[Axo1ot1]

I understand the new processors are pretty toasy and pretty power-hungry. Anyone think there's any likelihood that they'll be able to cram one into a portable mac before the end of August?

[threestain]

Very doubtful, as they aren't even going to have them in the desktops until then. Plus Panther comes out then so not really going to happen!

[djjava]

Originally posted by Axo1ot1:
I understand the new processors are pretty toasy and pretty power-hungry. Anyone think there's any likelihood that they'll be able to cram one into a portable mac before the end of August?

another one of these threads.......

i think if people would put on their "businessman" hats, they might realize that to make such a major upgrade to the powerbook line within 6months to a year of the release of teh 17" and 12" PB, as well as the pending 15" ALBook, doesn't make good business sense. Think about it.

[The Placid Casual]

I used to say no. Now I say, "well, Maybe".

The 970 at 1.2 Ghz operates cooler than a 1Ghz G4... Technicallly I think the change is easily doable.

However due to the change needed in FSB, RAM etc etc financialy it doesn't make sense to change yet until the next Powerboook Motherboard revision is due...

But, in reality I guess we just don't know either way.

Peace,

Marc

[killer_735]

Remember Steve's perfectionism too...seems like apple likes to take time to test new tech up the wazoo before implementing it. Their engineers will prolly be working for at least six months before apple will consider releasing a 970 anything.....

An interesting piece of apple lore as it pertains to Steve's perfectionism. A video I saw on the early days of Apple mentioned how Steve delayed the release of one of the first macs by a month or so, because he thought the boot time was too long...by about five seconds. Someone commented that it was just five seconds, and he should unclench a bit. He replied that if ten thousand people owned the system, and started it up once a day...well anyway, he did some math and came up with five lifetimes worth of total time saved if everybody got five seconds off of their boot time. "It's like saving five lives" he said.

I like the guy, but I think he's a little nuts too.

Somebody feel free too modify this story if the figures are off......

[Kenstee]

From MacWhispers:

With the entire Mac world abuzz with (often conflicting) reports of the Apple transition to the IBM PowerPC 970 processor family, we have decided to report a summary of all that we know at this time... not from regurgitated rumors obtained from other web sites, but from our own OEM contacts in the Apple supply pipeline.

We have no software information sources; all information we receive comes from people working in various positions in and around plants in Taiwan that actually supply parts or perform hardware assembly operations on Apple products. So, we have to leave the software speculation to sites such as Think Secret and, it now seems, eWeek.

What we know at this point is as follows:

- The IBM PPC 970 chips are now actually in volume production for only two specific end uses: IBM's own servers, and for Apple Computer.

- The plant contracted for assembly of the new Power Mac is now actually manufacturing production Power Macs with single PPC 970 processors.

- The plant contracted for assembly of the new 15.4-inch Powerbook has just now begun manufacturing production Powerbooks with the PPC 970 processor.

- The new Power Mac has a sister model with a 2-processor motherboard that is not yet in actual production, but that could be put into production at any time.

- The new Power Mac has a new case design with "metallic look plastics," and a front panel "mostly made with the same anodized aluminum surface" as the newest Powerbooks.

- The new Power Mac retains "handles," though not in the same form as the current design.

We have no sources or contacts within Apple Computer, so we cannot state that company's actual release plans for these products. However, we can say that both the new PPC 970 Power Mac and Powerbook will have substantial inventory already produced by the time of the upcoming WWDC keynote.

In closing, we want to address the performance of the new PPC 970 machines, as we do have direct information on this topic, and we consider that information to be highly reliable. Despite the recent flurry of confusing claims published by eWeek and others, we stand by our report that the new Power Mac and Powerbook have overall performance approximately 1.25 to 1.5 times that of a similarly clocked G4 on non-Altivec optimized applications. On Altivec optimized tasks, these machines have as much as 2 to 2.5 times the through performance as a similarly clocked G4. Our understanding is that this performance is occurring using bone-stock OS X 10.2.6 on pre-production single processor PPC 970 machines... an OS with none of the optimization now being rumored as being needed for supporting the PPC 970's performance potential.

[rcarlosnyc]

hehe, if this is true I may sell my 17" and get a 15" when it comes out.

but I'd be stuck with such a small screen. :-(

[djjava]

people have said before, if you believed the rumors sites, we'd have 970s by now.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by rcarlosnyc:
hehe, if this is true I may sell my 17" and get a 15" when it comes out.

but I'd be stuck with such a small screen. :-(

Hardly. The screen on my Pismo is 14.1"... I love it. I'd be stoked with a 15" screen.

I can see where you're coming from, though... going from a 17" to a 15" would be rough, but hey... 15" ain't THAT bad. After all, they didn't even exist until 6 months ago...

[Shaddim]

Amen. It's a crock of hooey. I'll believe it when Apple makes a press release, not a day before.

Originally posted by djjava:
people have said before, if you believed the rumors sites, we'd have 970s by now.

[iWrite]

For the record, I am going on the record as saying that I HIGHLY DOUBT that a 970 is debuting in a Powerbook.

Seriously.

Apple is not going to put 970 in the 15-inchers and leave the 17-inch and 12-inch systems lagging behind. That would sabotage their sales.

So, that means that Apple would upgrade ALL THREE models to 970.

And, that just ain't gonna happen right now.

Besides the fact that it's not very feasible, it would seriously p*ss off the 17-inch Powerbook folks who've just invested in those big systems.

What I think we'll see is this:

-1.25 Ghz in the 17-inch Powerbook
-1.25 Ghz in a NEW 15-inch aluminum system (with Superdrive)
-1Ghz in a NEW 15-inch aluminum system (with Combo drive)
-1Ghz in the 12-inch Powerbook.

Prices:

$3199 - 17-inch 1.25Ghz Superdrive
$2999 - 15-inch 1.25Ghz Superdrive
$2799 - 15-inch 1.25Ghz Combo drive
$2599 - 15-inch 1Ghz Superdrive
$2399 - 15-inch 1Ghz Combo drive
$2199 - 12-inch Superdrive
$1999 - 12-inch Combo drive

All aluminum.

[djjava]

Originally posted by iWrite:
For the record, I am going on the record as saying that I HIGHLY DOUBT that a 970 is debuting in a Powerbook.

Besides the fact that it's not very feasible, it would seriously p*ss off the 17-inch Powerbook folks who've just invested in those big systems.

finally, someone else sees the light!

[Glasspusher]

Originally posted by djjava:
finally, someone else sees the light!

Gee, with this kind of logic, a 970 Powermac would piss off anyone who bought a dual 1.4 this month.

I'm not saying that a 970 PB is a given, but the power requirements for the 970 @ 1.2 GHz is better than for a 1 GHz G4...and we haven't seen a 15" Al Book yet...why so long?

I do not think a 970 PB is beyond the realm of possibility. Wonder if they can use the same or nearly the same mobo in the 15 and 17" models. Having the 17" still G4 would be the only snafu I could see stopping this thing.

[rcarlosnyc]

The PowerBook edu discounts run through September so I don't see an upgrade to the PowerBook line until then. People didn't start getting their hands on 17" PBooks till March-April so a 6 month time frame would be September. If the 15" is going 970, there will be 970s across the PBook line and the iBook will go G4.

[Axo1ot1]

Originally posted by iWrite:
And, that just ain't gonna happen right now.

Besides the fact that it's not very feasible, it would seriously p*ss off the 17-inch Powerbook folks who've just invested in those big systems.

Why ain't it feasible? What are you basing this on? It's been 6 months since they finished designing the 17 and 12 inch models from the ground up. Basically were talking about Apple retrofitting existing computers with new mobos/processors.

Oh and as for the whole not releasing for the sake of 17" owners scenario: that's really stupid. The whole computer industry is always revamping and releasing faster and better models. That's a fact of life. This is supposed to be year of the notebook isn't it?

Originally posted by djjava:
people have said before, if you believed the rumors sites, we'd have 970s by now.

Quick! Everyone start believing the rumor sites!

[Eug]

Originally posted by Glasspusher:
I'm not saying that a 970 PB is a given, but the power requirements for the 970 @ 1.2 GHz is better than for a 1 GHz G4...and we haven't seen a 15" Al Book yet...why so long?

I do not think a 970 PB is beyond the realm of possibility. Wonder if they can use the same or nearly the same mobo in the 15 and 17" models. Having the 17" still G4 would be the only snafu I could see stopping this thing.

I am also convinced that there will be no 970 15" (or 17"), and my reasons are in this thread.

You should note that a 1 GHz 7455 uses significantly less power than a 1.2 GHz PPC 970, and that's not even counting recent power saving tweaks Motorola has made to the 7455.

Mind you, unless Motorola has incorporated these tweaks into the new 1.25 GHz 7455 chips, the power utilization will approach that of the 1.2 GHz PPC 970.

[wanderlust]

Originally posted by iWrite:

Besides the fact that it's not very feasible, it would seriously p*ss off the 17-inch Powerbook folks who've just invested in those big systems.

Right. Apple has never pissed any of their customers off before. Apple's motivation has never been driven primarily by whether or not they're going to piss someone off by releasing a product. Few businesses are.

And even though some folks may be upset, they're not likely to never buy a mac again.

Although I agree fundamentally with you, I might look at the situation another way. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the new 15" did have the 970s. Why would that be a bad thing? I believe sales would do well. It would be a polestar of attention, just as the 12" and 17" laptops have enjoyed the limelight for the past several months. We're starting to see that excitement wain. It would actually be a clever marketing ploy. The 15" is due for a design overhaul. Seeing as chip speed is not the only reason to make a decision on a computer, there is still reason to purchase the other designs, based upon screen size and other functionalities. Besides, the 15" in its current iteration has been around for a long time, relative to mac designs. Then in 4-6 months it would make sense to release the 12" and 17" with the 970 once the current models have run their course. Kind of leapfrogging releases. I've been in marketing for a very long time; this scenario is not beyond reason.

[BrunoBruin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: better to have one 970 laptop than none. PowerBook sales are going to suffer when new chips make their way into the towers.

UNLESS the next PowerBook ships with the 7457 G4; then at least we can guess that the PowerBooks will stay with the G4, for the time being. Barring that...well, how many folks here would shell out $3,299 for a 17-inch PowerBook with a G4 when there's a 970 tower sitting on the next display stand? I think the 17 is the model that's going to take the worst beating in this transition, and it's going to happen whether or not there's a 970 in the 15-inch.

[ja]

Rumors keep me entertained
So what if they turn out not to be true

anyway

I think the 17 is the model that's going to take the worst beating in this transition

Beautiful as it is the 17 will take a beating from an alum 15in
I am using a second generation 15 now and without an absolutely compelling reason I would probably go with this size again

However one compelling scenario would be if the 17 was the only one bumped up to a 970 when the new 15 is introduced

[BrunoBruin]

The problem with the 17 is that it's the one line that really cries out for the best specs Apple can possibly give it. Apple promotes it as a desktop replacement and therefore invites comparisons to the towers.

I'm sure Apple has done all sorts of projections and is trying to guess what product/processor matrix will give them the best sales during this transition. What if that matrix said that sales of a 970 15-inch would hurt sales of the 17, but 15-inch sales would more than offset any losses? For example, I'm sure Apple would prefer to sell 125,000 15s and 20,000 17s next quarter rather than 60,000 and 30,000.

[beefstu01]

Originally posted by rcarlosnyc:
The PowerBook edu discounts run through September so I don't see an upgrade to the PowerBook line until then. People didn't start getting their hands on 17" PBooks till March-April so a 6 month time frame would be September. If the 15" is going 970, there will be 970s across the PBook line and the iBook will go G4.

You bring up an interesting point though. I myself am not expecting the PowerBooks to go 970 at the WWDC, but think of this for a second. The last revision of the iBooks had us see nothing really. All they recieved were a little speed bump, but no FireWire 800, no AirPort Extreme, etc..., where all the products in the Apple lineup were recieving such goodies. These extras would require a complete motherboard redesigning, or as close to one as you could get, and why redesign your motherboard if you are about to add one more thing which requires a redesign, such as a processor? I know I'm neglecting the 14"er, but for all intents and purposes, the 12" iBook is the exact same as the 12" AlBook in a form factor sense. Well, if Apple was planning to release the 970 in the PowerBooks, they'd probably do it across the line (12", 15" and 17"), all of which require motherboard redesignings. The 15"er was due for one for a while, Apple would redesign the 12" and 17" 'Books motherboards, and drop the current 12" PBook mobo into the iBook, thus giving the iBook all the new goodies and a G4, while giving the PBooks a nice, fast processor wrapped in what is essentially a large heat sink (I haven't used the AlBooks so I'm just speculating).

All of this is strictly hypothetical, as I said, I'm not really expecting the 970 in the PowerBooks in the near near future. But, I must point out that this has been called by Mr. Jobs the "Year of the Laptop." It started out decently with the 12" and the 17" debut, but after that, it sucked. Now June/July isn't the end of the year, but it's friggin half way through, and the "Year of the Laptop" sota needs something to get to get this to be "THE" year.

So in my humble opinion (for the half cent that it isn't worth), I think that we'll see the PB get the 970 pretty soon, maybe August. After all, Apple may show developers that the processor exists at the WWDC, and give them a month or two to develop, then move their hardware over to the 970. But hey, this is Apple! Always be prepared to be surprised!

[daniel999]

According to this website , 15" PB with PPC970 has begun manufacturing... Is it a good thing or bad thing? Coz I just ordered my 12" PB

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by daniel999:
According to this website , 15" PB with PPC970 has begun manufacturing... Is it a good thing or bad thing? Coz I just ordered my 12" PB

The question is, to quote Clint, "do you feel lucky?"

To me, you are being very brave ordering this close to WWDC, especially when the 12" has been out for 6 months, the traditional revision point, and a new chip is being introduced...

If I were in your shoes, I would try to wait...

However, either way, you get a kick ass machine.

[daniel999]

I am a totally newbi in Mac... This is the first ever Mac I get. I just see the price drop and I order it straight away...sign...

[Eug]

Originally posted by daniel999:
I am a totally newbi in Mac... This is the first ever Mac I get. I just see the price drop and I order it straight away...sign...

I agree, cancel if you can cancel, and if you can wait a while. I HIGHLY doubt the new PBs will include a 970, but they are likely be updated with faster G4, probably before the end of July.

[Riemann Zeta]

Quote:

"- The plant contracted for assembly of the new 15.4-inch Powerbook has just now begun manufacturing production Powerbooks with the PPC 970 processor."

From a rumor site...

I call bullshit. There is no way that Apple would put a "G5" into the 15" 'book and leave the 17" (the flagship product) high and dry with a G4.

[proux]

Why not release the 15'' with 970 right now and update the 17'' in a couple of months when it is ready? Then 4/6 months after you update the whole line in sync. It would just be a processor upgrade anyway. Sure sales of the 17'' would suffer but they could discount it as they do to clear the channels of inventory.

They kept the old case for the 15'' for months after the alu case of the 12'' and 17''.

[daniel999]

How about they release 15" and 17" with 970 together?

[PrettyBoyClone]

Originally posted by Riemann Zeta:
Quote:

"- The plant contracted for assembly of the new 15.4-inch Powerbook has just now begun manufacturing production Powerbooks with the PPC 970 processor."

From a rumor site...

I call bullshit. There is no way that Apple would put a "G5" into the 15" 'book and leave the 17" (the flagship product) high and dry with a G4.

MacWhispers has their intel from one source, some manufacturer in asia. If I remember it correctly, Apple uses different manufacures for the different models in their lineup. -So because MacWhispers hears stuff about the 15", this doesn't mean that the 17" remains unchanged.

Points in favor of PowerBook G5 announcement at WWDC:
-Apple has 40% of their sales from portables. When everybody knows a new generation with twice the performance is x months away, this could halt powerbook sales. This is way too expensive, so Apple needs to provide a portable with a 970 inside.
-The 970 could work in a powerbook, it uses only a reasonal abount of watts.
-15" needs an update real soon.

Points against:
-The new architecture could be too demanding to engineer down to laptop scale at the moment
-Usually portable technology is lagging behind desktops for around a year. (but the world is changing, and so are the rules)

Fact: 64 bit will come to the powerbooks (..but when..)
Fact: Portables are getting more important every day.
Fact: Apple needs switchers. Cool, top of the line portables are a driving factor for many pro switchers. How does Apple keep the powerbooks irrisistable ?

[silverghost]

As long as the new machines (powerbook & powermacs) come with a 970 or anything faster than what motorola's got i'll be happy.

I've got a TiSD, now the only thing Im waiting for is a 970 tower to replace the quicksilver I sold in november.


aloha

[Karim]

Last year at WWDC, Rubinstein the head of hardware development of Apple said that hardware introductions have NOT been done at WWDC in the past and won't be this time. (New products not speedbumps)

Now that Macworld NYC is history It seems likely they will start to use the WWDC for hardware introductions since it is midway through the year from Macworld SF.

Plus, they've changed the venue from San Jose to the Moscone in SF which is much higher profile.

So something is coming. G5's for desktops and ? for laptops.