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chabig · Feb 21, 2006, 04:03 PM

I know a lot of people like to complain about .Mac, claiming that you don't get much for the price. But not Microsoft is going to charge $50 per year for "protection" that really should ship with the OS, and isn't even required on a Mac. Considering that, I wonder if Microsoft's decision will influence people's opinion of .Mac, which actually provides features and services above and beyond what you get in the box.

Chris

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 21, 2006, 04:14 PM

.Mac is still a rip off.

Chuckit · Feb 21, 2006, 04:18 PM

Let's say $50 of .Mac is for the virus protection — which would make it equal to One-Care, although, as you say, it's actually worth less on a Mac. That leaves $50 for backup and synching (which is included out-of-the-box with Vista from what I've heard) and a shitty Web host.

Still a ripoff.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 21, 2006, 04:20 PM

Why would any one want virus protection on a Mac? They do more harm than good.

Maflynn · Feb 21, 2006, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Let's say $50 of .Mac is for the virus protection

Virus protection? They don't offer virex any more so there's less reason to have .mac.

For the record, I don't think its a rip off, I use it and all of the features it offers are well worth the price.

RAILhead · Feb 21, 2006, 04:41 PM

I use it all the bloody time.

rickey939 · Feb 21, 2006, 04:52 PM

I [heart] .Mac very much.

TETENAL · Feb 21, 2006, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by rickey939

I ♡ .Mac very much.

Fixed.™

rickey939 · Feb 21, 2006, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Fixed.™

I [appreciate] the correction.

Chuckit · Feb 21, 2006, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Fixed.™

You're not supposed to actually fix it when you do that.

Miniryu · Feb 22, 2006, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

.Mac is still a rip off.

It is? Please recommend a way to get every feature .Mac offers and just as simple to use for cheaper.

iDisk is far easier than using ftp to upload stuff to my website (I save my DreamWeaver files directly to the iDisk folder). It is very easy to click the menu bar icon to sync my bookmarks, calendars, and address book contacts at once. It is very easy to upload the photos already in my iPhoto collection online where people can view or download them at their original size. I use back up with an external HD- I hear this feature could be better but it works for me. I have my own name as my email address- I have a common name and it is already taken on every other service. Plus, we get 5 aliases. Very cool.

My only complain is that I can't run WordPress from my iDisk. If you do have a cheap, simple solution to .Mac that will let me run WordPress I would love to hear it.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 22, 2006, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Miniryu

It is? Please recommend a way to get every feature .Mac offers and just as simple to use for cheaper.

iDisk is far easier than using ftp to upload stuff to my website (I save my DreamWeaver files directly to the iDisk folder). It is very easy to click the menu bar icon to sync my bookmarks, calendars, and address book contacts at once. It is very easy to upload the photos already in my iPhoto collection online where people can view or download them at their original size. I use back up with an external HD- I hear this feature could be better but it works for me. I have my own name as my email address- I have a common name and it is already taken on every other service. Plus, we get 5 aliases. Very cool.

My only complain is that I can't run WordPress from my iDisk. If you do have a cheap, simple solution to .Mac that will let me run WordPress I would love to hear it.

Hey if you need it to be that easy and you're willing to pay that much go nuts. I don't see anything hard about using FTP.

Heck you could set up your own home server for less than .Mac.

Miniryu · Feb 22, 2006, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Hey if you need it to be that easy and you're willing to pay that much go nuts. I don't see anything hard about using FTP.

Heck you could set up your own home server for less than .Mac.

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, I'm seriously looking for an alternative now that I discovered WordPress doesn't work on .Mac. How much does 1 gig of storage space cost elsewhere with PHP etc. support? Is there a service that syncs contacts (I know there is a bookmark syncing service already)? Photos?

$100 is a lot. I'm not willing to pay $50 for the easy- exactly how much cheaper is all of this stuff elsewhere?

besson3c · 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Miniryu

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, I'm seriously looking for an alternative now that I discovered WordPress doesn't work on .Mac. How much does 1 gig of storage space cost elsewhere with PHP etc. support? Is there a service that syncs contacts (I know there is a bookmark syncing service already)? Photos?

$100 is a lot. I'm not willing to pay $50 for the easy- exactly how much cheaper is all of this stuff elsewhere?

1) Address Book syncing: there are probably Shareware solutions that will transfer your AB data from one machine to another, I haven't looked into this. A Groupware solution that wrote entires to an LDAP server would allow you read access via Address Book, but you'll probably have a hard time finding a host that provides access to your own Groupware server.

2) Mail: easy, nothing special about .Mac mail accounts

3) iChat screen names: don't need to pay for a .Mac account to use .Mac account iChat names.

4) iCal calendar sharing: any WebDAV equipped server will support this, nothing magical here. Groupware solutions like OpenGroupware or Kolab also support hosting iCal calendars. No product will support reading and writing to the same calendar yet from different machines/users, including .Mac.

5) Anti-virus. ClamAV is free and works just fine in dealing with Windows viruses.

6) iWeb: iWeb will support saving your site to a folder, so you can use iWeb with a different host

7) iPhoto photo sharing: use the Gallery iPhoto plug with Gallery, works beautifully.

8) iDisk: nothing special about this, except Finder integration.

What have I left out?

Don't bother with FTP, it is quite insecure. Go with a provider that will provide you with sFTP access, or even Netatalk (Appletalk). Using sFTP you can use tools such as rsync to allow syncing between two folders, or scp (secure copy).

If you want a cheap host that will offer you all the bells and whistles, grab a PC and install FreeBSD on it. It will take time to learn something new, but you'll be able to do so much and save yourself some cash in the long run.

Really, what .Mac comes down to IMHO is $100 for Address Book syncing, and integration with Apple's apps. It isn't worth it to me. I also resent the fact that Apple locks you into .Mac with their own apps, when there isn't anything particularly special about .Mac.

Really, .Mac is not some magical server running anything other than your basic run-of-the-mill open source server software.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 22, 2006, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Miniryu

$100 is a lot. I'm not willing to pay $50 for the easy- exactly how much cheaper is all of this stuff elsewhere?

I dunno I get 2 gigs online storage for a whooping $0

http://gdisk.sourceforge.net/

Miniryu · Feb 22, 2006, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

1) Address Book syncing: there are probably Shareware solutions that will transfer your AB data from one machine to another, I haven't looked into this. A Groupware solution that wrote entires to an LDAP server would allow you read access via Address Book, but you'll probably have a hard time finding a host that provides access to your own Groupware server.

2) Mail: easy, nothing special about .Mac mail accounts

3) iChat screen names: don't need to pay for a .Mac account to use .Mac account iChat names.

4) iCal calendar sharing: any WebDAV equipped server will support this, nothing magical here. Groupware solutions like OpenGroupware or Kolab also support hosting iCal calendars. No product will support reading and writing to the same calendar yet from different machines/users, including .Mac.

5) Anti-virus. ClamAV is free and works just fine in dealing with Windows viruses.

6) iWeb: iWeb will support saving your site to a folder, so you can use iWeb with a different host

7) iPhoto photo sharing: use the Gallery iPhoto plug with Gallery, works beautifully.

8) iDisk: nothing special about this, except Finder integration.

What have I left out?

Don't bother with FTP, it is quite insecure. Go with a provider that will provide you with sFTP access, or even Netatalk (Appletalk). Using sFTP you can use tools such as rsync to allow syncing between two folders, or scp (secure copy).

If you want a cheap host that will offer you all the bells and whistles, grab a PC and install FreeBSD on it. It will take time to learn something new, but you'll be able to do so much and save yourself some cash in the long run.

Really, what .Mac comes down to IMHO is $100 for Address Book syncing, and integration with Apple's apps. It isn't worth it to me. I also resent the fact that Apple locks you into .Mac with their own apps, when there isn't anything particularly special about .Mac.

Really, .Mac is not some magical server running anything other than your basic run-of-the-mill open source server software.

Just to add to your list- I think http://del.icio.us/ works similar to .Mac Bookmarks, but probably not as quick to access.

I dunno- having my contacts online and synced has saved me many times. I've been on the road and needed to contact people I recently added to my address book back in my office.

Severed Hand of Skywalker: gDisk looks friggin sweet! But can it host a website, or does it only serve as storage space? I don't need storage, I need a host. Also, I can't host from my own tower because I don't have a dedicated connection to the internet anymore. I get my internet from Barnes & Noble now

(can you tell I just moved to more expensive housing)

besson3c · Feb 22, 2006, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Miniryu

Just to add to your list- I think http://del.icio.us/ works similar to .Mac Bookmarks, but probably not as quick to access.

I dunno- having my contacts online and synced has saved me many times. I've been on the road and needed to contact people I recently added to my address book back in my office.

Severed Hand of Skywalker: gDisk looks friggin sweet! But can it host a website, or does it only serve as storage space? I don't need storage, I need a host. Also, I can't host from my own tower because I don't have a dedicated connection to the internet anymore. I get my internet from Barnes & Noble now

(can you tell I just moved to more expensive housing)

If you need to bring your contacts with you, you can also do so with a cellphone or iPod using iSync.

Miniryu · Feb 22, 2006, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

If you need to bring your contacts with you, you can also do so with a cellphone or iPod using iSync.

my cellphone was one of those cheap ones that cannot sync. There is no way I am keeping my cellphone, wallent, and keys AND iPod (20 gig) on my body at all times- I have my limit of pockets and mental energy to keep track of them all.

After this thread, I am actually feeling pretty justified in my purchase of .Mac. Sure $100 may be expensive, but if you use all of the services, there is no comparable product out there.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 22, 2006, 02:35 PM

flikr is great and it works with iPhoto with a plugin.

Free or 10x cheaper than .mac depending on what you do.

besson3c · Feb 22, 2006, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Miniryu

my cellphone was one of those cheap ones that cannot sync. There is no way I am keeping my cellphone, wallent, and keys AND iPod (20 gig) on my body at all times- I have my limit of pockets and mental energy to keep track of them all.

After this thread, I am actually feeling pretty justified in my purchase of .Mac. Sure $100 may be expensive, but if you use all of the services, there is no comparable product out there.

How do you figure that? Like I said, Address Book syncing is about the only feature that can't be replaced elsewhere, AFAIK. Is Address Book syncing worth $100 to you?

Of course, this is assuming there aren't any Shareware/Freeware/Open Source Address Book syncing utilities... There could very well be.

::maroma:: · Feb 22, 2006, 04:02 PM

The money one spends for .Mac is more for convenience than function. Yes you could go out and get separate apps and services for each of .Mac's available services, but you would waste a lot more time doing so and you'd have to manage each one separately. Keeping track of versions, bugs, etc for each app and service. Then there's the high possibility that if Apple updates the OS, certain services or apps might just stop working until they're fixed (if they're fixed).

I'm not claiming whether .Mac is a ripoff or not, all I'm saying is you pay for convenience. Much like you pay more for a gallon of milk at 7-11 than you would at a large grocery store. You pay more because 7-11 is down the street, and the large grocery store is 5 miles away.

I use .Mac. I like it. It works for me. I don't have to think about it ever. It always works with my apps. I use many of its services, but not all. I use it for personal use as well as work. The price is worth it to me. But the price is not worth it to everyone. To each his own. How is that so hard to understand?

Miniryu · Feb 23, 2006, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

How do you figure that? Like I said, Address Book syncing is about the only feature that can't be replaced elsewhere, AFAIK. Is Address Book syncing worth $100 to you?

I've been looking since this discussion began- I can't find any actual syncing software/services. I have two towers and an iBook. They all have the same bookmarks (right as I open my browers, I don't need to log into anything), same calendars, same address book, and same Keychains for internet passwords (I forgot to mention that .Mac does keychain syncing too). Where else can you get that? You can't. It saves time. Time equals money.

MaxPower2k3 · Feb 23, 2006, 09:16 AM

The majority of the people on this forum (or, at least, the ones that frequent the lounge) aren't really the target audience for .mac. I don't think it was ever really meant for the übergeek who needs complete control and advanced web hosting features. It's meant for people with very little computer experience who previously would've had to take on the fairly daunting (for a new user) tasks listed by besson3c a few posts up just to get some of the functionality of .mac. Most regular computer users would much rather just pay $100 and have it all there and functional (to the extent that they need it) than spend their time hunting around for free alternatives to specific features.

besson3c · 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Miniryu

I've been looking since this discussion began- I can't find any actual syncing software/services. I have two towers and an iBook. They all have the same bookmarks (right as I open my browers, I don't need to log into anything), same calendars, same address book, and same Keychains for internet passwords (I forgot to mention that .Mac does keychain syncing too). Where else can you get that? You can't. It saves time. Time equals money.

rsync will do that, in addition to syncing anything else stored in your home directory:

rsync -av /source/path username@destination_computer:destination/path

This can be scripted to work at whatever time interval you need.

I didn't think of this very general-purpose tool earlier, but it definitely is viable and not too difficult to use.

besson3c · Feb 23, 2006, 10:34 AM

Any developers reading?

Write up a front end to rsync designed to replace .Mac syncing services. Allow syncing of Mac stuff from Mac to Mac, or Mac to server to Mac, focus on bookmarks, keychain stuff, address book stuff, etc. Allow for crontab/launchd item creation. Market this thing as a .Mac replacement, even provide your own server to customers who would appreciate this (I can help with this part).

This app ought to be an immediate success.

besson3c · Feb 23, 2006, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Any developers reading?

Write up a front end to rsync designed to replace .Mac syncing services. Allow syncing of Mac stuff from Mac to Mac, or Mac to server to Mac, focus on bookmarks, keychain stuff, address book stuff, etc. Allow for crontab/launchd item creation. Market this thing as a .Mac replacement, even provide your own server to customers who would appreciate this (I can help with this part).

This app ought to be an immediate success.

Developers, developers, developers...

Bumping this to learn what you think of my brilliant or not-so-brilliant idea...

Miniryu · Feb 25, 2006, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Any developers reading?

Write up a front end to rsync designed to replace .Mac syncing services. Allow syncing of Mac stuff from Mac to Mac, or Mac to server to Mac, focus on bookmarks, keychain stuff, address book stuff, etc. Allow for crontab/launchd item creation. Market this thing as a .Mac replacement, even provide your own server to customers who would appreciate this (I can help with this part).

This app ought to be an immediate success.

I'd pay $70 for this- then I wouldn't have to pay for .Mac anymore (the other $30 would go to buying cheaper online hosting to host my syncs and my website.)