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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Is Panther Faster?

Is Panther Faster?
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jmousseau44
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Oct 22, 2003, 11:25 PM
 
Just wondering if 10.3 runs overall noticeably (sp?) any faster than 10.2.

Thanx,

Jason
     
mikemako
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Oct 22, 2003, 11:29 PM
 
HaHaHa

Yes.

Look through the numerous topics in this forum for specifics.
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Adam Betts
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Oct 22, 2003, 11:33 PM
 
Originally posted by mikemako:
Look through the numerous topics in this forum for specifics.
Big time
     
gorickey
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Oct 22, 2003, 11:35 PM
 
Is the Pope Catholic?

Yes, it's faster.
     
Brass
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Oct 22, 2003, 11:41 PM
 
Despite all the talk of Panther being so much faster, I was disappointed to find no noticible increase in speed on either an iBook (466Mhz clamshell) or an iMac (600Mhz egg).
     
normyzo
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Oct 22, 2003, 11:50 PM
 
Did you try simple things like opening a sheet or Finder windows, or overall snappyness? I know, I know, but it *is* crisper and snappier than Jag.
     
Mrjinglesusa
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Oct 23, 2003, 12:02 AM
 
Originally posted by Brass:
Despite all the talk of Panther being so much faster, I was disappointed to find no noticible increase in speed on either an iBook (466Mhz clamshell) or an iMac (600Mhz egg).
Then you did something wrong (i.e. installed a dev build). It is definitely faster for me on both a Pismo 500 and iMac 800 (17")
     
DBvader
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Oct 23, 2003, 12:13 AM
 
it doesnt feel at all faster on my Dual 867/1GB RAM. Games, on the other hand, run noticeably faster.
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Brass
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Oct 23, 2003, 12:22 AM
 
Originally posted by Mrjinglesusa:
Then you did something wrong (i.e. installed a dev build). It is definitely faster for me on both a Pismo 500 and iMac 800 (17")
yeah, I must have the dev version of 7B85 as opposed to the GM version
     
alphasubzero949
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Oct 23, 2003, 01:08 AM
 
Originally posted by Brass:
yeah, I must have the dev version of 7B85 as opposed to the GM version
Must be all of that debug code™ in there.
     
Back up 15 and punt
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Oct 23, 2003, 01:10 AM
 
Can anybody tell me if window resizing is any smoother? I use a dual 450 and would like to see a cleaner resizing.
     
nobitacu
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Oct 23, 2003, 01:16 AM
 
Ah... the joy of Panther.... the faster, the better.

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RooneyX
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Oct 23, 2003, 01:54 AM
 
XBench results are 10% faster so something is working.

Everything is more fluid. But don't expect some sort of Star Trek operating system that does everything in real time at your command. No OS does that yet.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Oct 23, 2003, 02:58 AM
 
It is a LITTLE bit faster. Under 20% for some things.

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Andrew 8808
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Oct 23, 2003, 03:37 AM
 
I've noticed the menus are a bit quicker to come up, sheets popping out, etc. Apps seem to launch faster (could be because I just did a clean install last night). This is on a Dual 450. I think it's much nicer now.
     
dr. zoidberg
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Oct 23, 2003, 05:23 AM
 
Originally posted by Back up 15 and punt:
Can anybody tell me if window resizing is any smoother? I use a dual 450 and would like to see a cleaner resizing.
in my opinion resizing is one of the things that did not really improve too much. most other stuff feels quite speedier, though.
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Xeo
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Oct 23, 2003, 05:41 AM
 
I am working w/ 128 MB RAM right now. All I can say is UGH! I've never had to deal with such slow crap before! Now I know why people come here and say "OS X IS SO SLOW OMG THIS SUX WAT DO I DO???" and then explain how they're running on 128 MB RAM.

So Panther sucks on low RAM... just as every other OS X version has. But when I had 320, it was much faster (when not running RAM hogging apps).
     
Shaddim
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Oct 23, 2003, 08:02 AM
 
Originally posted by Xeo:
I am working w/ 128 MB RAM right now. All I can say is UGH! I've never had to deal with such slow crap before! Now I know why people come here and say "OS X IS SO SLOW OMG THIS SUX WAT DO I DO???" and then explain how they're running on 128 MB RAM.

So Panther sucks on low RAM... just as every other OS X version has. But when I had 320, it was much faster (when not running RAM hogging apps).
I consider 256MB to be the bare minimum... and I feel for ya. If you'll send me your mailing addy I'll ship you a 128MB stick free of charge. I hate seeing a fellow MacNNer suffer.

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xi_hyperon
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Oct 23, 2003, 10:11 AM
 
Originally posted by Xeo:
I am working w/ 128 MB RAM right now. All I can say is UGH! I've never had to deal with such slow crap before! Now I know why people come here and say "OS X IS SO SLOW OMG THIS SUX WAT DO I DO???" and then explain how they're running on 128 MB RAM.

So Panther sucks on low RAM... just as every other OS X version has. But when I had 320, it was much faster (when not running RAM hogging apps).
RAM is still pretty cheap, so I'd pack your Mac with as much as possible. It is worth it.
     
Agent69
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Oct 23, 2003, 10:23 AM
 
I "obtained" a copy of pre-GM Panther and it did seem faster on my eMac. I will be buying a copy tomorrow.
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Brass
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Oct 23, 2003, 05:17 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
XBench results are 10% faster so something is working.

Everything is more fluid. But don't expect some sort of Star Trek operating system that does everything in real time at your command. No OS does that yet.
Hey, I saw that Star Trek movie where Spock was speaking commands to a Mac Plus!!!

Although come to think of it, he didn't get much response, even after trying to use the mouse as a microphone.
     
Wevah
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Oct 23, 2003, 05:21 PM
 
Originally posted by Brass:
Hey, I saw that Star Trek movie where Spock was speaking commands to a Mac Plus!!!

Although come to think of it, he didn't get much response, even after trying to use the mouse as a microphone.
Scotty. Star Trek IV.

(And I'm not even a "Star Trek geek". :'( )
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mikemako
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Oct 23, 2003, 05:30 PM
 
Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
It is a LITTLE bit faster. Under 20% for some things.
I agree with the Severed Hand. It is not a HUGE boost as some may claim with every 10.x.x update, but it is noticeably faster. Just a little. Menus are faster. Windows respond to "close/minimize/restore" clicks more quickly.

Some parts are quite a bit slower, though! Login takes forever (compared with 10.2.8) for the desktop to be usable. The animation of the login window resizing so the password can be typed in is very choppy. We're talking Windows XP choppy. almost.

Sometimes the beachball will appear for a while. Outta the blue. Sometimes working with iTunes in Panther makes me want to kill. Sometimes the Finder becomes soooo sluggish.. and just stops. OK OK I will lay low. I do use GM but I shall be patient for 10.3.1 which I hope will bring this OS together.

What confuses me, is why they released Panther at this time.. they said "end of year" and I really don't feel it is finished. Oh no, I have fallen in with the "THEY'VE RELEASED A BETA" crowd. I suck.
( Last edited by mikemako; Oct 23, 2003 at 05:43 PM. )
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HvyMtlMdns
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Oct 23, 2003, 05:37 PM
 
Before I load Panther tomorrow (hint to FedEX - please deliver as promised ), I plan to time a couple of items in 10.2.8 and then compare them to 10.3 afterwards on both of my machines.

Test Items.
1. Power on to usable Finder
2. Launch of MS Office Suite (WD,PP, & XL)
3. Launch Mail
4. Launch Safari (and visit a few sites: Apple, CNN, ESPN, etc)
5. Launch Photoshop
6. Time to navigate hard drive on Dock from start to Utilities folder (I have lots of apps, especially in my tower that have slowed this process down over the past 2 years).
7. Log in / Log out of various users.
8. Lastly, time to complete a restart from Apple Menu.

Hopefully this will give me a good idea of what has changed with 10.3.

NOTE - Don't have time to do an erase and install at the moment, but will do so when the opportunity arises. I know this may affect the results.
MacMini 2.0 Ghz C2D/160GB/2GB RAM/8x Dual-Layer SD/3X 1 TB Ext HDs; iMac C2D 20" 2.66 GHz/320GB/2GB RAM/8x Dual-Layer SD/20" Display with external 20" Apple Cinema Display; PB G4 1.67 GHz 17"/250GB/1 GB RAM/8x Dual-Layer SD; 5G iPod Classic 160GB; 2G iPod Shuffle; AppleTV
     
Hop Pocket
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Oct 23, 2003, 05:57 PM
 
My first taste of Panther was the DP, way back when. It was much faster than 7B85 or what have you, although it is now still faster than Jaguar is , surely.

Those looking for DP-like speed increases will not find them . Unfortunately, the added stability comes at a performance hit. The DP was not usable. 10.3.0 is.

On my iBook700, it in almost every regard is slower than 10.2.8, although on my desktop dual1.25, it is noticeably faster.

That having been said, I don't give a flip about it. The smoothness and Exposé are wonderful enough. I'm planning on being in line tomorrow to pick up my boxed copy.
     
CheesePuff
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Oct 23, 2003, 07:25 PM
 
Must just be faster on G4's and G5's then (probably Altivec enhanced more parts of the code). I keep hearing people with G3's saying its the same or slower, but everyone else with a G4 saying its faster. Also maybe why Apple released iBook G4's right before Panther's release.
     
ChrisB
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Oct 23, 2003, 07:49 PM
 
I also had a feeling that that was why they just released G4 iBooks. It makes sense for Apple to slowly stop OS optimizations for the G3. They did the same thing after Mac OS 8.5.1. Starting with Mac OS 8.6 and up, it was optimized for G4's, but G3 performance just began to get worse. For pure speed I have a upgraded G3 at home staying at 8.5.1 because it responds almost instantanously compared to Mac OS 8.6 and 9.x.

I have always believed that you should never place an OS on a Mac that isn't the best performing version for it. So if 10.3 isn't what is best for your Mac, say an older G3, than downgrade so that you get the best possible usable speed while keeping the compatibility that you need with your software. It's just what is best for that Mac overall.
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jmousseau44  (op)
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Oct 23, 2003, 10:00 PM
 
...everyone. I'll be picking it up 2morrow.

Jason
     
goMac
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Oct 23, 2003, 10:46 PM
 
I tried running Jag on 32 MB's of memory once... It... wasn't happy....
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Oct 23, 2003, 10:59 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
Everything is more fluid. But don't expect some sort of Star Trek operating system that does everything in real time at your command. No OS does that yet.
Well, duh. Not until you wrap your optical processing Mac in a subspace field so the internal optics run at faster-than-light speeds... I mean, come on. That's Star Fleet computer science 101.

Sorry. Geeked out for a second there.
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emark
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Oct 23, 2003, 11:16 PM
 
Originally posted by Back up 15 and punt:
Can anybody tell me if window resizing is any smoother? I use a dual 450 and would like to see a cleaner resizing.
what kinda video card are you running? if it is still that smokin' 16 MB ATI Rage 128 Pro (AGP 2X) card that shipped w/ it you will probably find an upgrade to a 9000 or 8500 worthwhile....
     
besson3c
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Oct 24, 2003, 01:03 AM
 
Panther definitely feels considerably faster on my 300 Mhz iBook, and faster on my 1.25 Ghz PB as well.
     
gorgonzola
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Oct 24, 2003, 01:10 AM
 
Originally posted by CheesePuff:
Must just be faster on G4's and G5's then (probably Altivec enhanced more parts of the code). I keep hearing people with G3's saying its the same or slower, but everyone else with a G4 saying its faster. Also maybe why Apple released iBook G4's right before Panther's release.
This is odd, since reports about earlier builds of Panther suggested that the largest noticeable performance improvements would be on *older* systems (G3-based), not newer G4s or G5s.

I wonder what happened.
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henryblackman
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Oct 24, 2003, 05:04 AM
 
I've got 10.3 here, and it is noticably faster both on my iMac 800 MHz, and my iBook 700 Mhz (G3).

The iBook gets a dramatic improvement, especially with menus. No longer do I get a beach ball for a second when I try to select the Apple menu once I've application switched a couple of times. Finder is dramatically faster - given it's doing more, this is great.

Both with the iBook and iMac it feels like I've got a whole new computer the difference is so noticeable. There are still times where I wish it where faster, but I'm VERY happy with speed improvements.
     
Partisan01
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Oct 24, 2003, 10:39 AM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
XBench results are 10% faster so something is working.

Everything is more fluid. But don't expect some sort of Star Trek operating system that does everything in real time at your command. No OS does that yet.
QNX does, it's a realtime operating system. Check it out, it's really cool, used all over the place in embedded apps that need real time response.
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Catfish_Man
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Oct 24, 2003, 11:34 AM
 
Textedit on Panther opens at least as quickly as a new Finder window. Panther++;
     
fisherKing
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Oct 24, 2003, 04:12 PM
 
hmmm...
i just installed 10.3 on my pismo (400/768ram/20g 5400rpm hd), and it flies...

reminds me of os9.

for me, this is significant, since in 10.2.x my mac usually felt a little sluggish.

no substitute for a g4, but so far, i am LOVING 10.3
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KeilwerthSX90R
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Oct 24, 2003, 04:21 PM
 
Yes! On my dual Ghz with 1.75GB of RAM it is a truly noticable difference.
     
mcsjgs
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Oct 24, 2003, 04:29 PM
 
Startup times about half, finder faster, programs faster. Noticeably so. System is dual 1.25 G$ MDD w/ 2 Meg RAM
     
clarkgoble
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Oct 24, 2003, 04:46 PM
 
Originally posted by gorgonzola:
This is odd, since reports about earlier builds of Panther suggested that the largest noticeable performance improvements would be on *older* systems (G3-based), not newer G4s or G5s.

I wonder what happened.
It is probably perceived speed due to faster animations on things like sheets, menus and so forth. That will affect all platforms.
     
   
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