[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Person Man:
In light of piracy's track record with OS releases, why should we doubt it when he says Apple delayed their announcement because the Pope was sick? He never posts anything unless he means it.

We will probably never know the truth. Did Apple really plan to announce Tiger's pending release on April 1? Did they put off the announcement because the Pope is sick? Most of the posts on the issue are just pointless speculation. I have never seen piracy engage in pointless speculation. He most definitely would not have said what he did if it weren't true, otherwise he wouldn't have involved himself in this matter.

Yup. While some find it hard to see the Pope vs. Tiger connection, but there is a certain logic to it. If I were running a company, I wouldn't want my product announcements to come out at a time when everyone is thinking about the death of a major religious figure either. It's just not good business. Whether this is 100% the reason or not... Well, let's just leave it at that.

However, we can be sure Tiger did in fact go gold. Sure, it's the rumour sites that said it, but when piracy confirmed it's gold, it's gold. ie. CONFIRMED!!!

---

428 is the gold master, but here's a review of 8A420:

I certainly expected Tiger to be faster than Panther on the G5 Macs. After all a lot of people are talking about the 64-bit architecture of Tiger and the 64-bit processor of the G5. Some are saying that until third party applications are built to take advantage of the 64-bit OS there will be no speed increase. Clearly this is not so, even our G4 processors are seeing remarkable speed increases across the board.

I suppose you can judge the amount of speed increase in Tiger by my own annoyance of Panther. If I was unhappy enough with the performance of Panther that I went back to a Tiger beta it says a lot about the new OS. I am not the kind of person that enjoys using beta software, mostly because the glitches in beta software can be unexpected and hinder my work. I installed Tiger thinking I would run it for a day or two and then go back to Panther. Instead, I kept it on the PowerBook and only moved back to Panther due to a glitch that wouldn�t allow me to run a shareware app I use daily. I went back to Tiger because of the speed, period.

[kcmac]

That article is a fun read and further creates my desire for Tiger. MacNet has been pretty good lately about providing some pre-info on Tiger. It will be nice when we see the day that all the details can be revealed. All good things however, can wait.

[Eug Wanker]

From a comment added later to that article:

Lastly, when we said that it will take days to see every new feature we mean it, even the option to save a page as a PDF has changed and now offers several variations of saving it as a PDF. Tiger is the best thought-out operating system we can imagine, it looks as though every detail was tweaked and nothing was overlooked.

Cool. The part below is a bit worrisome though.

As for all this hoopla over any NDA violation; Our aim is to assist Apple is promoting their products and since Apple is providing all kinds of information about Tiger on their own website we feel we have have violated the spirit of the NDA, but not to the detriment of Apple. If they want to sic the lawyers on us we can't stop them, we can only hope they appreciate our efforts.

For the record, Developers with Seed Keys CAN provide other non-seed holders with a SEED KEY, which is how we obtained the latest build. We did not make the mistake of providing screen shots like we did last time, so hopefully Apple will let it all slide. If not, well, I suppose we'll face that bridge when we come to it. But what with Appleinsider, eWeek, Think Secret, and others talking about Tiger we just did what they would not; admit we have it and are running tests on it. Clearly we understand that the shipping build will be different and probably even better than what we have.

We desire to promote Apple in a positive light, and when we can we will. I apologize if any of our readers are upset that we would admit to having a beta build, our intention was not to piss off anybody, but rather to inform readers that upgrading to Tiger is a good idea.

[osxisfun]

i am not doubting them in this case but for history, wasn't this the same site that had the guy say "its so much faster. they took out the debug code" or some such jujst hours after 10.0 was release?

i am not sure but i think this is the site that i stopped read when the owner of the site (the same person) made some wildly inappriate comments during the last election...


I'll wait till i get it in my hands.

and isn't this para wrong?:

I certainly expected Tiger to be faster than Panther on the G5 Macs. After all a lot of people are talking about the 64-bit architecture of Tiger and the 64-bit processor of the G5. Some are saying that until third party applications are built to take advantage of the 64-bit OS there will be no speed increase. Clearly this is not so, even our G4 processors are seeing remarkable speed increases across the board.


I have heard that 64 bit apps are actually a tad slower since they need to "check thru more ram.

thoughts?

[JLL]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
428 is the gold master, but here's a review of 8A420:

I'm surprised that Tiger didn't brake for them yet and that they aren't bitching about Apple not giving them a refund

[Eug Wanker]

osxisfun,

But yeah, that comment about the 64-bitness seems off. However, they go on to say their logic wasn't justified, cuz they're seeing the speedup on their G4s.

And that's not a surprise at all, considering I've been hearing from multiple sources that Tiger speeds things up, especially on machines with fast GPUs. However, those sources have basically always just been forum posts and such.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
From a comment added later to that article:

For the record, Developers with Seed Keys CAN provide other non-seed holders with a SEED KEY, which is how we obtained the latest build. We did not make the mistake of providing screen shots like we did last time, so hopefully Apple will let it all slide. If not, well, I suppose we'll face that bridge when we come to it. But what with Appleinsider, eWeek, Think Secret, and others talking about Tiger we just did what they would not; admit we have it and are running tests on it. Clearly we understand that the shipping build will be different and probably even better than what we have.

Still a violation of the Terms of Service. Developers with Seed Keys are ONLY permitted to provide seed keys to other people WITHIN THE SAME ORGANIZATION, not to some random "developer" on the street.

Providing a seed key to someone not in the same organization is a violation of the Terms of Service, and is also probably a violation of the NDA as well. Period.

[osxisfun]

yah. i have no doubt tiger will be faster... i just don't like the source..

oh well.


dozen donuts says no announcement on monday

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:

However, we can be sure Tiger did in fact go gold. Sure, it's the rumour sites that said it, but when piracy confirmed it's gold, it's gold. ie. CONFIRMED!!!

It sure took piracy long enough to gain credibility among us veteran members...

Personally, I'm still waiting to find out what post-8A428 build (or build series) will be proclaimed the "actual" Gold Master

10.0: "4K78 is GM!" "No, 4K83 is GM" (4K78 was what was in boxes)
10.1: "5G64 is GM!" "No, 5G68 is GM" (5G64 was what was in boxes)
10.2: "6C115 is GM!" "No, 6C115b is GM" (6C115 was what was in boxes, furthermore, there was no such thing as "6C115b")
10.3: "7B85 is GM!" "No, it's not, I've seen 7Cxx builds! One of them will be GM" (7B85 was what was in boxes)

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
I don't think Person Man was joking. Several of us (including me) have said the same thing: piracy knows what he's talking about. Go back and read the posts right before every other release. You'll see a pattern.

Jeez, you mean he categorically emphasises something that virtually everyone knows already?

[piracy]

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
Jeez, you mean he categorically emphasises something that virtually everyone knows already?

No dude, and if you'd go back and look, you'd see that.

Yet another person who doesn't know his history...


minor modification by Detrius

[Grrr]

Well, Ol Popey is dead now. Bless his cotton socks..
So no more excuses!

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by piracy:
No dipshit, if you'd go back and look, you'd see that.

Yet another person who doesn't know his history...

Who you calling a dude? Little muffin. I've watched your so-called proclamations right before a release, know what? means technically nothing, since you aren't an official Apple press release, AI beat ya to it. You only step in and arrogantly claim what everyone knows. ...or thinks they know from rumors

Does that make you all-knowing, or just a narcissist who thinks that if he shouts loudest, he must be saying somethjing no-one knows.
...no replacement for a misogynistic attempt at an insult to piracy and women in general.


modifications made by Detrius

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by piracy:


Yet another person who doesn't know his history...

History? In regards to you posting in here over the years? Who gives a ****, you've not said much that most of us don't know, and what you do say is as boring as hell.

But hey, feel fre to blow your own ****, if it makes you smile.

[Eug Wanker]

Calm down people.

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Calm down people.

I'm just a bit drunk, anyhoo.


You know, drunk typing can get you a TUI... or baninated if you don't stop. Detrius

[Geobunny]

Calm down folk, enough of the childish name calling please.

I seem to remember Piracy having a number of threads describing things which people did not already know and which turned out to be true. For what it's worth (and it's proly not worth very much to many of you) I believe him and am looking forward to getting my hands on it, whenever that may be.

[Eug Wanker]

For those of you haven't seen it yet, somebody posted the Tiger intro video in the Lounge. (Option-click to save to disk.)

[Sage]

May I ask (mostly to piracy, I guess ): How long will Apple postpone Tiger? Monday, Tuesday, Friday? Also, do you happen to know if a speed-bumped iMac will be announced at the same time, or will that be later in April? (My dad's in desperate need of a new computer now, so we need to know whether to get one today or wait a couple days for the new one.)

[NeilCharter]

Well the Pope has passed away now, so if that was an issue then it has happened.

The other suggestion that made a lot of sense to me is that Friday would have been a bad day to annouce Tiger for publicity reasons.

Often Apple annouce stuff on Tuesdays. Maybe it will happen then.

I'm thinking that Apple may wait until the NAB keynote.

After Jobs has run through Tiger's specs, he tell the audience to look under their seats and there'll be a Tiger box and say that Tiger is available immediately for sale, along with all the newly upgraded apps.

[NeilCharter]

My advice to Sage is to wait for Tiger to be announced before buying a new mac. Otherwise you'll have to pay for Tiger. The very latest Tiger will be announced is at at the NAB (April 16th I think)

[Person Man]

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
You only step in and arrogantly claim what everyone knows.

No.

If you look at what typically happens, the rumor sites announce what build is GM. Which is what you claim is "what everyone knows."

Then you get people who say that the information is wrong, that a build that is newer is actually the GM, and these people will vigorously defend it and flame anyone who suggests otherwise.

All piracy has done is use those same tactics to defend and confirm "what everyone knows."

He has been right enough times that if some rumor site posts that a certain build is GM and it is actually NOT the GM, and piracy says that it isn't, I'll know for sure that it isn't.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by NeilCharter:
I'm thinking that Apple may wait until the NAB keynote.

After Jobs has run through Tiger's specs, he tell the audience to look under their seats and there'll be a Tiger box and say that Tiger is available immediately for sale, along with all the newly upgraded apps.

Apple is not giving a keynote at NAB. They are hosting a special developer event on the NAB weekend though.

Originally posted by NeilCharter:
My advice to Sage is to wait for Tiger to be announced before buying a new mac. Otherwise you'll have to pay for Tiger. The very latest Tiger will be announced is at at the NAB (April 16th I think)

I agree.

[NeilCharter]

OK if there's no keynote at NAB then I cannot see why there would be any delay to an annoucement barring a few days.

I'm definitely ready for Tiger. Panther is getting a bit long in the tooth and I want to play with something new.

On a side note - is there anyway to have a spellchecker for safari?

[Moose]

Originally posted by NeilCharter:
On a side note - is there anyway to have a spellchecker for safari?

...ever checked the contextual menu of a <textarea> or an <input type="text" />?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by NeilCharter:
OK if there's no keynote at NAB then I cannot see why there would be any delay to an annoucement barring a few days.

Well, there weren't too many people saying the official announcement would be at NAB.
I agree it will likely be sooner, and I'm guessing it will be in the coming week. Maybe piracy can comment...

[NeilCharter]

Moose

Thanks for the spellchecker pointer - I'm kinda surprised it is not turned on by default.

Wanker

It was just a thought given that the NAB was coming and that Jobs may have been talking there.

[Eug Wanker]

Stolen from another forum:

OK, I've had an early (post-WWDC) build of Tiger installed on a spare drive for quite some time, hadn't rebooted in a while to test it. Here are a few things I noticed (again):

Mail is fast. I mean instantaneous in 20k+ folders, whereas Panther Mail takes its time.

The Finder seems better threaded, and some works seems to have been put in Carbon UI reentrancy. Generating a preview of a large .avi doesn't hang the Finder, you can browse other windows and you can stop the preview generation. And you can move hung up Finder windows, hence my comment about Carbon UI re-entrancy.

A simple Finder test I have is seeing how long it takes to switch between column and list view on my iChat archive folder, which contains over 2,5k files. Panther takes close to 10s, whereas Tiger takes a second or so.

[osxisfun]

http://apple.co.nz/events/2005/wwdc2005_preview/

aussie WWDC 05 preview MONDAY.

blah blah tiger. blah blah tiger.

[Fusion]

Piracy > It was nice to hear the conformation about the GM build, thank you.

The rest of you > Why do you all insist on turning another Tiger thread down the wrong road. What does it all matter? I feel like I am looking through the window of a kindergarden class watching two little kids fight over whose dad could beat up the other.

[Eug Wanker]

MacRumors has thrown yet another date into the mix.

"No reliable information on the fate of Tiger has surfaced, but one unconfirmed report claims that Apple Stores have called staff meetings on April 17th, providing speculation that April 18th may be official launch day."

BTW:

Panther 7B85 went gold on September 30, 2003.
Panther was officially announced on October 8, 2003.
Panther was released on October 24, 2003.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Fusion:
I feel like I am looking through the window of a kindergarden class watching two little kids fight over whose dad could beat up the other.

Well, he could beat up your dad.

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
MacRumors has thrown yet another date into the mix.

"No reliable information on the fate of Tiger has surfaced, but one unconfirmed report claims that Apple Stores have called staff meetings on April 17th, providing speculation that April 18th may be official launch day."

BTW:

Panther 7B85 went gold on September 30, 2003.
Panther was officially announced on October 8, 2003.
Panther was released on October 24, 2003.

this would follow (if they announce tues) their 2 weeks announce date / ship pattern

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
this would follow (if they announce tues) their 2 weeks announce date / ship pattern

Well...

Jaguar was announced on July 17, 2002.
Jaguar was released on August 23, 2002.

That's 5 weeks later.

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Well...

Jaguar was announced on July 17, 2002.
Jaguar was released on August 23, 2002.

That's 5 weeks later.

noooo... you are runing my day....

[k2director]

Jag and Panther finally went on sale on a Friday. That makes sense, because Friday is followed by 2 weekend days where people have the easiest time getting to a store and buying the product. So my bet is a Friday launch is still the case.

April 17, 11:00am is the date for Apple's news event at NAB. Definitely new media apps, and possibly computers. Maybe that's what the Apple Store staff meetings are oriented towards as well.

My guess is that Tiger will go on sale Friday, April 15th, but more likely, the 22nd.

[osxisfun]

From macminute:

Best Buy stores now selling Mac minis
April 4 - 17:50 EDT__ Following our report earlier today on Best Buy stores planning to carry the Mac mini, several MacMinute readers note that they have already seen the low-cost computer at the retailer. "The Mac mini was available this weekend at my local Best Buy in northwest Ohio," one reader said. "I work for Best Buy in San Luis Obispo, California, and we are already selling Mac minis," another reader said. Others note that the Mac mini is available on Best Buy's website -- but it has been available online since late January.

Dear Best Buy,

Do they have upgrade coupons?

signed/

Consumer

[Geobunny]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
<snip>
Do they have upgrade coupons?

Every piece of software you buy from Apple, be it boxed or bundled with a new machine, comes with those ridiculous upgrade coupons. It's such a waste of paper, especially considering that you don't actually use them, you use a dated proof of purchase/invoice/till receipt.

More often than not, the coupons mean precisely bugger all. They only time they're of any use is if you buy your mac/software between the announcement date and the availability date of the software in question...or indeed if some retailer sells you (for example) 10.3 after 10.4 has been announced/released officially.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Geobunny:
Every piece of software you buy from Apple, be it boxed or bundled with a new machine, comes with those ridiculous upgrade coupons. It's such a waste of paper, especially considering that you don't actually use them, you use a dated proof of purchase/invoice/till receipt.

More often than not, the coupons mean precisely bugger all. They only time they're of any use is if you buy your mac/software between the announcement date and the availability date of the software in question...or indeed if some retailer sells you (for example) 10.3 after 10.4 has been announced/released officially.

Didn't you need to show your 10.0 proof of purchase to get the free 10.1 update when that came out?

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Didn't you need to show your 10.0 proof of purchase to get the free 10.1 update when that came out?

I didn't, I just signed a form, gave them my details and they gave me a copy. It was quite surreal to get somthing free from the same Apple centre that charged 98 UK Pounds for a Plantalk Microphone.

[Geobunny]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Didn't you need to show your 10.0 proof of purchase to get the free 10.1 update when that came out?

No, that's exactly the upgrade I was talking about actually. I took mine with me but wasn't asked for them, all they wanted to see was an invoice/receipt. There were quite a lot of customers there who didn't know which vouchers the shop assistant was talking about, so they just stopped asking for them.

[nickw311]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
From macminute:

Best Buy stores now selling Mac minis
April 4 - 17:50 EDT__ Following our report earlier today on Best Buy stores planning to carry the Mac mini, several MacMinute readers note that they have already seen the low-cost computer at the retailer. "The Mac mini was available this weekend at my local Best Buy in northwest Ohio," one reader said. "I work for Best Buy in San Luis Obispo, California, and we are already selling Mac minis," another reader said. Others note that the Mac mini is available on Best Buy's website -- but it has been available online since late January.

Dear Best Buy,

Do they have upgrade coupons?

signed/

Consumer

In reply to your post about Best Buy in NW Ohio, I went to the one in Findlay (NW Ohio) last Thursday and they had the Mini locked up in a cage like case near the floor. It wasn't even on display. When I asked the associate about it he was telling me about how it is too expensive for what you get and that the processor is really slow. meanwhile he was trying to sell my friend a Pentium M laptop with a clockspeed of 1.6 ghz but somehow that processor wasn't slow because Pentium M processors are different

[Eug Wanker]

Posted yesterday: Developing with Core Data

Core Data, new in Tiger, completes the Cocoa vision for building well-factored applications based on the Model-View-Controller (MVC) pattern by providing a strong, flexible, and powerful data model framework.

Originally posted by nickw311:
When I asked the associate about it he was telling me about how it is too expensive for what you get and that the processor is really slow. meanwhile he was trying to sell my friend a Pentium M laptop with a clockspeed of 1.6 ghz but somehow that processor wasn't slow because Pentium M processors are different

While I think the Mac mini is a very good value, that sales associate is largely correct about chip speeds.

The Pentium M 1.6 is significantly faster than the 1.42 GHz G4 in raw application speed. In fact, it's significantly faster than the fastest G4 shipping in Macs today. The G4 1.67 GHz in the PowerBook, although OK, is slower than the Pentium M 1.6 for most applications.

[kcmac]

Best Buy will always continue to be a disaster. This just isn't a Mac thing, it applies to everything they sell. They succeed because they are the biggest and get the best price breaks. This doesn't equate to having good or knowledgeable sales people.

I just don't think selling the mini will be as easy as selling the iPod in a store like this. It just fosters the spread of misinformation by people who know next to zero in the first place.

[lookmark]

Originally posted by kcmac:
Best Buy will always continue to be a disaster. This just isn't a Mac thing, it applies to everything they sell. They succeed because they are the biggest and get the best price breaks. This doesn't equate to having good or knowledgeable sales people.

I just don't think selling the mini will be as easy as selling the iPod in a store like this. It just fosters the spread of misinformation by people who know next to zero in the first place.

No doubt, but the mac mini seems less vulnerable to using the Mac for bait-and-switch, than say, the iMac is. We'll see.

[nickw311]

at least at the CompUSA stores that I have been to they have a nice big Mac section. It is just pathetic at Best Buy

[NeilCharter]

It doesn't matter if the Best Buy reps don't want to see Mac Minis yet. The machines have just come in and the poor wee things don't understand why they are better than PCs.

Over the next year, there will be plenty of people going in a buying these babies.

Remember guys Rome wasn't built in a day. It takes time to get products accepted by both the public and the sales staff especially through third party vendors.

The main thing is that it will provide greater access to punters (and a different kind of punter too). Macs need to be disseminated and places like Best Buy need to sell them.

After a while you'll start seeing some software there and maybe mac specific accessories.

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by NeilCharter:
It doesn't matter if the Best Buy reps don't want to see Mac Minis yet. The machines have just come in and the poor wee things don't understand why they are better than PCs.

Over the next year, there will be plenty of people going in a buying these babies.

Remember guys Rome wasn't built in a day. It takes time to get products accepted by both the public and the sales staff especially through third party vendors.

The main thing is that it will provide greater access to punters (and a different kind of punter too). Macs need to be disseminated and places like Best Buy need to sell them.

After a while you'll start seeing some software there and maybe mac specific accessories.

this is not the first time apple has tried to sell macs via best buy.

the net net is best buy "sales" people only know PCs since most of them look like pimple face kids that only know how to blow up things in video games and at best can tell you what is a good video card based on how fast it can boost the frame rate of duke nuke em.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

So is it April Fools yet?

[powerbook867]

when I worked at best buy for a couple of months, our goal wasn't to sell computers, but rather sell service plans!!