[Athens]

Does any one here do any serious prep work for survival? Been watching a show on preppers on National Geographics Channel and its amazing to what extent some people prep for things. Got me thinking about threats and what my level of security is. The sad part is what I have now is pretty pathetic yet it is probably a lot more then most people have done.

CANADIAN PREPPERS NETWORK
American Preppers Network - National Family Preparedness and Self-Reliance Organization

I didn't realize before tonight how many people actually prep. For those that have thought about it, what are you worried about most, what kind of prep work have you done?

[subego]

Nope. No reason in a big city.

[Waragainstsleep]

Paranoia or an excuse to hoard guns?

[subego]

Why not both?

[ShortcutToMoncton]

When the apocolypse finally comes, they'll be the last to die!

[PB2K]

eating cockroaches

[andi*pandi]

I've got a few gallons of water and some canned goods in the basement, but more prepping beyond a weekend snowed in/sans power is just a waste. Most canned goods will go bad before the apocalypse in 2022 anyhow. (The Mayans forgot to carry the one.)

[Athens]

Originally Posted by subego 

Nope. No reason in a big city.

I think that's flawed thinking because in the big city is where its going to be most difficult. Standard practice is having at least 3 days worth of food and water supply but as we saw with New Orleans and FEMA a large scale event could easily leave people on there own for 1-2 weeks.

My list of concerns in order

- Mega-thrust Earthquake (Very high chance in my life time)
- Major non Mega-thrust Earthquake (Extremely High)
- Nuclear Accident in Washington (Possible)
- Volcanic Eruption (Possible)
- Typhoon (Low Risk)
- Tsunami (Low Risk)
- Terrorist Attack (Low Risk)

Overall I've kept a 2 week supply of food and water in the house. Had water purification tablets but they have expired so I need to replace that. Enough ammo in the house to provide protection and to hunt with for a extended period of time. Not much in the way of any kind of fuel reserves but after watching some of these episodes there is a lot of areas I am week in.

I am also impressed with some people. The amount of fresh food that can be grown in a typical LA back yard is amazing.

[abby]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Overall I've kept a 2 week supply of food and water in the house. Had water purification tablets but they have expired so I need to replace that. Enough ammo in the house to provide protection and to hunt with for a extended period of time. Not much in the way of any kind of fuel reserves but after watching some of these episodes there is a lot of areas I am week in.

you're like my parents. we also have a lot of extra supplies here.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Athens 

I think that's flawed thinking because in the big city is where its going to be most difficult.

The flawed thinking is putting a high value on "survival" when living precisely where survival would be most difficult.

If I cared that much, I'd move. If I'm not moving, there's no reason to waste resources on the illusion of safety.


If you're actually interested in survival, here's what goes on the list, in order of importance:

1) Easily defensible location with at least a mile between you and your closest neighbor.
2) As much ammo as you can store.
3) Half-dozen AK pattern assault rifles.
4) Daddy German Shepherd.
5) Mommy German Shepherd.
6) Everything else.


Edit: there's a reasonable debate to be had about number three. An AK stands up well to poor handling, but in a NATO country you're more likely to be able to scavenge up a NATO round. OTOH, in terms of number one, if either 5.56x45mm or 7.62x39mm works ideally, you're doing it wrong. You want to be engaging people at 7.62x51mm ranges.

[Athens]

I would have put Shelter, Food, Water, in position 1, 2 and 3...

Then Communications, Transportation, Fuel

Tent, Emergency Food Packs, Bottled water and purification tablets, CB Radio, Sat Phone, Truck and extra gas Jugs. I'm not worried to much about having to defend against other people but cant discount the need to hence the weapons and ammo we already have. But in the city access to food and water is going to be difficult.


Worst Case Quake would do serious damage to Vancouver, Victoria, Seattle, Portland, Sacramento and everything in between those cities. A Tsunami generated from Cascadia Subduction Zone would devastate all the coast lines up and down from Alaska to Mexico. Mount St Helens could erupt, adding a massive ash cloud to the situation limiting air response and potential nuclear dust if the reactor in Washington had a partial meltdown from Earth Quake Damage.
It’s not the quake itself that worries me but the lack of response ability of authorities. When the worst case mega-thrust quake happens which we are due for I can’t expect much help from the Emergency Authorities from either Canada or the US arriving quickly just due to the scale of the area affected. Looking at what happened with Katrina a few years back I can see the need for being self-dependent for a month.
The south and east have the hurricanes to contend with. The central parts of North America has the tornados, but possible Earthquakes too. The West has Earth Quakes and Tsunami’s.

I just happen to live in an area that could see a scale of disaster that we have not dealt with before.

[subego]

Shelter is number one on my list. If for some reason I didn't put enough food and water in number six, I use number two and three to take yours.

As for the disaster scenario you describe (or even a 10th of it), if you've survived the event, why on earth would you want to hunker down with all that shit?

What you need to do is get out. This is a day's walk, even in the over-the-top scenario you bring up. You don't need supplies to survive for a day.

[Athens]

If that happened my first stop depending on the situation would be Stave Lake and go camping. Lots of fuel, water and hunting for food, defendable. If it was really really bad, or say that Nuclear Plant in Washington did have a partial meltdown I would trek east to Alberta. But the ability to get out might be limited with all the bridges and few routes that could be damaged and the land slides. And the routes might be limited to emergency traffic only since there are so few routes. The best alternative route might not be a option depending on if the border gets closed due to the emergency. But Travel through Washington to get to Alberta is the plan B route if no other choice. Just a serious hassal with the pets and the guns so might end up being stuck in the disaster zone.

I wouldn't take it to the extreme I see on that show but there is so much more to do.

[subego]

I don't see how that's superior to the nearest civilized region outside the area of immediate devastation.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by subego 

I don't see how that's superior to the nearest civilized region outside the area of immediate devastation.

Nearest civilized region could be impossible to get to. The only 2 roads leading out to Hope and beyond could easily be impassible by rock slides or designated for emergency traffic only. Travel through Washington State may be the only option and its a pain in the @ss to bring Guns across the US and Animals. And considering the possible amount of damage to the region its debatable if the borders would even be open in the first place. We are pretty isolated as for escaping the region. Hunkering down in the wilderness is solid option.

Better picture, only 3 escape routes really, east which could be taken out by rock slides, North via the far West of the lower mainland, in any quake not a chance I can get to that because of the number of bridges I would have to take which wouldn't be standing and that west road north would absolutely be closed from rock slides. Last option south to Seattle but everything that way would be equally devastated. So not many options.

[subego]

Where is this natural disaster equates to closing the border coming from? You're not Mexico.

[Shaddim]

Prepper? That anything like a fluffer?

[subego]

It's what Preppies want to be called these days.

So, yeah.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by subego 

Where is this natural disaster equates to closing the border coming from? You're not Mexico.

No phones, no power, no computers, I'm pretty sure the border would be closed. But I just realized that if I am at work, I'm cut off from my house and my supplies :O

Have you seen that show about preppers?

Doomsday Preppers - National Geographic Channel

[subego]

In two days I can walk 40km. I'm lowballing it to account for less than ideal travel conditions.

Assuming I live on a coast, which is going to halve the possible places I can go, that still gets me anywhere in a 2,500 square kilometer area.

That's almost the entire state of Rhode Island, and all of it would have to be trashed to hell to satisfy your scenario, not to mention I'm still out of it by the end of the second day.

There are more likely occurrences to be worrying about.

[subego]

As for closing the border, in that sort of situation the only way we could accomplish it is to start shooting you as you tried to get across.

We're not going to do that.

[Athens]

I love the guy that turned his pool into a fish pond. Fishes daily in his back yard !! lol

[subego]

I don't have a survival kit, or cable.

[Athens]

be amazed at how many people don't even keep some meds in supply in case of a disaster. I mean if I had to take a bunch of pills to live each day, I would have a month supply put away just in case.

[subego]

That's different. I've got some which are pretty critical, so I never go lower than a month's supply.

[SSharon]

I enjoy watching the show, but I'm not about to start spending money prepping. I have enough food/water for at least a week. Some of the underground bunkers are very cool though.

Even with little to no preparation and a pathetic response from government, how many people died in Katrina? A quick search says fewer than 2,000. Almost 10 times that number of people die annually because they don't wear seat belts.

[subego]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

Even with little to no preparation and a pathetic response from government, how many people died in Katrina? A quick search says fewer than 2,000. Almost 10 times that number of people die annually because they don't wear seat belts.

And how many of those people died because of lack of food and water? I'd guess close to zero.

Likewise, even though I don't keep a full set of emergency supplies around all the time, if a frigging hurricane is coming, I just might find time to slip out to the Walgreens beforehand.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by subego 

Nope. No reason in a big city.

Prepping has always been a natural thing for me b/c I grew up in the woods. Now that I'm living in a big city, prepping involves keeping another location ready in case of an evacuation (and for vacations, too, I guess). It's a hassle sometimes, but it has come in handy for a couple of hurricanes already.

The gun collection was a given, and there's no sense having them if you don't know how to use them. Just in case this is someone's idea of how to eat after the disaster.

I guess that's the ultimate "prepper" reference right there. If folks are seriously worried about SHTF or TEOTWAWKI, they'd better study that site, because there will always be plenty of people in those situations.

[Athens]

What I like are some of the gardens. Its not just about prepping but I see it as saving money too. The one dude with the pool that holds fish is nifty, Can produce eggs, milk, fish, produce at zero cost. The feed for the animals goes and purifies the water, the droppings from the animals feeds the plants and fish. And its all done on a typical suburban lot. I mean the savings on the food budget alone makes that kind of setup worth it. One of the episodes showed a guy who made bio fuel from waste cooking oil, worked out to be a $1.00 a gallon to run his truck.

Im inspired by the cost savings not just the idea of prepping for emergencies. But self sustaining setups like that, if it was common would reduce the foot print people have on the planet. Basically the only thing really needed for that one guys setup is a supply of water.

Its the video on the first page Doomsday Preppers - National Geographic Channel

Self Sustaining Suburbia, check it out.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Athens 

What I like are some of the gardens. Its not just about prepping but I see it as saving money too.

Time equals money.

[Athens]

Yup, spend time saving money to free up more capital for investment returns. If the average family spends 800 a month on food, and can reallocate that to investments, in a year that's an additional 9000 to invest. The initial cost of setting up a automated green house that's self sufficient plus the couple hours a day in maintaining it is well worth the effort. Add to that the more nutritious foods, the physical work out involved and avoiding the chemicals and artificial products put in the food in the first place leading to healthier more productive lives reducing costs on medical care. The carbon foot print is reduced, its just a win win situation all ways around.

[subego]

$800 divided by 60 hours equals $13 and some change per hour.

If this is a good ratio for you I suggest spending those hours looking for a better gig.

[subego]

Seriously. **** you AT&T.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by subego 

$800 divided by 60 hours equals $13 and some change per hour.

If this is a good ratio for you I suggest spending those hours looking for a better gig.

You didn't factor in the cost of driving to the store, the time shopping for goods. And considering we are talking about off time, hours of non pay anyways for non pay activities, the $17+ per adjusted hour seems like a good deal. The social and family benefit cant have a price put on it.

[subego]

Peapod that ****er.

[andi*pandi]

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Gardens are nice. Many cities/towns have bylaws that prohibit "farm" animals on residential lots, however. (E.g. you can't have chickens or goats or whatever in your back yard.)

[Athens]

Some cities are changing this. Vancouver made changes to allow Chickens a few years ago and backyard farmers are trying to get other animals allowed.

Social Planning, Food Policy, Backyard Chickens

Kinda limited and pretty restrictive still but its heading that way. New York, Chicago, Portland, Seattle have also adopted chicken laws. But city by-laws def get in the way of sustainable living.

[subego]

Key West has feral chickens all over the place, just chillin. It's actually kind of cool until the roosters flip out an hour before sunrise.

There's more than one sign which admonishes you to "please kill a chicken as you leave".

[tightsocks]

Easily defensible location with at least a mile between you and your closest neighbor.

No way can a small nuclear family defend a camp. You need a decent sized group to cover 360 deg 24/7.
What is the point of having a camp for your family if the men wind up dead and the women as sex slaves and your supplies are looted??

[subego]

This shouldn't be a problem if you have friends who don't have their own camp.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

Key West has feral chickens all over the place, just chillin. It's actually kind of cool until the roosters flip out an hour before sunrise.

There's more than one sign which admonishes you to "please kill a chicken as you leave".

You sure it didn't say, "please choke a chicken as you leave"? <----Inappropriate Conch humor that you probably wouldn't understand unless you've been there.


You'd think the army of stray cats would have whittled down the population by now. Well, I guess they aren't really "strays", but there are several hundred running around that are considered "community dependents". When last I was there, I stayed at a friend's place on Stock Island. I put out 20lbs of cat food in one week.

[subego]

I think you answered your own question. Kitty kibble doesn't run away.

[andi*pandi]

There were stray/feral chickens on Hawaii and Cayman too I think... they get loose when there's a storm.

[Athens]

I just watched a old BBC Film called Threads from 1984... I don't think I want to live through every possible disaster there is :|

[Waragainstsleep]

I think chickens look too big for a lot of cats. Certainly wouldn't stop all of them but there is two stray peacocks in my village (yes I know they are bigger than chickens) and my cat doesn't go near them when they come into my yard. There is also a healthy pheasant population in this country too and they are just as dumb as chickens.

Its foxes that usually go for chickens. And apparently even they steer clear of peacocks since the two of them have roamed free for the last 20 years give or take.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by subego 

It's what Preppies want to be called these days.

So, yeah.

That's funny—that was my first thought, as well.

[subego]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

There were stray/feral chickens on Hawaii and Cayman too I think... they get loose when there's a storm.

I remember P. J. O'Rourke's evidence communism had ruined Nicaragua was there were no chickens running around, unlike everywhere else south of the Rio Grande.