[GK]

I just got accepted to a great masters program and am forced to buy a PC laptop

I have a rev. A PB and wanted to upgrade to the new PB17". However, the school requires a pretty powerful PC laptop for running programs that were specifcally written for the courses (no mac versions of course). Another problem is that we get all other needed SW (incl. MS office, financial analysis SW for free from different companies), so many SW packages do not exist for the Mac and would run only slowly on Virtual PC ). I will of course keep my PB, but now need to purchase a PC laptop for classes , and as I have not used a PC laptop once in my entire life, I would like to get the opinion of fellow Macnners on the best PC. I thought about the new IBM laptops, but have no idea which line is the best one (X, T ?). WHen I choose a PC laptop I would like to get as close as possible in quality to the PB, of course I am stuck with MS Windows .

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks

[MyRuin]

I think the best ones, are Compaq or Toshiba, I've got one Compaq and it never give me any problems, and already 2+ years. Now I'm waiting for my first Mac, and it is the PB 17". The Compaq will still be in the family but only my father will work with it.

[elmer]

My deepest condolences. I myself use a PowerBook at home and a DELL Latitude at work. DELL's warranty service has been outstanding in my experience. Their online help / drivers etc is also great. I recommend trying to get a new Intel Centrino machine -- looks like they have really created a mobile solution with great performance this time. IMO, for the office + financial apps, DELL would be an excellent choice.

[Dache]

I'll be glad to help, but first, tell me a few things:

1. will you be running many graphics-intensive programs 2D or 3D?

2. what drives do you want to be bult in, and what can you live with as attachments?

3. related to #2, do you want this to be an ultra-light and portable, or more of a complete desktop replacement, or something in-between?

Once you can tell me some more about your needs, I will be able to point you to specific brands and makes. As a rule, the top, most reliable makers of PC notebooks are Dell, IBM, and Toshiba. Each makes a great variety of machines, to suit most needs.

One benefit to going to a pc notebook is that you get many choices and often a high level of customization. Another is that you will be able to find much sharper, hi-rez displays than anything on a powerbook. The downside will be higher overall machine weight and, of course, aesthetics (sometimes much worse than others), buth there are plenty of good-looking machines out there. So, don't worry, you are not in hell yet

[spacedog]

I'm sure you're going to get a wide variety of responses to this, because there are so many options out there. The only PC laptop brand I would consider is IBM. Mostly due to pretty solid build quality and a general lack of gimmicky crap tacked on to them. You can usually choose Win2000 instead of XP if you like. This is probably a good thing.

[b3t4]

my dad used a compaq and a dell.

i was really surprised about the quality of dell. i think if i have to buy pc laptop than i would definitly go with dell.
i had bad experiences with toshiba.
well just my 2 cents.

beta

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by GK:
[B]I just got accepted to a great masters program and am forced to buy a PC laptop

[B]

What program and at what school?
I'm in a program at AIU online and can work on my PB 17" with VPC to log into and run all necessary apps in their VPN. Slower... a bit, but it works.
What software do you use that won't run in VPC?

[B]
I have a rev. A PB and wanted to upgrade to the new PB17". However, the school requires a pretty powerful PC laptop for running programs that were specifcally written for the courses (no mac versions of course). Another problem is that we get all other needed SW (incl. MS office, financial analysis SW for free from different companies), so many SW packages do not exist for the Mac and would run only slowly on Virtual PC ). I will of course keep my PB, but now need to purchase a PC laptop for classes , and as I have not used a PC laptop once in my entire life, I would like to get the opinion of fellow Macnners on the best PC. I thought about the new IBM laptops, but have no idea which line is the best one (X, T ?). WHen I choose a PC laptop I would like to get as close as possible in quality to the PB, of course I am stuck with MS Windows .

[B]

YOU ARE GOING TO BLOW THOUSANDS ON A PC? why?
You don't have to.
VP6 runs all of my graduate software no problem.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
Thanks

Stop the belly-aching and invest in the 1GB ram modules and bump up a 17" to the 2 GB mark.

That is money much better spent.

[msykes]

Around my lab (computational biology), most of the people with PC laptops have Dells, but most of the people with Dells wish they could have afforded an IBM. Those seem to be the two top choices.

My only advice is make sure you get one with the Centrino chipset (or at least the Pentium M processor). These seem to have greatly improved battery life over previous PC laptops, so that it's now comparable to or better than our beloved powerbooks. This removes what was previously one of the worst points of PC laptops.

All of the major PC manufacturers have Pentium M laptops available.

[seanyepez]

The classiest, coolest PC laptops come from IBM. IBM's new T40, reviewed at www.anandtech.com, is my favorite PC notebook right now. One IBM notebook gets over six hours of battery life on an included extended battery.

Sony's quality leaves much to be desired. I have had several VAIO notebooks, and all have been defective in one way or another. Once, I had to open three Sony VAIO R505 notebooks at an electronics store to find one without LCD screen defects. They're cool, but they're not worth the premium you pay for them.

Dell notebooks are true workhorses, but they lack any sense of style. They're powerful and reliable, but I wouldn't want to be seen in public with one. If I had to get a Dell, it would probably be the Latitude D600. It's a relatively light, fully-featured notebook that costs only about $1,700 with a great screen and integrated 802.11g functionality.

Good luck finding a PC notebook that suits your needs.

[spacedog]

Originally posted by seanyepez:
Sony's quality leaves much to be desired. I have had several VAIO notebooks, and all have been defective in one way or another. Once, I had to open three Sony VAIO R505 notebooks at an electronics store to find one without LCD screen defects. They're cool, but they're not worth the premium you pay for them.

No kidding. Sonys always look neat from a distance or when they're brand new, but they always seem to wear really poorly, not to mention look horribly dated pretty quickly. (Not that cosmetics matter that much, but c'mon...) That cool looking new Sony laptop with the silver casing and black innards that was being shown around here a couple weeks ago? I saw one in person when buying my 17, and, OMG is it cheap in person. Ugh.

[PoisonTooth]

The best PC notebook out there right now is the ThinkPad T40 (I just ordered one to compare side-by-side with my TiBook), but it's expensive. Barring the T40, you should look at Dell's Centrino-powered machines, as they are very nice too, and much more affordable.

[Podolsky]

Originally posted by GK:
I just got accepted to a great masters program and am forced to buy a PC laptop

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks

Yes, buy a legal pad......great UI. A real classic!

[BigDaddy]

I would get a Dell. Latitude.

[GlobalNomad]

Originally posted by BigDaddy:
I would get a Dell. Latitude.

Do not get Dell.
Do not get Compaq.
Do not get Sony.
Do not get Acer.
Do not get Gateway *moo*

If you want a laptop, Get a IBM!

[seanyepez]

I like the quality of IBM products.

[John123]

IBM stuff is good but pricey. If money is no object, then it's a great choice.

A couple of you have suggested VPC. This is quite impractical. First of all, it's slow. Second, there's some stuff that just won't work on it. A case in point is the software used in law schools which is designed to "take over" your PC during exam sessions (you use your computer to take the exam). You can't use a Mac in these situations.

[maelstrom65]

I've had good experiences with Dell products. Like Sean says, they look horrible, but they get the job done and are powerful. They are also affordable..

All in all, a winning combination if you "have" to get a Winblows Laptop.

Good Luck

[anoetic]

The IBM Thinkpads are really good but as stated they are a bit pricey. I think the Toshibas offer you a more cost effective laptop with good features and more style than a Dell. Don't expect the little details and design that Apple offers though.

[Cosgro]

add one more vote of a Thinkpad, solid construction, good machines.

Compaqs (pre-HP) were known as being low cost pieces of crap, not sure what they are now.

[seanyepez]

I had a Compaq back in 1999. It was heavy and loud, and its battery would last no longer than an hour.

[jalisco555]

My Dell often freezes up for no apparent reason. This happened to me once in the middle of a Powerpoint presentation to 60 people. It's the reason I'm switching to a Powerbook. If I had to buy a new Windows laptop I guess I'd go with IBM.

[pinglookgirl]

The IBM is super solid and has a pretty high resale value. People who plan to keep their notebooks longterm all have IBMs (my husband is a software engineer and most of his contractors work on IBMs -those who can't afford the IBMs have Dells).

If you just need one to get through the course(s), get a Dell. You can dump it at the end of the year without feeling too bad since you'll have paid less.

[meem]

I use my dad's dell inspiron 8200 with p4m and performance is pretty good. I play UT2003 on it. They have what I think is a really bad design flaw which i am unsure if other dells have. The front bays for removable battery and dvd drive have a latch which is not flush with the bottom of the case. Many time when either me or my dad are using it in our laps we would move our leg a little and the dvd driveor battery would pop out.

[buffalolee]

Dude,

The answer is really simple....

Get yourself VIRTUAL PC and run any PC programs you have on your Powerbook.

You probably do not need a PC if they only use:
- Microsoft Work
- Powerpoint

What is your major and what programs will you be using? Maybe the only reason why they recommend a PC is because your university supports PC and their problems. If you can run the same stuff on your Powerbook, you do not have to switch. You will go unsupported if you have POWERBOOK problems, though (as though we get any) .

The system is not so strict once you find how and why the rules are put in place.

[milhous]

Definitely give Fujitsu LifeBooks a look. They're sweet, built well and are made in Japan.

www.fujitsupc.com

[mbryda]

As a PC tech/network admin for the past 10 years, I'd say run away from Dell. IIRC their notebooks are now rated 4th, behind Apple, HP/Compaq, IBM And Toshiba (check PC Mag's latest surveys).... (Not to mention their desktops tend to be at the bottom of the barrel for performance...)

If you want something close to the PB's battery life, you'll want the new Centrino stuff (it's not just a CPU, but rather a CPU/Chipset/WiFi radio designed for max. battery life).

That being said, the cream of the crop in PC laptops is IBM. Solid machines that last forever and ever. Second choice would be Compaq then Toshiba.

If you want a good reliable machine to last through the classes and not cost a bunch, check out Sager. They are a small company, but their laptops tend to be of quite good quality.

If you want somehting cheap to get the job done, check out one of the AMD powered HP/Compaq's - cheap & speedy.

[Mac Zealot]

add another vote to the IBM. They support apple processor wise anyway and will be for quite a few more years so they're good guys in my book.

Besides, the t40 is a damn nice laptop, and as I've seen high detail pics of a t40 next to a dell laptop, they always rock in quality.

One thing I admit, newer IBM laptops have brought back the old-style layout on the keyboard, which is totally awesome.

*shrug* like sean said, I wouldn't be caught with a dell in public, they are lemming computers and are only OK.

[Lateralus]

I'll vote for an IBM as well.

You are going to take a hit performace wise by going with IBM, but like going with an Apple, the performance loss is usually made up for with the quality put into the production of the product.

[schmoe]

Wow hehe, quite the IBM ThinkPad lovefest going on! Well let me add my voice to the same! I'm waiting on delivery of a ThinkPad T40p and all I can say is *wow*. The T series is the best IMHO, amazing combination of weight and features. This laptop is 4.9 pounds with the standard battery and DVD/CD-RW drive. 1400x1050 screen, Pentium-M 1.6ghz (equivalent to a P4 2.2-2.4ghz), DDR RAM, 4-6 hours of battery life, gigabit ethernet, USB 2.0...

You said you want quality so avoid Dell. Their laptops have the best features but are practically disposable in terms of build quality. I'm typing this on a Latitude C610 and it really sucks. The build quality of the ThinkPad far exceeds even that of the PowerBook, it just isn't pretty.

[holygoat]

Avoid Dells. I've encountered one good Latitude, but my Inspiron 8100 creaks, is incredibly hot (without a fan control program it'll happily reach a toasty 76 C), noisy, has terrible battery life (though much better in Linux than Windows), and was very expensive.

On the plus side, it has a good keyboard (but then, it is the size of a desk), and an excellent screen (1600x1200).

I've heard nothing but good about IBMs.

[BZ]

IBM ThinkPad.

Really, if had to (and I am typing this on a Rev A powerbook 500 Mhz) I would get a ThinkPad. I used to support them and they are great. Small, powerful and reliable. Stay away from anything else.

BZ

Originally posted by GK:
I just got accepted to a great masters program and am forced to buy a PC laptop

I have a rev. A PB and wanted to upgrade to the new PB17". However, the school requires a pretty powerful PC laptop for running programs that were specifcally written for the courses (no mac versions of course). Another problem is that we get all other needed SW (incl. MS office, financial analysis SW for free from different companies), so many SW packages do not exist for the Mac and would run only slowly on Virtual PC ). I will of course keep my PB, but now need to purchase a PC laptop for classes , and as I have not used a PC laptop once in my entire life, I would like to get the opinion of fellow Macnners on the best PC. I thought about the new IBM laptops, but have no idea which line is the best one (X, T ?). WHen I choose a PC laptop I would like to get as close as possible in quality to the PB, of course I am stuck with MS Windows .

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks

[jafo9]

perhaps a different approach would be to get both. i know that may sound a little crazy, but you didn't mention the specs that you need for your PC. My experience from grad school was that the software that was program specific was not usually that processor/graphics intensive. this was in electrochemistry so i don't know what your applications will be.

my reasoning is this, you can get a cheapo PC to do the PC only stuff - especially if it is just a test taking box and spend the real dough on a mac. of course you know that most of the mainstream software exists on the mac as well. perhaps when you are given the software for the pc you could contact Micro$oft or whomever to see if they would trade you for the mac version. also many times the educational price of mac software is pretty low. this is something of a cake and eat it too scenero. perhaps going with a Ti rather than an AlBook would help with the cost differntial. for years i maintained both sides in my house. i just recently sold my last pc to buy my Ti. i grad school i had the 6100/66 with the 486/66 dos card which was perfect. hard to belive that was state of the art only a handful of years ago.

[Xterratop]

Originally posted by jafo9:
perhaps a different approach would be to get both. i know that may sound a little crazy, but you didn't mention the specs that you need for your PC. My experience from grad school was that the software that was program specific was not usually that processor/graphics intensive. this was in electrochemistry so i don't know what your applications will be.

I TOTALLY AGREE! Get yourself a cheap PC but still be loyal to your mac. I'm a graphic designer that used to work for a civil engineering firm. At the time, they were forcing me to get a PC running Windows NT to do my graphics. But then I convinced them that it would be best for me to do my work on my mac and get a PC to run the PC software. There are ways to work around this but I would NEVER want to go back to PC totally. Think about it.

[vmarks]

email me.

I can get you the IBM employee discount on purchasing a thinkpad. All you have to do is enter the stockholder/employee sales site and place your order.

I'm allowed to give it out to thirty people a year, so ask.

[audvidsvs]

I have to agree in general that the IBM Thinkpad's are the best mainstrean notebooks out there in the PC world.
Solid construction and lack of the fluff features, they just seem built for getting work done. Also maybe the best keyboard available in a portable.

On the other hand..I use Panasonic Toughbooks almost exclusivly. They are truly built for the long haul. I travel a lot and don't have to put my notebook in a padded case even. They are harder to find but worth it if you are planning on having it for a while.They lag slightly in introducing to latest features but I have never had a single instance of a problem with the hardware,unlike my experience with big blue.

They are worth looking at for sure.
I have a CF-71 as my daily driver and it looks good in an industrial but not overdone sort of way.

Good Luck

[Jens Peter]

I'm in the same situations as GK is. I also have to get a pc laptop for school work ( Visual Studio .NET - don't think that'll run in VPC) so I have read this thread carefully.
I wanted to get a laptop that have the same size as the iBook or the 12" powerbook - the only one that I can find, is the Dell C400. I haven't got the money for an IBM ( still a student...).
Are there some alternatives I have missed ? ( the same pricerange, please..) And have anyone had experince with a C400 ?

Jens Peter

[lr1000t]

My school also required us to buy a new PC laptop. In addition, they specifically do not allow Macs on exams. We had a choice between a Dell or an IBM. I already had a Dell, so I took a waiver. I just recently bought a 15" Powerbook, but I still need to use my PC. I shopped around forever and, repeating what you have read 100 times already, I liked the IBM T-series. I just couldn't afford one when I first started, but the new T40 or T40p has me watching them again. I probably won't always need both a PC and a Mac, but my PC laptop choice is the IBM T-series. Good luck.

[CheesePuff]

Originally posted by Jens Peter:
I'm in the same situations as GK is. I also have to get a pc laptop for school work ( Visual Studio .NET - don't think that'll run in VPC) so I have read this thread carefully.
I wanted to get a laptop that have the same size as the iBook or the 12" powerbook - the only one that I can find, is the Dell C400. I haven't got the money for an IBM ( still a student...).
Are there some alternatives I have missed ? ( the same pricerange, please..) And have anyone had experince with a C400 ?

Jens Peter

Read vmarks post (two up from yours) to get a discount on an IBM.

[weldon]

I agree that IBM makes good laptops. They have often put out the best keyboard of any laptop.

[edit: I mistakenly thought the t40 was a Pentium 4-M solution - my bad]

The T40 is a good choice because it uses the Pentium M. The 1.2-1.6 GHz P-M's offer similar performance to the 2-2.4 GHz Pentium-4's with much better battery life. Centrino notebooks use the Intel chipset with integrated 802.11b with the Pentium-M - and while they are nice, the Intel wireless is not the greatest out there. Dell has a 802.11a/b/g with Pentium-M solution that will give you better range than Intel and more options (a+g in addition to b).

I know it's confusing, but the Pentium M is a different animal than the Pentium 4 or Pentium 4-M. Try to find Pentium M laptops.

The new Dell Latitude D series is something to check out. The D-800 is a 15" widescreen laptop with decent styling.

Personally, I've been using PC laptops for the last 10 years. Compaq, HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, and IBM. Of those, I liked the IBM, Dell and Toshiba laptops. I would stick with those three brands and I don't think you'll be able to make a big mistake that you would regret.

Also, you definitely want WinXP on your laptop. Someone else mentioned Win2k, but that OS didn't have the power saving features for laptops that XP does. XP also has better support for wireless networking that will make using it on a laptop a much better experience.

[holygoat]

Originally posted by weldon:
Also, you definitely want WinXP on your laptop. Someone else mentioned Win2k, but that OS didn't have the power saving features for laptops that XP does. XP also has better support for wireless networking that will make using it on a laptop a much better experience. [/B]

I'd disagree with that - I use 2000 Professional on my Dell, and it fully supports Speedstep (for performance switching), Suspend, Suspend to Disk, auto-switching of performance, multiple batteries, brightness switching, etc. XP doesn't do anything extra, though you may find it difficult to find a non-XP machine outside of business supply channels.

I've also heard reports of 2000 being more stable; it certainly runs better on my laptop than XP on my friend's laptop.

YMMV.

Sidenote: it feels very odd discussing the merits of PC hardware and Windows versions on a Mac message board. Heh.

Particularly when I'm looking forward to the day when I have a nice little PowerBook!

[weldon]

Originally posted by holygoat:
I'd disagree with that - I use 2000 Professional on my Dell, and it fully supports Speedstep (for performance switching), Suspend, Suspend to Disk, auto-switching of performance, multiple batteries, brightness switching, etc. XP doesn't do anything extra, though you may find it difficult to find a non-XP machine outside of business supply channels.

OK. That's valid. Microsoft makes some different claims here. But I'd trust you on the power issues since you're running it. I think my point about wireless networking still holds true though.

[holygoat]

Originally posted by weldon:
I think my point about wireless networking still holds true though.

Yep. Though I don't plan on keeping this machine as my primary for long enough to find out!

Mmmm... 12"...

[Vi0]

For a PC Laptop, there is no other choice but Sager (www.sagernotebooks.com).

Not only are they the fastest notebooks on the market but also the least expensive and have the most features.

The brand names like IBM, Sony, etc. are just brand names slapped on the same laptops that all come from Taiwan from the same 3 different OEM laptop manufacturers.

So unless you just want to hand over $1000-1500 for nothing to IBM or Sony, go with a Sager. They can take quite a beating also.

[schmoe]

IBM, Sony, etc do not sell the same laptops with different stickers. The same OEM may make machines for different companies but each model has its own design, materials, etc. The more expensive models are made with better materials and more precise tolerances.

Read AnandTech's review of 3 Centrino laptops: http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.html?i=1801 Notice how each one has a different motherboard, components, cases, etc. Build quality varies by price, and as you can see from this thread IBM has the crown.

Sager might be nice if you want a huge heavyweight brick with every feature under the sun, built on the cheap. No thanks, most laptop buyers want a laptop not a desknote.

Originally posted by Vi0:
For a PC Laptop, there is no other choice but Sager (www.sagernotebooks.com).

Not only are they the fastest notebooks on the market but also the least expensive and have the most features.

The brand names like IBM, Sony, etc. are just brand names slapped on the same laptops that all come from Taiwan from the same 3 different OEM laptop manufacturers.

So unless you just want to hand over $1000-1500 for nothing to IBM or Sony, go with a Sager. They can take quite a beating also.

[Vi0]

Blah blah blah...

I'll keep my $1000-1500 rather than buying a name with no real benefit over Sager.

Sager isn't made "on the cheap." Its total quality, better than IBM in many people's opinion.

But I know you'll never agree, because IBM spends tons of money on advertisments telling you IBM is best instead of making their computers the best. So who cares.

Is a couple more pounds going to break your little girly arms? It doesn't have enough Feng-Shui like IBM? It doesn't coordinate with your faberge egg desk set?

haha! you are so funny.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Vi0:
Blah blah blah...

I'll keep my $1000-1500 rather than buying a name with no real benefit over Sager.

Sager isn't made "on the cheap." Its total quality, better than IBM in many people's opinion.

But I know you'll never agree, because IBM spends tons of money on advertisments telling you IBM is best instead of making their computers the best. So who cares.

Is a couple more pounds going to break your little girly arms? It doesn't have enough Feng-Shui like IBM? It doesn't coordinate with your faberge egg desk set?

haha! you are so funny.

I think you made your point a few posts ago. You like Sager. Good for you.

This doesn't mean you can insult people or their intelligence with "blah blah blah" "your little girly arms" and other nonsense.

Post your recommendation for Sager, tell us all about what's so great about it and why it's the best-kept secret, etc.

Do not get on other people's nerves because they happen to disagree with you. It's just not good forums etiquette.

[Vi0]

Don't tell people how or how they shouldn't post. If you don't like freedom of speech, maybe you should live in Israel full time my man. I posted my recommendation and then this other guy flames on Sager and calls it a piece of crap. Maybe you should tell him about etiqutte.

[appleleo323]

why you guys arguing. the guy asked a question so you guys could help him, not argue my laptop is better then your blah! Besides the person who asked the qestion hasn't answwered any of the questions. Like what his major is, what apps he needs, in my opinion it seems like he doesn't really care, he already has a laptop in mind and just wants to hear that people use that one and support it. Not bashing you GK but you haven't answere or posted anymore.Just my 2 cents

[mbryda]

Originally posted by Vi0:
Not only are they the fastest notebooks on the market but also the least expensive and have the most features.

Actually, that title goes to the Alienware laptops.

The brand names like IBM, Sony, etc. are just brand names slapped on the same laptops that all come from Taiwan from the same 3 different OEM laptop manufacturers.

Again, you are mistaken.

IBM Makes their own laptops, usually "Hecho En Mexico" (Made in Mexico, as are their desktops.)

Toshiba makes their own.

So does Sony.

The only ones that don't are Gateway, Dell, and the other generic cloners (after all, that's what Dell really is).


Sagers are good 'books, but the cream of the crop is IBM...Toshiba is a close second, and Sony a distant 3rd. Dell isn't even in the running.

[Drakino]

Look into a Compaq Evo based notebook. My Armada M700 (Old name for the Evo series) has held up to quite a bit of torture in the two years I have had it. Newer Evos will offer wireless networking with the antenna on the back of the screen, resulting in decent reception.

Dell laptops have always felt cheep to me with the plastics they use, complete with a horrible feeling and sounding LCD hinge in most. The M700 is a magnesium alloy case, and seems much more durable.

IBMs are also well built, but will probably cost more then you want to spend.

I don't have much more PC laptop experience beyond a Gateway 9300 laptop that was awesome for its time. Their laptops went downhill from that model on unfortunatly.

Good luck however you go. Laptops on the PC side can be awesome, or plain crap. Haven't seen many right in the middle.