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angelmb · Jun 20, 2009, 04:55 AM

Right Zoom. Make the OS X maximize button work like Windows.

OreoCookie · Jun 20, 2009, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Not really. If it's a fluid-width layout, why would you NOT want it to take up more space?

Because text becomes very hard to read. There is a reason typographers have known for a long time that one line should contain about 80 characters.

Originally Posted by shifuimam

These very forums are a great example - I'd much rather be able to see as much content on 'NN as possible at one time, rather than being restricted to an arbitrary size that OS X chooses for me.

Indeed, these forums are a good example. I keep them in a small windows so I can read the posts comfortably and handle many windows side-by-side efficiently. That's why many Windows people don't even know how to really multitask: they have the habit of maximizing Word documents, browser windows, no matter what.

Originally Posted by shifuimam

But do you think that the global functionality of an operating system should accommodate only certain users, or attempt to accommodate as many users as possible?

Again, it's not a maximize button and I will be pretty upset if they change to function of the green traffic light button to maximize: I use it frequently, but usually I want to resize to fit.

JKT · Jun 22, 2009, 06:09 AM

I'll repeat what I said earlier - Apple only needs to implement this the same way OmniWeb does because it works, it keeps it simple and you don't have to use it if you don't want to. Shift-clicking the zoom button will toggle between filling the screen and maximised. Everyone is satisfied. Done and dusted.

JKT · Jun 22, 2009, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

I just want the convenience of having all my login processes launched without interaction when I reboot, without the security compromise of autologin as it is now.

Why not use auto-login in combination with a password protected screensaver set to come on after e.g. a minute?

P · Jun 22, 2009, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by JKT

I'll repeat what I said earlier - Apple only needs to implement this the same way OmniWeb does because it works, it keeps it simple and you don't have to use it if you don't want to. Shift-clicking the zoom button will toggle between filling the screen and maximised. Everyone is satisfied. Done and dusted.

Except that it's supposed to be option and not shift that triggers an old-fashioned maximize, they do. Or did, anyway - haven't checked if Cocoa apps still respect it, but it was the rule from System 7 and on.

In the HIG, holding down shift means "do the opposite", holding down option means "do something similar, but slightly different". Apple forgot this rule along with so many others, but it shows up every now and then.

P · Jun 22, 2009, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Wowzers. If it's free, has been around since 10.1 and works as well as you say, I don't know how I could have missed it all these years. Thank you very much P. You've got me salivating over freeware!

I remember finding it the first time (from a Tidbits piece, I think) - I felt like that. I'm now in the habit of saving stuff - like long forum posts in case of AJAX failures - by simply copying them, and I have to restrain myself to keep from relying on the same feature on Windows.

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I installed it. Seems terrific. If it holds up as well as you say, it will have solved the problem that so frustrated me. I could have saved me hours of lost work and aggravation with PTHPasteboard. Why hasn't Apple purchased the software and made it standard?

Too few people know about it, I think. It's not the most marketable of names. Spread the word, maybe we'll get noticed.

P · Jun 22, 2009, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by JKT

Why not use auto-login in combination with a password protected screensaver set to come on after e.g. a minute?

That is easily bypassed by pulling the plug and rebooting the machine.

Big Mac · Jun 22, 2009, 07:03 AM

Then set an OF password along with it or don't auto login. Or, I'm sure one could very easily cook up an AppleScript or Automator action to do what was requested in that feature request. It's just not a feature too many others would benefit from.

moonmonkey · Jun 22, 2009, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

New ≠ Better

Yes, you can assume better, why would anyone want something worse?

JKT · Jun 22, 2009, 07:34 AM

One thing that I would desperately like to see fixed in any version of OS X from now on is the Help system being an always in front window...

JKT · Jun 22, 2009, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by P

That is easily bypassed by pulling the plug and rebooting the machine.

Good point!

slugslugslug · Jun 22, 2009, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by P

Originally Posted by JKT

Why not use auto-login in combination with a password protected screensaver set to come on after e.g. a minute?

That is easily bypassed by pulling the plug and rebooting the machine.

Right. And even besides that, I don't want the screensaver to kick in after a minute in normal use. I keep it pretty short, but < 5 minutes is overkill (or maybe "underkill"?).

slugslugslug · Jun 22, 2009, 09:40 AM

And yes, Big Mac, I get that not everyone would benefit from such a feature, but a) nobody would suffer for it, and b) look at the title of the thread.

Salty · Jun 23, 2009, 01:24 PM

OK these aren't so much features as weird behavior things... let's get back to marketable features people

Then again some how Apple managed to make Copy and Paste marketable...

Big Mac · Jun 23, 2009, 01:35 PM

Yeah, Copy and Paste - why 2009 will be like 1984.

JKT · Jun 23, 2009, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by P

Except that it's supposed to be option and not shift that triggers an old-fashioned maximize, they do. Or did, anyway - haven't checked if Cocoa apps still respect it, but it was the rule from System 7 and on.

In the HIG, holding down shift means "do the opposite", holding down option means "do something similar, but slightly different". Apple forgot this rule along with so many others, but it shows up every now and then.

For consistencies sake, option-click should zoom all windows of an app as doing so with minimise will minimise all windows of an app.

Spheric Harlot · Jun 23, 2009, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

Then again some how Apple managed to make Copy and Paste marketable...

And a broken implementation, no less! (if you're talking about the iPhone)

Big Mac · Jun 23, 2009, 06:11 PM

How is it broken?

Spheric Harlot · Jun 23, 2009, 06:41 PM

tap-hold sometimes vs. double-tap other times.

it's inconsistent.

Easily learned and not really a big problem, but subtly broken in a fundamental way.

aehaas · Jun 23, 2009, 07:30 PM

Things put in or out of the Dock should trigger confirmation. Some have occasionally tried to put 25 items in the trash, missed and ended up putting them in the dock. It should ask if Dock placement is truly wanted.

My wife occasionally double taps to start an application but accidently removes the item off the Dock, she has to call me for instructions to get the item back into the Dock. It should ask if the item really was meant to be removed.

Perhaps a pref to turn on or off the use of confirmations.

aehaas

Big Mac · Jun 23, 2009, 11:57 PM

That's a good suggestion as an extra option. You can lock the Dock if your wife doesn't need to add items that often, however.

Salty · Jun 26, 2009, 11:58 AM

Come on people these are little things, how about grand projects?

Andrew Stephens · Jun 26, 2009, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

Come on people these are little things, how about grand projects?

Make mail not suck as an imap client. It's a centre piece of the OS. It should be great but it's just meh.

Salty · Jun 26, 2009, 05:20 PM

We've already discussed Mail not sucking and that might even be coming in snow leopard.

Jasoco · Jun 26, 2009, 11:02 PM

Snow Leopard finally fixed zooming in the Finder. The folders finally zoom to the exact contents of both list and icon views instead of zooming a few pixels too wide or narrow. And conserves space a lot better shrinking used space. When list view is set to 10 point font size for example, the list rows are thinner and smaller and take less scroll amount.

PTHPasteBoard has been a good friend to me since 2003 and won't be replaced anytime soon. Apple doesn't need to implement its own version, but if it did and did it well, I might switch though. Pretty much the only credentials it would need to have is the ability to remember a lot of history. I currently have mine set to remember 100. Very useful.

Also, a Mac App Store would be the stupidest idea ever created and you should all be ashamed for wanting it. Especially if it is anything like the iPhone App Store.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 28, 2009, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by mdc

Like OreoCookie said, I think this is a terrible Windows feature.

Terrible Windows FEATURE? I've always considered to be a bug more than anything.

Also

to the guy who suggested theming. Will. Never. Ever. Happen. EVER.

lpkmckenna · 04:38 AM

I can never think of suggestions that aren't either huge changes (merge the menubar with the Dock) or minor tweaks (scrollbar colors).

Originally Posted by Jasoco

Snow Leopard finally fixed zooming in the Finder. The folders finally zoom to the exact contents of both list and icon views instead of zooming a few pixels too wide or narrow.

Hallelujah!

Originally Posted by JKT

I'll repeat what I said earlier - Apple only needs to implement this the same way OmniWeb does because it works, it keeps it simple and you don't have to use it if you don't want to. Shift-clicking the zoom button will toggle between filling the screen and maximised. Everyone is satisfied. Done and dusted.

Agreed. I like both maximize and zoom-to-fit. I prefer to see both available in all applications. Not having maximize available in the Finder is a pain, and not having zoom-to-it available in TextEdit is equally annoying.

I like Coverflow in the Finder, it's great for image viewing). But gimme full screen CoverFlow. And right now CoverFlow always has a list view below it. Let me turn that off or change it to column view. And CoverFlow in FrontRow would be nice too.

Let me use multitouch gestures in games. For instance, let me switch weapons in UT2004 with 2 or 3 or 4 finger gestures. Right now I can switch to the Link Gun with 2-down and the AVRiL with 2-up, but that only works because those gestures are seen by the game as scroll up or down. Let games see other gestures as keyboard input, for instance seeing them as function key presses or something.

Gimme some serious keyboard swapping. Right now only 4 keys can be swapped, and only into each other or disabled. BTW, get rid the the CapsLock key. The user should activate/deactivate CapsLock by pressing both Shift keys at once. Make the CapsLock into Fn or a function key. BTW, Fn-Delete for forward-delete sucks huge! Shift-Delete please and thank you.

Once last thing: window resizing from all corners would be nice. Really nice.

BTW Apple, thanks for fixing Stacks in the Dock in SL. And getting rid of that annoying Enter key on laptops. And fixing the Services menu.

Jasoco · Jun 29, 2009, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Hallelujah!

I've only been waiting for it to work right since 2001. I mean come on! OS 9 never acted that badly. It always resized to the exact size of its contents. A simple calculation, right? Apparently not. Took 'em this long to fix it!

Interesting thing to note is in List view it leaves 16 pixels on the right for a scrollbar even if it doesn't have one (Yet) but it finally removes the 16 pixels from the bottom that were used for horizontal scrollbars. Which technically shouldn't be needed in list view if the columns are small enough to fit on screen. So why waste that space?

In icon view it will either resize to the contents if the icon count is small enough to fit on screen, or will become wide enough to accomodate enough icons horizontally while still leaving space around the sides in folders with many many icons/files/folders/whatever.

I'm just glad I can click that green button with confidence again.

Also, you can double-click the column separator to resize to exact size of the text like in iTunes. But right now it's slightly buggy in that sorting sometimes resizes the name column smaller than what you set it at. Seems a silly bug, iTunes seems to have the same problem.

Eden Aurora · Jul 2, 2009, 08:05 AM

Does anyone really use the "HELP" menu anymore in the Finder?
I always forget it's there. I sooner enter a search in google to find answers.

Simon · Jul 2, 2009, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Eden Aurora

Does anyone really use the "HELP" menu anymore in the Finder?
I always forget it's there. I sooner enter a search in google to find answers.

In the Finder? No.

In other apps. Yes, sometimes.

Salty · Jul 2, 2009, 11:09 AM

[QUOTE=Jasoco;3855861Also, a Mac App Store would be the stupidest idea ever created and you should all be ashamed for wanting it. Especially if it is anything like the iPhone App Store.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that, and so long as we're giving out ignorant advice, I'm gonna recommend you see if you can get a blender to give good head, get back to us on the results.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 2, 2009, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Eden Aurora

Does anyone really use the "HELP" menu anymore in the Finder?

Plenty of people do.

Not everybody has been working with the Mac for years, you know.

Jasoco · Jul 2, 2009, 03:57 PM

A Mac App store, that works like the iPhone App store, would be the worst thing ever designed since it would give regular apps the same restrictions as iPhone apps. So say goodbye to stuff like emulators and torrent programs. Anything illegal. Can someone tell me why they think a Mac App store would be a good thing? Come on, here.

- - e r i k - - · Jul 2, 2009, 08:05 PM

…because it would never be the ONLY source of applications for the Mac. It's a little easier to control a closed eco-system like the iPhone you know.

Salty · Jul 3, 2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jasoco

A Mac App store, that works like the iPhone App store, would be the worst thing ever designed since it would give regular apps the same restrictions as iPhone apps. So say goodbye to stuff like emulators and torrent programs. Anything illegal. Can someone tell me why they think a Mac App store would be a good thing? Come on, here.

Nobody's suggesting that Apple begin making that Mac a gated community where only apps that Apple approves work. What I'm suggesting is a place where new users who wants a basic program to edit their pictures can go and find a copy of Pixelmator, or where someone who wants a more complicated organizing tool can go find Omni Outliner. It's about providing a way for mac developers to get their wares out to people who want them so that people don't feel a need to bitch about Apple not having integrated a feature into iLife or OS X.

Apple can't suddenly go back and say that all working apps require permission from the iTunes server to work, but they could provide a reasonable and easy to manage DRM service for app developers so you could be sure that while the app you buy is protected against piracy for the developer it's not disruptive for you to use it.

Jasoco · Jul 3, 2009, 06:20 PM

But that doesn't make any sense. Why would we need an Apple hosted App Store when we already have many sites where we can get all the apps we need. And Google makes it easier.

Apple has a section on their site. There's also MacUpdate, Tucows, VersionTracker. Seems to me an App Store is just another one of these.

Sorry I overreacted and said it was stupid. A DRM one would be stupid, but an app that holds a store wouldn't be bad, but it would just be another already existing site.

Let's change the subject though. I don't like the bad karma. And I want to talk about features I'd like to see in, oh, three years or so whenever 10.7 ends up coming out.

Laurence · Jul 5, 2009, 05:37 PM

Since all processes continue running in the background while switched to another user, it would seem that a lot of the support code to have a multi-user graphical interface is possibly done? It would be very useful If I could use screen sharing to connect to my Mac Pro from my MacBook and use my account while someone else is physically using the Mac Pro.

Basically, I want multiple graphical simultaneous logins remotely.

I also think it would be nice if you could plug-in two keyboards/mice and two monitors and have two people use the same computer next to each other. With a quad or eight core Mac Pro it would be perfect for head-to-head gaming, however there would also be many other more practical uses.

This would also halve the cost for internet cafe's and such. Right now, they buy very cheap windows PCs and instead they could buy Mac Minis and a mini display port adapter. two computers for the price of one plus a monitor/keyboard/mouse. In these situations where most use is for web browsing even a mini would be more than powerful enough.

Laurence · Jul 5, 2009, 05:46 PM

Another thing I'd like is for Quicktime to play any file I download from anywhere withoug having to remove one codec and install a different one. I've had many times where there was no audio in a file so I installed Perian and it worked, but then some other file that used to work stopped playing back properly so I remove Perian and now it works again. This has happened with DivX, 3iVX, Perian, and Xvid codecs over the years. It's also happened with files containing AC3 audio, ogg audio and even some embedded mp3 audio. It just seems that since VLC and MPlayer can play anything I throw at them without complaining and they don't cost anything that Quicktime should be able to do the same thing so my mom doesn't have to figure out how to install a codec pack to watch some stupid movie I send her.

I understand that Quicktime does a lot more than playback and I don't think they need to include export options for all the various codecs and wrappers on the net, however playback only support for the wide variety of AVIs, MKVs, OGMs, MPG, M2TS, etc. should be included out of the box!

P · Jul 6, 2009, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Laurence

Basically, I want multiple graphical simultaneous logins remotely.

Windows does that already - it's called Terminal Services. Ever seen an Internet cafe use it? No - because you still need a full computer to run it. You might presumably pair it with some sort of light client - what used to be called an NC back in the nineties - but no such models exist. Using two mice and keyboards sounds more likely, but of very limited utility.

Another thing I'd like is for Quicktime to play any file I download from anywhere withoug having to remove one codec and install a different one.

It should do that already, unless the plugin is badly designed. I've found that only using Perian, and no DivX, Xvid or 3ivx, works in almost all situations. Add the Xiph stuff for Ogg Vorbis/Theora and Flip4Mac for the Windows stuff and you're good.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 6, 2009, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Laurence

however playback only support for the wide variety of AVIs, MKVs, OGMs, MPG, M2TS, etc. should be included out of the box!

If they did that, they'd have to a) license and b) SUPPORT every single one of those codecs.

If some stupid web video claiming to be some codec or other, generated by some moron with his cellphone and a cracked video converter for Windows 98 doesn't run on your machine, then you complain to whoever supplied the codecs - Apple.

Apple does not and CANNOT want this.

Ever.

They include QuickTime and its defined set of codecs; everything else is up to you - and will stay up to you.

FWIW, perian, Xiph, and flip4mac - in that combination - work for everything I encounter.

shifuimam · Jul 6, 2009, 10:12 AM

VLC Media Player is a good one, too.

Salty · Jul 6, 2009, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Jasoco

But that doesn't make any sense. Why would we need an Apple hosted App Store when we already have many sites where we can get all the apps we need. And Google makes it easier.

Apple has a section on their site. There's also MacUpdate, Tucows, VersionTracker. Seems to me an App Store is just another one of these.

Sorry I overreacted and said it was stupid. A DRM one would be stupid, but an app that holds a store wouldn't be bad, but it would just be another already existing site.

Let's change the subject though. I don't like the bad karma. And I want to talk about features I'd like to see in, oh, three years or so whenever 10.7 ends up coming out.

I don't think you understand. The idea of a Finder app store, is that within the very place where people go and check out their file system and what not, there would be a little button that said STORE or APP STORE or something. This feature isn't for people who know about MacUpdate or VersionTracker, it's for people like my mom who think hmmm I want a program that does THIS.
The fact is that nearly ever person I meet with an iPhone has at least ten apps on their Phone, I know lots of new Mac users who barely managed to get MSN messenger on their machines. It wouldn't matter if it had DRM because the DRM would be as non-invasive as the standard Apple DRM, IE you can use it on up to five Macs, there'd be no serial numbers just your password. Software updates for your apps could be handled through the store, and it would be another revenue stream for Apple, and because of the increased exposure it would be a boon for developers.

Jasoco · Jul 6, 2009, 01:23 PM

I guess I could live with that. When you put it that way.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 6, 2009, 02:36 PM

What about apple menu --> mac is x software?

Jasoco · Jul 6, 2009, 03:03 PM

Apparently people don't know about it.

I do agree that there needs to be a better way to introduce new Mac users to where they can get new software. But really, Safari's default homepage is an Apple webpage full of tips and tricks. What they should do is just spruce that page up. Because eventually a new Mac user is going to click Safari to get online. And that will be the first thing they see. That is where this "App Store" place should be placed. If it isn't already.

Apple - Start

turtle777 · Jul 6, 2009, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Jasoco

Apple - Start

Funny. I've been a Mac User for almost 15 years. Never heard of the "Start Page".

I guess it's wildly successful

-t

Jasoco · Jul 6, 2009, 03:27 PM

It's been the default homepage on Safari since it came out, and was also the homepage when OS X came with Internet Explorer. But only on new installs. Of course YOU haven't heard of it. You probably changed your home page from the start 15 years ago to something else. But a new user NOW would see it first, well after Top Sites now. YOU are not a NEW user as you changed your settings 15 years ago.

turtle777 · Jul 6, 2009, 03:33 PM

Well, I guess I just doubt that the "default browser page" route is a great way of promoting stuff.

Just saying.

-t

Jasoco · Jul 6, 2009, 03:52 PM

Where exactly do you think they'd place an App Store icon on a fresh OS X installation? In the Dock? And how would people know what that is? It wouldn't be any different than the URL shortcut they throw in the Dock by default that opens the same page.

Big Mac · 04:05 PM

It could replace the Mac OS X Software link in the Apple menu. Besides, I would think the least of the issues in getting a Mac App Store together would be the icon chosen for it.