[Monique]

I do believe in them.

I use them instead of drugs (which gave me some bad side effects) to treat my blood pressure.

And I know some treatment for epilepsy that works very well instead of having brain surgery which can cause permanent damage.

And there are some effective treatments against menopause which work very well.

What do you think?

[RAILhead]

I think about women.

[- - e r i k - -]

I think you ought to educate yourself.

There is no such thing as alternative medicine, western or eastern medicine. There is simply medicine that works and medicine that doesn't.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Monique

And there are some effective treatments against menopause which work very well.

Prime concern, eh?

[Mastrap]

Ouch.

[Eug Wanker]

Very, very, very few people get surgery for epilepsy.

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

There is simply medicine that works and medicine that doesn't.

Indeed.

P.S. What's really, really annoying is hearing people who are ready and willing to take "natural" remedies, regardless of what's in them, but won't take other medicines because they think their evil. In fact, many people don't even know what they're taking, but think it's OK if they're "natural" remedies.

A prime example is some of the so-called Chinese traditional medicines. Some of the drugs can wreak havoc with other drugs because of their interactions with them and their effects on various organs, and a few drugs imported from Asia have even been known to be laced with salicylates. Salicylates make you feel better (like aspirin can), but can cause stomach bleeding and kidney problems, etc.

[bstone]

I think it's funny how "herbalists" can treat you when they don't even know how to assess blood pressure, ascultate lungs, etc. It's funny.

[smacintush]

I refer to Alternative Medicine as Alternative Treatment…as in: "an alternative to actually treating the problem.

I would love it…LOVE IT if there were such alternatives that actually work but unfortunately, beyond the placebo effect the overwhelming majority of these "medicines" do nothing whatsoever to benefit anyone.

[JoshuaZ]

I just like being well. If something works a well trained doctor would probably know about it.

[Nodnarb]

weed

[loki74]

"Alternative medicine" really--really--is a misnomer. It is no alternative to traditional medicine (ie "western medicine"). It is a supplement to traditional medicine.

The notion that herbs don't have side effects just like other medicinces is completely and utterly 100% ridiculous. The side effects may be less pronounced, but the healing power is also less pronounced. Sometimes, that's all you need. Sometimes its not.

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

P.S. What's really, really annoying is hearing people who are ready and willing to take "natural" remedies, regardless of what's in them, but won't take other medicines because they think their evil. In fact, many people don't even know what they're taking, but think it's OK if they're "natural" remedies.

Hit the nail on the head there, Eug. The amount of people with this attitude is amazing! The worst part is the arrogance it commonly comes with.

My mother is a devoted student of ancient Indian natural medicine, called Ayurveda. As such I've taken herbs and stuff (if you do this, get those plastic container pills, trust me... the taste is... ugh) and they do work--to an extent. But sometimes, I need a Tylenol and no herb is gonna do the trick.

Case and point: Both traditional and natural medicine have certain advantages and they each have their place. Natural medicine is fine as long as you: a) realize that it is not an alternative to western medicine, and b) realize that it doesn't make you better than anyone else.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

P.S. What's really, really annoying is hearing people who are ready and willing to take "natural" remedies, regardless of what's in them, but won't take other medicines because they think their evil. In fact, many people don't even know what they're taking, but think it's OK if they're "natural" remedies.

Oh yes. And they don't want to listen when you explain to them that cyanid is "natural" or that snake venom is "natural".

And don't get me started on the sugar pill industry a.k.a. homeopathy.

[ghporter]

I'm a scientist. I need to know that something has been tested so that its qualities, concentrations and effectiveness are known. Digitalis came from the foxglove plant, but there were problems using foxglove; one leaf could have twice the concentration of another, so dosage was iffy. By discovering the active chemicals and producing them synthetically, chemists made a "maybe it'll help, maybe it'll kill you" remedy into a life saving pharmaceutical.

Once the "alternative" community actually lets go of "faith in nature" and endorses analytical, controlled experiments to find out what it is in plant X that does action Y, I will wholeheartedly support the results. Until then, I'll stick with known quantities.

[Landos Mustache]

Monique is proof that "Alternative medicienes" can have undesirable side effects.

Don't be like Monique, use real drugs

[Rob van dam]

[QUOTE=Eug Wanker]Very, very, very few people get surgery for epilepsy.


Indeed.

P.S. What's really, really annoying is hearing people who are ready and willing to take "natural" remedies, regardless of what's in them, but won't take other medicines because they think their evil. In fact, many people don't even know what they're taking, but think it's OK if they're "natural" remedies.

I dont think it's necessarilly they think the "medicine" that's evil but the notion of the big pharmacuetical company thats evil.Well thats my experience in most cases.

[Rob van dam]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Very, very, very few people get surgery for epilepsy.


Indeed.

P.S. What's really, really annoying is hearing people who are ready and willing to take "natural" remedies, regardless of what's in them, but won't take other medicines because they think their evil. In fact, many people don't even know what they're taking, but think it's OK if they're "natural" remedies.

A prime example is some of the so-called Chinese traditional medicines. Some of the drugs can wreak havoc with other drugs because of their interactions with them and their effects on various organs, and a few drugs imported from Asia have even been known to be laced with salicylates. Salicylates make you feel better (like aspirin can), but can cause stomach bleeding and kidney problems, etc.

I dont think it's necessarilly they think the "medicine" that's evil but the notion of the big pharmacuetical company thats evil.Well thats my experience in most cases.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Monique

I use them instead of drugs (which gave me some bad side effects) to treat my blood pressure.

Stop eating meat (and fish). Within three months your blood pressure problem will start to go away.

I have a long, long history of blood pressure problems in my family. As such, the doctor is always surprised when my blood pressure readout is perfect. Given family history, I should have problems, but I don't - because I'm veggie.

The experts agree:
http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg...3_ENU_HTML.htm

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Stop eating meat (and fish). Within three months your blood pressure problem will start to go away.

I have a long, long history of blood pressure problems in my family. As such, the doctor is always surprised when my blood pressure readout is perfect. Given family history, I should have problems, but I don't - because I'm veggie.

The experts agree:
http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg...3_ENU_HTML.htm

Thank you for the info. but I have a problem eating vegetables, I hate them. I eat less red meat, almost nothing, some chicken. But I take a lot of vitamins and with those my dyastolic pressure came down; and for me this is the one that I want to control; I could easily survive a heart attack and have a good life after but not with a stroke.

-------

This morning I was watching the news and a young man of 16 decided not to go the tradional way when it came to treat his cancer, he preferred to try alternative medecine now the government wants to kidnap him, strap him on a table and force chemeo therapy on him; which he tried earlier in his life and it did not work. At 16, even if he is young it is still his life and his choice; for him being horribly sick on chemeo therapy is no way to live and I have to agree with him.

Also, last night I watch a show on the danger of radiation even in small doses some peole got very sick because of constant x-rays and when you have a c-t scan it is the equivalent of 200 x-rays. And that mamographies do not save lives but self-examination does a much better job.

I am not a fan of traditional medecine because doctors do not take the time to listen to their patients, all they want to do is write a prescription, spend the least amount of time with you. That is what happen with me when I went to see the last doctor, I was trying to explain to him that my pressure was never under 140, and that I was in a very high pressure situation with my job; he preferred not to listen to me and prescribe something that made me dizzy and gave me nauseas.

Again, for simple thing it is better to see a tradional doctor, but for more complicate thing they are not the best person to see; they never take into account the person in front of them just the symptoms.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Stop eating meat (and fish). Within three months your blood pressure problem will start to go away.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The cause of high blood pressure is multifactorial.

Eating meat and fish per se do not cause high blood pressure. In moderation, they're perfectly fine (as with most things). Furthermore, vegetarians are not immune to high blood pressure by any means, and strict vegetarians can sometimes run into nutrional deficiencies unless they are very, very vigilant with what they eat. Nothing wrong with being vigilant, but one can be vigilant with an omnivorous diet too of course.

Originally Posted by Monique

Thank you for the info. but I have a problem eating vegetables, I hate them. I eat less red meat, almost nothing, some chicken. But I take a lot of vitamins and with those my dyastolic pressure came down; and for me this is the one that I want to control; I could easily survive a heart attack and have a good life after but not with a stroke.

-------

This morning I was watching the news and a young man of 16 decided not to go the tradional way when it came to treat his cancer, he preferred to try alternative medecine now the government wants to kidnap him, strap him on a table and force chemeo therapy on him; which he tried earlier in his life and it did not work. At 16, even if he is young it is still his life and his choice; for him being horribly sick on chemeo therapy is no way to live and I have to agree with him.

Also, last night I watch a show on the danger of radiation even in small doses some peole got very sick because of constant x-rays and when you have a c-t scan it is the equivalent of 200 x-rays. And that mamographies do not save lives but self-examination does a much better job.

I am not a fan of traditional medecine because doctors do not take the time to listen to their patients, all they want to do is write a prescription, spend the least amount of time with you. That is what happen with me when I went to see the last doctor, I was trying to explain to him that my pressure was never under 140, and that I was in a very high pressure situation with my job; he preferred not to listen to me and prescribe something that made me dizzy and gave me nauseas.

Again, for simple thing it is better to see a tradional doctor, but for more complicate thing they are not the best person to see; they never take into account the person in front of them just the symptoms.

Your statement above is the epitome of why simply going to an "alternative" dude isn't going to help.

Just the fact that in your first post you don't call alternative remedies "drugs" is pretty telling.

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Monique is proof that "Alternative medicienes" can have undesirable side effects.

[drmbb2]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

P.S. What's really, really annoying is hearing people who are ready and willing to take "natural" remedies, regardless of what's in them, but won't take other medicines because they think their evil. In fact, many people don't even know what they're taking, but think it's OK if they're "natural" remedies.

I recently was talking with a friend, and mentioned how I take a statin drug for high cholesterol. She was almost alarmed - saying that she would never take such an "evil" and "dangerous" drug for her high lipids. Instead, she takes red yeast rice (RYR - actuall an extract of yeast mold grown on red rice). Why, because it's "all natural" and has been in use in chinese culture "for ages".

I suggested she look up the origins of the statin drug lovastatin and rethink her argument.

All natural has taken on this connotation of being not merely harmless, but inherently good. It just ain't necessarily so.

*Lovastatin was first isolated from RYR, and common dietary supplement sources of RYR contain theraputic amounts of lovastatin, hence RYR does indeed lower cholesterol.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I'm a scientist. I need to know that something has been tested so that its qualities, concentrations and effectiveness are known. Digitalis came from the foxglove plant, but there were problems using foxglove; one leaf could have twice the concentration of another, so dosage was iffy. By discovering the active chemicals and producing them synthetically, chemists made a "maybe it'll help, maybe it'll kill you" remedy into a life saving pharmaceutical.

Once the "alternative" community actually lets go of "faith in nature" and endorses analytical, controlled experiments to find out what it is in plant X that does action Y, I will wholeheartedly support the results. Until then, I'll stick with known quantities.

AGREED!

However...

My wife had problems initially with breastfeeding and she contacted the Le Leche League and they recommended Fenugreek Seed. It worked. Plus it made her sweat smell like maple syrup! I understand you can't really overdose on Fenugreek and that it's like any over the counter medicine. It was kind of creepy going into the herbalist store and seeing all of those concoctions they are ripping people off with.

BTW: Monique, what is "medecine"?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Monique

Again, for simple thing it is better to see a tradional doctor, but for more complicate thing they are not the best person to see; they never take into account the person in front of them just the symptoms.

You're kidding. Right?

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Railroader

You're kidding. Right?

No, I am not. I do not trust doctors at all. This is me and that does not mean I would discourage people from seeing one.

For me today's medecine is about profits, control, hurting and humiliating patients, seeing as many as you can within one hour, not listening to people, prescribing drugs instead of listening to the person (which sometimes is all it takes), making drug companies rich, not looking for other solutions for some problems because you do not have the answer and the answer you have might not be in the best interest of the patients.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by drmbb2

I recently was talking with a friend, and mentioned how I take a statin drug for high cholesterol. She was almost alarmed - saying that she would never take such an "evil" and "dangerous" drug for her high lipids. Instead, she takes red yeast rice (RYR - actuall an extract of yeast mold grown on red rice). Why, because it's "all natural" and has been in use in chinese culture "for ages".

I suggested she look up the origins of the statin drug lovastatin and rethink her argument.

All natural has taken on this connotation of being not merely harmless, but inherently good. It just ain't necessarily so.

*Lovastatin was first isolated from RYR, and common dietary supplement sources of RYR contain theraputic amounts of lovastatin, hence RYR does indeed lower cholesterol.

Interesting you mention that.... New York Times (1998): Drug Agency Moves Against an Anti-Cholesterol Product

For more than a year, a California company has put red yeast rice from China into capsules and marketed them as a way to reduce cholesterol. Today, the Food and Drug Administration declared that those capsules, which the company calls dietary supplements, are in fact unapproved drugs.

In announcing its intention to ban the sale of the product, Cholestin, which is used by tens of thousands of consumers, agency officials said the capsules contained the same active ingredient, lovostatin, as the cholesterol-lowering drug Mevacor.

''While red yeast rice has been sold in this country for a long time, what we conclude is that the company has processed red yeast rice in a way to increase the lovostatin levels and, in many cases, create the lovostatin in it,'' said William B. Schultz, the agency's deputy commissioner for policy. ''This is not a dietary supplement. It is a new drug.''

BTW, how does she get it? I believe it is now regulated by the FDA in the US, but I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by Railroader

BTW: Monique, what is "medecine"?

Well, "medecine" is a word in French so it makes sense that's what she used.

Originally Posted by Monique

For me today's medecine is about profits, control, hurting and humiliating patients, seeing as many as you can within one hour, not listening to people, prescribing drugs instead of listening to the person (which sometimes is all it takes), making drug companies rich, not looking for other solutions for some problems because you do not have the answer and the answer you have might not be in the best interest of the patients.

Hmmm...

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Monique

No, I am not. I do not trust doctors at all. This is me and that does not mean I would discourage people from seeing one.

For me today's medecine is about profits, control, hurting and humiliating patients, seeing as many as you can within one hour, not listening to people, prescribing drugs instead of listening to the person (which sometimes is all it takes), making drug companies rich, not looking for other solutions for some problems because you do not have the answer and the answer you have might not be in the best interest of the patients.

Waitaminnit! I thought Canada had the best medical care in TEH UNIVERSES ALL OVER TEH WORLD!!11!

Sounds like you need to find some new doctors.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Waitaminnit! I thought Canada had the best medical care in TEH UNIVERSES ALL OVER TEH WORLD!!11!

Sounds like you need to find some new doctors.

No they are not and they are all the same everywhere they do not listen.

[olePigeon]

Kinda like chiropractic. Bunch of bullsh*t. It may be good to the point of messaging and stretching muscles, but that's about it.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Monique

No they are not and they are all the same everywhere they do not listen.

Huh, well if I'm not a turd in a punch bowl! I'm SOOOOOOOOO glad your All Knwoingness could penetrate down here into the humidity and acrid heat of South Texas to let me know the doctors I've been visiting for lo these many years don't give rat's arse about me.



Once again, you amaze me with your wisdom.

(maybe you should check this out)

[Eug Wanker]

Having been to China many times, and seeing the product descriptions of various alternative medicines, I can tell you that most of the companies sell them simply to make money. They really couldn't care less about the actual health of their customers.

My favourite still is the Chinese black tar for colds.

Instructions for the black tar: Eat black tar, drink plenty of fluids, and get plenty of rest, and the cold should get better within a week.
If it doesn't, go see a doctor.

Instructions by a Western trained physician: Drink plenty of fluids, and get plenty of rest, and the cold should get better within a week.
If it doesn't, go see a doctor.

The bottom line is that drug companies are in it for the money, whether they sell Chinese herbal drugs or Western refined drugs.

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Sounds like you need to find some new doctors.

Bingo.

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Kinda like chiropractic. Bunch of bullsh*t. It may be good to the point of messaging and stretching muscles, but that's about it.

Well, chiropractic treatment has been shown in some studies to be effective for the management for some types of musculoskeletal pain and related problems. Not very useful for much else though.

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by Monique

No they are not and they are all the same everywhere they do not listen.

At least you don't have to mortgage the house for them not too listen. Its unbelieveable at the costs that I got charged when my girls were born.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Monique

No they are not and they are all the same everywhere they do not listen.

We have the same problem here. I don't trust state-provided doctors as far as I can throw them*. Why? Here goes:

- State provided doctor gets paid exactly the same whether you live or die.

- Private doctor doesn't get paid if he loses "customers" because they die on him. Thus it's in his best interest to keep them alive (and fit to work, since if they don't work they can't earn the money to pay him).

Get yourself a private doc Monique.


(* I'm sure there's some good honest genuine caring ones out there, but I simply don't trust the system)

[slugslugslug]

I'm glad quackwatch.org got mentioned in the 2nd reply. That site is awesome, though I'm sure the don't-trust-doctors crowd will always be convinced that cute li'l Stephen Barrett is in the pockets of Big Pharma.

I've certainly had my share of bad experiences with doctors, but I'd still rather go to a doctor who turns out to be wrong but had a reason for his/her opinion than some herbalist who is just plain making sh*t up (even if they're fooling themselves otherwise).

[drmbb2]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Interesting you mention that.... New York Times (1998): Drug Agency Moves Against an Anti-Cholesterol Product

For more than a year, a California company has put red yeast rice from China into capsules and marketed them as a way to reduce cholesterol. Today, the Food and Drug Administration declared that those capsules, which the company calls dietary supplements, are in fact unapproved drugs.

In announcing its intention to ban the sale of the product, Cholestin, which is used by tens of thousands of consumers, agency officials said the capsules contained the same active ingredient, lovostatin, as the cholesterol-lowering drug Mevacor.

''While red yeast rice has been sold in this country for a long time, what we conclude is that the company has processed red yeast rice in a way to increase the lovostatin levels and, in many cases, create the lovostatin in it,'' said William B. Schultz, the agency's deputy commissioner for policy. ''This is not a dietary supplement. It is a new drug.''

BTW, how does she get it? I believe it is now regulated by the FDA in the US, but I'm not sure.

I think the whole issue of RYR - drug or supplement - is still in the courts. Only one supplier has been officially ordered by the courts to stop distribution. Others have apparently stopped including it in their supplements (or at least not mentioning if it's there - the old "we can neither confirm nor deny that"), or are just outright defying the FDA. You can still order it from web stores, usually as an ingrediant in a mixed nutrient supplement product (and, so I gather, dietary supplement distributers are under no legal obligation to fully disclose their ingrediants).

[memento]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I'm a scientist. I need to know that something has been tested so that its qualities, concentrations and effectiveness are known. Digitalis came from the foxglove plant, but there were problems using foxglove; one leaf could have twice the concentration of another, so dosage was iffy. By discovering the active chemicals and producing them synthetically, chemists made a "maybe it'll help, maybe it'll kill you" remedy into a life saving pharmaceutical.

Once the "alternative" community actually lets go of "faith in nature" and endorses analytical, controlled experiments to find out what it is in plant X that does action Y, I will wholeheartedly support the results. Until then, I'll stick with known quantities.

The prevailing voice of reason.

There is promise in investigating "alternative medicines" to find useful compounds and using the scientific process to develop and test these. Aside from that, I'd be very careful and personally won't touch most of that stuff.

Chiropractics is not quackery, but people need to understand it's limitations. Unfortunately sometimes the chiropractors themselves tend to go a little far and add to the perception that it's voodoo stuff.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by Monique

No, I am not. I do not trust doctors at all. This is me and that does not mean I would discourage people from seeing one.

For me today's medecine is about profits, control, hurting and humiliating patients, seeing as many as you can within one hour, not listening to people, prescribing drugs instead of listening to the person (which sometimes is all it takes), making drug companies rich, not looking for other solutions for some problems because you do not have the answer and the answer you have might not be in the best interest of the patients.

Yes, because physicians certainly DON'T have 4 years of undergraduate biology studies, 4 years of intensive medical school training, 3-5 years of post-graduate residency training and Board Certification in their area of speciality.

Go to an herbalist instead who has so much of a better idea of what's going on.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Well, chiropractic treatment has been shown in some studies to be effective for the management for some types of musculoskeletal pain and related problems. Not very useful for much else though.

As a physical theropy, and then only maybe. Chriopractic is a psudoscience and Palmer was a bullsh*t artist. Like the other "magic tonics" of the 19th century, chiropractic offered an be-all end-all cure for everything, simply by adjusting the spinal column.

If you want a good idea of what Chriopractic is, go read The Road to Wellsville.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by bstone

Yes, because physicians certainly DON'T have 4 years of undergraduate biology studies, 4 years of intensive medical school training, 3-5 years of post-graduate residency training and Board Certification in their area of speciality.

Go to an herbalist instead who has so much of a better idea of what's going on.

But, no classes on how to listen to their patient (that happen to be human beings), no classes on considering the patient as human being and examining their lives so to treat them better, no classes on considering alternative treatments that would work instead of dismissing them all together (like the ketogenic diet that can actually cure epilepsy); classes that are opened to consider new diseases like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome; classes about not toturing patients like doing a lombar puncture with no anesthetic; doing an instestinal exam with no anesthetic. When at the beginning they said do no harm I guess they were not serious; but no class on that either.

I do not go to herbalist, I do not need to. But, if I want a caring person to listen to me I will not go to a doctor.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by Monique

But, no classes on how to listen to their patient (that happen to be human beings), no classes on considering the patient as human being and examining their lives so to treat them better, no classes on considering alternative treatments that would work instead of dismissing them all together (like the ketogenic diet that can actually cure epilepsy); classes that are opened to consider new diseases like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome; classes about not toturing patients like doing a lombar puncture with no anesthetic; doing an instestinal exam with no anesthetic. When at the beginning they said do no harm I guess they were not serious; but no class on that either.

I do not go to herbalist, I do not need to. But, if I want a caring person to listen to me I will not go to a doctor.

Clearly, you know nothing about medical school.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Monique

But, no classes on how to listen to their patient (that happen to be human beings), no classes on considering the patient as human being and examining their lives so to treat them better, no classes on considering alternative treatments that would work instead of dismissing them all together (like the ketogenic diet that can actually cure epilepsy); classes that are opened to consider new diseases like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome; classes about not toturing patients like doing a lombar puncture with no anesthetic; doing an instestinal exam with no anesthetic. When at the beginning they said do no harm I guess they were not serious; but no class on that either.

I do not go to herbalist, I do not need to. But, if I want a caring person to listen to me I will not go to a doctor.

I see you've studied medical school curriculum. And you don't make generalizations.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by bstone

Clearly, you know nothing about medical school.

Besides studying disease do they actually learn to listen and consider the people they treat like human beings instead of pin cushions and saying it is ok if I hurt you because I am a God and you a mere mortal.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by Monique

Besides studying disease do they actually learn to listen and consider the people they treat like human beings instead of pin cushions and saying it is ok if I hurt you because I am a God and you a mere mortal.

There is absolutely no point in continuing a discussion with you.

Sincerely,

bstone, a future MD and damn proud of it

[RAILhead]

Can't we ban Monique for idiocy?

[RAILhead]

Oh, and I forgot to post this (my bad):

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Can't we ban Monique for idiocy?

if only

[cjrivera]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Can't we ban Monique for idiocy?

You obviously haven't had a classon how to listen to Monique. You must think it is ok to say this because you are a God and she is a mere mortal.

I guess if she wants caring people to listen to her, she will not come back to the MacNN Lounge.

(hint, hint)

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Can't we ban Monique for idiocy?

But then they'd ban me too. And I can't be having that!

[Monique]

I just check the curriculum at Harvard University and there is a big 4 classes that many students can avoid if they wish to and nothing on doctors patients relationship; nothing on how to listen to patients.

Nowadays doctors are too busy being technician so this is why there is such a huge migration toward alternative medecine, where they can find some caring people.

Prove me wrong exactly, which classes, names, places etc. I bet you cannot do it.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Monique

I just check the curriculum at Harvard University and there is a big 4 classes that many students can avoid if they wish to and nothing on doctors patients relationship; nothing on how to listen to patients.

Nowadays doctors are too busy being technician so this is why there is such a huge migration toward alternative medecine, where they can find some caring people.

Prove me wrong exactly, which classes, names, places etc. I bet you cannot do it.

Competent care-givers and caring care-givers are two completely different things.

I'll take a non-caring competent care-giver over a caring non-competent care-giver any day. SHEW! Say that five times really fastly.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by Monique

I just check the curriculum at Harvard University and there is a big 4 classes that many students can avoid if they wish to and nothing on doctors patients relationship; nothing on how to listen to patients.

Nowadays doctors are too busy being technician so this is why there is such a huge migration toward alternative medecine, where they can find some caring people.

Prove me wrong exactly, which classes, names, places etc. I bet you cannot do it.

Funny that the person who says they do NOT go to doctors suddenly has loads of information on how doctors interact with their patients.

geez....

[Monique]

Originally Posted by bstone

Funny that the person who says they do NOT go to doctors suddenly has loads of information on how doctors interact with their patients.

geez....

Yes I do for the following 2 reasons, the first one again I went to see a doctor in 2004 and he refused to listen to me; all he wanted to do was to give a prescription for my high blood pressure; after studying my case I decided that the best thing for me was to take some vitamins with no side effects instead of some pills with bad side effects.

The other I have a friend that is going through the beginning of her menopause, instead of looking at all the options the lousy human being her doctor is, talked about putting her on hormone replacement for 5 years, how does he know her menopause will last 5 years, and that the symptoms will be the same for 5 years, did he discuss the natural alternatives to pills. No, a pill and then shut up especially if you are a woman.