a dumpster 2 in the afternoon. These are the same guys that I had saw asking for money for the 2 years that I had been there. I didn't give them money before but I def wont give them any money now.