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Fallout · Feb 11, 2003, 02:09 PM

Vote. You know you want to.

I payed for Soundjam MP, Quicktime Pro, several games, and that's it. Everything else I download. If I depended on a program for whatever reason, I'd buy it.

Myrkridia · Feb 11, 2003, 02:22 PM

I don't pirate software, music, etc. I "save money."
I dunno about the rest of you, but I'm not made of money and can't afford the $1000 price tag that comes with maya, or any high end graphic progam.
In my opinion, no program is worth more than $30 regardless of what it can do ie: games, movie editing, 3D animation.
I know that people will say "the developers of said software, deserve to be compensated for their troubles" but if you think about it, probably only about %5-%10 of the population of the U.S has the know how to hack/krack applications, or no where to get free software. The other %90 shell out the dough, and make sure that the children of those poor developers don't go hungry.

fobside · Feb 11, 2003, 02:23 PM

I buy Apple's software. I buy my games. I download music, before I purchase CDs. I do download episodes of shows I really like in addition to watching them. I can't wait for X11 to be a final release. Then I can run The Gimp and Open Office. I'm wary of the beta, but that's just my personal thing.

def H H H · Feb 11, 2003, 03:06 PM

In my opinion, no program is worth more than $30 regardless of what it can do ie: games, movie editing, 3D animation.

I concur.

Steve · Feb 11, 2003, 03:11 PM

I have only bought 1 cd, ever, and that was a local radio station's charity CD (which is good, btw). I do download movies, but only after I have either seen them and loved them, or is something older that is hard to find in any rental places.

Applications are a different story. If I can't afford it, I usually try to find an educational discount (being a student and all), or see if my employeer or parents emplyeers have different licensing for it.

I almost always pay for games, since I love to play them online. The only exception is some of the older games I have (Diablo II, for example), that my friends have given me.

sek929 · Feb 11, 2003, 03:20 PM

Well I paid for the 10.1 Upgrade and EV Nova, thaaaats about it.

I download the Divx's I have no intention of buying on DVD, I never bought CDs because they are so expensive so I'd rather get two dime bags and smoke a huge blunt, and as for the super expensive programs I inetend to fully liscence and purchase them once I get a job where said programs are required, until then I am just testing them out

Nicko · Feb 11, 2003, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by sek929:
Well I paid for the 10.1 Upgrade and EV Nova, thaaaats about it.

I download the Divx's I have no intention of buying on DVD, I never bought CDs because they are so expensive so I'd rather get two dime bags and smoke a huge blunt, and as for the super expensive programs I inetend to fully liscence and purchase them once I get a job where said programs are required, until then I am just testing them out

ditto.

SomeToast · Feb 11, 2003, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by sek929:
I download the Divx's I have no intention of buying on DVD, I never bought CDs because they are so expensive so I'd rather get two dime bags and smoke a huge blunt

Can I come over to your place and steal your dime bags? After buying DVDs and CDs, I just don't feel like paying for my pot.

Buck_Naked · Feb 11, 2003, 04:26 PM

Guilty.......

I have downloaded a little of everything except for Movies.
I will tell this though. Using my iPod at an Apple Store
is much faster than downloading files off P2P networks.

sek929 · Feb 11, 2003, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by SomeToast:
Can I come over to your place and steal your dime bags? After buying DVDs and CDs, I just don't feel like paying for my pot.

Seeing as if you stole my dime bags that I would no longer have said dime bags, but when I download a Divx or CD the original is still there and I mearly have a copy. Therefore its not stealing.

KTHNKSBYE!!

Andrew 8808 · Feb 11, 2003, 04:53 PM

I download some music, but usually end up buying CDs of stuff that I really like. I do have some apps that I haven't paid for, but I don't use it professionally, or make money from them. Once I do, I will buy them.
Don't really download movies either. I'd rather watch them with surround sound and such.

chris v · Feb 11, 2003, 04:56 PM

Oh, yeah, I'm a criminal, too, and here's my IP address!

Uh, no.

CV

dampeoples · Feb 11, 2003, 04:59 PM

I seem to be the only one voting no so far. I'll go stand in my corner now.

chris v · Feb 11, 2003, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by dampeoples:
I seem to be the only one voting no so far. I'll go stand in my corner now.

"Chilling effect" of the DCMA?

Go figure.

CV

dampeoples · Feb 11, 2003, 05:09 PM

Nah, though I do have a few stolen MP3's, more of a conscience/karma thing. I'm working my ass off on a game, would like for it to be sold one day.

Adam Betts · Feb 11, 2003, 05:14 PM

Last year is the last time I've illegally downloaded softwares.

Right now, I buy all softwares even Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.

Gotta love Educational Price

dampeoples · Feb 11, 2003, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Last year is the last time I've illegally downloaded softwares.

Right now, I buy all softwares even Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.

Gotta love Educational Price

Pull up a chair, i get educational price too, I can't afford Photoshop though, still kicking it with Elements. Course, I haven't worked but a month since September

SirCastor · Feb 11, 2003, 05:19 PM

I have abandoned all Software piracy, I won't download movies. I'm working on giving up the music though. It's my current vice. I need to drop it.

G4ME · Feb 11, 2003, 05:30 PM

i pay for good music, good games, apple software (qt pro once, then the updated it the next week mofos) and no way am i paying for porn thats final

rampant · Feb 11, 2003, 05:34 PM

Me simply saying "yes" to this question is like saying Adolf Hitler killed 1 Jew.

Kenneth · Feb 11, 2003, 06:44 PM

Well, I buy Apple software along with some shareware to show my support to them. For Microsoft software... no way. Even thought I'm living in a MS-empire state, I don't think their products r worth my "hard-earned" money.

For music and movie, I purchase them if I like it. Of course, I download some live recording music on the 'Net since they don't offer it in CD.

Feb 11, 2003, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Myrkridia:
In my opinion, no program is worth more than $30 regardless of what it can do ie: games, movie editing, 3D animation.
I know that people will say "the developers of said software, deserve to be compensated for their troubles" but if you think about it, probably only about %5-%10 of the population of the U.S has the know how to hack/krack applications, or no where to get free software. The other %90 shell out the dough, and make sure that the children of those poor developers don't go hungry.

Now show us the huge amounts of market and sociological research you performed to come to that $30/90%. How many copies would a program like Adobe Photoshop have to sell to be able to pay their developers, marketers, administration, production, distribution, etc.?

What basis do you have for your opinion? Where did you come up with the 90% figure.

And you wonder why software companies want to build DRM into their products.

For the record, I buy my music, software, movies, etc. or do without them. Just because you choose to spend your money elsewhere doesn't mean you deserve to get other things for free.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you sound like a little punk who expects the world handed to him on a silver platter without working at it.

Fallout · Feb 11, 2003, 07:10 PM

I forgot to mention, I buy really good movies and music. Especially movies. Watching bad quality DivX on my 15" iMac screen sucks ass.

OreoCookie · Feb 11, 2003, 07:34 PM

I do not download music due to the lack of a broad band connection at home. However, my girlfriend does. If I want some .mp3s, she downloads them when she is at home. In the past, I used to download music. No big deal. I downloaded everything, skimmed through it and bought the CD if the songs were any good and if I like the artist. I do spend more money after starting downloading music than before.

I also have some apps that I do not have a license for. But then, I don't use them (stuff like Illustrator and Office v.X), I mainly use TeX and other really free stuff. I have paid for Keynote though, because I liked the app. Same holds for OmniGraffle.

Gotta support the stuff you like and you can afford to support. I am a student after all.

wdlove · Feb 11, 2003, 07:41 PM

I believe it is stealing. The price of software would decrease rapidly if we stopped purchasing. Also I don't have the technical skills to download illegally, but stiil believe it would be wrong.

kOnshii · Feb 11, 2003, 08:00 PM

I download everything....

I also like to buy a lot of things.

I bought Photoshop 5, then downloaded 7. I think it's only fare to do this, cause i spent nearly AU$1000 on a software package only to be superseeded a short time later.

As for OS X, I paid for OS X beta, I paid for OS X.1 and i'll be damed if i pay for OS.X2. I believe that x.2 should be free cause the one before it was a botched job, lack heaps of features and slow.

So since apple didn't make it a free upgrade, i did.

If only download hardware was an option?

cpt kangarooski · Feb 11, 2003, 08:22 PM

wdlove--

I believe it is stealing.

It's not stealing.

Don't take this to mean that I'm saying that illegal downloading is not illegal. And I don't want to address rightness or wrongness, since that's a personal decision really, and not especially related to legality. (e.g. is it right to steal bread if you're starving; is it right to steal cigarettes if you like them more than bread)

Just that it's best to use the proper terminology. In some places, jaywalking might be illegal and considered dispicable. It still shouldn't be called murder, just for effect. Such unfounded exaggeration only makes it more difficult to have an actual, perhaps even productive, discussion regarding the subject.

What you should really say, to make your point, is "I believe copyright infringement is wrong." Note that legality is not really at issue in this discussion, which is specifically about downloads that are ALREADY illegal. Though if you really wanted you could also note that you believe that it should remain illegal.

The price of software would decrease rapidly if we stopped purchasing.

Um, if that were true, then wouldn't the smart thing to do be to stop purchasing, wait for prices to decline, and then purchase a lot before prices moved back up again? It's more typical for anti-infringement advocates to argue that infringement is counter-productive, since it makes it less likely that more works will be created in the future, since there's no money to be made in it; that the infringer who enjoys having a lot of things to infringe will suffer later for having only a few things to infringe, perhaps which he won't even care about.

Cipher13 · Feb 12, 2003, 01:32 AM

I download software to test it out; hell if I'm gonna spend money on software with a crippled demo.

If it's good, I'll buy it. Final Cut Pro for example - fcuking brilliant, so I bought it (well... got my employer to buy it for me. Hehe).

I download MP3's; if there's one song I like, forget buying the album. Heh. If I really like an album, I'll buy it.

I own Pearl Jam, Zombie, NIN, Tool, RHCP CD's etc... all because of the mp3's I downloaded. I download mp3's if CD's are hard to find, like AFI here in Australia. I'm getting their CD's imported ($50 per CD though - screw that).

DivX's are no substitute for DVD's IMO. No surround sound, worse quality, etc etc. I'll buy the DVD's of really good movies.

Superchicken · Feb 12, 2003, 01:57 AM

2nd Peter states that you are to obey the laws of the land in which you live.

The laws of Canada state that copyright prottected matterial is the intelectual propperty of the creator. If they wanna create it and charge that's their right.
If I do not morally agree with what they are charging I will not use it.
There is nothing that will force me to hear an album and say I NEED that. At the same time I also can't use the argument music artists are rich... cause most arn't. I do a website for Cadet a Christian rock band out of Oregon they're really good, and I do it free of charge cause I know they're never gona make good scratch off their CDs and they'll barely be able to pay for their recording costs.
Heck their bass player works at a coffie shop!

I also am in on Winnipeg's local Christian rock scene and so I buy merch to support the artists... when I have the cash, and I go to shows and pay my 5 bucks... heck half the time I end up paying more because they don't have enough change or give me the wrong change... I've probably payed close to 20 bucks simply from getting wrong change at shows or paying for other stuff hahaha I realy don't mind... that much

As for secular rock... most of the stuff I'm exposed to lyrically is crap. Granted I do know that some secular stuff has really good lyrics... our lady peace, for example. But honestly I don't have tons of cash to spend on CDs so I buy the stuff that I hear that I like... and winnipeg's got a half decent alternative rock station... and I'm still waiting to be able to buy Squad Five O's album, and the new Calibretto 13, the two Plankeye Albums I don't have, and so on and so forth.

Software I refuse to pirate it... once I had an ilegal copy of Photoshop 3... and honestly as a Christian it was bad for me. I deleted it and bought a copy of PS LE, and I've recently got a copy of Elements 2 for Christmas. That was bought through my sister's Edu discount, as was my copy of Macromedia's Web Deisng Studio two years ago.

I've been tempted to download music but I simply think it's wrong to do so and that I have no right to it unless I pay. And I can't jusity paying so I put up with my 50+ CDs and slowly buy more.

Movies... I hate most movies... so that's a non issue.

At one point I used to pirate old ROMs but ultimately I couldn't justify that people will hold the copyrights to those... I would appriciate it if Nintendo and the like did come out with a statement on old ROMs for games like FF3 and what not... although even that one they can rerelease it on the PS... like they did... Anyway... that's my two cents... anyone who's not a Christian I won't fault for not obeying your country's laws you've got no reason to. Any Christian though I would tell them they're sinning.

SomeToast · Feb 12, 2003, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by sek929:
Seeing as if you stole my dime bags that I would no longer have said dime bags, but when I download a Divx or CD the original is still there and I mearly have a copy. Therefore its not stealing.

"Therefore its not stealing?" I think said dime bags are gone already.

simonjames · Feb 12, 2003, 05:14 AM

I have a friend who is dead set against pirating - she believes that pirating software or music removes a portion of the income that the artist would receive.

But really - how much of a CD sale does an artist receive when they're tied to a large multi-national?

And how about all those artists forced to sign chitty contracts that leave them penniless. For example - the actors who starred in 'Gilligan's Island' were paid for the first showing and then that was it. How many times has that show been syndicated and rerun? And who gets the money for all those reruns? Not the artists! Not the actors!

b-t-w I pay my shareware fees and I own more CDs than I care to admit to (like 'Wham' - what *was* I thinking?)

macroy · Feb 12, 2003, 09:47 AM

All the time.

I'll only speak for myself - I'm just taking advantage of the opportunity since the stuff is out there. If it wasn't available for download, I'd live without it.

Not meant to be an excuse or anything, but the apps I use the most are free in the first place (browsers, mail clients etc...). And most of the apps I do have, I don't really use (e.g. got Photoshop from a buddy. Its on my system, but I've never actually used it.) Again, not saying that its less wrong or anything.

sek929 · Feb 12, 2003, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by SomeToast:
"Therefore its not stealing?" I think said dime bags are gone already.

Well that was a hypothetical situation, in the real world you would have never gotten to the chance to steal said dime bags

Feb 12, 2003, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by simonjames:
I have a friend who is dead set against pirating - she believes that pirating software or music removes a portion of the income that the artist would receive.

But really - how much of a CD sale does an artist receive when they're tied to a large multi-national?

How does the amount matter? If you pirate instead of buying, you are taking away from the artists income whether it is 50 cents or ten bucks.

Regardless, it doesn't matter if the music is owned by a large corporation. Taking income from them is wrong too, whether or not they deserve it.

OreoCookie · Feb 12, 2003, 01:49 PM

Much of my .mp3s are legal. Legally copied (according to German law) (from friends or my girlfriend and vice versa).

So copying music is not always stealing. It's not that simple.

anarkisst · Feb 12, 2003, 01:50 PM

I used to buy software before the P2P boom...and it was in my opinion a scam...software companies would hold out on features on one version and add them to the next.

Of course there is the low cost upgrade fee with purchased software, but these upgrades seem to come waaaay too fast in most cases. Flash is a great example. I bought 3, upgraded to 4, then 5...did I ever really use Flash to compensate for all the upgrades? NEVER. Same with almost every other program.

I haven't paid for any of my software for OS X (excluding the small-time shareware products). Because I know this upgrade cycle that most software companies have these days is anywhere between 3-6 months apart...and with OS X they're on a gravy train.

As far as downloading music. I download music to review before I buy. But much of the mp3 downloads I have are selections of bands and genres that I make into collections on CD.

Example: I wanted to get all my favorite Rockabilly songs and make a CD of them...out of 100 I chose 22 and burned one CD. Imagine if I bought every Rockabilly artist's CDs and then selected the tunes I really wanted?

All the other mp3s I've downloaded have been concerts of bands who permit recording of their shows. So they're legal.

If you're interested in that check out

http://www.furthurnet.org/

Some great concerts and rare stuff...

maxelson · Feb 12, 2003, 01:53 PM

No!
What?
No!
Okay... PROVE it...

Ah, the good ole days of the Dead: "When we're done with it, you can have it".

Saetre · Feb 12, 2003, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by maxelson:
No!
What?
No!
Okay... PROVE it...

Ah, the good ole days of the Dead: "When we're done with it, you can have it".

Copyright laws are so artificial. When you 'steal' music you take away income that the artists wouldn't be able to collect without big brother to back them up. Why should the artists and gov get to make the rules?

Jens Peter · Feb 12, 2003, 04:32 PM

I can honestly say, I havent used p2p clients in a year now, bought my X.2, all of my mp3 are legal and I'm using a lot of free/share ware. Those programs that I use frequently, I have bought.
Games ? I have a playstation, and 3 games...

The main reason? One day, in a year or so, I'm finished with my education as 'Information and Communucations engineer', and by that time I hope to be able to live of making software.

Jens Peter.

dampeoples · Feb 12, 2003, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Jens Peter:
I hope to be able to live of making software.

Jens Peter.

Not with support from most of these forum members. They'll be robbing you blind, and posting about how you don't really need to charge so much, or some other excuse to convince themselves that they aren't really doing wrong.

cpt kangarooski · Feb 12, 2003, 07:48 PM

Yeah, but I hope to live a life of luxury without having to do anything to support myself. I've noticed that very few people, practically none in fact, seem interested in helping me do so by, for example, paying for it.

Not every dream job is realistic. It's entirely possible that the era when an artist could support oneself on their work as opposed to their labor is coming to an end. If this left society generally in a better state, I wouldn't oppose it. If it would leave everyone worse off, then we'd have a reason to avoid letting nature take its course.

(if you'd like to send me financial contributions, please send me a private message)