[[email protected]]

The following is a link to a news story about the New Civilain Deaths scandal in Iraq.

Last November, U.S. Army troops killed in cold blood as many as 24 people in their house in the middle of the night. The youngest was 2 and the oldest was 78.The Army tried to cover it up like always, but a young reporter from Iraq took video before the Army could go in and do a clean-up job.

Hopfully this won't get pushed under the rug, like everything else. This is just more fuel for the fire. I hope they hang the bastards that did it. I think is is a new low for the U.S. Army.

This is what happens when the President and his cabinet are more concerned with making money than being human. Please remember this when you vote in Nov. What is our "christian" leader going to do about this?? My guess is not a damn thing.

I can't wait until Bush is out of office and can be charged for War Crimes and for Treason. His Excutive Privilege cloak that he is hiding under now can't protect him when he's out of office.

http://http://www.comcast.net/news/i...28/402043.html

[abe]

Originally Posted by kobi

The following is a link to a news story about the New Civilain Deaths scandal in Iraq.

Last November, U.S. Army troops killed in cold blood as many as 24 people in their house in the middle of the night. The youngest was 2 and the oldest was 78.The Army tried to cover it up like always, but a young reporter from Iraq took video before the Army could go in and do a clean-up job.

Hopfully this won't get pushed under the rug, like everything else. This is just more fuel for the fire. I hope they hang the bastards that did it. I think is is a new low for the U.S. Army.

This is what happens when the President and his cabinet are more concerned with making money than being human. Please remember this when you vote in Nov. What is our "christian" leader going to do about this?? My guess is not a damn thing.

I can't wait until Bush is out of office and can be charged for War Crimes and for Treason. His Excutive Privilege cloak that he is hiding under now can't protect him when he's out of office.

http://http://www.comcast.net/news/i...28/402043.html

Welcome to the P/L!

If you are coming here to preach a particular point of view you should know RIGHT AWAY that you will be absolutely nailed for spreading inaccurate information. You will also face stiff opposition to your point of view. But you probably already expect that.

So, review your information and edit your post or be prepared for the fall out of your lazy thinking.

Cheers!



btw, your link doesn't work.

[[email protected]]

Originally posted by abe

Welcome to the P/L!

If you are coming here to preach a particular point of view you should know RIGHT AWAY that you will be absolutely nailed for spreading inaccurate information. You will also face stiff opposition to your point of view. But you probably already expect that.

So, review your information and edit your post or be prepared for the fall out of your lazy thinking.

Cheers!



btw, your link doesn't work.

abe pointed out that my link didn't work.

I did get one part of the story wrong, or as abe calls it "inaccurate information" it was the Marines not the Army that did the killings.

Here's some more links from every major news website:

Yahoo: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060529/...investigations

MSNBC:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13010281/

Fox:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197316,00.html

Ruters:http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...archived=False

If these links don't work. Just google it.

Well now it looks like Republician Senator John Warner wants to get re-elected. He's going againist Bush and calling for a probe into the killings.

Amen and great for him.

[Spliffdaddy]

Yeah, it's the very same "scandal" that's been reported at least 4 different times over the last few months. They're hoping it will somehow "stick" this time. Must be a slow news week again. Everytime it's reported you'll notice that there are only 2 witnesses quoted. And neither was there. One is an "unnamed source" and the other is a well-known Bush critic that has retired from the military (Murtha).

edit: oh look. the liberal Republican senator from Virginia has chimed-in. The liberal press calls him a "maverick" because he always sides with Democrats (see: prisoner abuse "scandal"). Republicans simply call him a "moderate", which is a polite way of saying he's a liberal.

I'm sure we'll soon see some interesting comments from others in the anti-Bush peacenik crowd. Nancy Pelosi won't be able to stop herself from adding to the hype. Here we go again. Lots of allegations with no facts to support the allegations. I imagine this sort of thing will work itself into a frenzy before November. Remember the Democratic motto: "It's not the facts, it's the seriousness of the allegations".

Lately, the news media has an extremely bad track record of reporting facts. My bet is that this over-hyped 'scandal' will follow in the footsteps of the last 50 'scandals' and will merely fade into the sunset - by virtue of its apparent lack of supporting facts.

So, tell me, what *are* the facts? Don't tell me the hearsay and speculation. Just the known facts.

I'll wait.

[ghporter]

Funny, I thought that the incident involved Marines. The USMC is working very hard on this particular issue, which seems to be a breakdown in discipline and command. The DoD is currently investigating this event, with a number of Marines implicated in having retaliated against a village because of a recent and nearby Marine casualty.

Now before you go saying "this is unconsionable," and without my endorsing such acts, let me remind you that this is something that happened in the context of unconventional warfare. That means that the only people wearing uniforms (and frankly the only ones following ANY rules) are OUR troops. They are targeted by the insurgents and reviled by the people they are supposed to be protecting and liberating. So when day after day people you know and like get shot to death or blown up, you stop thinking professionally and start thinking personally, which is bad. And think about this: the insurgents INTENTIONALLY go around killing and maiming men, women and children (remember their little bomb that targeted GIs handing out candy to kids?) ALL THE TIME. That is incredibly appalling to me. I do not excuse the breakdown that these Marines apparently suffered, nor even their change from professional to personal thought. But I can understand it as part of being human.

Finally, don't start slinging mud until you've walked in it a while. People without any military experience (as GIs or even knowing active GIs) are the last people to discuss such incidents with credibility. You cannot know how it is to be in the military and in harm's way.

[abe]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Funny, I thought that the incident involved Marines. The USMC is working very hard on this particular issue, which seems to be a breakdown in discipline and command. The DoD is currently investigating this event, with a number of Marines implicated in having retaliated against a village because of a recent and nearby Marine casualty.

Now before you go saying "this is unconsionable," and without my endorsing such acts, let me remind you that this is something that happened in the context of unconventional warfare. That means that the only people wearing uniforms (and frankly the only ones following ANY rules) are OUR troops. They are targeted by the insurgents and reviled by the people they are supposed to be protecting and liberating. So when day after day people you know and like get shot to death or blown up, you stop thinking professionally and start thinking personally, which is bad. And think about this: the insurgents INTENTIONALLY go around killing and maiming men, women and children (remember their little bomb that targeted GIs handing out candy to kids?) ALL THE TIME. That is incredibly appalling to me. I do not excuse the breakdown that these Marines apparently suffered, nor even their change from professional to personal thought. But I can understand it as part of being human.

Finally, don't start slinging mud until you've walked in it a while. People without any military experience (as GIs or even knowing active GIs) are the last people to discuss such incidents with credibility. You cannot know how it is to be in the military and in harm's way.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Funny, I thought that the incident involved Marines. The USMC is working very hard on this particular issue, which seems to be a breakdown in discipline and command. The DoD is currently investigating this event, with a number of Marines implicated in having retaliated against a village because of a recent and nearby Marine casualty.

Now before you go saying "this is unconsionable," and without my endorsing such acts, let me remind you that this is something that happened in the context of unconventional warfare. That means that the only people wearing uniforms (and frankly the only ones following ANY rules) are OUR troops. They are targeted by the insurgents and reviled by the people they are supposed to be protecting and liberating. So when day after day people you know and like get shot to death or blown up, you stop thinking professionally and start thinking personally, which is bad. And think about this: the insurgents INTENTIONALLY go around killing and maiming men, women and children (remember their little bomb that targeted GIs handing out candy to kids?) ALL THE TIME. That is incredibly appalling to me. I do not excuse the breakdown that these Marines apparently suffered, nor even their change from professional to personal thought. But I can understand it as part of being human.

Finally, don't start slinging mud until you've walked in it a while. People without any military experience (as GIs or even knowing active GIs) are the last people to discuss such incidents with credibility. You cannot know how it is to be in the military and in harm's way.

FFS!

These so called "troops" were targeted by an IED. These troops stayed in a civilian area getting kids to them by spreading candy. They are the only ones to blame. There is nothing illegal about attacking foreign troops in your country.

These so called "soldiers" slaughtered 24 innocent human beings and you start shifting blame! You were in the military IIRC and yet you take the time to defend these sick bastards who tarnish your fellow troops. Sickening!

A 10-year-old girl told The Times of London this weekend that US soldiers deliberately shot and killed almost her entire family as she lay hiding in the corner.

Iman Hassan described how she heard the dying groans of her grandfather, mother, father, two uncles and a young cousin.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5022380.stm

It doesn't matter what happened before. This is a complete breakdown in discipline and a complete breakdown in leadership by their superiors.

But as usual this will be silenced (by ignoring it) and then the US will slap a few of these soldiers on the wrist.

And if you think this is the only instance of this happening in Iraq (and Afghanistan) you are wrong.

[von Wrangell]

In response to abe's sig:

Closer and closer to mankind comes their Reckoning: yet they heed not and they turn away.

[Spliffdaddy]

Good thing I'm not a Marine and I wasn't there. I may have cleaned out the entire vicinity just to make sure I had half a chance of getting the bombers.

I'll go on record as suggesting that there would be fewer IEDs if our soldiers were allowed to kill everyone in the surrounding neighborhoods after a blast occurred. Ain't like nobody saw some insugents burying a bomb nearby.

It's a war and we should do what it takes to decisively win. To hell with the feelings of the worthless "global community".

[[email protected]]

Thanks von. Finally there is a voice of itelligence and reason on this board. I was starting think that what they say about mac owners wasn't true. You know that mac owners are intellegent, college educated, have money,better informed, etc.... The money part I can see but the educated part was seriously lacking. All I could see was a bunch of people who get their news from Fox news.

Fact of the matter is that nobody is watching our troops. Nobody. When you have taken away the checks and balances, there is nobody to stand up for what is right.

Somebody asked if the reason this story is coming up again was because of a "slow news week". Actually the republicans gave us a bunch of news storys this week. The Abramoff scandal probe gave us Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert. Wow what are the odds?? The rebublicans are 2 for 2 for having a corrupt/dirty Speaker of the House. Tom Delay and now Dennis Hastert.

Vice Pres. Cheney is going to have to testify in the leak scandal case.

There was even a story that Karl Rove was indicted in the same leak scandal. That story was denied of course. We'll see in this next week.

Speaking of that didn't Bush say that he would fire anybody in on his staff if they were involved? If that's true then why does Rove still have his job?

[vmarks]

Except that in your rush, you all believe this has happened.

Especially von Wrangell, who is suggesting that it isn't just Marines in Iraq, but in Afghanistan as well.

He and the rest of you would do well to read the following:

Mr. Murtha's Rush to Judgment
Sunday, May 28, 2006; B06

A year ago I was charged with two counts of premeditated murder and with other war crimes related to my service in Iraq.

My wife and mother sat in a Camp Lejeune courtroom for five days while prosecutors painted me as a monster; then autopsy
evidence blew their case out of the water, and the Marine Corps dropped all charges against me
["Marine Officer Cleared in Killing of Two Iraqis," news story, May 27, 2005].

So I know something about rushing to judgment, which is why I am so disturbed by the remarks of Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.)
regarding the Haditha incident ["Death Toll Rises in Haditha Attack, GOP Leader Says," news story, May 20].

Mr. Murtha said, "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."
In the United States, we have a civil and military court system that relies on an investigatory and judicial process to make determinations based on evidence.

The system is not served by such grand pronouncements of horror and guilt without the accuser even having read the investigative report. Mr. Murtha's position is particularly suspect when he is quoted by news services as saying that the strain of deployment "has caused them [the Marines] to crack in situations like this."

Not only is he certain of the Marines' guilt but he claims to know the cause, which he conveniently attributes to a policy he opposes. Members of the U.S. military serving in Iraq need more than Mr. Murtha's pseudo-sympathy. They need leaders to stand with them even in the hardest of times.

Let the courts decide if these Marines are guilty. They haven't even been charged with a crime yet, so it is premature to presume their guilt -- unless that presumption is tied to a political motive.

ILARIO PANTANO
Jacksonville, N.C.
The writer served as a Marine enlisted man in the Persian Gulf War and most recently as a platoon commander in Iraq.
(WashPost, 5-28-06)

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by vmarks

Except that in your rush, you all believe this has happened.

Especially von Wrangell, who is suggesting that it isn't just Marines in Iraq, but in Afghanistan as well.

Read up on Bagram Airbase for starters and then post less propaganda.

[[email protected]]

I can't believe spliffdaddy's post. Why would any person say something like that? It's thinking like that causes hate. The hated of Americans around the world. Here's a clue guys, it's not our job to police the world. It's not our right to kill because we can. It's not our right to build nations when we can't take care of our own.

vmarks........I'm sorry to hear that you were put on trial for something that you didn't do. That's why there is a justice system. Just be glad that the evidence didn't point your way. Every situation is different. Hopefully given that experience, you can get past your hate for Mr. Murtha and look at situations differently.

[abe]

Originally Posted by kobi

Thanks von. Finally there is a voice of itelligence and reason on this board. I was starting think that what they say about mac owners wasn't true. You know that mac owners are intellegent, college educated, have money,better informed, etc.... The money part I can see but the educated part was seriously lacking. All I could see was a bunch of people who get their news from Fox news.

Fact of the matter is that nobody is watching our troops. Nobody. When you have taken away the checks and balances, there is nobody to stand up for what is right.

Somebody asked if the reason this story is coming up again was because of a "slow news week". Actually the republicans gave us a bunch of news storys this week. The Abramoff scandal probe gave us Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert. Wow what are the odds?? The rebublicans are 2 for 2 for having a corrupt/dirty Speaker of the House. Tom Delay and now Dennis Hastert.

Vice Pres. Cheney is going to have to testify in the leak scandal case.

There was even a story that Karl Rove was indicted in the same leak scandal. That story was denied of course. We'll see in this next week.

Speaking of that didn't Bush say that he would fire anybody in on his staff if they were involved? If that's true then why does Rove still have his job?

THIS is a perfect example of how the left unconsciously acts as a tool to support the words and actions of those who wish this country to fail in it's mission in Iraq.

And some might say that von wants the Islamic jihadists to inflict enough damage to the US that it will be forced to it's knees.

kobi, von Wrangell is Muslim and I personally think he would be quite happy to have our system of government eliminated and for Islam to take over. Not that I believe ALL Muslims feel as he does.

You and the other people who protest the war are free to do so. But this is what I want you to remember whenever you protest. There are people like von Wrangell or worse who gain comfort and encouragement every time you slam this country and the government or the military mission in Iraq.

THEY ARE DEPENDING ON YOU FOR THEIR SUCCESS.

You are their tool.

[von Wrangell]

Seek help.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Good thing I'm not a Marine and I wasn't there. I may have cleaned out the entire vicinity just to make sure I had half a chance of getting the bombers.

I'll go on record as suggesting that there would be fewer IEDs if our soldiers were allowed to kill everyone in the surrounding neighborhoods after a blast occurred. Ain't like nobody saw some insugents burying a bomb nearby.

It's a war and we should do what it takes to decisively win. To hell with the feelings of the worthless "global community".

OK, that does it. Before I felt just the *slightest* remorse for insulting you--no more. Your idiocy is so extreme that I hesitate to take it seriously, thinking perhaps you're pulling our legs. However, you have repeatedly demonstrated on these forums a mentality so revolting in its crass repugnance that I dare say you should be banned from these forums, if not from civilized society in general.

Seriously, any mods reading this? Why is it that Ca$h gets banned for his silly arguments, yet Spliffdaddy is allowed to stay on these forums spreading such irrational, incendiary hatred and disregard for human life? There should be a rule against people like Spliffdaddy.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Seek help.

Agreed. (You were wrong about marijuana though)

[Spliffdaddy]

Spliffdaddy - spreading irrational, incendiary hatred and disregard for human life, since October 2001.

"There should be a rule against people like Spliffdaddy."

^ typical liberal. Always trying to silence the non-politically correct speech.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by abe
THIS is a perfect example of how the left unconsciously acts as a tool to support the words and actions of those who wish this country to fail in it's mission in Iraq.

And some might say that von wants the Islamic jihadists to inflict enough damage to the US that it will be forced to it's knees.

kobi, von Wrangell is Muslim and I personally think he would be quite happy to have our system of government eliminated and for Islam to take over. Not that I believe ALL Muslims feel as he does.

You and the other people who protest the war are free to do so. But this is what I want you to remember whenever you protest. There are people like von Wrangell or worse who gain comfort and encouragement every time you slam this country and the government or the military mission in Iraq.

THEY ARE DEPENDING ON YOU FOR THEIR SUCCESS.

You are their tool.

abe how narrow minded are you? Please take your blinders off and join the rest of the world.

I realize that von Wrangell is muslim. I can read. In the same breath how can you tell me that I'm a tool and that my thoughts and words are the reason that the Iraq war will fail??

The Iraq war failed when we invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9-11.

The war failed when America was lied too about WMD's.

The War failed when George Bush announced "Mission Accomplished" on a aircraft carrier, all the while our soldiers were dying and being killed. What is the count up to tonight???

The War failed when we invaded without enough troops to maintain control.

The War failed when the Sunni and Shi'as started a civil war that our troops are in the middle of.

The War failed when George Bush was re-elected in 2004.

You are sure quick to call names when your backed in a corner. Any war can be won. You just have to decide what will it cost to be won. I think this country has payed enough for this war. How mant trillion are we in the hole????

Yes protest is protected; for or against the war. Thank god that right hasn't been taken away.

The Right sees everything through rose colored glass. Everything that they do is for the good of the country, the war, the war on terror, etc.......
This administration has lied to everyone one of us, every day that it has been in power. They have scared the public into believing what ever they say is gospel. The Right has used the power of the Religious Right and being Christian to get their way. Every pastor was just teaching what they were being taught. What they taught is what the government wanted you to learn. There is no separation of church and state under George Bush.

Look up lobbying and learn the process. I don't have time to go into it.

This is what a tool is. Someone who helps spread the lies that are handed down via Fox news and people like Rush, and Ann Couter. Someone who doesn't question what they see and what they are told. Someone who can tell the truth from a lie. Someone who is so scared to do anything on their own.

Next you'll be telling me that water isn't wet anymore. Afterall you heard it on Fox news, George Bush said it himself.

The problem is that if you say a lie enough times then it can become true.

That is all that I hear from the Right.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Always trying to silence the non-politically correct speech.

I'm all for political incorrectness; but when it comes to killing innocent families, you'll have to excuse me if I don't share your views.

[Spliffdaddy]

When it comes to killing babies, I don't share your views.

Reckon we're even.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by kobi

bleh

Texas failed at employing qualified English teachers.

[abe]

Originally Posted by itistoday

OK, that does it. Before I felt just the *slightest* remorse for insulting you--no more. Your idiocy is so extreme that I hesitate to take it seriously, thinking perhaps you're pulling our legs. However, you have repeatedly demonstrated on these forums a mentality so revolting in its crass repugnance that I dare say you should be banned from these forums, if not from civilized society in general.

Seriously, any mods reading this? Why is it that Ca$h gets banned for his silly arguments, yet Spliffdaddy is allowed to stay on these forums spreading such irrational, incendiary hatred and disregard for human life? There should be a rule against people like Spliffdaddy.

Ahhhh! Spoken like a true believer. Certain things just shouldn't be spoken, right?

Hey, he didn't insult the Prophet so you can't go to the streets in protest. So you advocate eliminating his voice??? When YOUR offensive points of view are allowed????

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

When it comes to killing babies, I don't share your views.

They're fetuses, embryos, cells, and they're not "human" till around 3 years of age. I'm not going to argue about this here though, that would be "derailing" the thread.

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Reckon we're even.

Hardly.

[[email protected]]

Spliffdaddy needs to smoke some more. He's not high enough. He's starting to be a comedy writer. By the way where did I type the word Bleh?

[spauldingg]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

One is an "unnamed source" and the other is a well-known Bush critic that has retired from the military (Murtha).

While you and your ilk continue swiftboating veterans like Kerry, Murtha, Tillman, Clark, and others, let us, on this Memorial day, review, shall we:

President George W. Bush - served four years of a six years Nat'l Guard commitment. The circumstances of his early separation from state-side service are still controversial. But he did say this:

George W. Bush on sacrifice:

"I've been to war. I've raised twins.
If I had a choice, I'd rather go to war."

Houston Chronicle, January 2002

Jeb Bush Florida Governor - did not serve
Karl Rove- did not serve
VP Dick Cheney -did not serve
Former VP Chief of Staff I. Lewis Scooter Libby - did not serve
Secretary of State and former NSA Condaleeza Rice - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve
Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - did not serve
Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay - did not serve
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
Majority Whip Mitch McConnell - did not serve
Rick Santorum, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - did not serve
Rush Limbaugh - did not serve
Sean Hannity - did not serve
Pat Buchanan - did not serve
Ann Coulter - did not serve
Ralph Reed - did not serve
Bill O'Reilly - did not serve
Michael Savage - did not serve
Bill Kristol - did not serve

[Spliffdaddy]

I like these late-night forum brawls.

Brings out the passion in some of the more reserved members.

It doesn't hurt that I'm a master at typing a few lines that can incite riots.

edited: And I do it with a 7 year old Packard Bell keyboard.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by abe

Hey, he didn't insult the Prophet so you can't go to the streets in protest. So you advocate eliminating his voice??? When YOUR offensive points of view are allowed????

I never advocated murdering innocent people, we're not talking about "offensive points of view", you make it sound like all he did was praise Jennifer Lopez.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

It doesn't hurt that I'm a master at typing a few lines that can incite riots.

edited: And I do it with a 7 year old Packard Bell keyboard.

So which are you? Hitler's pupil or just a pathetic troll?

[abe]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Spliffdaddy - spreading irrational, incendiary hatred and disregard for human life, since October 2001.

"There should be a rule against people like Spliffdaddy."

^ typical liberal. Always trying to silence the non-politically correct speech.

Fuzzy brained liberals, I tell ya!

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by itistoday

I never advocated murdering innocent people, we're not talking about "offensive points of view", you make it sound like all he did was praise Jennifer Lopez.

But you think it's OK to kill unborn children - and, perhaps, children under 3 years of age?

I'd have to say that's an offensive point of view, just the same.

What are you? a troll?

[spauldingg]

Dude, this meaningless "fuzzy brained" tripe is getting old. Where did you get that? Parroting Lush Ribald or some other halfwitted repuppet.?

You don't see us calling repubs "mindless autonomous sheep" every second post. No. We come up with different, creative ways to say say the same thing...

[[email protected]]

blinder wearing nazi's..........oops I mean conservatives. Sorry hand slipped while typing. Must be those TX teachers agian.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

But you think it's OK to kill unborn children - and, perhaps, children under 3 years of age?

I'd have to say that's an offensive point of view, just the same.

What are you? a troll?

Quit changing the subject and use some f*cking logic. Even if it is as morally wrong to abort a fetus as it is to kill hundreds of innocent families, how does that save you from being scum? The kindergarten "but he did it too!" mentality never worked in kindergarten and it sure as hell doesn't work for a 39 year old.

[abe]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

While you and your ilk continue swiftboating veterans like Kerry, Murtha, Tillman, Clark, and others, let us, on this Memorial day, review, shall we:

President George W. Bush - served four years of a six years Nat'l Guard commitment. The circumstances of his early separation from state-side service are still controversial. But he did say this:



Jeb Bush Florida Governor - did not serve
Karl Rove- did not serve
VP Dick Cheney -did not serve
Former VP Chief of Staff I. Lewis Scooter Libby - did not serve
Secretary of State and former NSA Condaleeza Rice - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve
Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - did not serve
Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay - did not serve
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
Majority Whip Mitch McConnell - did not serve
Rick Santorum, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - did not serve
Rush Limbaugh - did not serve
Sean Hannity - did not serve
Pat Buchanan - did not serve
Ann Coulter - did not serve
Ralph Reed - did not serve
Bill O'Reilly - did not serve
Michael Savage - did not serve
Bill Kristol - did not serve

Hahahahaha! What a FUNNY person you are!

[[email protected]]

And I thought wisdom came with age?? I'm with ya itistoday.

[[email protected]]

It is a joke!! A joke that were losing a war and that the people in charge have no one bit of military experience.

Bush doesn't count. If that man was doing anything but banging hookers and putting blow up his nose during that time; then I'll vote republican next election.

[abe]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

Dude, this meaningless "fuzzy brained" tripe is getting old. Where did you get that? Parroting Lush Ribald or some other halfwitted repuppet.?

You don't see us calling repubs "mindless autonomous sheep" every second post. No. We come up with different, creative ways to say say the same thing...

We come up with different, creative ways to say say the same thing, that we liberals want the USA to succumb to some kind of danger...ANY kind will do.

Your kind* USED to hijack planes to Cuba so you could work in the noble Castro led Communist utopia!

What have you done to deserve freedom? What do you give back to this country, besides grief?

*Disaffected, malcontented, cock-eyed, half-witted, liberal extremists.

[spauldingg]

It would be a joke if it was funny.

YOU were the one whining about me not "serving" in several recent threads, even though I told you I had tried to join, but military refused to take me simply because I refused to lie to them.

So look at your own fricken Party of Chickenhawks, and tell tell me again who serves:

Representative Jack Murtha (D-PA) - distinguished 37-year career in the U.S. Marine Corps, Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts, retired from the Marine Corps Reserve as a colonel in 1990.

Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71.
Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72

Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72

Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon.

Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam

Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two

Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat

Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea

Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam

Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953.

Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.

Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91

Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.

Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal.

Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit.

Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart.

Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat "V."

Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star.

Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57

Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military care:

US Decorations and Badges
Defense Distinguished Service Medal with 4 Oak Leaf Clusters

For Bosnia service
Joint Staff, end of tour
For service at U.S. Southern Command
For service as Commander of the Kosovo conflict
For service as Supreme Allied Commander, Europe
Distinguished Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)

1st Cavalry Division
Upon Retirement
Legion of Merit (with 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)

Shape 1979
D.A. Staff 1983
MJC 1986
MJC 1991
Silver Star Medal

Bronze Star Medal (with 1 Oak Leaf Cluster)

Purple Heart

Meritorious Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)

Army Commendation Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)

Combat Infantryman Badge

Parachutist Badge

Ranger Tab

Army Staff Identification Badge

Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification Badge

[abe]

Originally Posted by kobi

It is a joke!! A joke that were losing a war and that the people in charge have no one bit of military experience.

What military experience do you have?

Originally Posted by kobi

Bush doesn't count. If that man was doing anything but banging hookers and putting blow up his nose during that time; then I'll vote republican next election.

Ahhh! We have a new GOP voter, then!

[spauldingg]

Originally Posted by abe

Your kind* USED to hijack planes to Cuba so you could work in the noble Castro led Communist utopia!

What have you done to deserve freedom? What do you give back to this country, besides grief?

*Disaffected, malcontented, cock-eyed, half-witted, liberal extremists.

You are truely, truely a lost f*cking cause. Go say these things around people (even liberal!!! people) in the real world and see how many teeth you have left at the end of the day.

[[email protected]]

I don't have any Military experience. I'm not ashamed to say.

The point is that I'm not in charge of troops that are in a war zone. If your sending kids to kill or be killed; then you should have military experience.

[abe]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

It would be a joke if it was funny.

YOU were the one whining about me not "serving" in several recent threads, even though I told you I had tried to join, but military refused to take me simply because I refused to lie to them.

So look at your own fricken Party of Chickenhawks, and tell tell me again who serves:

Representative Jack Murtha (D-PA) - distinguished 37-year career in the U.S. Marine Corps, Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts, retired from the Marine Corps Reserve as a colonel in 1990.

Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71.
Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72

Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72

Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon.

Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam

Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two

Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat

Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea

Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam

Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953.

Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.

Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91

Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.

Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal.

Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit.

Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart.

Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat "V."

Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star.

Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57

Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military care:

US Decorations and Badges
Defense Distinguished Service Medal with 4 Oak Leaf Clusters

For Bosnia service
Joint Staff, end of tour
For service at U.S. Southern Command
For service as Commander of the Kosovo conflict
For service as Supreme Allied Commander, Europe
Distinguished Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)

1st Cavalry Division
Upon Retirement
Legion of Merit (with 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)

Shape 1979
D.A. Staff 1983
MJC 1986
MJC 1991
Silver Star Medal

Bronze Star Medal (with 1 Oak Leaf Cluster)

Purple Heart

Meritorious Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)

Army Commendation Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)

Combat Infantryman Badge

Parachutist Badge

Ranger Tab

Army Staff Identification Badge

Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification Badge

All that shows is that Republicans didn't need to join the military in order to learn about what is best for America. And that liberals, even WITH military service are still deficient.

With ALL of their distinguished service we STILL were victimized repeatedly until the ULTIMATE wake-up call on 9/11!

And then when it's clear that the problem of Islamic terrorism wasn't going to be quelled with just a band-aid the President declared a War on Terror.

And then when Saddam gave off signals indicating he was going to make trouble in Iraq, we sought to contain and pre-empt the harm he could do.

And through ALL of that the Democrats and liberals did NOTHING while the dangers mounted...FOR ALL THEIR MILITARY EXPERIENCE! How much good did their military experience do us leading up to and including 9/11's attack???

MEH!

YOU have done nothing to give back to this country but bitch, bitch, bitch.

[abe]

Originally Posted by kobi

I don't have any Military experience. I'm not ashamed to say.

The point is that I'm not in charge of troops that are in a war zone. If your sending kids to kill or be killed; then you should have military experience.

What a joke!

A former Marine Corps Commandant came out and SPECIFICALLY said civilian political leadership is better than military leadership in the White House!

[spauldingg]

Are you drunk? It's OK if you are, Abe, I have a minor beerbuzz myself. But re-quoting me with your edit thusly:

Re(vision)-Quote:
We come up with different, creative ways to say say the same thing, that we liberals want the USA to succumb to some kind of danger...ANY kind will do.

Jesus. Why on God's Blue Marble would us "fuzzybrains" want more damage to come to our shores? Why would I want me, or my mom or my brother or my friends all over the country to be killed, maimed, or damaged in any way? Us liberals are such super-duper shiny happy peacemongers that we don't want even want you to get hurt in any way.

Where do you get this stuff? Is it just an easy way to demonize us without the use of logic?

Really. Give me a logical argument as to why American Liberals would want evil crap to happen to ourselves. Go ahead. I'm waiting with brie and chablis breath.

[spauldingg]

Originally Posted by abe

And through ALL of that the Democrats and liberals did NOTHING while the dangers mounted...FOR ALL THEIR MILITARY EXPERIENCE! How much good did their military experience do us leading up to and including 9/11's attack???

Sober up.


The following is a transcript of the August 6, 2001, presidential daily briefing entitled Bin Laden determined to strike in US. Parts of the original document were not made public by the White House for security reasons.

Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate bin Laden since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."

After U.S. missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, bin Laden told followers he wanted to retaliate in Washington, according to a -- -- service.

An Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) operative told - - service at the same time that bin Laden was planning to exploit the operative's access to the U.S. to mount a terrorist strike.

The millennium plotting in Canada in 1999 may have been part of bin Laden's first serious attempt to implement a terrorist strike in the U.S.

Convicted plotter Ahmed Ressam has told the FBI that he conceived the idea to attack Los Angeles International Airport himself, but that in ---, Laden lieutenant Abu Zubaydah encouraged him and helped facilitate the operation. Ressam also said that in 1998 Abu Zubaydah was planning his own U.S. attack.

Ressam says bin Laden was aware of the Los Angeles operation. Although Bin Laden has not succeeded, his attacks against the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 demonstrate that he prepares operations years in advance and is not deterred by setbacks. Bin Laden associates surveyed our embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam as early as 1993, and some members of the Nairobi cell planning the bombings were arrested and deported in 1997.

Al Qaeda members -- including some who are U.S. citizens -- have resided in or traveled to the U.S. for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure that could aid attacks.

Two al-Qaeda members found guilty in the conspiracy to bomb our embassies in East Africa were U.S. citizens, and a senior EIJ member lived in California in the mid-1990s.

A clandestine source said in 1998 that a bin Laden cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks.

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ---- service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Sheikh" Omar Abdel Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full-field investigations throughout the U.S. that it considers bin Laden-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group or bin Laden supporters was in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives.

[[email protected]]

abe your a sad, sad man. Your views about the good of the country are yours alone. Your in the minority buddy.

Over 60% of the United States believes that Iraq war is on the wrong path.
80% of Americans believe that Bush is doing the worst job he can do.

Polls don't lie. Republicians do. Then that is turned into policy. And if their lies can't change policy; then they sign lies into laws.

Your going to have a rude awakeing the morning of Nov 3rd. Both the house and the senate will be under Democratic control. The right wing/GOP lies won't have any effect anymore.

We might even get the troops home before Jan of 07. Now wouldn't that be a shock.

[spauldingg]

Originally Posted by kobi

Polls don't lie. Republicians do. Then that is turned into policy. And if their lies can't change policy; then they sign lies into laws.

What a wonderful line. Wow. Just wow.

[[email protected]]

thanks spauldingg.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by kobi

Polls don't lie. Republicians do. Then that is turned into policy. And if their lies can't change policy; then they sign lies into laws.

Your going to have a rude awakeing the morning of Nov 3rd. Both the house and the senate will be under Democratic control. The right wing/GOP lies won't have any effect anymore.

What really sad is that you would seem to imply that the Democrats are the ones to be trusted. People like you REALLY show your extreme ignorance and naivety by delineating trustworthiness along party lines. Politics in general are corrupt and morally bankrupt in this country and if you think that this is either derived from or lives in only ONE of the parties, you are either ignorant, are lacking in intellectual ability, or a dupe.